May haps I am easy to impress or my views are obscured, but I am confused. I keep seeing a lot of people causing all kinds of grief about this game. I haven't played in the beta (and I remember the fiasco that day was. I rofl'd at all the QQ posts), but unlike most posts I keep reading, I am steadily increasing in excitement with every new press release or leak.
Thats why I am asking, did I miss something? Or are people just causing problems? I technically could find something to get angry about (I was told you could tame Rancors in Star Wars Galaxies! Why not in this game! :O ), but the game looks good. Or maybe I am blinded by the glow of lightsabers and blasters (in which case, those bright lights will blind me soon! X_X ).
/discuss
1. This is NOT a remake of SWG. There, before NGE, a Creature Handler could tame a Rancor. And yes, it was awesome! But there are no Creature Handlers in SWTOR... so why would you be able to tame a Rancor?
2. It seems allot of people really want a Star Wars Themed, sandbox game like SWG. Also they want to be an all-powerful sith, sort of like Starkiller is in the Force Unleashed. Plus they also "must have" Complete Open World PvP where they can run around, like packs of dogs, and kill EVERYTHING! In short, they want it to be a "Star Wars MMO" version of GTA4... *rolleyes*
Personally, I have really enjoyed BioWare's other RPGs. I have seriously played Mass Effect through so many times I've lost count. So I'm familiar with how they like to make their games, and how they tell stories. That said I think its reasonable for me to expect that I will enjoy SWTOR immensely. If for no other reason than the fact that I will be able to play one of their RPGs with some of my friends.
Other than that I am determined to withhold judgement until after I have some first hand experience. And YES I do believe that the SWTOR forums are inhabited by some really nasty Trolls...
If you rub the hype sand out of your eyes, things don't look that exciting for SWoTR actually. For one, it's been in development for a long time, and still has time to go. The game is going to look old (in comparison) right out of the gate at this point. It's unlikely they'll do an overhaul of the tech behind it any time soon, either because it can't be done, or because they simply don't want to (the overly simplistic art style is pretty obivously to keep specs down and go for a wide audience, specifically the WoW crowd, who have lower system specs on average).
Look aside, you also have the obscene amount of money being poured into this game. Lets say it pulls a Warhammer, and for one reason or another people bail after the first two to three months. The FIRST thing EA is going to do, is use this as an excuse to implement the microtransactions they've been wanting all along. This is assuming they don't just dump them on anyway on top of the subscription (likely). Either way, expect them to go F2P and further degrade the game to cover costs if things go south.
More importantly though, it just doesn't look like a good MMO. Bioware is great at making single player games, but they have no idea what they're doing with an MMO yet, and they're modeling themselves off the worst possible canidate (at least, if you don't want WoW in space). At best, we're going to see a co-op version of KoTOR which would be fine, if we weren't being milked for a monthly fee on it. Additionally, the look and feel of the game already elicit groans. Everything seems horribly overwrought, as though they're trying WAY too hard to push the "It's STAR WARS everybody! Look! Starrr warrrrrs". Right now I full expect to see Ewoks running around with double bladed lightsabers that have blasters attached to them while wearing boba fett helms availble from the Bioware store for a mere 500 Bioware points!
Yeah, the game is going to be polished as fuck, but a polished turd is still a polished turd. Things are really considerably less rosey when you look at it realistically, and honestly, I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed/pissed when the game actually hits.
Firstly its "A polished turd is still a turd".
Secondly if you think this game looks remotely like WoW, go to the website look at all the information, videos etc. Then other websites with interviews, videos and so on. Game is very different to WoW and i mean a great deal. Look past the basic gameplay and you might actually see it.
A lot of people hyped for the game are keeping up with information and videos. We are seeing first hand how systems work so you do get a pretty big feel for how the game will turn out. Some will be disappointed thats for sure, people tend to expect way to much. Some people are already disappointed because of this.
By the way, the graphics really aren't that bad. People that complain about them have really hit rock bottom and can't find anything else to complain about.
Originally posted by Cannyone Originally posted by Koujow May haps I am easy to impress or my views are obscured, but I am confused. I keep seeing a lot of people causing all kinds of grief about this game. I haven't played in the beta (and I remember the fiasco that day was. I rofl'd at all the QQ posts), but unlike most posts I keep reading, I am steadily increasing in excitement with every new press release or leak. Thats why I am asking, did I miss something? Or are people just causing problems? I technically could find something to get angry about (I was told you could tame Rancors in Star Wars Galaxies! Why not in this game! :O ), but the game looks good. Or maybe I am blinded by the glow of lightsabers and blasters (in which case, those bright lights will blind me soon! X_X ). /discuss
...Plus they also "must have" Complete Open World PvP where they can run around, like packs of dogs, and kill EVERYTHING!...
More like bunch of little puppies barking their high pitch voices...
The truth of the matter is the mmorpg community is a pretty tough sell as is and let's face it we tend to march to the beat of a different drummer as evidenced by the fact that a sequel to a game many hardly accepted is pretty much the savior of all mmorpg's (GW2).
What I take solice in is the simple fact that the general arm chair developers who tend to offer up opinions on this game simply do not dictate the fate of the mmorpg genre, by and large WOW is considered the anti christ here but that hasn't hurt the growth and development of that game at all.
I don't like WOW so am often a bit apprehensive about comparing the two but let's face it WOW is a game that is pleasing it's customer base and finding a game like that is more important to me than being right about phantom debates so I can live with the direction being taken by BW.
We dont hate WoW mate we hate Clones and playing WoW in diffrent clothes since 2004... Not mush if anything has happend in the genre since 2004... All mayor games have been copy cats of WoW. We are tired we a fed up we dont want to play any more Tank and spank and throw in a few heals!
And star wars TOR looks to be just another F.... ing clone... Shit game !
The truth of the matter is the mmorpg community is a pretty tough sell as is and let's face it we tend to march to the beat of a different drummer as evidenced by the fact that a sequel to a game many hardly accepted is pretty much the savior of all mmorpg's (GW2).
What I take solice in is the simple fact that the general arm chair developers who tend to offer up opinions on this game simply do not dictate the fate of the mmorpg genre, by and large WOW is considered the anti christ here but that hasn't hurt the growth and development of that game at all.
I don't like WOW so am often a bit apprehensive about comparing the two but let's face it WOW is a game that is pleasing it's customer base and finding a game like that is more important to me than being right about phantom debates so I can live with the direction being taken by BW.
We dont hate WoW mate we hate Clones and playing WoW in diffrent clothes since 2004... Not mush if anything has happend in the genre since 2004... All mayor games have been copy cats of WoW. We are tired we a fed up we dont want to play any more Tank and spank and throw in a few heals!
And star wars TOR looks to be just another F.... ing clone... Shit game !
EA SUCKS!!!
I'm confused...
You don't hate WoW, so am I safe assuming you enjoy and play WoW?
And I'm sorry, but the term "WoW clone" when referring to this game just makes ZERO sense to me. Sci-fi is not dwarf and warlock 'fantasy'. The two may use similar combat roles, but that sure as hell didn't start with WoW. That argument is as stupid as complaining that all FPS games were DOOM 3D clones.
The truth of the matter is the mmorpg community is a pretty tough sell as is and let's face it we tend to march to the beat of a different drummer as evidenced by the fact that a sequel to a game many hardly accepted is pretty much the savior of all mmorpg's (GW2).
What I take solice in is the simple fact that the general arm chair developers who tend to offer up opinions on this game simply do not dictate the fate of the mmorpg genre, by and large WOW is considered the anti christ here but that hasn't hurt the growth and development of that game at all.
I don't like WOW so am often a bit apprehensive about comparing the two but let's face it WOW is a game that is pleasing it's customer base and finding a game like that is more important to me than being right about phantom debates so I can live with the direction being taken by BW.
We dont hate WoW mate we hate Clones and playing WoW in diffrent clothes since 2004... Not mush if anything has happend in the genre since 2004... All mayor games have been copy cats of WoW. We are tired we a fed up we dont want to play any more Tank and spank and throw in a few heals!
