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I miss the days of the immersion and community!
Bravnik
Member UncommonPosts: 158
I know most of you have no idea what I mean by that statement. To you the community is just the forums you go to or your close friends online or your guild and immersion is nothing more to you than entering an instance.
Im talking the immersion and community that I knew in my first MMO which was EQ. In the days of the old EQ you knew most of the people on the server. Hell you knew most of them by sight because not everyone looked the same. You had lists of Druids and Wizards to get ports from and lists of Clerics and Necros to get a Rez from. Death was something to fear as well. Not only because you lost EXP but because you could potentially lose your body and everything on it. Your in game reputation made or broke you in the old EQ thus you made a conscious effort to play better and to assist others more. If you were a retarded player everyone knew it and you could find yourself treated as such.
In the old days there were no auction houses. Sure an AH makes it easy but let me tell you easy is the best way to kill the community and immersion of a game. I can't tell you how special the days were when you ran through Eastern Commons and the people were actively hawking their wears. The AH literally killed that part of EQ and made buying stuff so generic. The easier certain parts of the game are the less immersion there is. The game becomes just that, a game. Something you kill time with and nothing more. I'm not talking a game like that here, EQ was more of a family and that is what I miss.
I remember when getting items really meant something. Like when I completed the quests for my class armor for my Shaman. It was an epic quest and I was so proud to have the complete set. Nothing was handed to me and I earned what I had. Don't even mention how proud I was when I got my Shaman Epic.....OMG.
I would love to see a modern game bring back certain things that made EQ special. I would love to see classes that port again and no easy travel. I would love to see a game were your corpse just didn't respawn and you had to actually go on a corpse run. I would love to see a game that had Risk vs Reward again and what you owned you earned and was not handed to you on a silver platter. I would love to not see everyone walking around looking exactly the same and by sight you know what it is a player is wearing and what effort they went through to get it.
There has to be a way to bring back a non-instanced game with no instant travel or AH. Let the community figure out how to sell items as it promotes immersion and community. Let the people share buffs within limits. Figure out a way to put a timer on bosses in the game. Maybe a quest that grants a trigger item to a GUILD and not a person and have it on a timer for activation. Let us figure out how to get to point B from point A on our own. Give us plenty of quests and cut out the linier game play. Give me a world that is real that you can access at level 1 if you're not afraid to die. Give me a game that has Risk vs Reward. Give me a world were everyone does not look the same. Give me a world that is free of PVP and is balanced around Risk vs Reward and off of PVE. This allows the classes to be original.
Do all this while bringing in the new stuff from current MMO's that enhance the immersion and don't detract from it. Things such as large amounts of quests. Tradeskills that matter. NPC's that interact with voice. Fantastic graphics. Open worlds with lots to do. But implement these things with care as to how they effect the immersion and the community rather than catering to the short attention spans of the casual player. Put the community above your greed.
In other words, create for me and those like me a world that is alive that I can spend a few hours a day totally immersed in. Create a world and not just another game.
Thanks for reading.
Comments
I missed the days of immersion and community, because I started playing MMORPGs about six years too late.
/self_pity off
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I heard FF XIV has lot's of immersion and community just like Ff XI still is very immersive and has awesome community.
I aswell miss the old EQ days, actually everyday i consider going back. If you ever find that game let me know.
im currently trying out eve to see if i can get that immersion
It's the fault of guilds and just incompetence on the part of the developers.
Guilds and ties are created before the game even goes live.
It's like going to a country and never speaking to anyone but your friends from your own country, you experience nothing.
EQ and DAoC had no guilds to start with, many players joined without guilds.
I'm super disappointed that games are so shallow right now, FFXIV and RIFT have a bad community.
Sometimes I wonder if this is it for MMO, if no new MMO can capture the feel of community and immersion again, maybe it's over, maybe we were just a fluke from the past that doesn't come again, it's been almost 15 years since EQ came out, lol, maybe it only happens once.
You just described Darkfall (besides the part about PVE only . .. Vanguard was an awesome game and I think it may still be active and was closest thing to EQ and has PVE only). There is no easy travel in the largest seamless no-instanced open-world (takes like 6 hours to walk from one corner of the main continent to the other). There are no invisible walls and everything that you can see in the distance you can touch (besides the sky). If you die than all of your items are left on your corpse so there is definitely risk vs reward. Everything worn can be seen from far away and identified by those who are familiar with different types of gear. There are no auction houses and the economy is controlled by players. Many great buffs to chose from. Bosses are kind of timed since they don't want to spawn sometimes . .. haha. Dynamic Lore Events are sometimes aimed to please certain styles of clans it seems: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOj3vWJI3XU&feature=player_embedded more info here: http://www.darkfallonline.com/bloodscrolls/index.html
Getting from point A to point B can take all day sometimes (the world is so huge that I have been playing for 18 months and still havent seen many of the dungeons, cities, and unique areas and it all looks hand-crafted and beautiful) . .. they keep adding more quests before I have the time to finish the current ones. There are no level restrictions (so if you wanted to check it out my GF and I would be happy to group with you so let us know). This week the patch will have a total PVE revamp (the PVE in Darkfall feels Epic compared to other games imo because the mob AI makes the monsters feel real and the style of combat is really fun once you get used to it) with treasure maps, new-friendly dungeons in safer areas, new monsters and graphics and animations http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gjn9U0hLcw with environmental sounds!
