You tossed in all EQ-style of MMO's along with the rest of bunch, where EQ isn't a themepark, best description is it's 'oldschool'. As soon as you tossed in EQ as all MMO's that are as 'oldschool' as EQ, you limited your definition of sandbox MMO's to a very small range of MMO's.
All the other large MMO's besides EVE are a lot more themepark-like and/or like oldschool MMO's as EQ and DAoC, and far from being sandbox MMO's.
But keep dreaming and hoping, pal, maybe some day another large and successful full sandbox-like MMORPG comes along, next to all the EQ-style and themepark-inspired MMORPG's that will be released in the near future, that isn't a failure or small peanuts as the current sandbox MMO's. Because the current MMO market must suck for people that only enjoy the very small range of sandbox MMO's.
edit: oh, on top of that, you might want to read this thread. It's stated by a lot of actual players of FE: Fallen Earth is not a sandbox MMO, it's more 'oldschool', EQ-style kind of MMORPG.
Maybe in your love for sandbox MMO's and hatred of themepark and EQ-style of MMO's, your view of what sandbox is or not has gotten skewed, because it certainly isn't how other MMO gamers regard things.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes, yes I do. Old School SWG made me work, think and build a life online. Our guild went out and found the perfect point to develop a town. We made roads, shops, a town center...well a life! Many games now are just online games not rpgs. The depth of character has succumbed to quick profit and jump in fun. To develop a "toon" you must be able to change your appearance at a decent level, have some home and be able to tweak your toon to be different in skills so as to produce need. Cookie sutter games are easy to program, do art for and get out the door. Even the behemoth WoW bows to the need for in depth toon development. What a shame we waste so much time and money on substandard games. I have seen in the past 15 years a HUGE downturn in depth in games, rpgs and mmos.
Yes, yes I do. Old School SWG made me work, think and build a life online. Our guild went out and found the perfect point to develop a town. We made roads, shops, a town center...well a life! Many games now are just online games not rpgs. The depth of character has succumbed to quick profit and jump in fun. To develop a "toon" you must be able to change your appearance at a decent level, have some home and be able to tweak your toon to be different in skills so as to produce need. Cookie sutter games are easy to program, do art for and get out the door. Even the behemoth WoW bows to the need for in depth toon development. What a shame we waste so much time and money on substandard games. I have seen in the past 15 years a HUGE downturn in depth in games, rpgs and mmos.
That ability is still available in SWG - with all the issues it's caused for them, I doubt we'll see many MMOs follow their lead for years to come. I love the ability, but I also understand why it's a developers nightmare, too many players come and go in MMOs. I'm fine with instanced housing tbh.
As a real armed forces veteran, I see threads like this and cry... swg does not grant one veteran status. If anything, it makes you a fool for not spotting a horrible game a mile away.
i don't know what your armed forces history has anything to do with this, because the meaning of the word "veteran" is not military exclusive:
noun
veteran: a person who has had long service or experience in an occupation, office, or the like.
adj
veteran: experienced through long service or practice; having served for a long period.
in the case of SWG, the use of the word became common practice to distinguish between the original, pre-cu players to the new batch that came with the NGE.
anyone who understands this otherwise is either not informed of the issues surrounding that game or wants to give their own interpretation to the word.
veteran: a person who has had long service or experience in an occupation
experienced through long service or practice; having served for a long period.
This leads to the interesting follow-up conclusion that those SWG players who played SWG before as well as after NGE and those players who played for several years post-NGE are more SWG veteran than those claiming to be one, since players who quit when the NGE hit only played SWG for 2 years at most.
So, any current SWG player who've played SWG for more than 2 years are the real SWG vets, leading to the conclusion that there are far more players who are SWG vet that played post-NGE than there are players claiming to be SWG vet who quit with the NGE
Of course, this is based purely on the obvious logic of the definition as described above.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Personally I do worry as well. Some of the decisions made by the developers IE like all the companions looking and sounding the same most likely stem from the decision to make the game fully voiced. SWTOR maybe the fist and last game to fully voice the game for two reasons. One the cost which is a no brainier I bet that the cost of all the voice actors really pushes up the development cost of the game. Second fully voicing the game limits what you can do going forward Bioware will have to limit the variables like having a choice of companions for each class each new companion means another voice actor or the same one that you have to pay more $ to.
