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1. What was, is not what is. Even if we state that Jesus founded the early religion of Christianity, various people have in all forms of said religion effected it on some level. Thus, even the most orthodox of religions is still not the same as they were at their creation.
2. Let me put it this way, I think religion is merely used as an excuse. Remove religion and race would probably be used as a motivating factor to fight. Or economic situation, amount of land, etc. People when they wish will find even the most trivial reasons to fight.
3. I could just as easily ask if you cannot see the danger in everyone following the same ideas and the inherent danger of a world where we all accept one statement or belief as correct.
Of course, the fact that we have varied ideas and beliefs will not necessarily improve stability, however I do think it can lead to a better society. (For example several of the times in history which we view as being times of great progress and improvement have been when people began to question the beliefs that were formerly viewed as unchangeable).
I put on my top hat.
"Listen, you fuckers, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore. A man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is a man who stood up." - Robert DeNiro
Oh, you mean like Christians openly parade and try to force society to revolve around Christianity?
Oh, and you state that you don't believe God would have created us Himself because He wouldn't create imperfect beings?
It's called "free will".
Some of us utilize it rather than being good sheep while being led to the slaughter..
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
@zchmrkenhoff
I don't mean to attack your beliefs, but every religion can make the claim they have simply "expanded" or "furthered" the ideas of the original Christian Church...
In fact they all pretty much do.
All of them will deny that they have changed.
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Conflict like many things serves a purpose, that being said I do not feel I can say it is inherently better or worse to face an external or internal foe.
Is civil war better or worse than a regional or global war? Ultimately, such questions are relative...are we concerned with casualities, how it affects societies/cultures/nations/etc?
Both present distinct problems and issues, but it is hard to judge which is preferable in the long run.
I put on my top hat.
"God" would not have created us himself because 'he' cannot create imperfect beings.
We also have freewill.
If any Christian tries to force anyone to join Christianity then they are not representative of the faith. If they spread the good news however, then they are.
"Listen, you fuckers, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore. A man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is a man who stood up." - Robert DeNiro
"Listen, you fuckers, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore. A man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is a man who stood up." - Robert DeNiro
Perhaps, but those that seperate will simply say that the original religion no longer represents the faith.
All religion is interpetation, thus we could very well take one document or set of rules and alter them simply by choosing to translate certain words differently or take the meaning of a tale in another way.
I could have a hundred people read the Bible and each one could very well provide a different idea of what the faith is about.
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In any war your society and citizens are in danger, an external threat can inflict far worse casualties than an internal one or vice versa.
Furthermore even faced with an external threat you could very well face extreme amounts of civil unrest at home.
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I put on my top hat.
"Listen, you fuckers, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore. A man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is a man who stood up." - Robert DeNiro
wow i haven't seen so much bullshit typed out in a long time lol
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
So now you're saying God is not omnipotent? You're saying there is something God cannot do? Then God is not perfect. And if God is not perfect, then He would more than likely make us imperfect, like Himself. So for you to be right, it means you have to be wrong. Quite a predicament you're placing yourself in.
You know, the longer this goes on, you're not only backing yourself into a corner ( which you've done multiple times throughout this thread ), but now you're in an uncontrollable spin.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
God is perfect... everything that he makes is perfect therefore. Man is not perfect however. God cannot have created man directly then... as if he did, it would mean that he is not perfect. He is all powerful, yet he can't violate his own perfect nature with that power, otherwise he wouldn't be perfect. Instead, there was a buffer between his original creation and man... that buffer is the evolutionary trail of all of the animals that lead to us. In that way, we are God's creation... yet are also imperfect. What you must keep in mind about God's omnipotence is that he is bound to do things that it is logically possible for him to do. If he is perfect, then so is everything he creates... therefore, man, who isn't perfect, could not have been created directly by God... thus, God created a basic species that evolved into us.
You can very well pretend that I've backed myself into a corner multiple times, though you're saying so doesn't bring that any more truth than if I were to make the same accusation of you.
