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I've given up
Charisi
Member Posts: 159
First, let me preface this by saying a few things. Most importantly, I am probably what some would consider a bioware fanboy. I've played every game they've made, (with the exception of Jade Empire...just haven't gotten around to it yet), and loved everyone of them. More specifically, I'm a Mass Effect NUT. I've put hundreds of hours into both games, and read the comics and books as well. I firmly believe Bioware craps gold.
Also, I am most definitely a Star Wars fanboy, (minus the prequel trilogy of course). 95% of the books I read are Star Wars books. I've played/own the majority of Star Wars video games, (yes, I still even have Shadows of the Empire for N64 =P). I absolutely LOVE Star Wars. It has such a rich and vibrant lore.
Now, I was one of the SW:TOR fanboys that has been waiting for this game since before we even knew what Bioware Austin was up to. I have been so excited for this game, that at points I felt like a child waiting for X-mas. However, based soley on what I have read the past week or so, I feel the game has completely lost my interest. I just read the article about how World of Warcraft is the "touchstone" for SW:TOR development. Now, that being said, I can't blame a company for wanting to be successful. What's the goal of any company? To make money, plain and simple. I've played WoW in the past as well. I think WoW was good in it's own way, but I hated how dumbed down they ended up making the game, just so they could cater to the idiots that had no idea how to play a game. I certainly understand why they did it though, as it has made the game the most successful MMO to date. Now, I'm not going to sit here and bash WoW, (as simply, I don't HATE the game, as others do), as that wasn't the point of my article. I think WoW should be left as WoW, and other companys should stop trying to copy WoW, and make their own game.
I feel that Bioware is severely hindering the game's capabilities. I was extremely disappointed when I read that space was going to be a rail shooter. After complaining about it for a while, I realized that it didn't really matter. I was going to play the game anyway, as the rail shooter space combat wasn't a deal breaker for me.
Then I read about the race/class restrictions. Now before I go into this, let me save some of the trolls some trouble. I know race/class restrictions have been in virtually every MMO ever made. I get it. One more time for the visually impaired, I KNOW! What upsets me about the restrictions in SW:TOR, is that I feel they are FAR too restricting. I mean, here we have probably one of the most expansive and rich lores in the world, that is literally FULL of dozens and dozens of various race/class combos,(to put it simply). A perfect example of a clear disregard for lore is the Miraluka. They have to probably be one of my more favorite races in SW lore. There have only been a few well known Miraluka throughout SW, but certainly the most prominent has to be Vises Marr. For those that don't know, she was a sith Miraluka companion from KOTOR 2. Now, Bioware has limited them to REPUBLIC ONLY. Why in poo perfect hell, is one of the most force sensitive races in SW history, being limited to ONLY jedi? Granted a large number of miraluka helped rebuild the jedi order, but they weren't ALL jedi, and it certainly wasn't a rare sight to see sith miraluka.
I could list dozens of other examples, but I really don't want to put you non SW nuts to sleep =P. The point is, I feel like Bioware didn't even bother to do the most basic research on the races and classes they were putting in the game, or SW itself for that matter. For example, I read one article from a producer, (I believe it was a producer. Can't recall his name off the top of my head at the moment), who said that there will never be faction swapping....ever. What?! All the major events in all of SW history are BASED on faction swapping. The most notable example, Anakin Skywalker. He grew up as a jedi,. Then what happened? HE FELL TO THE DARK SIDE!!! And at the end of his life, redeemed himself by saving his son's life. The success of the Empire was in large part, due to Anakin's fall to the dark side, thus completely changing that time period. The examples of falling to the dark side/redemption are far more than I care to list, as I don't have hours to do so, but you get the point.
I realize that Bioware is trying to make the best story possible, but they are ignoring key elements that make SW what it is. According to their story, no sith will ever be redeemed, and no jedi will ever fall to the dark side. This simply isn't Star Wars.While I do have other complaints, (like locking lightsaber styles/colors to one per class), I feel I've been long winded enough.
In closing, let me just say that I'm not trying to sway anyone, one way or the other. I was merely voicing my distaste for what the game has shaped up to be, and wanted to sort of gauge how many others felt the same. There is no need for trolls/flaming, (even though I know the logic impaired will be on here doing it anyway), and I don't need people to tell me the game isn't even out yet, so wait and see. I know it's not out yet. I based my opinion soley on the info/videos Bioware have released already.
A Requiem For Argos, now available at e-book retailers.
Comments
You lost me at "first let me preface.........."
Always has to be one that doesn't get it.
A Requiem For Argos, now available at e-book retailers.
As long as he meant that you need to have everything wow has and more then I don't care what he said.
I want to own property too
Have the races for each class been released?
I think your picking on a few points that really aren't that big of a deal. Except space maybe but KOTOR was the best SW game i've ever played and it had an even worse space element.