To sum up I worry most about how the voice acting will limit the creativity of the developer and the game will suffer from a lack of player creative choice.
veteran: a person who has had long service or experience in an occupation
experienced through long service or practice; having served for a long period.
This leads to the interesting follow-up conclusion that those SWG players who played SWG before as well as after NGE and those players who played for several years post-NGE are more SWG veteran than those claiming to be one, since players who quit when the NGE hit only played SWG for 2 years at most.
So, any current SWG player who've played SWG for more than 2 years are the real SWG vets, leading to the conclusion that there are far more players who are SWG vet that played post-NGE than there are players claiming to be SWG vet who quit with the NGE
Of course, this is based purely on the obvious logic of the definition as described above.
not sure calling yourself a vet gets you anything but more power to the people who do. I just don't input that into the conclusion when i look at how good/bad a game is.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
veteran: a person who has had long service or experience in an occupation
experienced through long service or practice; having served for a long period.
This leads to the interesting follow-up conclusion that those SWG players who played SWG before as well as after NGE and those players who played for several years post-NGE are more SWG veteran than those claiming to be one, since players who quit when the NGE hit only played SWG for 2 years at most.
So, any current SWG player who've played SWG for more than 2 years are the real SWG vets, leading to the conclusion that there are far more players who are SWG vet that played post-NGE than there are players claiming to be SWG vet who quit with the NGE
Of course, this is based purely on the obvious logic of the definition as described above.
Lemme get this right...anyone who has played SWG (no matter the 'version') for 2+ years is considered a "Vet"? That's how I read your post, and I can agree with that definition.
However, you're assuming that "far more" people have actually played NGE SWG for 2+ years than played pre-NGE for 2+ years. That's a number I find HIGHLY unlikely.
SoE claimed in 2005 that they had sold 1 million copies of the game. The assumed "high" for subs is around 400K subs (we know for sure they had 200k in 2004). My best guess is that SWG hovers around 8-12k subs these days, they've closed half their servers and need to close half again...I simply don't see how your assumption could possibly be accurate given the vast difference between pre-NGE numbers and current numbers.
Lemme get this right...anyone who has played SWG (no matter the 'version') for 2+ years is considered a "Vet"? That's how I read your post, and I can agree with that definition.
However, you're assuming that "far more" people have actually played NGE SWG for 2+ years than played pre-NGE for 2+ years. That's a number I find HIGHLY unlikely.
SoE claimed in 2005 that they had sold 1 million copies of the game. The assumed "high" for subs is around 400K subs (we know for sure they had 200k in 2004). My best guess is that SWG hovers around 8-12k subs these days, they've closed half their servers and need to close half again...I simply don't see how your assumption could possibly be accurate given the vast difference between pre-NGE numbers and current numbers.
The discussion isn't that interesting, because I was merely pointing out what interpreting the term 'vet' literally, meant in the case of 'SWG vet'.
But, here it goes, just for the sake of it
The assumed "high" is 300,000 subs, not 400k, for SWG.
When WoW and EQ2 came out, 1-1.5 year after SWG's launch, they started dropping off subs fast (Fall 2004)
This continued in the year after EQ2's and WoW's launch and before NGE until they'd already lost 100k+ subs (2005)
The NGE actually raised subs for a short time and pulled the number above 200k+ subs again (end of 2005)
Even if after that short period subs started to decline again, SWG post-NGE still had about 100k subs end of 2007.
Late of 2009 the SWG subs are estimated around 50k subs.
Therefor, it stands to reason that, using the definition of long service or experience for 'veteran', that the number of 'SWG vets' that played SWG both before AND after NGE combined with the number of 'SWG vets' that played SWG only post-NGE is larger than the number of 'SWG vets' that played SWG only before NGE.
