I suppose. I don't have a problem with having situational gear, but having to change your gear for every single skill or spell you used just seemed kinda crazy. I expect a lot of people liked the micro-management behind it but it just always bothered me. /shrug
But again... You *don't* have to do it.
Not sure where this impression came from that it's mandatory to swap gear in FFXI and that SE has to do away with it. SE didn't introduce the idea... the players did. The game permits it, yes, but it's not "forced by design". Like many other things in the game (like Ninjas tanking...), it's something the players figured out.
If swapping out gear is something you don't like doing... then just don't do it. I can't understand why some people perceive it as this big problem? Perhaps it falls under the ever-present mindset of "how you're supposed to play the game", which is - again - a player-derived thing.
I just don't get it... people trap themselves into these routines that are entirely optional, that no one is putting a gun to their head to do... and then say that SE needs to do something about it.
Well actually once the players decide it's the way you're meant to do it then actually yes you do more or less have to do it. You're forced to do it if you want to be accepted into parties regularly. In exactly the same way everyone was at one point expected to have /NIN, if they didn't then party invites were scarce.
This reminds me of the grouping debates in solo-oriented games, just because you have an option to do something it isn't necessarily viable. If the devs put in a mechanic (or an overlooked bug) that allows players to perform better then everyone will be expected to use it. There isn't really any option at all.
"Press: Going off of that, is it going to keep the same format currently, where all servers are worldwide, or will it be split into territories?
SE: Yes, our current plans are to have the same type of setup as Final Fantasy XI, where there are worldwide servers and cross-platform and cross-region servers. We haven't discounted the possibility of having region-based servers. It all depends on, when we have our beta test, we will find out what the players want and how things are going and look at the balance there. For example, in FFXI right now, players can choose any servers they want from anywhere in the world and we're seeing that a lot of certain players, because they want to play with people in the same region, are now going on to one server. If you look at the Bahamut server, it's packed with people from the same region because they want to play that. We want to look for a good balance in that sense."
"Press: Going off of that, is it going to keep the same format currently, where all servers are worldwide, or will it be split into territories?
SE: Yes, our current plans are to have the same type of setup as Final Fantasy XI, where there are worldwide servers and cross-platform and cross-region servers. We haven't discounted the possibility of having region-based servers. It all depends on, when we have our beta test, we will find out what the players want and how things are going and look at the balance there. For example, in FFXI right now, players can choose any servers they want from anywhere in the world and we're seeing that a lot of certain players, because they want to play with people in the same region, are now going on to one server. If you look at the Bahamut server, it's packed with people from the same region because they want to play that. We want to look for a good balance in that sense."
all together again.
I think if SE had region recommended world servers that would be great. Why restrict players? I think it a great way to go with FF XIV mmo.
I liked the mixed servers myself, been a long time since I played but when I was in a heavly asian group sure I didnt have anyone to talk too unless I translated, but it was a no nonsence high xp time for all. I look back on my nights playing a brd/wm in those groups with some fondness.
I will say the loss of a sub-job system is the worst news ever. period.
I had hoped that, in FF14, you weapon would determine your main job and your armor, your sub,job....so some other similar paradim...but I guess that could get nuts on your inventory lol
I agree totally,i was assuming a similar idea.IMO FFXIV as confusing as some ideas sound,is really a throwback to the exact same design as most of the other games on the market,did we really need another clone ?This of course is not saying FFXIV is a bad game,it still looks to have some good qualities,i am just saying WHY take out some of the BEST ideas ever shown in a MMORPG,just to cater to more subs is my guess?
The subclass design is just one of the ideas that made FFXI leaps and bound more fun and offered a lot more versatility than other games.All Square needed to do was shore it up,so a few of the common complaints were removed.Example the MUST need for /nin ect ect.Do not EVER make another TOAU zone again where people get more XP and eliminates ALL the old zones,that was a brutal mistake.That is all Squareneeded to do was keep the great core mechanics but fix the mistakes and we would have again a NICHE game that stil lcan be played by anyone from Wow/EQ or any other game,it really was not THAT much different.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I will say the loss of a sub-job system is the worst news ever. period.
I had hoped that, in FF14, you weapon would determine your main job and your armor, your sub,job....so some other similar paradim...but I guess that could get nuts on your inventory lol
I agree totally,i was assuming a similar idea.IMO FFXIV as confusing as some ideas sound,is really a throwback to the exact same design as most of the other games on the market,did we really need another clone ?This of course is not saying FFXIV is a bad game,it still looks to have some good qualities,i am just saying WHY take out some of the BEST ideas ever shown in a MMORPG,just to cater to more subs is my guess?
The subclass design is just one of the ideas that made FFXI leaps and bound more fun and offered a lot more versatility than other games.All Square needed to do was shore it up,so a few of the common complaints were removed.Example the MUST need for /nin ect ect.Do not EVER make another TOAU zone again where people get more XP and eliminates ALL the old zones,that was a brutal mistake.That is all Squareneeded to do was keep the great core mechanics but fix the mistakes and we would have again a NICHE game that stil lcan be played by anyone from Wow/EQ or any other game,it really was not THAT much different.
