Like a previous poster mentioned F2P terminology needs to be renamed to FTPIS. " Free To Play Item Shop "
So while the game is still free to play, you still have to pay money to progress.
I'll never play an item shop game, never ever ever. FTPIS can be popular all they want, but I'll not buy into them.
That's not what I meant. You are still seeing the FTP in this and not the fact that the P2P options are still there. You can still subscribe as usual and get what you got before. Think about it. Terminology does need to be changed but not to something like FTPIS which are basically item shops at their core. Lotro isn't going to be an itemshop at its core any more than EQ2 or WoW is.
Above posts are all proving my point. Knee jerk reactions to the FTP terminology. Amazing.
You can't please both sides of the F2P/Item shop and the P2P people in one game. It's not about the payment methods but about the item shop and that those who prefer the P2P model doesn't want some newbie coming in with a thick wad of cash and reach the same power as them in very little time or instantaneously through the item shop.
It'll never work.
but that's just it. You can't walk into DDO and LOTRO and buy a max level uber geared char. You still have to work for it. Cash shop items make the work easier, that's all.
You mean " Work you character up to end game and then buy there way through it " ?
Samething. It'll never work.
There are no goals. It's just go to work, get pay check, come home, buy sword, log off.
The sword was your goal, but you achieved it by serving people hamburgers or finishing that report. Instead of completing a dungeon and be rewarded with the idea that you defeated that dragon and retrieved your sword. There will be better alternatives to F2P/Item Shop, question is when will they come and in what form.
Do you even know how the DDO shop works? And what it sells? Because I don't think you do :-)
Richard writes about F2P games, and only F2P games. While the topic at hand is about LotRO going F2P, the subject of F2P games and Item Shops in general is completely relevant here.
I think I have a feeling why LotRo is going F2P... Lately Turbine was getting slower and slower releasing new content.
When Siege of Mirkwood came out (just a book within Mines of Moria) the players had to actually buy ie (1st sign of cashflow problems).
Then Turbine sold itself to TimeWarner (2nd sign of cashflow problems)
And now LotRo goes F2P like the DDO model (3rd sign of cashflow problems)
I think Turbine wants too much with their next expansion, and after 2 major expansions and a lot of books, they found their funds drying up. Okay, LotRo might be one of the more successful P2P (Western) MMORPGs, but with the time and effort put into the game by Turbine, development costs a lot. We also have to keep in mind that Turnine made a BIG promise for both DDO and LotRo this year. Everyone thinks both games will be the 1st DX11 MMORPGs around, and that'll cost Turbine a lot as well.
Personally I think Turbine's cashflow is at an ultimate low. Dispite of all the income that the game might generate (which I think it does), the development Turbine pumps in the game is a bigger money sinkhole. Lets just wait for the new book to come, as well as that big surprise. My guess is that nothing real major will be done for LotRo this year
I just knew we would hear Richard gloating about this announcement.
Yes... Shocking that the guy who gets paid to write about the F2P industry would write about the biggest piece of F2P news in recent memory.
Also, I wouldn't see it as gloating. You DO understand that Mr. Aihoshi has no personal stake in the F2P industry other than the fact that he writes about it, right?
I'd hardly say he has no stake in it ;-) Even if it is not a material stake, he is clearly biased towards it rather than against it, which means he has some form of stake in it on a personal level.
I happen to agree with much of what he says though, even going a lot further.
Well, of course he has a bias. He writes about F2P games and the articles here are OPINION PIECES.
It's not fucking news.
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -Winston Churchill
Female Styles: Ponytail Mohawk, Short Coif with Braid, Spunky Bun & more! Male Styles: The Hercules, Loose with Braid, Medium with Forelock & more!
75
HAIR DYE REVERSION
Permanently change the color of your character's hair back to the original color he or she had at character creation! Single stacks and 5-stacks!
10-35
HAIR STYLE REVERSION
Permanently change the style of your character's hair back to the original style he or she had at character creation! Single stacks and 5-stacks!
10-35
HAIR DYE & STYLE REVERSION
"Double-Duty" Reversion! Permanently change both the color & style of your character's hair back to the original color & style he or she had at character creation! Single stacks and 5-stacks!
15-60
COSMETIC GEAR
Cosmetic Gear for your DDO character! Hats, Helms, Masks, Bandanas & More!
95-150
^^^ that's all fine n dandy
XP & LOOT BOOSTS
XP BOOSTS
Experience Elixirs that grant 10-20% bonuses to XP for 3-6 hours! Single and 5-Stacks available.
50-1180
LOOT BOOSTS
Jewels of Fortune that grant your character a +1 bonus to the level of treasure earned from opening treasure chests. 5, 10 and 25-Stacks available.
95-500
^^^ this is not
MMmmm..mm..anyone want some of this pizza? It's delicious.
Richard writes about F2P games, and only F2P games. While the topic at hand is about LotRO going F2P, the subject of F2P games and Item Shops in general is completely relevant here.