And star wars TOR looks to be just another F.... ing clone... Shit game !
EA SUCKS!!!
I'm confused...
You don't hate WoW, so am I safe assuming you enjoy and play WoW?
And I'm sorry, but the term "WoW clone" when referring to this game just makes ZERO sense to me. Sci-fi is not dwarf and warlock 'fantasy'. The two may use similar combat roles, but that sure as hell didn't start with WoW. That argument is as stupid as complaining that all FPS games were DOOM 3D clones.
Yes people often become confused...
WoW is not a bad game, saying so would be stupid, Do I play WoW? No! Havent since 2006... Why? because I felt that I played it enough... It dident feel new or fun anymore. Same reason I stoped playing Linage2 and Doac... and picked up WoW. The diffrence though is that Linage2 and Doac are way diffrent then WoW and they are way diffrent then one another.
Warhammer And Aoc and Champions online and Bla bla bla Rest of games made after 2004, When WoW became a hit, ALL resemble it to closly If you ask me. I personaly feel that after playing them a few hours I know everything there is to know about them... Its like you get this déjá vu effect.. I have just Tanked and spanked enough to last me a lifetime.
Now we take EVE since I started in 2004 It still feels fresh and new and fun? Why ? because its player controled .. I have played chess for the last 25 years also and It still feels fresh... Each game is diffrent in its own way.
TOR is a clone because it has quest, Because it has Mobs to kill, Because its not in space but on the planets. Because it looks and probably playes like all the other MMOS after 2004. Its like developers have stoped thinking and only look towards Implementing the same old tired mechanics. TOR has battlegrounds. TOR has Quests, TOR has Levels, TOR has Classes.... TOR has goup dynamics sush as healers, DPSers and tankers. TOR will probably have Raids... Havent we played this game before? I know that I have.... But if you feel that it dosent mather then that is another Topic.
And yes I feel the same about FPSes... They all feel kinda the same... They can be a fun passtime though, same as Fighting games sush as Tekken or Virtual fighter feel the same. But what is the diffrence? First off you dont spend nearly as mush time on them as you do with an MMO and they dont cost you a monthly fee. Secondly they are all about MULTIPLAYER.. and we are back on the Chess/EVE thing. If you go up against a Human opponent things always get alot more Interesting and fun! Sadly SWTOR is aiming for the CASUL single player person.. so comunity is gone! Resason to play with others is gone! As you have your COMPANIONS LOL this game has so mush EPIC FAIL its sad.....
You should not make Massive MUltiplayer games and make them SOLO friendly, Takes away the hole Purpose of the game.
Ps: English is not my first language so sorry for the gramatic and spelling Errors.
WoW is not a bad game, saying so would be stupid, Do I play WoW? No! Havent since 2006... Why? because I felt that I played it enough... It dident feel new or fun anymore. Same reason I stoped playing Linage2 and Doac... and picked up WoW. The diffrence though is that Linage2 and Doac are way diffrent then WoW and they are way diffrent then one another.
Warhammer And Aoc and Champions online and Bla bla bla Rest of games made after 2004, When WoW became a hit, ALL resemble it to closly If you ask me. I personaly feel that after playing them a few hours I know everything there is to know about them... Its like you get this déjá vu effect.. I have just Tanked and spanked enough to last me a lifetime.
Now we take EVE since I started in 2004 It still feels fresh and new and fun? Why ? because its player controled .. I have played chess for the last 25 years also and It still feels fresh... Each game is diffrent in its own way.
TOR is a clone because it has quest, Because it has Mobs to kill, Because its not in space but on the planets. Because it looks and probably playes like all the other MMOS after 2004. Its like developers have stoped thinking and only look towards Implementing the same old tired mechanics. TOR has battlegrounds. TOR has Quests, TOR has Levels, TOR has Classes.... TOR has goup dynamics sush as healers, DPSers and tankers. TOR will probably have Raids... Havent we played this game before? I know that I have.... But if you feel that it dosent mather then that is another Topic.
And yes I feel the same about FPSes... They all feel kinda the same... They can be a fun passtime though, same as Fighting games sush as Tekken or Virtual fighter feel the same. But what is the diffrence? First off you dont spend nearly as mush time on them as you do with an MMO and they dont cost you a monthly fee. Secondly they are all about MULTIPLAYER.. and we are back on the Chess/EVE thing. If you go up against a Human opponent things always get alot more Interesting and fun! Sadly SWTOR is aiming for the CASUL single player person.. so comunity is gone! Resason to play with others is gone! As you have your COMPANIONS LOL this game has so mush EPIC FAIL its sad.....
You should not make Massive MUltiplayer games and make them SOLO friendly, Takes away the hole Purpose of the game.
Ps: English is not my first language so sorry for the gramatic and spelling Errors.
Nope, I haven't played this game before, neither have you.
SW:ToR is a clone because it has quests??? Dude...it's a STORY! If I didn't do "quests" and it just read the thing to me, I might get a lil bored. This is an RPG game...stories tend to be the most important elements of RPG's. In fact, stories told through quests/missions are typical in ANY game mate...none of that is exclusive to WoW nor does it mean a game is a WoW clone for adding in quests, or any "typical" (and EXPECTED) MMO elements (levels, battlegrounds, classes). It's like complaining because a comedy movie made you laugh. Did they ever advertise this as anything OTHER than an MMO? What were you expecting? Why on earth would they reinvent "fun"? Why do you think Bioware needed to "take a risk"? Why do you feel Bioware was supposed to "change the game"? They'd be FOOLS! They know what people pay for RIGHT NOW! They're brilliant to go after the MMO giant by doing EXACTLY what WoW did...take all the winning elements of modern MMOs (WoW included) and make them BETTER in THEIR game.
Did you HONESTLY expect them to just create planets that you walked all over with nothing to do but maybe PvP? Would that have been better in your opinion? And going after casual players is where the money is mate, not niche players.
I'm glad Bioware is going after a game I've never played that is globally successful. With a Star Wars theme vs. the worthless troll and elf crap of 99% of all MMOs, I'm sure I'll like it. Star Wars>all IMO.
People are just speculating negatively about the game. They don't like the concepts and the games core mechanics as it's something that has already been done and is not innovating in the least. I mean the game is nothing new other then the voice acting. I love kotor so I know I'll love this game. Who honestly cares what the trolls say? If you have a good time playing a game then that game is good to you.
It's not speculation or guesswork if negative comments are being made from released information and details straight from BioWare themselves.
A good example is the whole space combat portion of the game. They gave out a hefty good amount of details on it. Some like it, I don't. It's as shallow as a puddle of water on a city sidewalk in the middle of summer.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
People are just speculating negatively about the game. They don't like the concepts and the games core mechanics as it's something that has already been done and is not innovating in the least. I mean the game is nothing new other then the voice acting. I love kotor so I know I'll love this game. Who honestly cares what the trolls say? If you have a good time playing a game then that game is good to you.
It's not speculation or guesswork if negative comments are being made from released information and details straight from BioWare themselves.
A good example is the whole space combat portion of the game. They gave out a hefty good amount of details on it. Some like it, I don't. It's as shallow as a puddle of water on a city sidewalk in the middle of summer.
This is true. If people don't like the design choices of some features, thats understandable. What I can't help but criticize are those that know little about the game or features, and make negative comments based on no information. A good example is the "good and bad of TOR" thread that recently cropped up. All the negatives (albeit some are just opinions) seem to be just partial knowledge on features, and skewing them to a point of view.
The tunnel shooter space combat, like it or hate it, its there. If people that dislike the game can get that right, I don't understand why they have to skew all the other features.
WoW is not a bad game, saying so would be stupid, Do I play WoW? No! Havent since 2006... Why? because I felt that I played it enough... It dident feel new or fun anymore. Same reason I stoped playing Linage2 and Doac... and picked up WoW. The diffrence though is that Linage2 and Doac are way diffrent then WoW and they are way diffrent then one another.