"Listen, you fuckers, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore. A man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is a man who stood up." - Robert DeNiro
I put on my top hat.
"Listen, you fuckers, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore. A man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is a man who stood up." - Robert DeNiro
Again, you're saying there is somrthing God can't do. So again, you are indicating God is not perfect while trying to say that he is. Can't have it both ways, bud.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
@zchmrkenhoff
To avoid massive quoting:
1) History is often biased and inaccurate, even worse there is no end to condradictory sources.
No doubt, I will read some sources, that as you say the Eastern Orthodox Church will be proven correct. However, equally as many sources would state the Catholic Church would be the true Christain faith.
Then we would have to discuss what sources were really valid, various newer divisions would provide there own religious texts, history or documents illustrating that they were correct.
In the end it would be a subjective matter, like philosophy unless one studied all of the texts, it would be hard to dissprove one over the other.
Someone who beleives Satire is right will argue that Nietzsche may be flawed in his views on being, yet how do you say one is more right than the other?
2) Regarding External Conflict vs. Internal Conflict, in some cases internal conflict will alone cause a country to collpase. However, this is not assured. The same would apply to external conflict.
Of course an external conflict that is defeat or repelled would pose no threat, hoewever the same is true for any internal strife, if internal differences are overcome/compromised/etc then it will no longer present issues. In both cases the conflict can return at a later time.
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My point with all this, is that as religion is a belief, its is subjective and based on perception, changes in human behavior/society/morals, each person has their own views on the truth, even in the same faith or even congregation . Thus, it is increasingly hard to use it to explain what is good or bad for society as a whole.
Deciding which faith is correct is in my view perhaps an impossible task, in the end it is simply arguing about shades of grey.
I put on my top hat.
lol zchmrkenhoff
You're burying yourself into a ditch with your attempts at trying to explain who God really is.
Keep doing it. I'll grab the popcorn and watch you sink further.
*kisses
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
/sarcasm
Yeah and Fundamentalist Christians have no public pull in the government with denying people their basic civil rights such as same sex marriages. Naw they dont have brainwash summer camps to teach kids extreme narrow mindeness. Fundamentalist Christians don't have those rehabitlization programs that parents force their gay children to attend where they have horrible things done to them in short of torture.
Yeah you fundementalists are very private. And you guys NEVER think your awesome rules should force society to revolve around them. I mean wow .... I know there aren't any fundamentlist lobbyists in DC and the Mormon church never ever fought hard to kill proposition 8.
/end sarcasm
As a very good friend of mine took a pic of herself with a clear message:
Maybe if you started to love people versus hate them, you may be a happier person.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
God's perfection is not defined by his ability to do unlimited things... he is restrained logically. If he is perfect, then he is unable to create something imperfect... everything he does is perfect. If you are all perfect, all powerful, and all good, then is it possible to create evil? No, you cannot, as that would violate your quality of being all good .The same goes for his perfection. If you are all perfect, yet all powerful, you cannot create something imperfect... as that would violate your condition of being perfect. Perfection does not "trump" all other qualities... as those qualities would not exist then. They are all equal... his being all powerful, all perfect, and all good are all part of his defining characteristics.
"Listen, you fuckers, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore. A man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is a man who stood up." - Robert DeNiro
"Listen, you fuckers, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore. A man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is a man who stood up." - Robert DeNiro
Nope. You can pretend that is happening however and that would work out for you... though that doesn't necessarily hold true now does it?
It's nice to imagine that God can be perfect yet at the same time create things that are imperfect... we might get a laugh out of such a silly contradiction... though to actually believe that he could do something like that shows a person's inability to use reason.
God is not a contradiction... he is bound by laws and logic as well. If God is all powerful, all good, and all perfect, then he is unable to create evil... it would violate his quality of being all good.
You can go ahead and try to explain how an all good being can create evil,,, though you would only "bury yourself into a ditch" by doing so.