Well in that case DDO doesn't have an item shop like games that sell Epic Swords and Hammers!
I'd even compare DDO to Guild Wars!
HOW DARE YOU smack my delicious pizza out of my hands!
That you would! But DDO has gone one further and said, "You CAN commit if you want! But you don't have to, here's a fair aqnd reasonable F2P option!"
And then they've gone... "You CAN EVEN play the game ENTIRELY FOR FREE! It's very hard, and you'll have to grind endlessly... but if you want... you know... you can! (But you're clearly a nutter if you do)."
There's a lot of discussion here, and I like to see people talking things out, but I am going to throw in an OT and say I enjoy this column, and the LOTRO news is big news indeed.
With server merges coming up, I think EQ, even being an old game, would REALLY benefit from the influx of players if it went to a hybrid business model like Turbine is doing, but SOE says that won't happen. I think it is a shame they've closed that door. The free trial for the game is really pretty awful, so I don't think that's a good substitute for letting people get in and really play before deciding if and how much they are willing to pay.
Then again, "never" is a little shorter for SOE than it is for everyone else. They've done a few things they said they wouldn't.
I think this will be good for LoTRO, because the hard part is getting people in the door, and free trials don't work the same way. It's easy to play a game for 7, 10, or 14 days and then just walk away, but if you know you can play as long as you want, you might find yourself in a position where you've invested enough that you're willing to pay to keep going. That's how I ended up spending more per month on an item mall game than I would have on a subscription-- by the time I was level 90 and really needed to spend money to go on and keep up, I was already pretty invested in the game and I really WANTED those items.
I have no problem paying for a game I am enjoying, either in subs or microtransactions. The people I am a little confused by are those who feel that they shouldn't ever have to pay anything... But that's where the problem with calling games "free to play" comes in.
So how long before WoW does the same? The item mall is already in place...
Lol. Welcome to the future.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
But WHY...WHY would you want to pay a monthly fee for a game like Guild Wars.
Well... the payment system for Guild Wars doesn't go quite as far as the payment system in DDO. DDO offers the same things but it also offers more in the way of additional content, as in classes, mini-expansions etc. So you can't really compare the two on any practical level, but the two payment systems are very similar.
And ArenaNet obviously believe the system will work for Guild Wars 2, which is a much, much more traditional MMO than the first game was. Ala Lotro ;-)
Richard writes about F2P games, and only F2P games. While the topic at hand is about LotRO going F2P, the subject of F2P games and Item Shops in general is completely relevant here.
My opinion of F2P/Item shop still applies to DDO. The XP and Loot boosters still give an edge over P2P players.
*chops on food*
*puts on brakes as train comes to a screeching halt*
I can't speak to DDO because I haven't played the game since before it went to the hybrid model. I can, however, speak to LoTRO because I have played since beta, I do play, and will continue to play after the hybrid model takes effect in the fall. I'm a founder and a lifetime sub holder.
Lifetime sub holders will automatically be converted to VIP subs under the hybrid model. We currently get and will continue to get rest XP...just as WoW players get and many other games grant. Rest XP is nothing more than an XP boost that lasts a certain amount of time. VIP players can also use destiny points to purchase an extension to that XP boost if they so desire or use destiny points to purchase a means of removing dread (the death penalty) or any number of things to assist them in game. Players who use the free client do not automatically get rest XP, nor can they spend destiny points (in some cases, they don't even acquire DP if I understand the explanation correctly). The item shop for LoTRO, as I understand it currently, simply allows those players who choose the free client with the a la carte item shop to purchase the same options that VIP players such as lifetime sub holders already have available. It evens the playing field for all players across the board.
This kind of a la carte item shop I have no problem whatsoever with. Now, if they start selling my level 15 founder's mount or the other items that founders received (the cloak and ring each character created on the account starts out with) in the item shop, I might have a slight issue with that because those were rewards that founders got for a reason (if I recall, it was beta testers who opted for a lifetime sub before launch at the $199 price. The original non-founder rate for a lifetime sub was $299 - but it's been over 3 years, so I could be mistaken). This kind of shop levels the field so that even the free to players can have the exact same game experience, should they so choose, as those of us who have paid either for a lifetime sub or those who continue to pay a monthly sub fee, so I don't really see anything wrong with it.
Now, if the item shop started selling recipes or armour that were rare drops from difficult instances or raids, then yes, I would have a serious problem with it. But so long as it creates a situation where free players can have all five inventory bags instead of three, can have and spend destiny points as I can, can gain rest XP as I can, can engage in skirmishes and PvMP as I can and, most importantly for new players, can use chat and the AH as freely as I can, then no, I really don't have a problem with the item shop as it is currently proposed because all it does is levels the playing field between the paid subscription holders and the players who opt not to pay a monthly fee. If they choose to nickel and dime themselves, that is their choice, but some folks really would rather pay $5 per month than $15 and they should have the right to make that decision for themselves, in my opinion so long as it does not impact everyone else's gameplay and only impacts their own.