Faction swapping i read wasn't in the game but hasn't been decided if it will ever be in or not. They are focusing on story and so they would need to create a story in order for people to swap, considering the classes this would take some time. My apologies if they did say they wasn't ever going to consider it but i'm pretty sure i read they don't have plans for it just yet.
The part about WoW really isn't a big deal, people are reading far to much into that. If you still have concerns and perhaps don't know if the game will suit you, just wait until open beta. Try the game before giving up all hope, you never know.
I agree that the race/class restrictions bug me; not ALL MMOs do this btw, Rift springing to mind off the top of my head.
But for the most part these issues that are game killers for you don't really bother me that much. I think your level of IP fandom is hurting you in this case because you have a very firm idea of what a SW game should feel like to you. As a much more casual fan, I can overlook a lot more. It sucks for you, because you would probably get more enjoyment from a SW MMO that fit your criteria than I will out of TOR. But the casual player such as myself will most likely play and enjoy TOR. Sorry man.
I find my interest in ToR at an all time low, even the last holo time line video (which was a good video) seemed boring and lacking of any content to do with ToR. Having read the Hyperspace wars comics I've seen it all before.
I'm not sure though if this is a bad thing. By the looks of things the game wont make a spring release and Bioware have stopped pointing to a Spring release to encourage any lasting hope that it will. So we probably have a good 7 months to wait on the game and I would much rather be enjoying a different game for that time than checking back on the forums and going crazy waiting. Which makes a lack of interest in the game a good thing cause otherwise it makes enjoying something else if you keep compairing what your playing to the ideal of the perfectly envisiaged MMO which probably wont live up to expectations.
I think you are being too quick in writing off a game that as far as I know isn't even beta (it may be, I don't follow it religiously sorry). If you enjoy the Star Wars universe just be patient and see what happens with the game. Things change.
I can whole heartedly assure you the lore of Star Wars universe is VERY heavily watched and scrutinizied in this game. Any Star Wars game really. Lucas actually has a team whose sole purpose is to make sure that each and every Star Wars offshoot follows the restrictions to the letter.
If Bioware has chosen to do something or not do something that pertains to the lore, they have a very good reason for it otherwise Lucasarts would not allow it to happen.
why wouldn't you want to have everything wow has and more?
maybe if you're lookin for a sandbox but - you should have already known that about swtor -
I want to own property too
They should have kept this w/ a console base for one more like originally promised/meant (like warcraft was supposed to); instead the jump on the mmo bandwagon and may kill a great series.
I can understand most of what you say here, and can agree on it. With that in mind. You can still be dark sided as a jedi or light sided as empire. You can switch alignements as you please (with some work) it's just that you can't swtich from republic to empire. So you can still have a dark sided miraluka if you really want one.
Granted it's odd but they did state their reasoning on not being able to do switch sides and again (yes i know) it made the story too hard to do. It would require figuring out how to change the story once a person decided to switch. The way the game is structured you can't simply flip a switch and change sides. It requires setting the story as such that you slowly distrust your elders then commune with the other side then finally switch. Something similar to how EQ2 does it except it would have ot make sense in the story. My speculation is they want to get the game out first, THEN get things like faction switching out after the game has been out for a bit and they have more funds. Heck this project is already suppose to be nearing the most expensive to date as is. They probably don't want to go back and say Okay, we need another X Million to do this and that before release. EA and probably the investors would say no way. Just my view of it anyway.
I will say that once the story is all over that you should be able to pick up a quest later to change sides but i will also say that could be something for an expansion, kinda like how City of Heroes/Villians did it with going rogue.
I will also state that not all the race class combos are out yet. They keep hinting and even James (what was it last year) said something about twi-leks woudln't be restricted to just (edit) Smugglars.
Personaly i'd wait until the game comes out before judging it, but if you wish to stop following thats fine to. Plenty of games out there if this one doesn't hit your fancy.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Hi Charisi,
This may not change your mind, but a dev did say that jedi-consulars would be able to fall to the dark side during the course of their storyline (and it follows since we have the points system that anyone can go either way in alignment). It's true that you won't be able to switch factions back and forth, but you can have a character of whatever alignment on either faction.
Also, they haven't finished revealing all the race choices yet, I don't think - so I wouldn't get too worked up about that just yet.
We all knew for awhile that bioware was going to mimic some of the core mechanics from wow to form a basis for their game. However, that does not mean that they will evolve those same mechanics in the same way that Blizzard did. They have their own paradigm for what they want the game to be, and they'll tailor the mechanics to that.
I think you shouldn't give up just yet - but of course, it's your decision.
I'm not much of a star wars nut, but even just some of the basics surrounding this game don't appeal to me as an rpg gamer.
Bioware seem to be losing their touch as far as i'm concerned, they are more interested in mass accessibility than about making deep and enriching games.
I'll use Dragon Age for example, the first was good but not great when compared to past games (pretty much made remade NWN2 for consoles, not a bad thing, but the story was even similar just much shorter and more condenced), but DA2 is just like an over simplified slap in the face for those who are into the more "hardcore" rpg's of biowares past.