I am mostly excited that they are working on mobs that skill up until they are powerful enough to raid player made holdings! That sounds coool . .. I love any excuse that I can get to use the ramparts and cannons/flamethrowers in player cities.
Reasons that I love Darkfall more than EQ:
- Insane adrenaline rush at times
- No floating names and numbers so I feel more immersed and things seem more real
- Combat (EQ had great combat for its time but after all of these EQ-clones I am getting sick of it and think that it is time to move on . .. actually I absolutely hated the controls at first but glad that I gave it a chance.)
- Harder
- PVP involving player holdings, naval combat, siege warfare, mounted combat, cannons, tanks, flamethrowers, etc.
Anyways . .. I am really excited! Can you tell? Coming out next week too.
Have you tried Vanguard? It does have fast travel and auction houses but the crafting is really fun and diplomacy is cool too but if you can stomach occasional PVP (its not often) than I definitely recommend checking out Darkfall. I play with some who don't like to PVP but play for the PVE and you may find others like-minded in roleplayer places like this: http://www.mmorp.org
There are a few things coming out that have many of the features that you are looking for but nothing with all of them so you will have to make sacrifices somewhere. Long live the original EQ though . ... nothing else will ever be quite like that. I can still hear those damn skeletons laughing still LOL grrRrrrrrRRrrrrRRR! : )
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
I'm not sure if the guilds are to blame. I think the companies are more to blame as instead of building a world they simply want to build a game that caters to the casual player and the only goal being getting the most subs they can and holding them as long as they can.
EQ went down hill when SOE got involved. The implemented the first instances as well as the AH and quick travel. The reason being they wanted to get those subs that didn't have time to sit in EC and sell their wares or run through 3 zones to get somewhere.
I personally think that giving free travel really is what made the biggest impact on the immersion of the game. It made it where you could go anywhere with no help at all. You didn't fear running through certain zones. I remember having to run from Halas to Freeport as a lvl 10 toon. You talk about a high! There were so many zones to fear and fear you did because if you died in a bad place you better know someone who can get your body. I remember sitting at the zone line of that one zone waiting for daylight because to go through at night was suicide (Forget the zone name now). Ah those were the days.
SOE changed all that and I will never forgive them for that. Not to mention all the other MMO's they ruined.
Are they currently not working on a new version of Everquest that should be more like the original game just with todays graphics and some mechanic changes?
Great post btw
"i'm a leaf on the wind watch how i soar"
I blame forums more than guilds.
People go to forums and find out everything about a game before they even play it. They already know the answer to the puzzles, where to go on the quests, and who to talk to to uncover every secret.
Kinda takes the adventure out of it.
and if you don't play that way, you're considered a noob, and not fit to group with.
I miss Anarchy Online's 2003 community, before trolling and endless memes really saturated games. AO wasn't even that bad in 2005 (not counting the incessant Chuck Norris jokes).
But then, something really awful happened. And it wasn't just in AO. Far from it. And now the only game I've found so far where it doesn't exist is Fallen Earth, and that's probably because there's no global chat. I can deal with no global chat, but sadly, FE forces me to quest, which I just can't cope with.
So yes, I miss it. I wasn't a role player, but trolls in chat still break immersion, and obviously, trolls make for a lousy community.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Immersion and community have been replaced with quests and shiney-flashy things.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I hear rumors and I sure hope so but I will not hold my breath as it is SOE. They promise 7 virgins and bliss but you end up getting your ass blown up for nothing and going to hell and get ass raped 7 times a day instead
In other words, I will believe it when I see it.
And thanks!!!!
And people who cannot be bothered to type out full sentences let alone words...
And instanced everything...
And players with attention spans that make kittens look good...
And twitch based playing which leaves less time for chatting,,,
And leveling that means nothing compared with endgame...
And death penatlies which also mean little...
And grumpy ole players making the new kids go Lulz RP everytime somone mentions a piece of lore...
And internet sites which allow you to look up every quest and map in the game taking out the fun...
I am in your boat and have also lost faith in SOE and do not seeing the next EQ being like the first one. Vanguard was suppose to be the next original EQ. I remember my brother hyping me up about it being more like the original EQ than EQ2 was (which turned out to be true) but they release the game too early and did not provide a large enough staff to support it . .. when I was in beta it was very exciting because there was no quick travel at all and no instances with an original EQ feel to it (not as bad of a death penalty though with auction houses). When it was released most of the quests were broken so it became the next never quest instead and it was so laggy that I could not enter some of the cities. Some of the brilliant minds who created the original EQ put a lot of work into Vanguard and the main reason that we were so excited for it was because the DEVs were said to have rights over SOE with how they were going to run the game (so we were basically promised that it would not be dumbed down like EQ2 was).