TL;DR: under what I understand to be LoTRO's current proposal, it is the P2P players and not the free players using the item shop, who have the advantage. Check your facts.
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
But WHY...WHY would you want to pay a monthly fee for a game like Guild Wars.
Well... the payment system for Guild Wars doesn't go quite as far as the payment system in DDO. DDO offers the same things but it also offers more in the way of additional content, as in classes, mini-expansions etc. So you can't really compare the two on any practical level, but the two payment systems are very similar.
And ArenaNet obviously believe the system will work for Guild Wars 2, which is a much, much more traditional MMO than the first game was. Ala Lotro ;-)
Well Guild Wars offers those samethings, that must be purchased. Except they're sold in B2P retail box's/digital downloads and you can't buy indvidual parts of content (like one class or this set of skills). I mean really, the only difference here is: In guild wars, you ahve to buy the expansion pack that comes with a [insert class here] but it also comes with all the other stuff, like an additional class, and all new content.
Richard writes about F2P games, and only F2P games. While the topic at hand is about LotRO going F2P, the subject of F2P games and Item Shops in general is completely relevant here.
My opinion of F2P/Item shop still applies to DDO. The XP and Loot boosters still give an edge over P2P players.
*chops on food*
*puts on brakes as train comes to a screeching halt*
I can't speak to DDO because I haven't played the game since before it went to the hybrid model. I can, however, speak to LoTRO because I have played since beta, I do play, and will continue to play after the hybrid model takes effect in the fall. I'm a founder and a lifetime sub holder.
Lifetime sub holders will automatically be converted to VIP subs under the hybrid model. We currently get and will continue to get rest XP...just as WoW players get and many other games grant. Rest XP is nothing more than an XP boost that lasts a certain amount of time. VIP players can also use destiny points to purchase an extension to that XP boost if they so desire or use destiny points to purchase a means of removing dread (the death penalty) or any number of things to assist them in game. Players who use the free client do not automatically get rest XP, nor can they spend destiny points (in some cases, they don't even acquire DP if I understand the explanation correctly). The item shop for LoTRO, as I understand it currently, simply allows those players who choose the free client with the a la carte item shop to purchase the same options that VIP players such as lifetime sub holders already have available. It evens the playing field for all players across the board.
This kind of a la carte item shop I have no problem whatsoever with. Now, if they start selling my level 15 founder's mount or the other items that founders received (the cloak and ring each character created on the account starts out with) in the item shop, I might have a slight issue with that because those were rewards that founders got for a reason (if I recall, it was beta testers who opted for a lifetime sub before launch at the $199 price. The original non-founder rate for a lifetime sub was $299 - but it's been over 3 years, so I could be mistaken). This kind of shop levels the field so that even the free to players can have the exact same game experience, should they so choose, as those of us who have paid either for a lifetime sub or those who continue to pay a monthly sub fee, so I don't really see anything wrong with it.
Now, if the item shop started selling recipes or armour that were rare drops from difficult instances or raids, then yes, I would have a serious problem with it. But so long as it creates a situation where free players can have all five inventory bags instead of three, can have and spend destiny points as I can, can gain rest XP as I can, can engage in skirmishes and PvMP as I can and, most importantly for new players, can use chat and the AH as freely as I can, then no, I really don't have a problem with the item shop as it is currently proposed because all it does is levels the playing field between the paid subscription holders and the players who opt not to pay a monthly fee. If they choose to nickel and dime themselves, that is their choice, but some folks really would rather pay $5 per month than $15 and they should have the right to make that decision for themselves, in my opinion so long as it does not impact everyone else's gameplay and only impacts their own.
TL;DR: under what I understand to be LoTRO's current proposal, it is the P2P players and not the free players using the item shop, who have the advantage. Check your facts.
Let's see...bla bla bla...bla bla...disregarded because you haven't read everything I've discussed after that comment you quoted and if you had you'd know that I HAD checked my facts that you and I DO see eye to eye.
*offers you some ritalin*
Anyway I'm done discussing this, you folks can quote me and flame all you want I won't read it after this.
I am glad to see devs trying new things at least. I've been playing MMOs since about the time Luclin was released for Everquest and I always dread the week before the sub is due, especially if I've made headway to near the end of the level cap.
Much rather pay for occasional DLCs/merch when I want to, instead of having to always gauge the worth of keeping my sub. There's been plenty of times I lose interest mid sub and "waste" the rest of the month not playing.
in my view in this kind of method for revenue might actually push developers to kick up the quality of frequent updates. From what I have seen, the sub based content updates versus the expansions are always decent at best and don't last long.
If the team was focusing on maybe a good DLC every few months for a reasonable price and a big one every 6 months I'd gladly pay for them and might consistantly play throughout the year, but with a sub I might play 3 months straight at best at this point.
But WHY...WHY would you want to pay a monthly fee for a game like Guild Wars.