Warhammer And Aoc and Champions online and Bla bla bla Rest of games made after 2004, When WoW became a hit, ALL resemble it to closly If you ask me. I personaly feel that after playing them a few hours I know everything there is to know about them... Its like you get this déjá vu effect.. I have just Tanked and spanked enough to last me a lifetime.
Now we take EVE since I started in 2004 It still feels fresh and new and fun? Why ? because its player controled .. I have played chess for the last 25 years also and It still feels fresh... Each game is diffrent in its own way.
TOR is a clone because it has quest, Because it has Mobs to kill, Because its not in space but on the planets. Because it looks and probably playes like all the other MMOS after 2004. Its like developers have stoped thinking and only look towards Implementing the same old tired mechanics. TOR has battlegrounds. TOR has Quests, TOR has Levels, TOR has Classes.... TOR has goup dynamics sush as healers, DPSers and tankers. TOR will probably have Raids... Havent we played this game before? I know that I have.... But if you feel that it dosent mather then that is another Topic.
And yes I feel the same about FPSes... They all feel kinda the same... They can be a fun passtime though, same as Fighting games sush as Tekken or Virtual fighter feel the same. But what is the diffrence? First off you dont spend nearly as mush time on them as you do with an MMO and they dont cost you a monthly fee. Secondly they are all about MULTIPLAYER.. and we are back on the Chess/EVE thing. If you go up against a Human opponent things always get alot more Interesting and fun! Sadly SWTOR is aiming for the CASUL single player person.. so comunity is gone! Resason to play with others is gone! As you have your COMPANIONS LOL this game has so mush EPIC FAIL its sad.....
You should not make Massive MUltiplayer games and make them SOLO friendly, Takes away the hole Purpose of the game.
Ps: English is not my first language so sorry for the gramatic and spelling Errors.
Nope, I haven't played this game before, neither have you.
SW:ToR is a clone because it has quests??? Dude...it's a STORY! If I didn't do "quests" and it just read the thing to me, I might get a lil bored. This is an RPG game...stories tend to be the most important elements of RPG's. In fact, stories told through quests/missions are typical in ANY game mate...none of that is exclusive to WoW nor does it mean a game is a WoW clone for adding in quests, or any "typical" (and EXPECTED) MMO elements (levels, battlegrounds, classes). It's like complaining because a comedy movie made you laugh. Did they ever advertise this as anything OTHER than an MMO? What were you expecting? Why on earth would they reinvent "fun"? Why do you think Bioware needed to "take a risk"? Why do you feel Bioware was supposed to "change the game"? They'd be FOOLS! They know what people pay for RIGHT NOW! They're brilliant to go after the MMO giant by doing EXACTLY what WoW did...take all the winning elements of modern MMOs (WoW included) and make them BETTER in THEIR game.
Did you HONESTLY expect them to just create planets that you walked all over with nothing to do but maybe PvP? Would that have been better in your opinion? And going after casual players is where the money is mate, not niche players.
I'm glad Bioware is going after a game I've never played that is globally successful. With a Star Wars theme vs. the worthless troll and elf crap of 99% of all MMOs, I'm sure I'll like it. Star Wars>all IMO.
all i'm going to say here that presumably its a wow-clone (like many other mmorpgs that followed becase:
- its a themepark game (despite the fact that its a "multi-dimension" rather than "linear").
- NPCs quest givers will have flashy icons on their head so that you won't get lost.
-virtually everything that you may do in game will be designed for you.
-instant gratification (presumably) - meaning the emphasis will be placed on quickly rewarding individuals rather than groups, and most likely in the form of flashy loot.
-extreme focus on keeping the player running around and in combat mode.
-encourages solo play
-probably "user friendly" penalties (if any?) to keep you from giving up.
-fast action paced with eye-catching effects.
...
i think that is what he means by a wow-clone. it is not related to the "skin" or "theme" of the game.
all i'm going to say here that presumably its a wow-clone (like many other mmorpgs that followed becase:
- its a themepark game (despite the fact that its a "multi-dimension" rather than "linear").
Yes
- NPCs quest givers will have flashy icons on their head so that you won't get lost.
Not quite, many if not most quests will be given in instanced areas. Very small areas of the map that will have a clear film across a doorway or something similar.
-virtually everything that you may do in game will be designed for you.
Not entirely, only the personal story is geared towards you.
-instant gratification (presumably) - meaning the emphasis will be placed on quickly rewarding individuals rather than groups, and most likely in the form of flashy loot.
They've said greater rewards are given to those that group. Not too much information on this one.
-extreme focus on keeping the player running around and in combat mode.
Not extreme, but there is a great focus, although gathering is another function players will be capable of, as is interaction with other characters and/or players.
-encourages solo play
Not entirely true, perhaps on the instanced personal story side, but that is a very minimal portion of the game. Lots of group content and PvP is planned.
-probably "user friendly" penalties (if any?) to keep you from giving up.
Most probably true enough.
-fast action paced with eye-catching effects.
This is true.
...
i think that is what he means by a wow-clone. it is not related to the "skin" or "theme" of the game.
Much of this has been mentioned in passing to be somewhat contrary to these points, others are supposition.
I'm going to use a recent example as an experiment.
[object Window]Damion Schubert said:
So just to throw a couple more stray thoughts about our philosophy.
[object Window]
No, you the player cannot craft currently - which is to say you cannot choose to watch the progress bar fill up yourself. That being said, to us, watching a progress bar has always been the least interesting part of crafting in other MMOs. The part of being a crafter that is interesting to us is things like finding rare schematics, finding hard-to-find components, and the social game of finding customers and suppliers. We really wanted devoted crafters to be able to focus on these aspects of crafting, and not so much on the [object Window]watch a progress bar go forward[object Window] part of things. Crafting should be a social thing - staring at a progress bar is not.
[object Window]
No, you don[object Window]t see companions running missions out [object Window]in the real world[object Window]. While I laugh at the idea of a stream of companion characters filing into the palace on Alderaan, it[object Window]s unfeasible for a lot of reasons.
[object Window]
The real test of the value of crafting is less about whether companions or players are swinging the hammer and tongs, and more about how the itemization of crafting is balanced in a way that the gear is useful. Crafting is important to the systems team, and we[object Window]re devoted to ensuring that crafted gear has a place in the economy, especially at the endgame, and doubly especially for the devoted crafters.
[object Window]
It[object Window]s worth noting that we really want the system to support the casual crafter (the guy who is taking crafting largely to outfit himself while leveling up) and the devoted crafter (the guy who wants to be known as the best Armormech in the galaxy). Supporting the former means making the system accessible and easy. Supporting the latter means ensuring that hard work can allow you to provide goods and services that almost no one in the galaxy can. The systems design team is striving to satisfy both groups of people.
[object Window]
My own personal goal is that some crafters can get so good that players all over the server seek them out. My problem being a crafter in most other MMOs is that you tend to become a guild[object Window]s pet at some point, and you[object Window]re expected to do all of the work for free. We want those devoted crafters to be exceptional enough that they can actually demand a price, and that people will actually break out of the guild in order to pursue those goods and services. The system isn[object Window]t there yet, but we have plans...[object Window]
- its a themepark game (despite the fact that its a "multi-dimension" rather than "linear").
- NPCs quest givers will have flashy icons on their head so that you won't get lost.
-virtually everything that you may do in game will be designed for you.
-instant gratification (presumably) - meaning the emphasis will be placed on quickly rewarding individuals rather than groups, and most likely in the form of flashy loot.
-extreme focus on keeping the player running around and in combat mode.
-encourages solo play
-probably "user friendly" penalties (if any?) to keep you from giving up.
-fast action paced with eye-catching effects.
...
i think that is what he means by a wow-clone. it is not related to the "skin" or "theme" of the game.
Look definition of wowclone you are not far off ,
Most people dont understand wow thats its EASY to play .
