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surplus system explanation: totally, completly, absolutly absurd
arcenemy
Member Posts: 66
am i the only one that calls shenanigans on this?
lets see...this is what people thinks
So its like this, at the start of the week you begin playing Conjurer:
The first hr nets you 180% XP per mob.
Hour 2 ~ 170%
Hour 3 ~ 160%
Hour 4 ~ 150%
Hour 5 ~ 140%
Hour 6 ~ 130%
Hour 7 ~ 120%
Hour 8 ~ 110%
After 8 hrs of playing Conjurer you then only get 100% of normal XP and you can continue to play this class for as long as you want and never switch classes, and then after 7 days it will reset and the process starts all over again.
ok....how about at the start of the week you get 100% per mob, and then it dwindles by 6% every hour up to 52% minimum, and you have to wait?
So he reverses the situation and tells you that you were actually getting bonus exp?
how do i know it was a bonus?
how do i know that the first hour I wasnt getting the normal exp and it just decreases more and more?
lets think about this for a second, shall we? apparently this system was put in place to stop power players and keep casuals on equal foot ingame....seriously, what? how is THAT gonna do what they claim?
bonus exp will stop power players and help casuals keep on with them? is this opposites day?
So all things considered, we can look at it from both ends...its a bonus that works for 8 hours, or its a penaty that fully applies after 8 hours... how can we see what is what?
well, the answer is obvious. what does having 100% XP ingame means?
if the first hour means 80% extra XP, then it actually servers absolutly for nothing. Casuals and power players can play that same 8 hours and get that same extra bonus. Then power players will play for as long as they want and get 100% XP.
if we consider that 100% XP is what the game design considers "normal progression", then power players are seeing absolutly no impact to their hardcore gameplay, they are progressing faster than normal 8 hours, then normal for the 20, 30 or 40 more hours weekly that they play. Casuals will see the gap increasing faster
Now lets look it the other way, shall we?
if we consider that 180% XP (from now on will be called 100% XP) is what the game design considers "normal progression", then power players and casuals are playing for 8 hours on equal foot. But after that 8 hours power players will notice they are getting 50% less than what the game understands that is "normal XP". They have to devote double the time to get the XP that the game intends to be the "normal progression speed".
This obviously DOES work to tune down power players
and to those that think this is some sort of rested exp...it is not. not at all. why?
well, because of 2 glaring differences:
1) being logged out does not make any difference. there is no "rest", apparently you can play for as long as you want with 100% XP (or so they say) and then, comes next week, tadaaaa!! back to 180% bonus when you have rested nothing at all
2) related to 1. If someone spends the whole "80% bonus" the first day, it doesnt make any difference if he doesnt log in any other day for the next 6 days. Rested xp works daily, even hourly (you gain a tad bit of rested exp by even being out for 1 hours). Not with this system.
the fact that it forces people to wait a whole weekly cycle makes it blatantly clear its a restriction, not a boost
dunno what is more ridiculous, the explanation, or the fact that there are fanbois blind and gullible enough to buy such a worthless failed attempt at spin...
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
So you needed to make a 4th or 5th thread on it?
I'm gonna make a toon and call it "Sir Plusyecksby" in honor of all these threads.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Do yourselves a favor and plug " ?? " into google translate Japanese > English and see what comes up.
EDIT nvm won't display for everyone, suffice to say depending on how you translate one of the japanese characters for surplus (and there's a bunch), it comes up either as
Noun
1.Excess
2.Surplus
or
Adjective
1. Extra
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
They have sometin similar on FFXI, is called exp bands. Is a ring you buy that gives you exp bost for a limited time or so with X ammount of charges, expending conquest points. You can buy or recharge it everytime conquest resets ( 1 week i think it was ).
Is almost the same thin imo, you just dont have to buy the item, it comes with every class already.It worked fine on 11, i dont see whats the problem to see it on FFXIV, is almost the same thin.
Heres a thought don t play the game. Enough already on this crap. The system is fine and if you can t see it yet then maybe you should just step away from the computer and go outside. I ve never seen such uproar over nothing.
called you out on your flawed assumptions on another thread, did you really have to write it twice?
this time i'll just call you cynical and be done
You don't start anything with a surplus.
Nothing.
You don't earn it and the go to normal. You start normal and lose.
If you think >100% explains this system and makes it okay: I got a bridge for sale.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
it's bonus, because average play times are higher than 1 hour per week. for a 2 hours a day, average will be 125% per hour. still, power players will ALWAYS get ahead. just find your own sweet spot, and enjoy the ride.
If we have finally got the explanation right the surplus exp is superior to any bonus exp system i've seen.
Its 15 hours of bonus exp, 8 hours at max, per class per week.
18(classes) x 8(hours) = 144hrs possible at full surplus exp
18(classes) x 7(hours) = 126hrs possible at 100%~x (x being the base surplus exp)
that 270 hours a week of above normal exp which if right is quality awesomesauce
I actually like the sound of this. It's much better than the "fatigue" system. it's just like everyone getting reset experience at the same time. This is not an issue at all and in fact I kinda like it. *shrug* I'll take more exp for 8 hours each week
Listen.
I start FFXIV up and I'm level 1. I got my nifty little sword and I go hit something, anything and eventually kill it. I get 10 xp. I goof around for several hours and am still level 1 with my sword, and I go hit something and then it's worth 6 xp.
Did I use up all of my bonus? Or am I penelized for not switching to a rolling pin fast enough?
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Didn't it take like 2 weeks for WoW rested exp to fill up completely? And I don't remember it taking all that long to burn though a full deal of rested exp. 8 hours a week of double exp for each class sounds like a pretty good deal. Then having it scale back over another 7 hours rather than just dropping instantly to regular exp is even more of a bonus.