Besides that, the post-NGE SWG vets also have more experience and a longer service being a SWG vet than the pre-NGE SWG vets.
But, that's when playing around with the actual definition for 'veteran', we all know that 'SWG vet' has surpassed any literal definition and that it has become a 'nom de guerre' and title of pride for a group of those pre-NGE SWG players
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I also used this site as a source for my assumption of current subs.
Given my knowledge of how that number is calculated, how easy it is to be on it and the fact that SoE allows up to 8 toons per account (2-3 per server) and mixed server play has become increasingly popular, I assure you that my guesstimate of 8-10k subs is much closer to accurate than a 50k guess.
Again, your definition of "Vet" is fine...but your assumption of post-NGE 2+ year players is off IMO. And really, it doesn't matter...I would consider myself a "Veteran" Mass Effect player and I've only invested maybe 2 months total gaming into the 2 games.
SWG sucked, get over it. The fact that people who think themselves special and call themselves "vets" hate this game is actually a good thing. If they liked it, then chances are it would suck as well.
@Tux: heh... it hasn't gotten you riled up, right, to have the term 'SWG vet' being used for post-NGE players who have played SWG far longer than the pre-NGE players, or is it to learn that there have been 100k-150k+ players still enjoying SWG post-NGE?
Anyway, here's my source. Stating that it was the CU and NGE that killed SWG is a limited vision. SWG was getting heavy hit by the launches of EQ2 and WoW. We had entire guilds on EQ2 that had moved from SWG to EQ2, and that was before any CU or NGE.
The reality was very simple: just as other MMO's, even without a CU and NGE and however much some SWG players might not like it, SWG was losing subs rapidly to newer MMORPG's like EQ2 and even more WoW.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
SWTOR is a much simpler game designed for a much younger audience with much more limited objectives than SWG used to be. If it fails, and there are people who think it may, then it will finally prove to LA that they have been making a serious error since 2005 in creating SW MMOs for casual audiences rather than player audiences. A bit like the comic industry in the 80s suddenly realising that the people who were actually buying and enjoying comics weren't twelve year olds but twenty plus year olds.
True. You know what I'd really like though? A Star Wars MMOFPS. That would be amazing. With the depth of the SWTOR Story and the mechanics of Call of Duty. Now I know about the Star Wars Mod for Modern Warfare, but it's just not enough.
@Tux: heh... it hasn't gotten you riled up, right, to have the term 'SWG vet' being used for post-NGE players who have played SWG far longer than the pre-NGE players, or is it to learn that there have been 100k-150k+ players still enjoying SWG post-NGE?
Are you implying I care WHO you call a "SWG Vet"? Do you think I even remotely give a crap WHEN someone played? If so, you couldn't be more mistaken.
I am stating that your numbers are wrong, nothing more. There are not 100k-150k people enjoying SWG right now, nor have there been for any 2+ year period since NGE.
Seriously, call every trial account a "vet" for all I care - names and titles mean nothing to me. But for your argument, you used inaccurate data to draw your conclusion.
Look, this is getting out of hand and frankly, it's getting annoying, at least to me.
I didn't say 100k-150k are enjoying SWG right now, stop twisting my words. I showed you my figures, the MMOdata charts, the info is as reliable as I find your info to be. I could if I dug deeper find the wikipedia sources and quotes from game business sources that confirm it, but I don't care to waste even more time to this.
Believe whatever you feel comfortable believing, if you have the need to believe my source is bad and yours is infallible, then feel free to do so.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I didn't say 100k-150k are enjoying SWG right now, stop twisting my words.
Originally posted by cyphers
@Tux: heh... it hasn't gotten you riled up, right, to have the term 'SWG vet' being used for post-NGE players who have played SWG far longer than the pre-NGE players, or is it to learn that there have been 100k-150k+ players still enjoying SWG post-NGE?
I didn't say 100k-150k are enjoying SWG right now, stop twisting my words.
Originally posted by cyphers
@Tux: heh... it hasn't gotten you riled up, right, to have the term 'SWG vet' being used for post-NGE players who have played SWG far longer than the pre-NGE players, or is it to learn that there have been 100k-150k+ players still enjoying SWG post-NGE?