Easy to play is what attract the majority of people , thats by definition a wow clone .
People who dont want a wow clone want there special mmo , but sadly there are in the minority .
What people understand about wow clone is that infact the sandbox type envoirement , starts at the endgame.
Thats why most are pissed off , they want there special sandbox to start at level 1.
But sadly sorry thats past , it same as saying instead of taking the car 10 min you walk 60 min to work .
Both has there reasons , but why do it hard when you can get it easy .
The point is that most dont get the feel of the community , and wow endgame is about being a number .
Sorry you dont want to come raid , then bugger off , you dont want to help the guild , go form your own guild .
You dont want to raid you dont want to do anything , in wow nobody forces you to do anything , but sadly you are nobody but a scrub with green/blue gear standing around .
The same elist remarks of those die hard i want a sandbox , usually in wowclones they are the scrubs .
Sadly thats what kills most of the old mmo players , they are nothing in a real MMO (who has the most people ?)
Thats why they are so angry , wow stinks wowcrack everything , but sadly wow is the only real MMO by definition for them.
Cause it has the most amount of people , thats the fact people hate .
WoW is easy , yes that people understand newbie or old players . now bioware choose to make a wowclone .
The world alone means hate to them , now lets say next MMO will make a SWTOR clone . the word will have a stigma too .
You dont hear stuff like EVE clone or anything else currently cause wow is on top .
The truth of the matter is the mmorpg community is a pretty tough sell as is and let's face it we tend to march to the beat of a different drummer as evidenced by the fact that a sequel to a game many hardly accepted is pretty much the savior of all mmorpg's (GW2).
What I take solice in is the simple fact that the general arm chair developers who tend to offer up opinions on this game simply do not dictate the fate of the mmorpg genre, by and large WOW is considered the anti christ here but that hasn't hurt the growth and development of that game at all.
I don't like WOW so am often a bit apprehensive about comparing the two but let's face it WOW is a game that is pleasing it's customer base and finding a game like that is more important to me than being right about phantom debates so I can live with the direction being taken by BW.
We dont hate WoW mate we hate Clones and playing WoW in diffrent clothes since 2004... Not mush if anything has happend in the genre since 2004... All mayor games have been copy cats of WoW. We are tired we a fed up we dont want to play any more Tank and spank and throw in a few heals!
And star wars TOR looks to be just another F.... ing clone... Shit game !
EA SUCKS!!!
I'm confused...
You don't hate WoW, so am I safe assuming you enjoy and play WoW?
And I'm sorry, but the term "WoW clone" when referring to this game just makes ZERO sense to me. Sci-fi is not dwarf and warlock 'fantasy'. The two may use similar combat roles, but that sure as hell didn't start with WoW. That argument is as stupid as complaining that all FPS games were DOOM 3D clones.
Yes people often become confused...
WoW is not a bad game, saying so would be stupid, Do I play WoW? No! Havent since 2006... Why? because I felt that I played it enough... It dident feel new or fun anymore. Same reason I stoped playing Linage2 and Doac... and picked up WoW. The diffrence though is that Linage2 and Doac are way diffrent then WoW and they are way diffrent then one another.
Warhammer And Aoc and Champions online and Bla bla bla Rest of games made after 2004, When WoW became a hit, ALL resemble it to closly If you ask me. I personaly feel that after playing them a few hours I know everything there is to know about them... Its like you get this déjá vu effect.. I have just Tanked and spanked enough to last me a lifetime.
Now we take EVE since I started in 2004 It still feels fresh and new and fun? Why ? because its player controled .. I have played chess for the last 25 years also and It still feels fresh... Each game is diffrent in its own way.
TOR is a clone because it has quest, Because it has Mobs to kill, Because its not in space but on the planets. Because it looks and probably playes like all the other MMOS after 2004. Its like developers have stoped thinking and only look towards Implementing the same old tired mechanics. TOR has battlegrounds. TOR has Quests, TOR has Levels, TOR has Classes.... TOR has goup dynamics sush as healers, DPSers and tankers. TOR will probably have Raids... Havent we played this game before? I know that I have.... But if you feel that it dosent mather then that is another Topic.
And yes I feel the same about FPSes... They all feel kinda the same... They can be a fun passtime though, same as Fighting games sush as Tekken or Virtual fighter feel the same. But what is the diffrence? First off you dont spend nearly as mush time on them as you do with an MMO and they dont cost you a monthly fee. Secondly they are all about MULTIPLAYER.. and we are back on the Chess/EVE thing. If you go up against a Human opponent things always get alot more Interesting and fun! Sadly SWTOR is aiming for the CASUL single player person.. so comunity is gone! Resason to play with others is gone! As you have your COMPANIONS LOL this game has so mush EPIC FAIL its sad.....
You should not make Massive MUltiplayer games and make them SOLO friendly, Takes away the hole Purpose of the game.
Ps: English is not my first language so sorry for the gramatic and spelling Errors.
The game is solo friendly but also encourages group play just as much. There is such a thing as balancing it, not everyone wants to look for a group 24/7 as well people not wanting to solo 24/7.
The reasons you state TOR is a clone are just silly. I'm not going to explain why because there is not point. Its pretty obvious the game has taken a complete U-turn to what you would like, but there is not reason to bash a game so badly for these reasons. I mean i personally hate EvE but i don't feel the need to explain to others why, its their choice to play a game and those that depend on the opinions of others are most likely missing out on so many games they turned a blind eye because of people playing it down.
Your post is just one of many that are so misinformed its untrue. I've got no problem with people complaining about a game they intend to play or are looking forward to, as well as features recently announced putting them off.
Its almost as if some people are afraid the game will do well and this will become the new formula for upcoming MMO's. It sounds silly but its what some people come across as. (I am not stating that it will)
- its a themepark game (despite the fact that its a "multi-dimension" rather than "linear").
- NPCs quest givers will have flashy icons on their head so that you won't get lost.
-virtually everything that you may do in game will be designed for you.
-instant gratification (presumably) - meaning the emphasis will be placed on quickly rewarding individuals rather than groups, and most likely in the form of flashy loot.
-extreme focus on keeping the player running around and in combat mode.
-encourages solo play
-probably "user friendly" penalties (if any?) to keep you from giving up.
-fast action paced with eye-catching effects.
...
i think that is what he means by a wow-clone. it is not related to the "skin" or "theme" of the game.
Look definition of wowclone you are not far off ,
Most people dont understand wow thats its EASY to play .
Easy to play is what attract the majority of people , thats by definition a wow clone .
People who dont want a wow clone want there special mmo , but sadly there are in the minority .
What people understand about wow clone is that infact the sandbox type envoirement , starts at the endgame.
Thats why most are pissed off , they want there special sandbox to start at level 1.
But sadly sorry thats past , it same as saying instead of taking the car 10 min you walk 60 min to work .
Both has there reasons , but why do it hard when you can get it easy .
The point is that most dont get the feel of the community , and wow endgame is about being a number .
Sorry you dont want to come raid , then bugger off , you dont want to help the guild , go form your own guild .
You dont want to raid you dont want to do anything , in wow nobody forces you to do anything , but sadly you are nobody but a scrub with green/blue gear standing around .
The same elist remarks of those die hard i want a sandbox , usually in wowclones they are the scrubs .
Sadly thats what kills most of the old mmo players , they are nothing in a real MMO (who has the most people ?)
Thats why they are so angry , wow stinks wowcrack everything , but sadly wow is the only real MMO by definition for them.
Cause it has the most amount of people , thats the fact people hate .
WoW is easy , yes that people understand newbie or old players . now bioware choose to make a wowclone .
The world alone means hate to them , now lets say next MMO will make a SWTOR clone . the word will have a stigma too .