Well... the payment system for Guild Wars doesn't go quite as far as the payment system in DDO. DDO offers the same things but it also offers more in the way of additional content, as in classes, mini-expansions etc. So you can't really compare the two on any practical level, but the two payment systems are very similar.
And ArenaNet obviously believe the system will work for Guild Wars 2, which is a much, much more traditional MMO than the first game was. Ala Lotro ;-)
Well Guild Wars offers those samethings, that must be purchased. Except they're sold in B2P retail box's/digital downloads and you can't buy indvidual parts of content (like one class or this set of skills). I mean really, the only difference here is: In guild wars, you ahve to buy the expansion pack that comes with a [insert class here] but it also comes with all the other stuff, like an additional class, and all new content.
The biggest difference is that Guild Wars is a quality game and ArenaNet chose the right business model from the start. Lotro on the other hand is a failed game that is trying to be saved from the f2p model.
But WHY...WHY would you want to pay a monthly fee for a game like Guild Wars.
Well... the payment system for Guild Wars doesn't go quite as far as the payment system in DDO. DDO offers the same things but it also offers more in the way of additional content, as in classes, mini-expansions etc. So you can't really compare the two on any practical level, but the two payment systems are very similar.
And ArenaNet obviously believe the system will work for Guild Wars 2, which is a much, much more traditional MMO than the first game was. Ala Lotro ;-)
Well Guild Wars offers those samethings, that must be purchased. Except they're sold in B2P retail box's/digital downloads and you can't buy indvidual parts of content (like one class or this set of skills). I mean really, the only difference here is: In guild wars, you ahve to buy the expansion pack that comes with a [insert class here] but it also comes with all the other stuff, like an additional class, and all new content.
The biggest difference is that Guild Wars is a quality game and ArenaNet chose the right business model from the start. Lotro on the other hand is a failed game that is trying to be saved from the f2p model.
LotRo was widely regarded as a successful MMO. In fact many critics were seeing increased trends which suggested the game had returned to growth. Turbines decision to take LotRo to this Hybrid model should not be seen as a fix to a problem. It makes sense even if you do not look at it from that perspective. It would make sense for WoW to make the move for example.
I highly doubt that the game legitimately had 300,000 subscribers because I have never met a person whose even tried the game. I always see Turbine doing these crazy deals such as one weekend was $10 for not only every expansion but also the original game and the first month free.
If the game was as profitable as you claim then they wouldn't have done this. You won't see WoW leaving their model; will they offer things for cash? Yes, because they want to make more money, but they won't ever go fully free because they are too successful. Same for any other reasonably intelligent game publisher.
I'd personally guess that the number of actively subscribing accounts at the time this happened was 50,000 but probably less. What knowledge do these people who "guess these things" have, considering the company doesn't release subscriber numbers? They just say, 200,000 sounds like a nice number and then guess it, but its recognized becuase of them being known in the industry?
I remember when AoC was thought to be really successful when it turned out that there were like 5 people online. Don't trust everything you read.
Like a previous poster mentioned F2P terminology needs to be renamed to FTPIS. " Free To Play Item Shop "
So while the game is still free to play, you still have to pay money to progress.
I'll never play an item shop game, never ever ever. FTPIS can be popular all they want, but I'll not buy into them.
That's not what I meant. You are still seeing the FTP in this and not the fact that the P2P options are still there. You can still subscribe as usual and get what you got before. Think about it. Terminology does need to be changed but not to something like FTPIS which are basically item shops at their core. Lotro isn't going to be an itemshop at its core any more than EQ2 or WoW is.
Above posts are all proving my point. Knee jerk reactions to the FTP terminology. Amazing.
You can't please both sides of the F2P/Item shop and the P2P people in one game. It's not about the payment methods but about the item shop and that those who prefer the P2P model doesn't want some newbie coming in with a thick wad of cash and reach the same power as them in very little time or instantaneously through the item shop.
It'll never work.
but that's just it. You can't walk into DDO and LOTRO and buy a max level uber geared char. You still have to work for it. Cash shop items make the work easier, that's all.
You mean " Work you character up to end game and then buy there way through it " ?
Samething. It'll never work.
There are no goals. It's just go to work, get pay check, come home, buy sword, log off.
The sword was your goal, but you achieved it by serving people hamburgers.
Again, not how DDO works. Go play the game to max level, and then come back with your facts straight. Its ok, I'll wait.
Couldn't be bothered to play anything with an item shop. Not without puking a little in my mouth.
Ah the old "I'm too good to be bothered to get the facts straight" line. Excellent.
Doesn't matter.
Majority of Item shop games work in this way. Shoo away.
Yes, but we're not talking about the crappy asian games. We're talking LOTRO and DDO. Shoo away yourself.
Well I'm talking about F2P/Item shop in general.
So again, shoo away pest. I'm trying to eat here.