I simply quoted your own words cyphers.
I see. Well, 'have been still enjoying SWG post-NGE' and 'right now' are two different meanings:
or to phrase 'have been 100k-150k+ players still enjoying SWG post-NGE' as it should be understood, 'there have been subsciber peaks of 100k-150k+ MMO gamers that still enjoyed SWG after the NGE hit'.
Once again, it wasn't the NGE that caused the decline of SWG subs, it was merely a reaction upon it, the rapid decline kicked in heavily when EQ2 and WoW hit the scene. Without those, there would probably never have been a NGE.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I didn't say 100k-150k are enjoying SWG right now, stop twisting my words.
Originally posted by cyphers
@Tux: heh... it hasn't gotten you riled up, right, to have the term 'SWG vet' being used for post-NGE players who have played SWG far longer than the pre-NGE players, or is it to learn that there have been 100k-150k+ players still enjoying SWG post-NGE?
I simply quoted your own words cyphers.
I see. Well, 'have been still enjoying SWG post-NGE' and 'right now' are two different meanings:
or to phrase 'have been 100k-150k+ players still enjoying SWG post-NGE' should be understood as 'there have been subsciber peaks of 100k-150k+ MMO gamers that still enjoyed SWG after the NGE hit'.
Are you serious? You are lucky if there is 10-20k ppl playing that game now, and btw I got the proof of how many active players there are. I'll post it shortly.
I'm so sick of these type of threads. Why can't the SWG pre cu faithful just get over it already. I really can't see why you guys are moaning about TOR, since it is a new SW mmo coming out.
I'm not afraid to say it , if you want to play SWG pre cu just head over to the damn EMU severs and you can live out your life as the best moisture farmer in the whole galaxy.
You guys are like a bunch of kids that has had their favorite toy taken away. Stupid and pathetic if you ask me.
Are you serious? You are lucky if there is 10-20k ppl playing that game now, and btw I got the proof of how many active players there are. I'll post it shortly.
Besides the fact that this discussion has gone way offtopic and become silly because of its triviality - I don't care one bit who calls themselves 'SWG vet' and how many players play SWG right now - I was talking about numbers of SWG players after the NGE hit, not right now.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Are you serious? You are lucky if there is 10-20k ppl playing that game now, and btw I got the proof of how many active players there are. I'll post it shortly.
Besides the fact that this discussion has gone way offtopic and become silly because of its triviality - I don't care one bit who calls themselves 'SWG vet' and how many players play SWG right now - I was talking about numbers of SWG players after the NGE hit, not right now.
Topic is a joke, and ironic to say the least... What makes me wanna cry is what SOE did to star wars , tbh. I don't cry, but I shake my head in shame and disbelief..
That all bounty hunters are evil and dressed like jangoo fett, all smugglers get standard issue wookies and correlian corvettes?
that troopers can only be good and dress like clones, while the sith troopers from the kotor games seem to have vanished.
why we all fight over hoth because it's a major strategic point and not just a place where a desperate semi crushed rebellion hides?
I have to agree that the idea of everyone having the same companion is a bit silly. However I'm not sure exactly how this would work in game. For example, does it mean that if a bunch of smugglers show up in the same cantina each of them will be accompanied by a copy of the same Wookie companion? What happens when two smugglers are in the same group and both decide to bring their companion along? Ah well, I'm sure someone here knows the answers.
The main worry I've got about TOR, is that the developers almost seem to be trying to control the players too much. Little things like picking our companions for us, or deciding for us what types of space battles we can engage in..these things get under my skin.
Sure in the movies you don't see Han Solo out in space just "dickin' around" as the head writer condescendingly put it. However the ability of someone like Han Solo to board the Falcon, and travel throughout the galaxy unrestrained for whatever reason he chose, was always implied in the films.
Did you do ANY research before you went ahead and posted? If you do any research or can click a couple times you would have read on ToR's main site that there are a lot of different companions for everyone not just one. You people do no research and post garbage. Since you are obviously too lazy to do some basic research ill copy pasta it for you.