You dont hear stuff like EVE clone or anything else currently cause wow is on top .
whilst most of your rant is debatable and generalises quite a bit, all i'm going to say here is that sandbox cannot start at end-game. that just doesn't exist and impossible to fathom. choosing when, if and where to go raiding doesn't begin to sound sandbox. even if you had open PVP all over the world it wouldn't be sandbox. you would have to completely change the system of the game (from removing classes, to introduce non-obvious game-content and unlock several features and tools users would be able to use to create their own stuff. it just doesn't exist.
and you are right about wow being compared with everything else due to its 10mil users. no one will dispute that (i don't think). it has definitely set a benchmark for the rest.
some like it, some don't. it has nothing to do with elitism - its a matter of what different people find attractive and fun. some people prefer chess to boxing...
whilst most of your rant is debatable and generalises quite a bit, all i'm going to say here is that sandbox cannot start at end-game. that just doesn't exist and impossible to fathom. choosing when, if and where to go raiding doesn't begin to sound sandbox. even if you had open PVP all over the world it wouldn't be sandbox. you would have to completely change the system of the game (from removing classes, to introduce non-obvious game-content and unlock several features and tools users would be able to use to create their own stuff. it just doesn't exist.
and you are right about wow being compared with everything else due to its 10mil users. no one will dispute that (i don't think). it has definitely set a benchmark for the rest.
some like it, some don't. it has nothing to do with elitism - its a matter of what different people find attractive and fun. some people prefer chess to boxing...
Whats a sandbox ? a closed envoirement that you are free to do whatever you want , to progress or not to progress .
And forced cooperation with others cause they play in your sandbox too ?
OPEN PVP endgame is so easy to organise in a themepark just go hit there city , sure you will be ganked and losing , but its there , ah advangetage pvp , well thats a bit personal opnion isn´t it ?
Any mmo that has not a sandbox as endgame ? cause no MMO is ever done !!
Every MMO has the sandbox stage , just at a themepark its at the end , you name me sandbox features . that mmo dont provide at the endgame , its all there mindless GRIND !!!
The thing is that you cannot fanthom sandbox at the endgame , is something you didn´t think about .
The whole sandbox structure is there at the endgame of WOW , raiding Arena PVP , openworld PVP . just nobody is forced to participate in anything , you need to organise it .
So you put in the effort you reap the reward , isn´t that whats sandbox structure people ask for , even in a community there is somebody who helps you spent time effort and stuff doing it for you .
In themepark its called either do it yourself , or appreciate somebody else offer in the end game .
whilst most of your rant is debatable and generalises quite a bit, all i'm going to say here is that sandbox cannot start at end-game. that just doesn't exist and impossible to fathom. choosing when, if and where to go raiding doesn't begin to sound sandbox. even if you had open PVP all over the world it wouldn't be sandbox. you would have to completely change the system of the game (from removing classes, to introduce non-obvious game-content and unlock several features and tools users would be able to use to create their own stuff. it just doesn't exist.
and you are right about wow being compared with everything else due to its 10mil users. no one will dispute that (i don't think). it has definitely set a benchmark for the rest.
some like it, some don't. it has nothing to do with elitism - its a matter of what different people find attractive and fun. some people prefer chess to boxing...
Whats a sandbox ? a closed envoirement that you are free to do whatever you want , to progress or not to progress .
And forced cooperation with others cause they play in your sandbox too ?
OPEN PVP endgame is so easy to organise in a themepark just go hit there city , sure you will be ganked and losing , but its there , ah advangetage pvp , well thats a bit personal opnion isn´t it ?
Any mmo that has not a sandbox as endgame ? cause no MMO is ever done !!
Every MMO has the sandbox stage , just at a themepark its at the end , you name me sandbox features . that mmo dont provide at the endgame , its all there mindless GRIND !!!
The thing is that you cannot fanthom sandbox at the endgame , is something you didn´t think about .
The whole sandbox structure is there at the endgame of WOW , raiding Arena PVP , openworld PVP . just nobody is forced to participate in anything , you need to organise it .
So you put in the effort you reap the reward , isn´t that whats sandbox structure people ask for , even in a community there is somebody who helps you spent time effort and stuff doing it for you .
In themepark its called either do it yourself , or appreciate somebody else offer in the end game .
i'm sorry, but you need to do some research before posting, me thinks.
running out of quests, levels to grind or organising raids or PVP fights does not make a game a sandbox.
you think every endgame is sandbox because you don't need to level any more and you are "free" to take up some other activities.
whilst most of your rant is debatable and generalises quite a bit, all i'm going to say here is that sandbox cannot start at end-game. that just doesn't exist and impossible to fathom. choosing when, if and where to go raiding doesn't begin to sound sandbox. even if you had open PVP all over the world it wouldn't be sandbox. you would have to completely change the system of the game (from removing classes, to introduce non-obvious game-content and unlock several features and tools users would be able to use to create their own stuff. it just doesn't exist.
and you are right about wow being compared with everything else due to its 10mil users. no one will dispute that (i don't think). it has definitely set a benchmark for the rest.
some like it, some don't. it has nothing to do with elitism - its a matter of what different people find attractive and fun. some people prefer chess to boxing...
Whats a sandbox ? a closed envoirement that you are free to do whatever you want , to progress or not to progress .
And forced cooperation with others cause they play in your sandbox too ?
OPEN PVP endgame is so easy to organise in a themepark just go hit there city , sure you will be ganked and losing , but its there , ah advangetage pvp , well thats a bit personal opnion isn´t it ?
Any mmo that has not a sandbox as endgame ? cause no MMO is ever done !!
Every MMO has the sandbox stage , just at a themepark its at the end , you name me sandbox features . that mmo dont provide at the endgame , its all there mindless GRIND !!!
The thing is that you cannot fanthom sandbox at the endgame , is something you didn´t think about .
The whole sandbox structure is there at the endgame of WOW , raiding Arena PVP , openworld PVP . just nobody is forced to participate in anything , you need to organise it .
So you put in the effort you reap the reward , isn´t that whats sandbox structure people ask for , even in a community there is somebody who helps you spent time effort and stuff doing it for you .
In themepark its called either do it yourself , or appreciate somebody else offer in the end game .
i'm sorry, but you need to do some research before posting, me thinks.
running out of quests, levels to grind or organising raids or PVP fights does not make a game a sandbox.
you think every endgame is sandbox because you don't need to level any more and you are "free" to take up some other activities.
sorry, but you're wrong.
Ironically I recall folks in SWG basically grinding to get to there advanced classes much like I had to do to get to Creature handler, while I am having hard time understanding what the person you responded to was saying I get the feeling that he is saying that sandbox and themepark mmo's share the same experiences and ways to play them the difference it seems to me is all in perspective.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
whilst most of your rant is debatable and generalises quite a bit, all i'm going to say here is that sandbox cannot start at end-game. that just doesn't exist and impossible to fathom. choosing when, if and where to go raiding doesn't begin to sound sandbox. even if you had open PVP all over the world it wouldn't be sandbox. you would have to completely change the system of the game (from removing classes, to introduce non-obvious game-content and unlock several features and tools users would be able to use to create their own stuff. it just doesn't exist.
and you are right about wow being compared with everything else due to its 10mil users. no one will dispute that (i don't think). it has definitely set a benchmark for the rest.
some like it, some don't. it has nothing to do with elitism - its a matter of what different people find attractive and fun. some people prefer chess to boxing...
Whats a sandbox ? a closed envoirement that you are free to do whatever you want , to progress or not to progress .
And forced cooperation with others cause they play in your sandbox too ?
OPEN PVP endgame is so easy to organise in a themepark just go hit there city , sure you will be ganked and losing , but its there , ah advangetage pvp , well thats a bit personal opnion isn´t it ?
Any mmo that has not a sandbox as endgame ? cause no MMO is ever done !!
Every MMO has the sandbox stage , just at a themepark its at the end , you name me sandbox features . that mmo dont provide at the endgame , its all there mindless GRIND !!!
The thing is that you cannot fanthom sandbox at the endgame , is something you didn´t think about .
The whole sandbox structure is there at the endgame of WOW , raiding Arena PVP , openworld PVP . just nobody is forced to participate in anything , you need to organise it .