What the hell are you two talking about? The subjob system hasn't gone anywhere, as a matter of fact it came back, better than ever.
This is the most irritating thing ever: baseless criticism. Goddamnit.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I suppose. I don't have a problem with having situational gear, but having to change your gear for every single skill or spell you used just seemed kinda crazy. I expect a lot of people liked the micro-management behind it but it just always bothered me. /shrug
But again... You *don't* have to do it.
Not sure where this impression came from that it's mandatory to swap gear in FFXI and that SE has to do away with it. SE didn't introduce the idea... the players did. The game permits it, yes, but it's not "forced by design". Like many other things in the game (like Ninjas tanking...), it's something the players figured out.
If swapping out gear is something you don't like doing... then just don't do it. I can't understand why some people perceive it as this big problem? Perhaps it falls under the ever-present mindset of "how you're supposed to play the game", which is - again - a player-derived thing.
I just don't get it... people trap themselves into these routines that are entirely optional, that no one is putting a gun to their head to do... and then say that SE needs to do something about it.
Well actually once the players decide it's the way you're meant to do it then actually yes you do more or less have to do it. You're forced to do it if you want to be accepted into parties regularly. In exactly the same way everyone was at one point expected to have /NIN, if they didn't then party invites were scarce.
No, you don't. If you feel obligated to play the way others tell you to, then I don't know what to tell you. That's your prerogative, I suppose.
I've been in *plenty* of parties with *plenty* of people who didn't swap gear at all... no one said a word. Maybe a suggestion was given here and there. "Hey you ever tried swapping in "such and such" for that weapon skill? Should give it a try, gives a nice boost" - something like that. But no one bitched at them or complained that they weren't.
For me, I play the way I want to. That said... My Ninja is level 14, and it will stay there, because I hate the job. It's not fun, I don't enjoy it, so I'm not leveling it. It has not hindered me from playing the game, and I'm playing since the game's NA PC release. Party invites have never been any more or less regardless of what job I was playing, or whether I was subbing NIN. I even got pretty regular invites as DRG, before they fixed 2-handed weapons, and they were still "lolDRG". Didn't phase me... I enjoyed the job, so I played it.
If you're tanking then, sure, people might expect you - in some situations - to have /NIN. For myself, I haven't leveled a tanking job yet, though PLD is next on my list, and I have no intention for leveling NIN for that either - despite being told "you have to" by several people - because I've seen it proven time and again that it's not necessary.
Do some people insist on having /NIN? Sure. Some people insist you have the best gear. Some people insist you have a specific job combo that doesn't involve /NIN... Regardless, I've played and enjoyed myself for t he most part (outside of dealing with obnoxious people along the way).
This reminds me of the grouping debates in solo-oriented games, just because you have an option to do something it isn't necessarily viable. If the devs put in a mechanic (or an overlooked bug) that allows players to perform better then everyone will be expected to use it. There isn't really any option at all.
Yes... there is an option. Not everyone plays with the same expectations as you, or anyone else. Not everyone does what "everyone else says they're supposed to do". Do many people do it? Yes... and I personally call them lemmings... especially when they bitch and gripe about it, but do it anyway, for fear of being told they "don't know how to play".
I put in 40 hours a week at a job where I have to do what I'm told... but I'm paid to. I'm not going to come home to be told how to play a game that I'm paying for. Sorry. Ain't happening. I know how to play the game. I understand the mechanics to know what will work and what won't, and I dont' gimp myself to where I'm dragging a party down. That's how I choose to play. But I will nto go out of my way to play the game the way someone else says I should. And with that mindset, I've done just fine.
So... again... No, you don't have to swap gear. You don't have to have /NIN subbed, except in certain circumstances. You don't have to play the way everyone else tells you to.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I will say the loss of a sub-job system is the worst news ever. period.
I had hoped that, in FF14, you weapon would determine your main job and your armor, your sub,job....so some other similar paradim...but I guess that could get nuts on your inventory lol
I agree totally,i was assuming a similar idea.IMO FFXIV as confusing as some ideas sound,is really a throwback to the exact same design as most of the other games on the market,did we really need another clone ?This of course is not saying FFXIV is a bad game,it still looks to have some good qualities,i am just saying WHY take out some of the BEST ideas ever shown in a MMORPG,just to cater to more subs is my guess?
The subclass design is just one of the ideas that made FFXI leaps and bound more fun and offered a lot more versatility than other games.All Square needed to do was shore it up,so a few of the common complaints were removed.Example the MUST need for /nin ect ect.Do not EVER make another TOAU zone again where people get more XP and eliminates ALL the old zones,that was a brutal mistake.That is all Squareneeded to do was keep the great core mechanics but fix the mistakes and we would have again a NICHE game that stil lcan be played by anyone from Wow/EQ or any other game,it really was not THAT much different.