"In Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, a variety of these Companion Characters will join your cause. Some will join you for adventure, some for greed, and some for motivations that will remain hidden until much further along in your adventure. The Companions run the gamut from intelligent droids to bizarre aliens, from an honorable princess to a roguish pirate, and each class has a completely unique set of Companions."
See there a set of companions you get to choose who joins you, just because you saw a screenshot of a smuggler with a wookie companion and made the assumption that thats all you get doesnt mean it is true. Do some research before you post complete crap.
Comments
You tossed in all EQ-style of MMO's along with the rest of bunch, where EQ isn't a themepark, best description is it's 'oldschool'. As soon as you tossed in EQ as all MMO's that are as 'oldschool' as EQ, you limited your definition of sandbox MMO's to a very small range of MMO's.
All the other large MMO's besides EVE are a lot more themepark-like and/or like oldschool MMO's as EQ and DAoC, and far from being sandbox MMO's.
But keep dreaming and hoping, pal, maybe some day another large and successful full sandbox-like MMORPG comes along, next to all the EQ-style and themepark-inspired MMORPG's that will be released in the near future, that isn't a failure or small peanuts as the current sandbox MMO's. Because the current MMO market must suck for people that only enjoy the very small range of sandbox MMO's.
edit: oh, on top of that, you might want to read this thread. It's stated by a lot of actual players of FE: Fallen Earth is not a sandbox MMO, it's more 'oldschool', EQ-style kind of MMORPG.
Maybe in your love for sandbox MMO's and hatred of themepark and EQ-style of MMO's, your view of what sandbox is or not has gotten skewed, because it certainly isn't how other MMO gamers regard things.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes, yes I do. Old School SWG made me work, think and build a life online. Our guild went out and found the perfect point to develop a town. We made roads, shops, a town center...well a life! Many games now are just online games not rpgs. The depth of character has succumbed to quick profit and jump in fun. To develop a "toon" you must be able to change your appearance at a decent level, have some home and be able to tweak your toon to be different in skills so as to produce need. Cookie sutter games are easy to program, do art for and get out the door. Even the behemoth WoW bows to the need for in depth toon development. What a shame we waste so much time and money on substandard games. I have seen in the past 15 years a HUGE downturn in depth in games, rpgs and mmos.
That ability is still available in SWG - with all the issues it's caused for them, I doubt we'll see many MMOs follow their lead for years to come. I love the ability, but I also understand why it's a developers nightmare, too many players come and go in MMOs. I'm fine with instanced housing tbh.
i don't know what your armed forces history has anything to do with this, because the meaning of the word "veteran" is not military exclusive:
noun
veteran: a person who has had long service or experience in an occupation, office, or the like.
adj
veteran: experienced through long service or practice; having served for a long period.
in the case of SWG, the use of the word became common practice to distinguish between the original, pre-cu players to the new batch that came with the NGE.
anyone who understands this otherwise is either not informed of the issues surrounding that game or wants to give their own interpretation to the word.
This leads to the interesting follow-up conclusion that those SWG players who played SWG before as well as after NGE and those players who played for several years post-NGE are more SWG veteran than those claiming to be one, since players who quit when the NGE hit only played SWG for 2 years at most.
So, any current SWG player who've played SWG for more than 2 years are the real SWG vets, leading to the conclusion that there are far more players who are SWG vet that played post-NGE than there are players claiming to be SWG vet who quit with the NGE
Of course, this is based purely on the obvious logic of the definition as described above.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Personally I do worry as well. Some of the decisions made by the developers IE like all the companions looking and sounding the same most likely stem from the decision to make the game fully voiced. SWTOR maybe the fist and last game to fully voice the game for two reasons. One the cost which is a no brainier I bet that the cost of all the voice actors really pushes up the development cost of the game. Second fully voicing the game limits what you can do going forward Bioware will have to limit the variables like having a choice of companions for each class each new companion means another voice actor or the same one that you have to pay more $ to.