So you put in the effort you reap the reward , isn´t that whats sandbox structure people ask for , even in a community there is somebody who helps you spent time effort and stuff doing it for you .
In themepark its called either do it yourself , or appreciate somebody else offer in the end game .
i'm sorry, but you need to do some research before posting, me thinks.
running out of quests, levels to grind or organising raids or PVP fights does not make a game a sandbox.
you think every endgame is sandbox because you don't need to level any more and you are "free" to take up some other activities.
sorry, but you're wrong.
Ironically I recall folks in SWG basically grinding to get to there advanced classes much like I had to do to get to Creature handler, while I am having hard time understanding what the person you responded to was saying I get the feeling that he is saying that sandbox and themepark mmo's share the same experiences and ways to play them the difference it seems to me is all in perspective.
SWG was the biggest grindfest to exist in the MMO industry.
and yes, part of the idea of the game was to level up and acquire new skills.
But...
you could also claim that in SWG that wasn't the only or perhaps even principle objective. The objective could have been to acquire a bigger house, or to expand your city, or to aid in the galactic civil war in numerous ways, or to heal players in a med center, or to provide camps to your friend in the wilderness; even to set up or expand your own shop.
of course, everyone wanted to provide the best services - be it in healing, combat, camping, image design, entertaining, taming pets... you name it. BUT it could have also come as a result of providing your services to friends or the public, not as a personal objective to climb to master level as quickly as possible.
and proof of this is that people constantly gave up skills and branches to try something new, and there were no levels to show-off, and people could participate on all the game's content without necessarily being very skillful in their profession. the main objective, i would argue, was to make a living for yourself in the game, not reaching end-game quickly.
and anyone who argues that sandbox and themeparks are relative to personal perspective doesn't know what these terms mean, or why they were created in the first place.
you think every endgame is sandbox because you don't need to level any more and you are "free" to take up some other activities.
sorry, but you're wrong.
thats the typical answer i expected , sorry cause you want to give me your definition of the sandbox and i can revert back to the old post , what is what .
Nope am not being wrong , themapark endgame is the sandbox , dont like it then you quit .
Sandbox game start is the sandbox , dont like it you quit , difference is themepark people pay longer .
And get more influx of people .
Sandbox people just quit never look back, only select few playing and a MMO without people isn´t so much fun , is it ?
you could also claim that in SWG that wasn't the only or perhaps even principle objective. The objective could have been to acquire a bigger house, or to expand your city, or to aid in the galactic civil war in numerous ways, or to heal players in a med center, or to provide camps to your friend in the wilderness; even to set up or expand your own shop.
of course, everyone wanted to provide the best services - be it in healing, combat, camping, image design, entertaining, taming pets... you name it. BUT it could have also come as a result of providing your services to friends or the public, not as a personal objective to climb to master level as quickly as possible.
and proof of this is that people constantly gave up skills and branches to try something new, and there were no levels to show-off, and people could participate on all the game's content without necessarily being very skillful in their profession. the main objective, i would argue, was to make a living for yourself in the game, not reaching end-game quickly.
and anyone who argues that sandbox and themeparks are relative to personal perspective doesn't know what these terms mean, or why they were created in the first place.
So first idea is freedom , well on themepark if you have freedom to do everything you want , lets say your biggest bash wow
1 Freedom to ride into a capital city with a group of loyal friends and kill all the auctioneer on a pvp server .
Till you got tired of it , or the npcs forces you out (ussually a stinky gm who have pitty on the poor sobs)
Freedom to just sit in goldshire do nothing but pretend to be a lady of services .
Freedom to aquire 10 million gold like somebody just did , proclaim you are the richest man on the server . (poor sob grinded for 3 years)
Freedom to chae 10.000 achievement points and be world first , that dont get recognised .
See both is about grind and dedication and working , just yours sound really good , but what about time and investment you had to do to make a player house .
2 thats a coumminty thing , well topserver raiding guild sometimes offfer to help the community out by doing boost runs to show them the raid instances that they never could see .
Community offers to host events of none aggression pact and do a horde alliance event .
People offering there trade on the chat channel for free . if you bring the mats .
(see whats the difference)
3 ALTING
People restart there toons class respec , relevel alts . trying a warlock and other class . FOTM .
Sorry all your examples you find so special i can name in your most hatefull game , themepark ride .
you think every endgame is sandbox because you don't need to level any more and you are "free" to take up some other activities.
sorry, but you're wrong.
thats the typical answer i expected , sorry cause you want to give me your definition of the sandbox and i can revert back to the old post , what is what .
Nope am not being wrong , themapark endgame is the sandbox , dont like it then you quit .
Sandbox game start is the sandbox , dont like it you quit , difference is themepark people pay longer .
And get more influx of people .
Sandbox people just quit never look back, only select few playing and a MMO without people isn´t so much fun , is it ?
raids are FIXED SEQUENCES OF CHALLENGES!
as with quests, you can chose when and if to do them, but they are there to provide you with a developer-designed content for your end-game pleasure - and personal loot drops might i add.
it is not a persistent world changed, influenced, or created by the player.
open world pvp does give players more freedom but unless they are empowered to change the world in a meaningful way, fight for an objective (or objectives aside from loot) and so on and so forth its nothing but PVP in a huge instance (ie: the whole world).
you think every endgame is sandbox because you don't need to level any more and you are "free" to take up some other activities.
sorry, but you're wrong.
thats the typical answer i expected , sorry cause you want to give me your definition of the sandbox and i can revert back to the old post , what is what .
Nope am not being wrong , themapark endgame is the sandbox , dont like it then you quit .
Sandbox game start is the sandbox , dont like it you quit , difference is themepark people pay longer .
And get more influx of people .
Sandbox people just quit never look back, only select few playing and a MMO without people isn´t so much fun , is it ?
raids are FIXED SEQUENCES OF CHALLENGES!
as with quests, you can chose when and if to do them, but they are there to provide you with a developer-designed content for your end-game pleasure - and personal loot drops might i add.
it is not a persistent world changed, influenced, or created by the player.
open world pvp does give players more freedom but unless they are empowered to change the world in a meaningful way, fight for an objective (or objectives aside from loot) and so on and so forth its nothing but PVP in a huge instance (ie: the whole world).
I'm still waiting for that game where what an individual player does changes,influences or creates something in the game world other than a perspective for other players.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Comments
1. This is NOT a remake of SWG. There, before NGE, a Creature Handler could tame a Rancor. And yes, it was awesome!
But there are no Creature Handlers in SWTOR... so why would you be able to tame a Rancor?
2. It seems allot of people really want a Star Wars Themed, sandbox game like SWG. Also they want to be an all-powerful sith, sort of like Starkiller is in the Force Unleashed. Plus they also "must have" Complete Open World PvP where they can run around, like packs of dogs, and kill EVERYTHING! In short, they want it to be a "Star Wars MMO" version of GTA4... *rolleyes*
Personally, I have really enjoyed BioWare's other RPGs. I have seriously played Mass Effect through so many times I've lost count. So I'm familiar with how they like to make their games, and how they tell stories. That said I think its reasonable for me to expect that I will enjoy SWTOR immensely. If for no other reason than the fact that I will be able to play one of their RPGs with some of my friends.
Other than that I am determined to withhold judgement until after I have some first hand experience. And YES I do believe that the SWTOR forums are inhabited by some really nasty Trolls...
Lets watch the baiting and flaming guys. Cut it out. Please follow the RoC when posting. Thanks.
Firstly its "A polished turd is still a turd".
Secondly if you think this game looks remotely like WoW, go to the website look at all the information, videos etc. Then other websites with interviews, videos and so on. Game is very different to WoW and i mean a great deal. Look past the basic gameplay and you might actually see it.
A lot of people hyped for the game are keeping up with information and videos. We are seeing first hand how systems work so you do get a pretty big feel for how the game will turn out. Some will be disappointed thats for sure, people tend to expect way to much. Some people are already disappointed because of this.