What the hell are you two talking about? The subjob system hasn't gone anywhere, as a matter of fact it came back, better than ever.
This is the most irritating thing ever: baseless criticism. Goddamnit.
Well, for one... It's feasible that spankybus isn't aware of it. For Wizardry... Meh... Again... It's Wizardry who will - and has, numerous times - leveled criticism at something he demonstrably knew nothing about. He's been doing that since the game was announced.
People often like to rattle off about what they think they know having not done an ounce of work to actually research it first. I think the thinking is, "I haven't been told that it has 'such and such', therefor it doesn't have it", rather than "I wonder if it has 'such and such', or anything similar... Let me go see"
That said, I'm assuming you're referring to the so-called "sub weapon" system, or where you can tap into skills from other classes while playing a different one? If so, then yeah... it is actually more versatile than XI's subjobs.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I call BS on this statement of "you don't have to its only an option". Frankly most FF players are already accustomed to the assumption that seems "are a given". Need examples? Your RDM may not have to sub BLM in dynamis but frankly what use are they subbing anything else with the exception of DRK in rare instances? DRG, DRK, WAR doesn't have to sub SAM in a merit party but what happens when they don't? I can bet ya 9 out of 10 times a *sigh* goes up. MMorpgs are about optimization of party and solo mechanics. If we do events that require us to have a certain set of jobs ready, we'd better have them or expect to be excluded. And yea we sometimes make exceptions for friends or beginners but lets take this seriously now, are we gonna sit here and say "You can be a drg and not have SAM, RDM/WHM as a sub and still be treated equally and fairly with the other drg?".
Fact is there is a certain degree to which we "tolerate" things we don't like. Gear swapping is debated. Which subs to have ready is also debateably pending on whether your the primary, backup for a position. Its true its your perogative as to how you wish to play but its also true that its the other players perogative on whether they should want you or not for an event. You can sit there and say "yea my Drg/War does fine so thxbye" and I can sit here and say "np lets not invite you to a party" or "let's boot you from the party". You can say mmorpgs allow freedom on how we play a game but that's about as false of an illusion if there is any. That's a sandbox mmorpg, this is FF11 and FF14; players want things done in a certain way. I like my RDM's subbing blm in Dyna, I like my 2-hander DD's subbing SAM in most situations you can imagine, I like my BLM's subbing RDM, the list goes on. Play the game you wish to play but having said that it doesn't mean the population base is going to be kinder to you. That's how the FF crowd is often.
Gonna have to side with Alberel and sdeleon on this. Players gravitate towards the most effective and efficient strategies. The "option" to intentionally gimp yourself isn't much of an option at all. What players are asking here is not so much "I do not want to gear swap", but rather "I do not want gear swapping to be possible." There are a number of reasons why someone might feel that way, and none of those reasons are invalided by responding with "then you should just stop doing it."
Having to choose between two pieces of equipment that impart different benefits is an interesting choice; it is completely reasonable to not want to be allowed to remove that choice by getting full benefit from both pieces. And in an MMO, it's reasonable to not want others to have that choice either. There's the fact that you want to be effective as everyone else so that you can get into parties, but there's more to it than that. It feels wrong to know that other players can do "better" at the game in a way that you don't think they should be able to. This feeling can be enough to drive someone away from a game that they would have enjoyed otherwise, so it's good for developers to listen to these complaints.
They need to make it a new game just because, unless ffxi changed from when i played it, leveling is a huge task and like most MMO's if your competitive it sucks STARTING the game years behind everyone else. I really enjoyed ffxi although I only leveled into the mid 40s. The experience was great and took a lot of time. One of the big things i find missing in your WoW style mmos is the absense of groups while leveling except for the 'elite' quests. I really honestly truthfully sincerly enjoyed the group leveling of EQ and FFXI. You make friends all along the way because you group with them every day. Its hard to level up in a game that takes solid group work from level 5 on and be a douche bag or suck at your class, by the time your level 30 nobody will group with you because you are A) annoying suck. One of the biggest complaints of WoW was the 'maturity'. Consider a group heavy leveling system as a filter, immature people or those who try to free ride on 40 man raids wont be able to get anywhere because they will be weeded out early. FFXI was one of these games where the process of leveling, although tideous is enjoyable because you are in constant interaction with people, its essentially like grinding heroic dungeons in wow. which is why in the first time in my mmo career i didnt max level a character but i still felt like i played the game and enjoyed it.
I have a hard time beliving the game will be watered down because SE is still an Eastern company and will still try to appeal to both markets. In doing so they can profit off the Eastern mmo market which typically is more grind intensive as well as the western market that wants that in a game that isnt some cruddy korean rush job mmo.