To sum up I worry most about how the voice acting will limit the creativity of the developer and the game will suffer from a lack of player creative choice.
you are absolutely right.
ironic.
Can i say i'm a EQ1 vet then? pretty please :P
not sure calling yourself a vet gets you anything but more power to the people who do. I just don't input that into the conclusion when i look at how good/bad a game is.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Lemme get this right...anyone who has played SWG (no matter the 'version') for 2+ years is considered a "Vet"? That's how I read your post, and I can agree with that definition.
However, you're assuming that "far more" people have actually played NGE SWG for 2+ years than played pre-NGE for 2+ years. That's a number I find HIGHLY unlikely.
SoE claimed in 2005 that they had sold 1 million copies of the game. The assumed "high" for subs is around 400K subs (we know for sure they had 200k in 2004). My best guess is that SWG hovers around 8-12k subs these days, they've closed half their servers and need to close half again...I simply don't see how your assumption could possibly be accurate given the vast difference between pre-NGE numbers and current numbers.
The discussion isn't that interesting, because I was merely pointing out what interpreting the term 'vet' literally, meant in the case of 'SWG vet'.
But, here it goes, just for the sake of it
The assumed "high" is 300,000 subs, not 400k, for SWG.
When WoW and EQ2 came out, 1-1.5 year after SWG's launch, they started dropping off subs fast (Fall 2004)
This continued in the year after EQ2's and WoW's launch and before NGE until they'd already lost 100k+ subs (2005)
The NGE actually raised subs for a short time and pulled the number above 200k+ subs again (end of 2005)
Even if after that short period subs started to decline again, SWG post-NGE still had about 100k subs end of 2007.
Late of 2009 the SWG subs are estimated around 50k subs.
Therefor, it stands to reason that, using the definition of long service or experience for 'veteran', that the number of 'SWG vets' that played SWG both before AND after NGE combined with the number of 'SWG vets' that played SWG only post-NGE is larger than the number of 'SWG vets' that played SWG only before NGE.
Besides that, the post-NGE SWG vets also have more experience and a longer service being a SWG vet than the pre-NGE SWG vets.
But, that's when playing around with the actual definition for 'veteran', we all know that 'SWG vet' has surpassed any literal definition and that it has become a 'nom de guerre' and title of pride for a group of those pre-NGE SWG players
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Here's my source for my numbers and a copy paste from there:
Subscriber numbers
Based on NPD figures as of February 2004, SWG sold more than 400,000 boxed copies at retail for a total initial revenue of over $18 million. Sony Online Entertainment confirmed in March 2004 that there were well over 200,000 monthly subscribers making it the 2nd largest MMORPG in North America.GameSpy.com - Article The company later reported in 2004 that they had 250,000 subscribers. Article : Corpnews Error In August 2005, Sony Online Entertainment reported that they had now sold 1,000,000 boxed copies of the game.Star Wars Galaxies sales top a million units // News // GamesIndustry.biz Media sources reported that the subscriber numbers have fallen substantially since the release of the CU and the NGE.Star Wars Galaxies : Pursuit of a Mythical Audience - Star Wars Galaxies for PC at MMORPG.COM Virtual Worlds #7: When Galaxies Implode - Video Game Feature - Yahoo! Video Games In early 2006 after the NGE, allegedly "hacked" numbers purported to show that only 10,363 subscribers were playing on a particular Friday night. The President of Sony Online Entertainment, John Smedley, denied that subscriptions had fallen this low:
I also used this site as a source for my assumption of current subs.
Given my knowledge of how that number is calculated, how easy it is to be on it and the fact that SoE allows up to 8 toons per account (2-3 per server) and mixed server play has become increasingly popular, I assure you that my guesstimate of 8-10k subs is much closer to accurate than a 50k guess.
Again, your definition of "Vet" is fine...but your assumption of post-NGE 2+ year players is off IMO. And really, it doesn't matter...I would consider myself a "Veteran" Mass Effect player and I've only invested maybe 2 months total gaming into the 2 games.