Unfortunately your responses here and your unwillingness to actually discuss the topic is not uncommon among the people displaying hatred or contempt for this change. I think that if the anti-choice crowd was a little more open to discussion here they'd see that the sky hasn't fallen. If anything, it's opened up new possibilities for content and less expensive gaming for the majority of players.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Like a previous poster mentioned F2P terminology needs to be renamed to FTPIS. " Free To Play Item Shop "
So while the game is still free to play, you still have to pay money to progress.
I'll never play an item shop game, never ever ever. FTPIS can be popular all they want, but I'll not buy into them.
That's not what I meant. You are still seeing the FTP in this and not the fact that the P2P options are still there. You can still subscribe as usual and get what you got before. Think about it. Terminology does need to be changed but not to something like FTPIS which are basically item shops at their core. Lotro isn't going to be an itemshop at its core any more than EQ2 or WoW is.
Above posts are all proving my point. Knee jerk reactions to the FTP terminology. Amazing.
I am curious. How would you name this new model ?
F2P means free to play.
The game is free to play with no additional costs and when ever you want.
But then not everything in the game itself is free.
Its like if resturant will advertise free meal. And in fact pasta and salads are free but meats cost money. Its still free meal , but not all offered is free.
Its pointless. Lets just agree its called F2P its easier that way
There's already a word for it: freemium.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
The biggest difference is that Guild Wars is a quality game and ArenaNet chose the right business model from the start. Lotro on the other hand is a failed game that is trying to be saved from the f2p model.
Source? You make a lot of really odd claims and I'd like to know what bizarre site is feeding you this stuff.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yes companies are switching to free to play Richard, and yes we all knew they would despite the fact many of us hate the model and won't play it. The reason is simple by going "Free" to play, your profits increase dramatically, simply because there's so many people out there who love to spend hundreds of dollars in one month on pixels. One guy spending 200 bucks in a month and 10 subscribers quitting over the f2p move = more profit to the company.
This doesn't mean the model is better, or even more enjoyable for gamers. All it means is there are enough crazy people out there that will spend a fortune each month on your game if you provide a way for them to do it.
I'll still stick to much subscriber only MMOs, and when there's none left I will simply be done with MMOs. I haven't bought a console game in a long time because I know every game will have a few hours of content and then will release DLC and make you pay several times over for what you should of got in the first place.
I might be in the minority, but I will stick to my principles and not do an item shop game (even if it has a sub option, and even if most of the items are cosmetic). And I will not buy games that have little content but have DLC packs to make up for it. Perhaps one day I will simply be done with gaming, at that point I'll be older and have more important things to worry about so it probably won't matter much anyways.
you are not alone, I saw several player of lotor just saying his goodbyes to any friends and moving on, also trubine is not making the game F2P, is like the DDO unlimited trial, you can play part of the game till lvl cap anytime you want and with no need to pay for it, but if you want a certain class you need to pay to unlock it, and certain content is locked till you pay for it, pretty much like the steal is the DLC, normally it as a free scenario you cold download for the game now you have to pay for it, feh and the publishers complaing about the piracy of they games, its ridiculous, sad and enraging.
I played DDO for sometime after the F2P anouncement, hell any old D&D player who worth his salt and play MMOs would try, stopped after the first month because the all for sell content to "expand" my gameplay, better say I just want to milk more money for my failed MMO, at least it would be more honest.
thing is I make one main MMO(right now Aion), and maybe one or 2 just for fun, a lot of then in OB are far more fun then after the CS came to the game, some can keep a certain balance btw CS and free, but turbine can't do that in DDO they shows to everyone what they really want, but hey when we have people in this world who only care about thenselfs, and don't care about they money or work, you will see cheaters, people who do crimes and don't care because they can pay, but in a smaller scale we have here just one more sad excuse to milk more money, and several people buy it.
PS> I really want to see what Jaime Skelton will say about one game she play in a month or 2.
Like a previous poster mentioned F2P terminology needs to be renamed to FTPIS. " Free To Play Item Shop "
So while the game is still free to play, you still have to pay money to progress.
I'll never play an item shop game, never ever ever. FTPIS can be popular all they want, but I'll not buy into them.
That's not what I meant. You are still seeing the FTP in this and not the fact that the P2P options are still there. You can still subscribe as usual and get what you got before. Think about it. Terminology does need to be changed but not to something like FTPIS which are basically item shops at their core. Lotro isn't going to be an itemshop at its core any more than EQ2 or WoW is.
Above posts are all proving my point. Knee jerk reactions to the FTP terminology. Amazing.
You can't please both sides of the F2P/Item shop and the P2P people in one game. It's not about the payment methods but about the item shop and that those who prefer the P2P model doesn't want some newbie coming in with a thick wad of cash and reach the same power as them in very little time or instantaneously through the item shop.
It'll never work.
but that's just it. You can't walk into DDO and LOTRO and buy a max level uber geared char. You still have to work for it. Cash shop items make the work easier, that's all.