Lastly if they do away with sub jobs or skill chains im going to freak out. The subjob system was awesome, and i mean awesome because for people like myself who enjoy their main characters it allowed the creation of alts that retained some of the main characters benefits. If you really liked your paladin but also wanted to play a ninja, well shit you could be a pld/ninja or a ninja/pld. In my case i really enjoyed the white mage class but i also wanted to try to red mage, so i was a whm/rdm and it worked great.
I can't believe you said that this game takes place in the same world...do you know enough about the FFXI Lore vs. the FFXIV lore to say this?
FFXI takes place in the world of Vana'diel
FFXIV takes place in the world of E'orzea
FFXI uses 5 core racess(Humans, Elvaan, Galka, Mithra, and Tarutaru)
FFXIV uses 5 similar races that, while look cosmetically similar, are slightly different and named differently(I.e. Mithra became Mi'qote)
FFXIV also has completely different game mechanics
Note that all this info is available from the main website for XIV. To say that you're not really qualified to write an article comparing 2 games you clearly don't know very much about other than that they are both made by the same company and share a title would be an understatement.
Lastly if they do away with sub jobs or skill chains im going to freak out. The subjob system was awesome, and i mean awesome because for people like myself who enjoy their main characters it allowed the creation of alts that retained some of the main characters benefits. If you really liked your paladin but also wanted to play a ninja, well shit you could be a pld/ninja or a ninja/pld. In my case i really enjoyed the white mage class but i also wanted to try to red mage, so i was a whm/rdm and it worked great.
The Famitsu article described in this post on FFXIVCore explains something called Battle Regimen, which seems to be a replacement for skillchains. You'll be able to combine even basic attacks into joint attacks that have an added effect.
As for subjobs, they're gone. But you will have the ability to switch jobs in between battles without returning to town and you will be able to use the abilities from other jobs to some extent. So it's not the same, but not a complete change either.
If you read up on the mechanics of the new system they are putting in place, it actually offers a far greater degree of customization than the sub job system did, without the downsides (like needing specific accepted job combos to even think about getting party invites). You could say it basically expands the mechanics for Blue Mage from FFXI across every job and adds to them (which is a good thing, because that was by far the most customizable class on it's own).
To those worried that the game will be "WoW with moogles":
Your concerns are not justified. That's not the way SE, or really any Asian MMO developer, does things. It's frigging SE, they have their own ideas and their work can stand on it's own without copying others. If they choose to make it more casual-friendly, it would be a wise move - FFXI was far too inaccessible for most players. That doesn't create your false dichotomy of FFXI vs WoW.
To FFXI vets concerned that the game will not be FFXI with better graphics:
SE aims to do something different with every game they make; they have no reason to make the same game twice. You'll still have your very own Final Fantasy MMO if you absolutely can't live with the different mechanics of FFXIV.
To people concerned that FFXIV will be FFXI with better graphics:
I've always been of mind to play FF XI if it weren't for Playonline...if they ever realized how many more subs they could get from the PC market by ditching that crap and conforming the UI to be more functional on a PC then I'd be there subbing in a heartbeat!
If you read up on the mechanics of the new system they are putting in place, it actually offers a far greater degree of customization than the sub job system did, without the downsides (like needing specific accepted job combos to even think about getting party invites)
Oh I think it's way too soon to be saying something like that...
While lots of people have great faith in S-E, there is still room for them to mess this up. We don't even know what all the jobs are yet; it's premature to say that there will not be required job combos (or whatever you want to call the FFXIV equivalent). It is possible, for example, that Thaumaturge's Siphon TP spell will be so powerful that all DPS characters will be basically required to keep it Thaumaturge levelled or miss out on parties. Or maybe every non-tank will be required to keep Archer levelled to make use of Chameleon for reducing Enmity. It is hard enough to balance a dozen (or more) classes; it's much harder to balance them while also allowing people to mix-and-match. Add in the fact that a.) there are several non-combat-oriended classes, b.) most fights will (supposedly) be against whole parties of mobs, and c.) MP does not regen... FFXIV is doing a lot of things differently than other MMOs and so they can't really look to MMOs that have done these things before for guidance. The first people to try something new almost never get it perfectly right the first time. I am cautiously optimistic for now, but it is practically a given that some builds will emerge as the most powerful and most desired for groups.
I've always been of mind to play FF XI if it weren't for Playonline...if they ever realized how many more subs they could get from the PC market by ditching that crap and conforming the UI to be more functional on a PC then I'd be there subbing in a heartbeat!
If this new version of Final Fantasy was to convince ME I should buy it then first I'd need to be convinced that it was NOTHING like FF XI
FFXI is shocking, I just dont think that grinding for years in one area is acceptable anymore. The people that stay with FFXI are only staying because they have sold a portion of their life to it.
What do you think is the biggest sore spot amongst veteran players in regards to FFXVI right now?
Ganen:
The possible "easiness" of the game from what I've heard about it. If there are private instances, that will be a killer for a bunch of people. One of the best things about eleven was being able to go to a zone, see other people there, fight for spots, and fight for mobs. If the game is all instances and privatized, the game will feel less like an MMO and more like a single player game with a chat box.