@Tux: heh... it hasn't gotten you riled up, right, to have the term 'SWG vet' being used for post-NGE players who have played SWG far longer than the pre-NGE players, or is it to learn that there have been 100k-150k+ players still enjoying SWG post-NGE?
Anyway, here's my source. Stating that it was the CU and NGE that killed SWG is a limited vision. SWG was getting heavy hit by the launches of EQ2 and WoW. We had entire guilds on EQ2 that had moved from SWG to EQ2, and that was before any CU or NGE.
The reality was very simple: just as other MMO's, even without a CU and NGE and however much some SWG players might not like it, SWG was losing subs rapidly to newer MMORPG's like EQ2 and even more WoW.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
True. You know what I'd really like though? A Star Wars MMOFPS. That would be amazing. With the depth of the SWTOR Story and the mechanics of Call of Duty. Now I know about the Star Wars Mod for Modern Warfare, but it's just not enough.
Are you implying I care WHO you call a "SWG Vet"? Do you think I even remotely give a crap WHEN someone played? If so, you couldn't be more mistaken.
I am stating that your numbers are wrong, nothing more. There are not 100k-150k people enjoying SWG right now, nor have there been for any 2+ year period since NGE.
Seriously, call every trial account a "vet" for all I care - names and titles mean nothing to me. But for your argument, you used inaccurate data to draw your conclusion.
Look, this is getting out of hand and frankly, it's getting annoying, at least to me.
I didn't say 100k-150k are enjoying SWG right now, stop twisting my words. I showed you my figures, the MMOdata charts, the info is as reliable as I find your info to be. I could if I dug deeper find the wikipedia sources and quotes from game business sources that confirm it, but I don't care to waste even more time to this.
Believe whatever you feel comfortable believing, if you have the need to believe my source is bad and yours is infallible, then feel free to do so.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I simply quoted your own words cyphers.
I really cant see where are the 150$millions.....
I see. Well, 'have been still enjoying SWG post-NGE' and 'right now' are two different meanings:
or to phrase 'have been 100k-150k+ players still enjoying SWG post-NGE' as it should be understood, 'there have been subsciber peaks of 100k-150k+ MMO gamers that still enjoyed SWG after the NGE hit'.
Once again, it wasn't the NGE that caused the decline of SWG subs, it was merely a reaction upon it, the rapid decline kicked in heavily when EQ2 and WoW hit the scene. Without those, there would probably never have been a NGE.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Are you serious? You are lucky if there is 10-20k ppl playing that game now, and btw I got the proof of how many active players there are. I'll post it shortly.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I'm so sick of these type of threads. Why can't the SWG pre cu faithful just get over it already. I really can't see why you guys are moaning about TOR, since it is a new SW mmo coming out.
I'm not afraid to say it , if you want to play SWG pre cu just head over to the damn EMU severs and you can live out your life as the best moisture farmer in the whole galaxy.
You guys are like a bunch of kids that has had their favorite toy taken away. Stupid and pathetic if you ask me.
Besides the fact that this discussion has gone way offtopic and become silly because of its triviality - I don't care one bit who calls themselves 'SWG vet' and how many players play SWG right now - I was talking about numbers of SWG players after the NGE hit, not right now.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Topic is a joke, and ironic to say the least... What makes me wanna cry is what SOE did to star wars , tbh. I don't cry, but I shake my head in shame and disbelief..
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Did you do ANY research before you went ahead and posted? If you do any research or can click a couple times you would have read on ToR's main site that there are a lot of different companions for everyone not just one. You people do no research and post garbage. Since you are obviously too lazy to do some basic research ill copy pasta it for you.
"In Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, a variety of these Companion Characters will join your cause. Some will join you for adventure, some for greed, and some for motivations that will remain hidden until much further along in your adventure. The Companions run the gamut from intelligent droids to bizarre aliens, from an honorable princess to a roguish pirate, and each class has a completely unique set of Companions."
See there a set of companions you get to choose who joins you, just because you saw a screenshot of a smuggler with a wookie companion and made the assumption that thats all you get doesnt mean it is true. Do some research before you post complete crap.