You mean " Work you character up to end game and then buy there way through it " ?
Samething. It'll never work.
There are no goals. It's just go to work, get pay check, come home, buy sword, log off.
The sword was your goal, but you achieved it by serving people hamburgers.
Again, not how DDO works. Go play the game to max level, and then come back with your facts straight. Its ok, I'll wait.
Couldn't be bothered to play anything with an item shop. Not without puking a little in my mouth.
Ah the old "I'm too good to be bothered to get the facts straight" line. Excellent.
Doesn't matter.
Majority of Item shop games work in this way. Shoo away.
Yes, but we're not talking about the crappy asian games. We're talking LOTRO and DDO. Shoo away yourself.
Well I'm talking about F2P/Item shop in general.
So again, shoo away pest. I'm trying to eat here.
Unfortunately your responses here and your unwillingness to actually discuss the topic is not uncommon among the people displaying hatred or contempt for this change. I think that if the anti-choice crowd was a little more open to discussion here they'd see that the sky hasn't fallen. If anything, it's opened up new possibilities for content and less expensive gaming for the majority of players.
Leave the guy alone. He did discuss it if you read through our posts in the thread, and he also accepted the position and even stated that he agrees that the iteration of the model at play in DDO and LotRo works.
Comments
Do you even know how the DDO shop works? And what it sells? Because I don't think you do :-)
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
Richard writes about F2P games, and only F2P games. While the topic at hand is about LotRO going F2P, the subject of F2P games and Item Shops in general is completely relevant here.
*eats food with fly swatter in hand*
EDIT: After having read this - http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/DDO_Store_Guide
My opinion of F2P/Item shop still applies to DDO. The XP and Loot boosters still give an edge over P2P players.
*chops on food*
I think I have a feeling why LotRo is going F2P... Lately Turbine was getting slower and slower releasing new content.
When Siege of Mirkwood came out (just a book within Mines of Moria) the players had to actually buy ie (1st sign of cashflow problems).
Then Turbine sold itself to TimeWarner (2nd sign of cashflow problems)
And now LotRo goes F2P like the DDO model (3rd sign of cashflow problems)
I think Turbine wants too much with their next expansion, and after 2 major expansions and a lot of books, they found their funds drying up. Okay, LotRo might be one of the more successful P2P (Western) MMORPGs, but with the time and effort put into the game by Turbine, development costs a lot. We also have to keep in mind that Turnine made a BIG promise for both DDO and LotRo this year. Everyone thinks both games will be the 1st DX11 MMORPGs around, and that'll cost Turbine a lot as well.
Personally I think Turbine's cashflow is at an ultimate low. Dispite of all the income that the game might generate (which I think it does), the development Turbine pumps in the game is a bigger money sinkhole. Lets just wait for the new book to come, as well as that big surprise. My guess is that nothing real major will be done for LotRo this year
Well, of course he has a bias. He writes about F2P games and the articles here are OPINION PIECES.
It's not fucking news.
COSMETICS
STANDARD HAIRDYE
Ebony, Snow, Charcoal, Silver, Steel, Slate, Burgundy, Rose, Scarlet, Honey, Blond, Sage, Lavender, Chestnut, Amber, Fawn and Sienna
40
EXCLUSIVE HAIRDYE (colors shown below)
195
Gianthold Purple
Kundarak Orange
Elvenkind Forest
Royal Blue
Free Agent Fuchsia
Thunder Seafoam
Acid Green
Midnight Blue
Cerulean Blue
Redwillow Auburn
Phiarlan Wine
Jorasco Sun
Sky Blue
Petal Pink
HAIR STYLES
Female Styles: Ponytail Mohawk, Short Coif with Braid, Spunky Bun & more! Male Styles: The Hercules, Loose with Braid, Medium with Forelock & more!
75
HAIR DYE REVERSION
Permanently change the color of your character's hair back to the original color he or she had at character creation! Single stacks and 5-stacks!
10-35
HAIR STYLE REVERSION
Permanently change the style of your character's hair back to the original style he or she had at character creation! Single stacks and 5-stacks!
10-35
HAIR DYE & STYLE REVERSION
"Double-Duty" Reversion! Permanently change both the color & style of your character's hair back to the original color & style he or she had at character creation! Single stacks and 5-stacks!
15-60
COSMETIC GEAR
Cosmetic Gear for your DDO character! Hats, Helms, Masks, Bandanas & More!
95-150
^^^ that's all fine n dandy
XP & LOOT BOOSTS
XP BOOSTS
Experience Elixirs that grant 10-20% bonuses to XP for 3-6 hours! Single and 5-Stacks available.
50-1180
LOOT BOOSTS
Jewels of Fortune that grant your character a +1 bonus to the level of treasure earned from opening treasure chests. 5, 10 and 25-Stacks available.
95-500
^^^ this is not
MMmmm..mm..anyone want some of this pizza? It's delicious.