This is not a game development fail. A PR and translation fail perhaps but not a game fail.
All die, so die well.
It is god damn fatigue! They're..
It's the fatigue system with another name and an absurdly boosted way of explain it that's quite frankly a lie.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Ok so you know from the developer's side to get rid of this system for cry babies and balance the game they would have to cut xp gains in half and add your "rested" double xp gain bonus...... it's the same damn thing.....
My theme song.
Oh FFS youre complaining about XP?
Get a life. This is a video game. Just enjoy it if you intend on playing. Im not going to because it doesnt offer what I want in terms of features. But to cry because youre not getting all the twinked out XP you think you deserve?
Lame. Very lame.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
So now they just change the numbers to say that the lowest possible EXP you can get is 100% and you start diminishing from 180%? Do they think their consumers are that stupid?
Are they being serious right now?
Jesus christ. They really want their niche community.
PLEASE GO READ:
http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/11964-surplus-and-you-komoto-speaks/
AND GET OVER IT, THANKS.
...If they took out the bonus exp, you'd be crying over there is no bonus exp...get in the corner and suck on your thumb. I guess I'm finally at the age where people whining angers me. It's the way the game is, like it or not, play or don't play, stfu.
It's too bad you can't go back and play the old MUDs and early mid 90s mmos. You'd be having an orgasm over the speed games level now days...
Hey guys just wanted to chime in with real data from beta.
It is not time logged in, it appears to be time in combat. I spent over 30 hours on my Pugilist/Fisherman/Culinarian during beta in a week and never saw that 8 hour mark where surplus starts.
Basically as it stands you have 8-15 hours of in combat time to gain full benefits, and once you start seeing surplus it is smart to change class.
They are thinking of doing something with surplus XP, but are not sure.
They are tweaking the times and times related to group content.
They are still tweaking numbers/times/etc.
I do not think they are trying to pad the content, but instead give a way for casual-mid level gamers to keep up with the hardcore.
Hardcore can advance numerous classes, but someone playing 100 hours a week and someone playing 40 hours a week can both likely max out their progression in a class keeping their main classes on a level playing field.
The amount of time required to max this out in a class, a gathering profession, and a craft seems to be pretty high and I am not sure any players would actually max this out in all 3.
I am not a big fan of the system. I only play 20-40 hours a week and based on my beta play I never even hit the 8 hour threshhold where you start to see surplus. I am not sure why they want this exactly.
The only thing I can see coming out of this that would make me really happy is a reduction or inverse effect on surplus while grouped. They seem to reference it as being more realistic because in real life you have to take breaks from training something to really grow at it.
For your information this was a quote of a dev that makes Final Fantasy, be nice next time, and ask where that came from......
http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=23080
Honestly I think a large reason for this is to stop powerleveling services. They will be crushed by this. SE seems to be going out of their way to stop bots, farmers, and powerlevelers.
There is also a gathering/crafting thing like this in place so they can't sit and craft things for 22 hours a day.
I got a great idea...lets just let people with no lives play as much as they want and the rest of us will play when we can. It's not a PvP system they need to balance so WTF.
If they are worried about it becoming difficult to form groups, the Levelsync concept, with some tweaks could answer nicely.
Seriously, this feature just seems psychotic. It seems like nothing but punishment and i really am having a hard time seeing anything positive about it.
BTW, i am going to be a Casual Player.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
Good post and I know they SAY they want this, but if you think about it, this doesn't make ANY sense at all. Example:
Mr. Hardcore and Mr. Casual both start off with 8 hrs for the week of bonus exp.
Mr. Hardcore burns his off in one day and continues to play and join other ppl's leves because they still give CLASS POINTS for those special skills. (you know all those special skills you need 500 class points each to purchase from those NPCs on the avenue?)
Mr. Casual is only able to burn 6 hours off this week cause his boss has him working OT, his wife has a Honey Do list, and his Aunt Fru Fru just died in Singapore. So now he's two hours (and loads of NORMAL EXP) behind Mr. Hardcore after one week.
Next week, Mr. Hardcore met a few more Hardcores and they go out and burn out again in one day, continuing after its gone to get more Class Points for new skills.
Mr. Casual has to cut the grass, go out to dinner, play with his kids.. you know because he has "a life" right? So this week he was able to do only 5 hrs of his allotment. Now going into the next week he's even FURTHER behind Mr. Hardcore and his pals.
Face it, there is NO way SE can keep casuals up with H/Cs because both types get the same rate under this current system, but Mr. Casual never uses all of his nor does he do any "normal exp".
That part is a lie by SE or just severe simplistic thinking on their behalf. There is only two ways to keep hardcore and casual players close:
1. Penalize the hardcore player by taking away exp they earned.
2. Giving casual players ONLY a constant buff so they eventually catch up to hardcores while the hardcores DON'T recieve that same buff.
In this case, SE gives them BOTH the buff, lol.
The way SE has it, they both are getting the exact, same things.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I think if they were more open with the system (assuming your assessment is correct) and come out and stated that as their intention, they would get a much more positive response.
If implemented correctly, that would indeed detrement botters, farmers, & powerlevers. However, it's very difficult (nearly impossible) to implement features that hinder the aformentioned users, in a way that doesn't harm the playerbase as a whole. To be honest, as long as there is a market for such users, it's going to be very difficult to get rid of them.
Also, concider this. If that is part of the reason for the system. What's to stop these users from simply cycling out characters to battle the fatigue system? A lot of those companies / players either have multiple characters on their accounts for just that reason and/ or have multiple accounts for that reason. It would be really easy to circumvent such a system entirely through those means.