MMORPG.com:
What do you feel FFXIV has to do right in order to be a good successor for FFXI?
Ganen:
Port a lot of the qualities off of eleven and don't try to change the formula too much. If they just improve upon the rest and don't make the game too watered down, it will be successful.
"
1.- I'm one of those vets that think that heavy instancing is a MMO killer, some instancing is acceptable as a secondary option, if there's too many players grinding, fighting and camping, then yeah instances would be a reasonable solution, but it's still a bad excuse for better coding, there's a MMO out there that has pretty fast respawn of npcs and quest items don't need respawn as they never disappear after a player collects it.
2.- FFXI had some very good features that would transfer well to XIV, the grinding I liked to an extent, I agree it was long and painful, but there was so much variety that it didn't get boring or tedious. I hope that in this obvious westernized version (even if they deny is not that), they don't start leaning heavily towards questing as the main way to level, but instead trying to strike a balance between grinding and questing so players can do either one or both without feeling one is slower than the other.
I call BS on this statement of "you don't have to its only an option". Frankly most FF players are already accustomed to the assumption that seems "are a given". Need examples? Your RDM may not have to sub BLM in dynamis but frankly what use are they subbing anything else with the exception of DRK in rare instances? DRG, DRK, WAR doesn't have to sub SAM in a merit party but what happens when they don't? I can bet ya 9 out of 10 times a *sigh* goes up. MMorpgs are about optimization of party and solo mechanics. If we do events that require us to have a certain set of jobs ready, we'd better have them or expect to be excluded. And yea we sometimes make exceptions for friends or beginners but lets take this seriously now, are we gonna sit here and say "You can be a drg and not have SAM, RDM/WHM as a sub and still be treated equally and fairly with the other drg?".
Fact is there is a certain degree to which we "tolerate" things we don't like. Gear swapping is debated. Which subs to have ready is also debateably pending on whether your the primary, backup for a position. Its true its your perogative as to how you wish to play but its also true that its the other players perogative on whether they should want you or not for an event. You can sit there and say "yea my Drg/War does fine so thxbye" and I can sit here and say "np lets not invite you to a party" or "let's boot you from the party". You can say mmorpgs allow freedom on how we play a game but that's about as false of an illusion if there is any. That's a sandbox mmorpg, this is FF11 and FF14; players want things done in a certain way. I like my RDM's subbing blm in Dyna, I like my 2-hander DD's subbing SAM in most situations you can imagine, I like my BLM's subbing RDM, the list goes on. Play the game you wish to play but having said that it doesn't mean the population base is going to be kinder to you. That's how the FF crowd is often.
And I maintain that in 7+ years playing the game, not always doing "what I was expected to, because I was expected to", not having /nin subbed because "I was expected to", and so on... that I have done completely fine. As have others I've known. Have comments been made? Sure. Has it hindered me from playing? No.
You can disagree on principle of whether it's better or worse to follow the trends... Fine. That's debatable.
But in my first-hand experience, it is not at all necessary and does not necessarily negatively impact the game experience.
It's ironic that you mention DRG/WAR in your example... because I got my DRG to 65 as DRG/WAR before deciding to switch over to /SAM just for variety. And I did just fine, and held my own. I was asked why I didn't have other jobs subbed, and my answer was "Because I enjoy this combo". Again... I did fine. It didn't hold me back from playing and leveling and getting DRG to 75.
I've been told I need /NIN if I want to get into parties into the 70s on Monk. I was told "no one will invite you to parties as MNK/SAM." Guess what? My NIN is still 14, my Monk is 73. I'm getting parties. No problems.
Not everyone sticks to guides and templates as though they were etched in stone, except perhaps for those who need them to succeed in the game, or feel as though they're "not playing the right way" if they don't, or feel they "need to be as efficient as possible at all times". A RL friend of mine falls into the latter category, and he would regularly tell me that I was playing wrong since I didn't follow the guides as he did. I, fortunately, dont' fit into any of those categories.
I've seen plenty of times people take unorthodox setups and make them work in situations people insisted they wouldn't. They worked because the person organizing it understood the jobs and the game mechanics enough to concoct a stratey that worked.
As I said before.. you don't *have* to play the way others "expect" you to. You *choose* to. And to anyone who chooses to play that way... hey... if you're enjoying the game, more power to you.
In the end we can agree to disagree. I have my playstyle, you have yours. That the game has allowed us each to enjoy it in our own way is win-win as far as I'm concerned. I just take issue with the original notion that swapping gear is somehow some "problem" that SE has to "eliminate", when it's optional, and SE didn't mandate it in the first place.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
Well actually once the players decide it's the way you're meant to do it then actually yes you do more or less have to do it. You're forced to do it if you want to be accepted into parties regularly. In exactly the same way everyone was at one point expected to have /NIN, if they didn't then party invites were scarce.