You get monies to spend on those items as a P2P player including in your subscription :-)
*smacks food out of hand and points at door*
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
Well in that case DDO doesn't have an item shop like games that sell Epic Swords and Hammers!
I'd even compare DDO to Guild Wars (my favorite game evar)!
HOW DARE YOU smack my delicious pizza out of my hands!
(i've absoluelty no problem with game stores that sell cosmetic or complentary items, like storage space)
That you would! But DDO has gone one further and said, "You CAN commit if you want! But you don't have to, here's a fair aqnd reasonable F2P option!"
And then they've gone... "You CAN EVEN play the game ENTIRELY FOR FREE! It's very hard, and you'll have to grind endlessly... but if you want... you know... you can! (But you're clearly a nutter if you do)."
*eats your pizza*
Yeah baby... that's how I role.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
There's a lot of discussion here, and I like to see people talking things out, but I am going to throw in an OT and say I enjoy this column, and the LOTRO news is big news indeed.
With server merges coming up, I think EQ, even being an old game, would REALLY benefit from the influx of players if it went to a hybrid business model like Turbine is doing, but SOE says that won't happen. I think it is a shame they've closed that door. The free trial for the game is really pretty awful, so I don't think that's a good substitute for letting people get in and really play before deciding if and how much they are willing to pay.
Then again, "never" is a little shorter for SOE than it is for everyone else. They've done a few things they said they wouldn't.
I think this will be good for LoTRO, because the hard part is getting people in the door, and free trials don't work the same way. It's easy to play a game for 7, 10, or 14 days and then just walk away, but if you know you can play as long as you want, you might find yourself in a position where you've invested enough that you're willing to pay to keep going. That's how I ended up spending more per month on an item mall game than I would have on a subscription-- by the time I was level 90 and really needed to spend money to go on and keep up, I was already pretty invested in the game and I really WANTED those items.
I have no problem paying for a game I am enjoying, either in subs or microtransactions. The people I am a little confused by are those who feel that they shouldn't ever have to pay anything... But that's where the problem with calling games "free to play" comes in.
Look like a way to get cash out of lifers to me. Won't stop me from playing though.
So how long before WoW does the same? The item mall is already in place...
Lol. Welcome to the future.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
Well... the payment system for Guild Wars doesn't go quite as far as the payment system in DDO. DDO offers the same things but it also offers more in the way of additional content, as in classes, mini-expansions etc. So you can't really compare the two on any practical level, but the two payment systems are very similar.
And ArenaNet obviously believe the system will work for Guild Wars 2, which is a much, much more traditional MMO than the first game was. Ala Lotro ;-)
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
*puts on brakes as train comes to a screeching halt*
I can't speak to DDO because I haven't played the game since before it went to the hybrid model. I can, however, speak to LoTRO because I have played since beta, I do play, and will continue to play after the hybrid model takes effect in the fall. I'm a founder and a lifetime sub holder.
Lifetime sub holders will automatically be converted to VIP subs under the hybrid model. We currently get and will continue to get rest XP...just as WoW players get and many other games grant. Rest XP is nothing more than an XP boost that lasts a certain amount of time. VIP players can also use destiny points to purchase an extension to that XP boost if they so desire or use destiny points to purchase a means of removing dread (the death penalty) or any number of things to assist them in game. Players who use the free client do not automatically get rest XP, nor can they spend destiny points (in some cases, they don't even acquire DP if I understand the explanation correctly). The item shop for LoTRO, as I understand it currently, simply allows those players who choose the free client with the a la carte item shop to purchase the same options that VIP players such as lifetime sub holders already have available. It evens the playing field for all players across the board.
This kind of a la carte item shop I have no problem whatsoever with. Now, if they start selling my level 15 founder's mount or the other items that founders received (the cloak and ring each character created on the account starts out with) in the item shop, I might have a slight issue with that because those were rewards that founders got for a reason (if I recall, it was beta testers who opted for a lifetime sub before launch at the $199 price. The original non-founder rate for a lifetime sub was $299 - but it's been over 3 years, so I could be mistaken). This kind of shop levels the field so that even the free to players can have the exact same game experience, should they so choose, as those of us who have paid either for a lifetime sub or those who continue to pay a monthly sub fee, so I don't really see anything wrong with it.
Now, if the item shop started selling recipes or armour that were rare drops from difficult instances or raids, then yes, I would have a serious problem with it. But so long as it creates a situation where free players can have all five inventory bags instead of three, can have and spend destiny points as I can, can gain rest XP as I can, can engage in skirmishes and PvMP as I can and, most importantly for new players, can use chat and the AH as freely as I can, then no, I really don't have a problem with the item shop as it is currently proposed because all it does is levels the playing field between the paid subscription holders and the players who opt not to pay a monthly fee. If they choose to nickel and dime themselves, that is their choice, but some folks really would rather pay $5 per month than $15 and they should have the right to make that decision for themselves, in my opinion so long as it does not impact everyone else's gameplay and only impacts their own.