By the way, the graphics really aren't that bad. People that complain about them have really hit rock bottom and can't find anything else to complain about.
If graphics are suppose to be the 'be all end all' why is Minecraft so popular? :P
Or facebook games? Angry birds? Bejewelled?
I think it is safe to say that the current market is saying 'if it is fun / interesting, screw the graphics!'
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
More like bunch of little puppies barking their high pitch voices...
We dont hate WoW mate we hate Clones and playing WoW in diffrent clothes since 2004... Not mush if anything has happend in the genre since 2004... All mayor games have been copy cats of WoW. We are tired we a fed up we dont want to play any more Tank and spank and throw in a few heals!
And star wars TOR looks to be just another F.... ing clone... Shit game !
EA SUCKS!!!
I'm confused...
You don't hate WoW, so am I safe assuming you enjoy and play WoW?
And I'm sorry, but the term "WoW clone" when referring to this game just makes ZERO sense to me. Sci-fi is not dwarf and warlock 'fantasy'. The two may use similar combat roles, but that sure as hell didn't start with WoW. That argument is as stupid as complaining that all FPS games were DOOM 3D clones.
Yes people often become confused...
WoW is not a bad game, saying so would be stupid, Do I play WoW? No! Havent since 2006... Why? because I felt that I played it enough... It dident feel new or fun anymore. Same reason I stoped playing Linage2 and Doac... and picked up WoW. The diffrence though is that Linage2 and Doac are way diffrent then WoW and they are way diffrent then one another.
Warhammer And Aoc and Champions online and Bla bla bla Rest of games made after 2004, When WoW became a hit, ALL resemble it to closly If you ask me. I personaly feel that after playing them a few hours I know everything there is to know about them... Its like you get this déjá vu effect.. I have just Tanked and spanked enough to last me a lifetime.
Now we take EVE since I started in 2004 It still feels fresh and new and fun? Why ? because its player controled .. I have played chess for the last 25 years also and It still feels fresh... Each game is diffrent in its own way.
TOR is a clone because it has quest, Because it has Mobs to kill, Because its not in space but on the planets. Because it looks and probably playes like all the other MMOS after 2004. Its like developers have stoped thinking and only look towards Implementing the same old tired mechanics. TOR has battlegrounds. TOR has Quests, TOR has Levels, TOR has Classes.... TOR has goup dynamics sush as healers, DPSers and tankers. TOR will probably have Raids... Havent we played this game before? I know that I have.... But if you feel that it dosent mather then that is another Topic.
And yes I feel the same about FPSes... They all feel kinda the same... They can be a fun passtime though, same as Fighting games sush as Tekken or Virtual fighter feel the same. But what is the diffrence? First off you dont spend nearly as mush time on them as you do with an MMO and they dont cost you a monthly fee. Secondly they are all about MULTIPLAYER.. and we are back on the Chess/EVE thing. If you go up against a Human opponent things always get alot more Interesting and fun! Sadly SWTOR is aiming for the CASUL single player person.. so comunity is gone! Resason to play with others is gone! As you have your COMPANIONS LOL this game has so mush EPIC FAIL its sad.....
You should not make Massive MUltiplayer games and make them SOLO friendly, Takes away the hole Purpose of the game.
Ps: English is not my first language so sorry for the gramatic and spelling Errors.
Nope, I haven't played this game before, neither have you.
SW:ToR is a clone because it has quests??? Dude...it's a STORY! If I didn't do "quests" and it just read the thing to me, I might get a lil bored. This is an RPG game...stories tend to be the most important elements of RPG's. In fact, stories told through quests/missions are typical in ANY game mate...none of that is exclusive to WoW nor does it mean a game is a WoW clone for adding in quests, or any "typical" (and EXPECTED) MMO elements (levels, battlegrounds, classes). It's like complaining because a comedy movie made you laugh. Did they ever advertise this as anything OTHER than an MMO? What were you expecting? Why on earth would they reinvent "fun"? Why do you think Bioware needed to "take a risk"? Why do you feel Bioware was supposed to "change the game"? They'd be FOOLS! They know what people pay for RIGHT NOW! They're brilliant to go after the MMO giant by doing EXACTLY what WoW did...take all the winning elements of modern MMOs (WoW included) and make them BETTER in THEIR game.
Did you HONESTLY expect them to just create planets that you walked all over with nothing to do but maybe PvP? Would that have been better in your opinion? And going after casual players is where the money is mate, not niche players.
I'm glad Bioware is going after a game I've never played that is globally successful. With a Star Wars theme vs. the worthless troll and elf crap of 99% of all MMOs, I'm sure I'll like it. Star Wars>all IMO.
It's not speculation or guesswork if negative comments are being made from released information and details straight from BioWare themselves.
A good example is the whole space combat portion of the game. They gave out a hefty good amount of details on it. Some like it, I don't. It's as shallow as a puddle of water on a city sidewalk in the middle of summer.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
This is true. If people don't like the design choices of some features, thats understandable. What I can't help but criticize are those that know little about the game or features, and make negative comments based on no information. A good example is the "good and bad of TOR" thread that recently cropped up. All the negatives (albeit some are just opinions) seem to be just partial knowledge on features, and skewing them to a point of view.
The tunnel shooter space combat, like it or hate it, its there. If people that dislike the game can get that right, I don't understand why they have to skew all the other features.
all i'm going to say here that presumably its a wow-clone (like many other mmorpgs that followed becase:
- its a themepark game (despite the fact that its a "multi-dimension" rather than "linear").
- NPCs quest givers will have flashy icons on their head so that you won't get lost.
-virtually everything that you may do in game will be designed for you.
-instant gratification (presumably) - meaning the emphasis will be placed on quickly rewarding individuals rather than groups, and most likely in the form of flashy loot.
-extreme focus on keeping the player running around and in combat mode.
-encourages solo play
-probably "user friendly" penalties (if any?) to keep you from giving up.
-fast action paced with eye-catching effects.
...
i think that is what he means by a wow-clone. it is not related to the "skin" or "theme" of the game.
Much of this has been mentioned in passing to be somewhat contrary to these points, others are supposition.
I'm going to use a recent example as an experiment.
[object Window]Damion Schubert said:
So just to throw a couple more stray thoughts about our philosophy.
[object Window]
No, you the player cannot craft currently - which is to say you cannot choose to watch the progress bar fill up yourself. That being said, to us, watching a progress bar has always been the least interesting part of crafting in other MMOs. The part of being a crafter that is interesting to us is things like finding rare schematics, finding hard-to-find components, and the social game of finding customers and suppliers. We really wanted devoted crafters to be able to focus on these aspects of crafting, and not so much on the [object Window]watch a progress bar go forward[object Window] part of things. Crafting should be a social thing - staring at a progress bar is not.
[object Window]
No, you don[object Window]t see companions running missions out [object Window]in the real world[object Window]. While I laugh at the idea of a stream of companion characters filing into the palace on Alderaan, it[object Window]s unfeasible for a lot of reasons.
[object Window]
The real test of the value of crafting is less about whether companions or players are swinging the hammer and tongs, and more about how the itemization of crafting is balanced in a way that the gear is useful. Crafting is important to the systems team, and we[object Window]re devoted to ensuring that crafted gear has a place in the economy, especially at the endgame, and doubly especially for the devoted crafters.
[object Window]
It[object Window]s worth noting that we really want the system to support the casual crafter (the guy who is taking crafting largely to outfit himself while leveling up) and the devoted crafter (the guy who wants to be known as the best Armormech in the galaxy). Supporting the former means making the system accessible and easy. Supporting the latter means ensuring that hard work can allow you to provide goods and services that almost no one in the galaxy can. The systems design team is striving to satisfy both groups of people.
[object Window]
My own personal goal is that some crafters can get so good that players all over the server seek them out. My problem being a crafter in most other MMOs is that you tend to become a guild[object Window]s pet at some point, and you[object Window]re expected to do all of the work for free. We want those devoted crafters to be exceptional enough that they can actually demand a price, and that people will actually break out of the guild in order to pursue those goods and services. The system isn[object Window]t there yet, but we have plans...[object Window]
[object Window]
Link.