How God does create evil, however, is through a buffer. One of his creations is able to do so.
"Listen, you fuckers, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore. A man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is a man who stood up." - Robert DeNiro
Marriage is a spiritual tradition binding a man and woman together in love eternally. Nobody is entitled to marriage... it is a privelage.
In order to fix marriage, a few steps must be taken:
The state and government must be completely removed from marriage. Married people receive no financial benefits or other privelages.
Separation of Church and State goes both ways... the Church is not able to tell the state what to do, and the State is not able to tell the Church what to do. Since it is wrong to marry any individuals other than a man and a woman, the Church would only marry those pairs.
The state, however, would recognize in all households that "two or more people are living together." Whether your are straight, bi, incest, gay, whatever... you are two people living together so the state recognizes it and gives you financial benefits for doing it.
The only people who are upset are religious people who want to control the state, and people living backwards lifestyles who want to control the church.
By the way, you should start learning some things. Christian Fundamentalism is a heretical branch of Christianity that in no way embodies the virtues, teachings, or tenants of the one, holy, apostlic, catholic Christian church.... your pointing a finger at me just reveals your ignorance in this matter.
Any Christian that attempts to use force in any regard is not embodying the principles of the religion and they therefore do not represent the faith.
The "Christians" you speak of come from a heretical and potential dangerous denomination called Protestantism... a school of Christian thinking that in no way whatsoever resembles the true Catholic Christian church which is slightly upheld by the Roman Catholic church and fully upheld in the Eastern Orthodox Church.
It is the duty of us to love all people... though I hate sin and evil, as any decent person should as well. If we are to lead lives of goodness then all sinful lusts, all backwards temptations must be countered with good reason and clear conscience... otherwise we are no more than animals.
"Listen, you fuckers, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore. A man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is a man who stood up." - Robert DeNiro
The only one "pretending" anything in this entire thread has been you.
I can't even argue with you anymore because, well, it's unfair for me to engage in a battle of wits against an unarmed person.
All I see from you is someone who plugs there ears screaming "LAAAAAA LLAAAAAA LAA LLAAAAAA LLALAAAAA!!!, I can't hear you!!!" while pronouncing that you are right and everyone else is wrong. So far, you haven't managed to get one person in this whole thread to take your side of the argument. Wonder how that could be possible when you are obviously the right one?
While I've enjoyed your trolling, I have now grown bored. Have a nice day.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
You might not realize it, but you are still pretending. You are pointing fingers and using insults to make yourself seem superior. You are pretending that I am not listening to the things that you are saying, even though it's clear throughout the various responses that I have made to you that I have addressed every single thing that you said.
Further, you are pretending that I am claiming to be right and that everyone else is wrong, even though I'm merely giving my opinion and defending it from a horde of people who are using insults and condesension to appear "better" than me. My opinion is just as uncertain as anyone's here... though try telling that to the people who scream "bigot" at anyone who opposes them and see what their response is.
It's not my responsibility to "convert" people to "my side" of the argument... you believe what you want to believe. However I won't sit idly as people flaunting backwardness attempt to make it seem like what they are doing is right and proper, and who further insult me for pointing out that that might not be so.
You are further pretending that I am trolling, even though if you have made the observation that the only people who are using insults and slander are people on "your side."
When a wounded animal runs out of escape routes, it usually finds itself trapped in the corner. With no sight for escape, it resorts to its primitive insincts and lashes out at what is cornering it and then darts out of the room with its tail between its legs. At least the animal had the etiquette to grant it's opposite a nice day.
"Listen, you fuckers, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore. A man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is a man who stood up." - Robert DeNiro
You are just another guy condemning someone for not sharing your godly ideals. And the fact that you think sexual promiscuity is something new shows that you desperately need to open a history book.. How can you hope for anyone to take you seriously with such ignorance?
O_o o_O
Keep Religion and Politics in the right forum please.