This reminds me of the grouping debates in solo-oriented games, just because you have an option to do something it isn't necessarily viable. If the devs put in a mechanic (or an overlooked bug) that allows players to perform better then everyone will be expected to use it. There isn't really any option at all.
I just hope they keep the asians off our servers. I didn't like the mix of both on the same server, and the translating was annoying.
from http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=18313
"Press: Going off of that, is it going to keep the same format currently, where all servers are worldwide, or will it be split into territories?
SE: Yes, our current plans are to have the same type of setup as Final Fantasy XI, where there are worldwide servers and cross-platform and cross-region servers. We haven't discounted the possibility of having region-based servers. It all depends on, when we have our beta test, we will find out what the players want and how things are going and look at the balance there. For example, in FFXI right now, players can choose any servers they want from anywhere in the world and we're seeing that a lot of certain players, because they want to play with people in the same region, are now going on to one server. If you look at the Bahamut server, it's packed with people from the same region because they want to play that. We want to look for a good balance in that sense."
all together again.
I think if SE had region recommended world servers that would be great. Why restrict players? I think it a great way to go with FF XIV mmo.
I liked the mixed servers myself, been a long time since I played but when I was in a heavly asian group sure I didnt have anyone to talk too unless I translated, but it was a no nonsence high xp time for all. I look back on my nights playing a brd/wm in those groups with some fondness.
www.gofigureitout.ca
I agree totally,i was assuming a similar idea.IMO FFXIV as confusing as some ideas sound,is really a throwback to the exact same design as most of the other games on the market,did we really need another clone ?This of course is not saying FFXIV is a bad game,it still looks to have some good qualities,i am just saying WHY take out some of the BEST ideas ever shown in a MMORPG,just to cater to more subs is my guess?
The subclass design is just one of the ideas that made FFXI leaps and bound more fun and offered a lot more versatility than other games.All Square needed to do was shore it up,so a few of the common complaints were removed.Example the MUST need for /nin ect ect.Do not EVER make another TOAU zone again where people get more XP and eliminates ALL the old zones,that was a brutal mistake.That is all Squareneeded to do was keep the great core mechanics but fix the mistakes and we would have again a NICHE game that stil lcan be played by anyone from Wow/EQ or any other game,it really was not THAT much different.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What the hell are you two talking about? The subjob system hasn't gone anywhere, as a matter of fact it came back, better than ever.
This is the most irritating thing ever: baseless criticism. Goddamnit.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well, for one... It's feasible that spankybus isn't aware of it. For Wizardry... Meh... Again... It's Wizardry who will - and has, numerous times - leveled criticism at something he demonstrably knew nothing about. He's been doing that since the game was announced.
People often like to rattle off about what they think they know having not done an ounce of work to actually research it first. I think the thinking is, "I haven't been told that it has 'such and such', therefor it doesn't have it", rather than "I wonder if it has 'such and such', or anything similar... Let me go see"
That said, I'm assuming you're referring to the so-called "sub weapon" system, or where you can tap into skills from other classes while playing a different one? If so, then yeah... it is actually more versatile than XI's subjobs.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
When is the open beta?
5~8 months from now.
I call BS on this statement of "you don't have to its only an option". Frankly most FF players are already accustomed to the assumption that seems "are a given". Need examples? Your RDM may not have to sub BLM in dynamis but frankly what use are they subbing anything else with the exception of DRK in rare instances? DRG, DRK, WAR doesn't have to sub SAM in a merit party but what happens when they don't? I can bet ya 9 out of 10 times a *sigh* goes up. MMorpgs are about optimization of party and solo mechanics. If we do events that require us to have a certain set of jobs ready, we'd better have them or expect to be excluded. And yea we sometimes make exceptions for friends or beginners but lets take this seriously now, are we gonna sit here and say "You can be a drg and not have SAM, RDM/WHM as a sub and still be treated equally and fairly with the other drg?".
Fact is there is a certain degree to which we "tolerate" things we don't like. Gear swapping is debated. Which subs to have ready is also debateably pending on whether your the primary, backup for a position. Its true its your perogative as to how you wish to play but its also true that its the other players perogative on whether they should want you or not for an event. You can sit there and say "yea my Drg/War does fine so thxbye" and I can sit here and say "np lets not invite you to a party" or "let's boot you from the party". You can say mmorpgs allow freedom on how we play a game but that's about as false of an illusion if there is any. That's a sandbox mmorpg, this is FF11 and FF14; players want things done in a certain way. I like my RDM's subbing blm in Dyna, I like my 2-hander DD's subbing SAM in most situations you can imagine, I like my BLM's subbing RDM, the list goes on. Play the game you wish to play but having said that it doesn't mean the population base is going to be kinder to you. That's how the FF crowd is often.