[object Window]
Now how many sandbox players/traditionalists stopped reading or lost interest after the first sentence? Those are the trolls.
Look definition of wowclone you are not far off ,
Most people dont understand wow thats its EASY to play .
Easy to play is what attract the majority of people , thats by definition a wow clone .
People who dont want a wow clone want there special mmo , but sadly there are in the minority .
What people understand about wow clone is that infact the sandbox type envoirement , starts at the endgame.
Thats why most are pissed off , they want there special sandbox to start at level 1.
But sadly sorry thats past , it same as saying instead of taking the car 10 min you walk 60 min to work .
Both has there reasons , but why do it hard when you can get it easy .
The point is that most dont get the feel of the community , and wow endgame is about being a number .
Sorry you dont want to come raid , then bugger off , you dont want to help the guild , go form your own guild .
You dont want to raid you dont want to do anything , in wow nobody forces you to do anything , but sadly you are nobody but a scrub with green/blue gear standing around .
The same elist remarks of those die hard i want a sandbox , usually in wowclones they are the scrubs .
Sadly thats what kills most of the old mmo players , they are nothing in a real MMO (who has the most people ?)
Thats why they are so angry , wow stinks wowcrack everything , but sadly wow is the only real MMO by definition for them.
Cause it has the most amount of people , thats the fact people hate .
WoW is easy , yes that people understand newbie or old players . now bioware choose to make a wowclone .
The world alone means hate to them , now lets say next MMO will make a SWTOR clone . the word will have a stigma too .
You dont hear stuff like EVE clone or anything else currently cause wow is on top .
The game is solo friendly but also encourages group play just as much. There is such a thing as balancing it, not everyone wants to look for a group 24/7 as well people not wanting to solo 24/7.
The reasons you state TOR is a clone are just silly. I'm not going to explain why because there is not point. Its pretty obvious the game has taken a complete U-turn to what you would like, but there is not reason to bash a game so badly for these reasons. I mean i personally hate EvE but i don't feel the need to explain to others why, its their choice to play a game and those that depend on the opinions of others are most likely missing out on so many games they turned a blind eye because of people playing it down.
Your post is just one of many that are so misinformed its untrue. I've got no problem with people complaining about a game they intend to play or are looking forward to, as well as features recently announced putting them off.
Its almost as if some people are afraid the game will do well and this will become the new formula for upcoming MMO's. It sounds silly but its what some people come across as. (I am not stating that it will)
whilst most of your rant is debatable and generalises quite a bit, all i'm going to say here is that sandbox cannot start at end-game. that just doesn't exist and impossible to fathom. choosing when, if and where to go raiding doesn't begin to sound sandbox. even if you had open PVP all over the world it wouldn't be sandbox. you would have to completely change the system of the game (from removing classes, to introduce non-obvious game-content and unlock several features and tools users would be able to use to create their own stuff. it just doesn't exist.
and you are right about wow being compared with everything else due to its 10mil users. no one will dispute that (i don't think). it has definitely set a benchmark for the rest.
some like it, some don't. it has nothing to do with elitism - its a matter of what different people find attractive and fun. some people prefer chess to boxing...
Whats a sandbox ? a closed envoirement that you are free to do whatever you want , to progress or not to progress .
And forced cooperation with others cause they play in your sandbox too ?
OPEN PVP endgame is so easy to organise in a themepark just go hit there city , sure you will be ganked and losing , but its there , ah advangetage pvp , well thats a bit personal opnion isn´t it ?
Any mmo that has not a sandbox as endgame ? cause no MMO is ever done !!
Every MMO has the sandbox stage , just at a themepark its at the end , you name me sandbox features . that mmo dont provide at the endgame , its all there mindless GRIND !!!
The thing is that you cannot fanthom sandbox at the endgame , is something you didn´t think about .
The whole sandbox structure is there at the endgame of WOW , raiding Arena PVP , openworld PVP . just nobody is forced to participate in anything , you need to organise it .
So you put in the effort you reap the reward , isn´t that whats sandbox structure people ask for , even in a community there is somebody who helps you spent time effort and stuff doing it for you .
In themepark its called either do it yourself , or appreciate somebody else offer in the end game .
i'm sorry, but you need to do some research before posting, me thinks.
running out of quests, levels to grind or organising raids or PVP fights does not make a game a sandbox.
you think every endgame is sandbox because you don't need to level any more and you are "free" to take up some other activities.
sorry, but you're wrong.
Ironically I recall folks in SWG basically grinding to get to there advanced classes much like I had to do to get to Creature handler, while I am having hard time understanding what the person you responded to was saying I get the feeling that he is saying that sandbox and themepark mmo's share the same experiences and ways to play them the difference it seems to me is all in perspective.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
SWG was the biggest grindfest to exist in the MMO industry.
and yes, part of the idea of the game was to level up and acquire new skills.
But...
you could also claim that in SWG that wasn't the only or perhaps even principle objective. The objective could have been to acquire a bigger house, or to expand your city, or to aid in the galactic civil war in numerous ways, or to heal players in a med center, or to provide camps to your friend in the wilderness; even to set up or expand your own shop.
of course, everyone wanted to provide the best services - be it in healing, combat, camping, image design, entertaining, taming pets... you name it. BUT it could have also come as a result of providing your services to friends or the public, not as a personal objective to climb to master level as quickly as possible.
and proof of this is that people constantly gave up skills and branches to try something new, and there were no levels to show-off, and people could participate on all the game's content without necessarily being very skillful in their profession. the main objective, i would argue, was to make a living for yourself in the game, not reaching end-game quickly.
and anyone who argues that sandbox and themeparks are relative to personal perspective doesn't know what these terms mean, or why they were created in the first place.
thats the typical answer i expected , sorry cause you want to give me your definition of the sandbox and i can revert back to the old post , what is what .
Nope am not being wrong , themapark endgame is the sandbox , dont like it then you quit .
Sandbox game start is the sandbox , dont like it you quit , difference is themepark people pay longer .
And get more influx of people .
Sandbox people just quit never look back, only select few playing and a MMO without people isn´t so much fun , is it ?
So first idea is freedom , well on themepark if you have freedom to do everything you want , lets say your biggest bash wow
1 Freedom to ride into a capital city with a group of loyal friends and kill all the auctioneer on a pvp server .
Till you got tired of it , or the npcs forces you out (ussually a stinky gm who have pitty on the poor sobs)
Freedom to just sit in goldshire do nothing but pretend to be a lady of services .
Freedom to aquire 10 million gold like somebody just did , proclaim you are the richest man on the server . (poor sob grinded for 3 years)
Freedom to chae 10.000 achievement points and be world first , that dont get recognised .
See both is about grind and dedication and working , just yours sound really good , but what about time and investment you had to do to make a player house .
2 thats a coumminty thing , well topserver raiding guild sometimes offfer to help the community out by doing boost runs to show them the raid instances that they never could see .
Community offers to host events of none aggression pact and do a horde alliance event .
People offering there trade on the chat channel for free . if you bring the mats .
(see whats the difference)
3 ALTING
People restart there toons class respec , relevel alts . trying a warlock and other class . FOTM .
Sorry all your examples you find so special i can name in your most hatefull game , themepark ride .
raids are FIXED SEQUENCES OF CHALLENGES!
as with quests, you can chose when and if to do them, but they are there to provide you with a developer-designed content for your end-game pleasure - and personal loot drops might i add.
it is not a persistent world changed, influenced, or created by the player.
open world pvp does give players more freedom but unless they are empowered to change the world in a meaningful way, fight for an objective (or objectives aside from loot) and so on and so forth its nothing but PVP in a huge instance (ie: the whole world).
I'm still waiting for that game where what an individual player does changes,influences or creates something in the game world other than a perspective for other players.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....