TL;DR: under what I understand to be LoTRO's current proposal, it is the P2P players and not the free players using the item shop, who have the advantage. Check your facts.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
Well Guild Wars offers those samethings, that must be purchased. Except they're sold in B2P retail box's/digital downloads and you can't buy indvidual parts of content (like one class or this set of skills). I mean really, the only difference here is: In guild wars, you ahve to buy the expansion pack that comes with a [insert class here] but it also comes with all the other stuff, like an additional class, and all new content.
Let's see...bla bla bla...bla bla...disregarded because you haven't read everything I've discussed after that comment you quoted and if you had you'd know that I HAD checked my facts that you and I DO see eye to eye.
*offers you some ritalin*
Anyway I'm done discussing this, you folks can quote me and flame all you want I won't read it after this.
I am glad to see devs trying new things at least. I've been playing MMOs since about the time Luclin was released for Everquest and I always dread the week before the sub is due, especially if I've made headway to near the end of the level cap.
Much rather pay for occasional DLCs/merch when I want to, instead of having to always gauge the worth of keeping my sub. There's been plenty of times I lose interest mid sub and "waste" the rest of the month not playing.
in my view in this kind of method for revenue might actually push developers to kick up the quality of frequent updates. From what I have seen, the sub based content updates versus the expansions are always decent at best and don't last long.
If the team was focusing on maybe a good DLC every few months for a reasonable price and a big one every 6 months I'd gladly pay for them and might consistantly play throughout the year, but with a sub I might play 3 months straight at best at this point.
The biggest difference is that Guild Wars is a quality game and ArenaNet chose the right business model from the start. Lotro on the other hand is a failed game that is trying to be saved from the f2p model.
LotRo was widely regarded as a successful MMO. In fact many critics were seeing increased trends which suggested the game had returned to growth. Turbines decision to take LotRo to this Hybrid model should not be seen as a fix to a problem. It makes sense even if you do not look at it from that perspective. It would make sense for WoW to make the move for example.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
I highly doubt that the game legitimately had 300,000 subscribers because I have never met a person whose even tried the game. I always see Turbine doing these crazy deals such as one weekend was $10 for not only every expansion but also the original game and the first month free.
If the game was as profitable as you claim then they wouldn't have done this. You won't see WoW leaving their model; will they offer things for cash? Yes, because they want to make more money, but they won't ever go fully free because they are too successful. Same for any other reasonably intelligent game publisher.
I'd personally guess that the number of actively subscribing accounts at the time this happened was 50,000 but probably less. What knowledge do these people who "guess these things" have, considering the company doesn't release subscriber numbers? They just say, 200,000 sounds like a nice number and then guess it, but its recognized becuase of them being known in the industry?
I remember when AoC was thought to be really successful when it turned out that there were like 5 people online. Don't trust everything you read.
Mythic needs to take a bite out of Turbines shoes and apply the fully F2P concept to WAR. The current design is very ammenable to such a pay model.
DarkSpace Developer - Play DarkSpace - Play For Free!
Medusa Engine SDK - Free MMO Game Engine
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Unfortunately your responses here and your unwillingness to actually discuss the topic is not uncommon among the people displaying hatred or contempt for this change. I think that if the anti-choice crowd was a little more open to discussion here they'd see that the sky hasn't fallen. If anything, it's opened up new possibilities for content and less expensive gaming for the majority of players.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There's already a word for it: freemium.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Source? You make a lot of really odd claims and I'd like to know what bizarre site is feeding you this stuff.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
you are not alone, I saw several player of lotor just saying his goodbyes to any friends and moving on, also trubine is not making the game F2P, is like the DDO unlimited trial, you can play part of the game till lvl cap anytime you want and with no need to pay for it, but if you want a certain class you need to pay to unlock it, and certain content is locked till you pay for it, pretty much like the steal is the DLC, normally it as a free scenario you cold download for the game now you have to pay for it, feh and the publishers complaing about the piracy of they games, its ridiculous, sad and enraging.
I played DDO for sometime after the F2P anouncement, hell any old D&D player who worth his salt and play MMOs would try, stopped after the first month because the all for sell content to "expand" my gameplay, better say I just want to milk more money for my failed MMO, at least it would be more honest.
thing is I make one main MMO(right now Aion), and maybe one or 2 just for fun, a lot of then in OB are far more fun then after the CS came to the game, some can keep a certain balance btw CS and free, but turbine can't do that in DDO they shows to everyone what they really want, but hey when we have people in this world who only care about thenselfs, and don't care about they money or work, you will see cheaters, people who do crimes and don't care because they can pay, but in a smaller scale we have here just one more sad excuse to milk more money, and several people buy it.
PS> I really want to see what Jaime Skelton will say about one game she play in a month or 2.
Leave the guy alone. He did discuss it if you read through our posts in the thread, and he also accepted the position and even stated that he agrees that the iteration of the model at play in DDO and LotRo works.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!