Gonna have to side with Alberel and sdeleon on this. Players gravitate towards the most effective and efficient strategies. The "option" to intentionally gimp yourself isn't much of an option at all. What players are asking here is not so much "I do not want to gear swap", but rather "I do not want gear swapping to be possible." There are a number of reasons why someone might feel that way, and none of those reasons are invalided by responding with "then you should just stop doing it."
Having to choose between two pieces of equipment that impart different benefits is an interesting choice; it is completely reasonable to not want to be allowed to remove that choice by getting full benefit from both pieces. And in an MMO, it's reasonable to not want others to have that choice either. There's the fact that you want to be effective as everyone else so that you can get into parties, but there's more to it than that. It feels wrong to know that other players can do "better" at the game in a way that you don't think they should be able to. This feeling can be enough to drive someone away from a game that they would have enjoyed otherwise, so it's good for developers to listen to these complaints.
They need to make it a new game just because, unless ffxi changed from when i played it, leveling is a huge task and like most MMO's if your competitive it sucks STARTING the game years behind everyone else. I really enjoyed ffxi although I only leveled into the mid 40s. The experience was great and took a lot of time. One of the big things i find missing in your WoW style mmos is the absense of groups while leveling except for the 'elite' quests. I really honestly truthfully sincerly enjoyed the group leveling of EQ and FFXI. You make friends all along the way because you group with them every day. Its hard to level up in a game that takes solid group work from level 5 on and be a douche bag or suck at your class, by the time your level 30 nobody will group with you because you are A) annoying
suck. One of the biggest complaints of WoW was the 'maturity'. Consider a group heavy leveling system as a filter, immature people or those who try to free ride on 40 man raids wont be able to get anywhere because they will be weeded out early. FFXI was one of these games where the process of leveling, although tideous is enjoyable because you are in constant interaction with people, its essentially like grinding heroic dungeons in wow. which is why in the first time in my mmo career i didnt max level a character but i still felt like i played the game and enjoyed it.
I have a hard time beliving the game will be watered down because SE is still an Eastern company and will still try to appeal to both markets. In doing so they can profit off the Eastern mmo market which typically is more grind intensive as well as the western market that wants that in a game that isnt some cruddy korean rush job mmo.
Lastly if they do away with sub jobs or skill chains im going to freak out. The subjob system was awesome, and i mean awesome because for people like myself who enjoy their main characters it allowed the creation of alts that retained some of the main characters benefits. If you really liked your paladin but also wanted to play a ninja, well shit you could be a pld/ninja or a ninja/pld. In my case i really enjoyed the white mage class but i also wanted to try to red mage, so i was a whm/rdm and it worked great.
There also better be fishing, moat carp ftw?
I can't believe you said that this game takes place in the same world...do you know enough about the FFXI Lore vs. the FFXIV lore to say this?
FFXI takes place in the world of Vana'diel
FFXIV takes place in the world of E'orzea
FFXI uses 5 core racess(Humans, Elvaan, Galka, Mithra, and Tarutaru)
FFXIV uses 5 similar races that, while look cosmetically similar, are slightly different and named differently(I.e. Mithra became Mi'qote)
FFXIV also has completely different game mechanics
Note that all this info is available from the main website for XIV. To say that you're not really qualified to write an article comparing 2 games you clearly don't know very much about other than that they are both made by the same company and share a title would be an understatement.
The Famitsu article described in this post on FFXIVCore explains something called Battle Regimen, which seems to be a replacement for skillchains. You'll be able to combine even basic attacks into joint attacks that have an added effect.
As for subjobs, they're gone. But you will have the ability to switch jobs in between battles without returning to town and you will be able to use the abilities from other jobs to some extent. So it's not the same, but not a complete change either.
To those panicing about the removal of subjobs:
Relax.
If you read up on the mechanics of the new system they are putting in place, it actually offers a far greater degree of customization than the sub job system did, without the downsides (like needing specific accepted job combos to even think about getting party invites). You could say it basically expands the mechanics for Blue Mage from FFXI across every job and adds to them (which is a good thing, because that was by far the most customizable class on it's own).
To those worried that the game will be "WoW with moogles":
Your concerns are not justified. That's not the way SE, or really any Asian MMO developer, does things. It's frigging SE, they have their own ideas and their work can stand on it's own without copying others. If they choose to make it more casual-friendly, it would be a wise move - FFXI was far too inaccessible for most players. That doesn't create your false dichotomy of FFXI vs WoW.
To FFXI vets concerned that the game will not be FFXI with better graphics:
SE aims to do something different with every game they make; they have no reason to make the same game twice. You'll still have your very own Final Fantasy MMO if you absolutely can't live with the different mechanics of FFXIV.
To people concerned that FFXIV will be FFXI with better graphics:
See above (first sentence).
I've always been of mind to play FF XI if it weren't for Playonline...if they ever realized how many more subs they could get from the PC market by ditching that crap and conforming the UI to be more functional on a PC then I'd be there subbing in a heartbeat!
Oh I think it's way too soon to be saying something like that...