I hear that the next EQ next will be played from a console . .. wtf?
SOE abandoned the original EQ and I think it is dead forever because it would only satisfy a niche market these days . ..
: /
I mean does anyone have any indication that the next EQ will be anything like the original? It seems to me that they think that they tried to recreate the original already with Vanguard and will not try it again.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Oh well some Soe (enough for me already) stated that it might be more in charge with Everquest 1 in terms of zones. They didn't say it will be as challenging and community driven as the first one was (indeed very sad I know). Even if Soe would promise it I'll still hold mybreath till 2 - 3 months are release. They somehow managed to give all their games things like mini NGE's so though call yet.
I fully agree with you OP I want the gold old days back. Sadly Vanguard could have been all we hoped fore, just another year or maybe two and this game would have been become easily our home. Aion had some good things such as open elite areas, but overall the world has been too small (very sad).
Like I said, its time for a MMORPG cataclysm there are just too many games outthere that aren't MMORPGs at best they are MMOs...
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Vanguard would have been so badass if they invested more money into it so that it was playable at release.
People do not put up with pre-ordering a game that is not playable. I played the game for years and had a great time but I do understand why so many people left at the beginning . .. even with top-notch PC you could not walk around some of the cities because the lag was too bad. One time it took me about 10 minutes just trying to enter a door because my charcter kept warping around and it took them a year to fix that.
If they waited until it was ready (which SOE obviously did not care about doing) it could have turned out being the next EQ and instead of people leaving and adding quick-travel and fixing stuff that should have already been fixed before you started playing they could have worked on more expansions and raids and stuff which would have kept the population healthy and the game growing into the next true successor to EQ.
Even Darkfall (with as much fail of a release that it had) felt like the release was more successful and that is extremely sad. I cannot really think of a game that was more broken during release.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Even just the whole traveling thing has ruined these games IMO. The fact you no longer need to spend time traveling in these games have made the worlds seem 200x smaller... and i know a lot of these games will state "our MMO's world is HUGE and VAST" okay maybe you have alot of zones and dungeons... but its not a world any more its just a bunch of individual zones that feel clunky and just different levels rather than actual places in this fantasy world... it makes the game seem smaller. I wish they would understand that and make a good game. I've been out of MMO's because of things like this. They aren't the same at all... and the only thing i am considering right now is going back to EQ when they release the new time locked progression server later this year or early next after the next expan comes out...
The old rose-tinted glasses perspective. Especially when it comes to immersion.
As much as I miss some of the times I had in past games, this is our community now. You and I are part of it for better or worse. As easy as it is to be pessimistic, I can't help but think that at least there's plenty of room for improvement. Perhaps one day there will be no Us vs. Them and we will all be able to see the community as a bigger picture.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
All SOE needs to do is copy and paste the original EQ quests and world into a DX-11 environment, update the combat mechanics a bit and they have a winner. All of the game rules then were great. Grinding dungeon/camp areas with others. Death penalty and corpse recovery requirement. High level mobs walking around in lower level areas at times. Training! No quest location indicators and only hints about where to go to find your quest goal. Special class abilities that others needed you for in social areas (4 hour buffs, teleports) Dungeon crawls where mobs respawn behind you. Gauntlet areas that you had to travel through in order to get to your group. The gauntlet mobs were deadly.
All of those things were at the core and forced people to seek others for help, whether it be questions in global chat, lining up for camping groups, retrieving your corpse, etc. It is suprising how almost all of these elements are all but completely removed from today's MMO's.
Hmm, no.. I really don't think that is the case. Nobody is saying any particular game was flawless. That isn't the point here.
Because few wants them?
I, for one, won't play a game that needs corpse run, and horrible grinding if you die, or have to camp the boss with 50 other people.
That can be a part of it....but I also feel having an open game world, with little to no instancing helps to build communities as well. Forced dependancies on traders/docs/ents is simply overkill.
I have all the time in the world, and there is no way I would play another game as unforgiving as EQ1 was. Sitting at your PC for over 24 hrs straight for a mob....or up all night cause you wiped entering Hate Plane just isnt going to cut it these days.
Waiting for your body was just part of it....then you are talking wasted hrs on exp lost. EQ was brutal at times. Even worse for those few playing on PVP servers.
If I was designing a game, I would go with the open world/minimal instances. I would also create social hubs. Areas where various games/contests could be found. Make them optional, but give incentive to hang out.
Best of the best tournaments, with random drawings for those observing and things like that. You get the people together, and yet you arent forcing them to do it.
Sure beats being out adventuring, and realizing you need to stop everything cause your battery needs recharging. All that does is pizz folks off.
Notice.....Any devs using my ideas, are welcome to them, for the cost of a new gaming PC. Not a cheap arse model either :P
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
That was because I decided against opening an EVE account.
Had I joined EVE, I would of had to of kicked every ones arse single handedly with my nOOb char. Game would of then had to of been shut down.
So when you go to bed tonight, remember to thank God that I took mercy on your game. /flex
OK OK....I would of gotten my arse handed to me. So what....I am still purtier than the rest of ya
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.