I do not see them as the gold brick ploppers as they once were, since they've seem to moved on from their original fanbase, which I consist of, and are focusing more on the market as a whole instead.
I hear what you're saying, but I really don't think it's a reason to pass the game up.
You stated that you loved almost all of the Bioware games, so that must mean you have some faith in them. TOR will rock.
Faction swapping in a faction vs. faction MMO would be terrible. I realize you're probably just looking at it from a lore standpoint. But have you looked at it from a balance standpoint? Can you imagine having people swapping factions just to be on the dominating side, creating an even bigger imbalance?
You used to be able swap factions in SWG for a fee. You could also be neutral. It worked well in that game, but then again, SWG was a different beast.
Pretty early to give up on a game such as this when you still have so much to learn about it. But I guess that's just how it is for some people.
Some of your points are very valid. Some of your points are not so valid. Of course, this game is in beta, so things may change or you may not find out if you are right or even remotely close to being right :P.
Anyways, I would think any huge Star Wars fan wouldn't be giving up this early. I'd think they'd wait it out till the game released to see.
DA2 is a huge slap in the face but its pretty obvious the real deal of bioware is working heavily on TOR. DA2 seems to be just a side project and i wouldn't be suprised if ME3 turns out the same. Its a shame but with so much riding on TOR you can start to tell its taking a toll on their other games.
The post is a pointless rant and you have misunderstood the context in which they quote WoW......
Your loss if you are a fool not to even try this game.... I think a career in Drama would suit you.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I never claimed nor infered in any part of my post that I thought and/or wanted SW:TOR to be a sandbox.
A Requiem For Argos, now available at e-book retailers.
Oh ok lets pretend you wont play it then. I didnt see you list a single gamebreaker. Some points might be annoying, but a starwars fanboi not picking up the game to at least give it a spin because of some lore stuff and minor cosmetics... ye not very likely. At least you got to vent some. Feel better now surely. You'll wake up tomorrow and realize that hey you can still pick up SWtor on release and nobody will care.
someone who believes in story more than bioware!
MY guess is the same probly as others that the sheere effort required to make a game that is just as realistic as the books is unrealsitic
for all the seemingly unlimited paths a person can think of once you think of one of those paths it'll take them weeks to resemble that one
and once they're done resembling your path - what about my path huh? What about my path! lol
No I'm going to be playing this game and having fun trying to resemble ""my path"" as much as possible with the options in the game.
'cuz if you want realistic options you'll have to walk out the front door..
I want to own property too
Well to combat such an example, there would have to be some sort of time limit on a faction swap. Say, you can only faction swap every 30-60 days or something to that effect. That way, if somone faction swaps over to be on the dominant side, they can't swap right back a week later if things change.
A Requiem For Argos, now available at e-book retailers.
Regarding faction swap I found that (at least in SWG) the more organized guilds would swap to the underdogs to balance out PvP.
No idea tho what would work in SWtor for obvious reasons =P
This is a direct question to the OP.
Alright, I'm coming from far far away from the star wars universe (Twice now, I've almost said star trek and stargate) and only briefly caught glimpses watching (Maybe the odd hour through) however, I have played KOTOR 1+2 (while I cant say it gives me huge authority or if my answers have much validity attached to them) so I do have a general knowledge.
Reading your post and looking at what seems to be our major issue, doesn't this actually fit into the general lore? I mean, look at the general star-wars universe. In general, are the species/races really divided when it comes to the republic or the sith? Not really. They pick a side. One or two tend to go 'rogue' and join the other side but in general the races are represented as either supporting the sith, or the republic. You gave both examples, but the most notable was of Anakin (Sp?), but isn't he a bad example. Humans (I'm under the assumption that both sith and republic can play as them) have fought on both sides of the coin. Now the other race you mentioned, you even said that in the series of films, at one point a significant amount helped the jedi rebuild. Now, I'm not saying ALL of that particular race supported the republic, but enough for a delegation (or a whole country for all I know) to be sent. And to be honest, any outwardly effort (in that particular universe) tends to be construed as a general declaration of "Our race's are allies. We shall help you out".
I don't have much knowledge on the game to be honest, I do hope (and expect) that one could and should be (regardless of sith/republic alligiences) light or dark. That would be something I would want above all else. Oh and world that the players can interact with and change. A static world isn't really interesting in my opinion. (The post below reminded me)
Anyway, all the best
. Try not to look too hard into one person's views (even if they are on the dev team. GIve it a try when it does come out). Maybe the dev team are divided when it comes to what they think the general direction will be, or maybe they all think it's going to follow WoW (Though to be fair and even though I dislike WoW, Some of it's particular features have attracted many people to its game. If they improve on certain features and make it more geared towards an adult market, I can't say I'd complain. Though I dont think I want WoW...The adult version. I do understand why you would be worried though, but hell, just give it a try and watch some gameplay videos 
Just me looking at a random post that came up on the screen.
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