While lots of people have great faith in S-E, there is still room for them to mess this up. We don't even know what all the jobs are yet; it's premature to say that there will not be required job combos (or whatever you want to call the FFXIV equivalent). It is possible, for example, that Thaumaturge's Siphon TP spell will be so powerful that all DPS characters will be basically required to keep it Thaumaturge levelled or miss out on parties. Or maybe every non-tank will be required to keep Archer levelled to make use of Chameleon for reducing Enmity. It is hard enough to balance a dozen (or more) classes; it's much harder to balance them while also allowing people to mix-and-match. Add in the fact that a.) there are several non-combat-oriended classes, b.) most fights will (supposedly) be against whole parties of mobs, and c.) MP does not regen... FFXIV is doing a lot of things differently than other MMOs and so they can't really look to MMOs that have done these things before for guidance. The first people to try something new almost never get it perfectly right the first time. I am cautiously optimistic for now, but it is practically a given that some builds will emerge as the most powerful and most desired for groups.
This. For some strange reason SE always hated pc.
If this new version of Final Fantasy was to convince ME I should buy it then first I'd need to be convinced that it was NOTHING like FF XI
FFXI is shocking, I just dont think that grinding for years in one area is acceptable anymore. The people that stay with FFXI are only staying because they have sold a portion of their life to it.
"
MMORPG.com:
What do you think is the biggest sore spot amongst veteran players in regards to FFXVI right now?
Ganen:
The possible "easiness" of the game from what I've heard about it. If there are private instances, that will be a killer for a bunch of people. One of the best things about eleven was being able to go to a zone, see other people there, fight for spots, and fight for mobs. If the game is all instances and privatized, the game will feel less like an MMO and more like a single player game with a chat box.
MMORPG.com:
What do you feel FFXIV has to do right in order to be a good successor for FFXI?
Ganen:
Port a lot of the qualities off of eleven and don't try to change the formula too much. If they just improve upon the rest and don't make the game too watered down, it will be successful.
"
1.- I'm one of those vets that think that heavy instancing is a MMO killer, some instancing is acceptable as a secondary option, if there's too many players grinding, fighting and camping, then yeah instances would be a reasonable solution, but it's still a bad excuse for better coding, there's a MMO out there that has pretty fast respawn of npcs and quest items don't need respawn as they never disappear after a player collects it.
2.- FFXI had some very good features that would transfer well to XIV, the grinding I liked to an extent, I agree it was long and painful, but there was so much variety that it didn't get boring or tedious. I hope that in this obvious westernized version (even if they deny is not that), they don't start leaning heavily towards questing as the main way to level, but instead trying to strike a balance between grinding and questing so players can do either one or both without feeling one is slower than the other.
I think that more than 50% of the playerbase will leave Final Fantasy XI for Final Fantasy XIV.
Yes thats how many that wants the nicer looking graphics.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
I can't wait for FFXIV RaWwwwR!
Not my classiest post... >.>
And I maintain that in 7+ years playing the game, not always doing "what I was expected to, because I was expected to", not having /nin subbed because "I was expected to", and so on... that I have done completely fine. As have others I've known. Have comments been made? Sure. Has it hindered me from playing? No.
You can disagree on principle of whether it's better or worse to follow the trends... Fine. That's debatable.
But in my first-hand experience, it is not at all necessary and does not necessarily negatively impact the game experience.
It's ironic that you mention DRG/WAR in your example... because I got my DRG to 65 as DRG/WAR before deciding to switch over to /SAM just for variety. And I did just fine, and held my own. I was asked why I didn't have other jobs subbed, and my answer was "Because I enjoy this combo". Again... I did fine. It didn't hold me back from playing and leveling and getting DRG to 75.
I've been told I need /NIN if I want to get into parties into the 70s on Monk. I was told "no one will invite you to parties as MNK/SAM." Guess what? My NIN is still 14, my Monk is 73. I'm getting parties. No problems.
Not everyone sticks to guides and templates as though they were etched in stone, except perhaps for those who need them to succeed in the game, or feel as though they're "not playing the right way" if they don't, or feel they "need to be as efficient as possible at all times". A RL friend of mine falls into the latter category, and he would regularly tell me that I was playing wrong since I didn't follow the guides as he did. I, fortunately, dont' fit into any of those categories.
I've seen plenty of times people take unorthodox setups and make them work in situations people insisted they wouldn't. They worked because the person organizing it understood the jobs and the game mechanics enough to concoct a stratey that worked.
As I said before.. you don't *have* to play the way others "expect" you to. You *choose* to. And to anyone who chooses to play that way... hey... if you're enjoying the game, more power to you.
In the end we can agree to disagree. I have my playstyle, you have yours. That the game has allowed us each to enjoy it in our own way is win-win as far as I'm concerned. I just take issue with the original notion that swapping gear is somehow some "problem" that SE has to "eliminate", when it's optional, and SE didn't mandate it in the first place.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops