Why can't other mmos borrow from this instead of WoW?

adam_nox

Even DCUO is more a copy of WoW than a copy of CoH.  Questgrinding, fedexing and kill/collect X over and over again.  An endgame with umpteen different currencies and factions you have to grind out for uber gear so people will accept you into their heroic groups for yet more gear, in dungeons that are more stressful and epeen measuring than relaxed fun.  No pvp zones, just little minigames that mean nothing and also turn into a grind because the objectives and team compositions remain the same.

 

This model sucks, there was a short period of time (before pvp was ruined utterly) when CoH really did about everything right.  It made it's own path, set it's own standards, and people wanted to form full groups all the time, and I don't mean 5, I mean 8.  And running through missions with 7 others is so much more fun than anything found in WoW or DCUO or Rift, and it's just sad that other mmos have to suck the frickin life out of the roots of the mmo genre. 

 

People want to have fun, and RPGs are often tourist games, not hardcore games.  Somehow the fps hardcore mode mentality infiltrated the genre and has basically ruined every mmo sense.  So depressing.

Castillle

I know right?  CoX was incredibly fun! The team dynamics were great although its extremely aoe dependent.  A little more variety in the way enemies were placed and in the instances wouldve been great!  Granted the enging IS old and they probably cant make huge alterations in how the mapmaker is, its still a really really good system!

 

The name City of Heroes 2 was copyrighted so theres hope that CoX 2 with an upgraded system comes out! In like...4 years -.-

 

But yah! I loved a lot about City of Heroes....I actually bought it twice (One for EU and one for US because EU was empty..) and Srsly!  The guild HQ!! That was awesome! I had this awesome house I made just for me and my ex there! >.<  Street sweeping was fun too! The emotes, etc...

 

We need moar City of Heroes Clones!!!!! 

Edit :

Nothing screams pwn more than being a healer then taking out your machine gun and using Full Auto....Every 16 seconds @_@

Endo13

Because once you've done the random door missions often enough you realize they're not really so different from each other. After a while they all are basically the same: tank runs in, and everyone else lays down their AOE. Then you pick off the straglers. Rinse and repeat. Over and over again. Even most of the different groups of enemies have little difference besides the names and models. Sure, there's a few that are a little more different like the Master Illusionists of the Carnies, but even those are only a little more difficult to kill. Don't really require any significantly different strategy. And then there's the missions themselves... sooo little variety, even compared to most themepark MMOs. About 99% of them are one of three: get the glowies, kill the mobs, or escort the NPCs. Yawn.

CoX did really well at about two things: character customization and powersets. The rest of it gets old pretty fast actually. There's really nothing to play around with besides powersets. Crafting is, well, not even as good as WoW. And that's it. There's not much to explore, and what there is can be covered in a few hours, thanks to super-fast travel speeds. There's no little mini-games like fishing. Very few truly interesting dungeon type of encounters.

But damn, the powersets are amazing. THAT is what needs to be copied by other games. Not necessarily those powersets in particular, but the vast amount of them, the things you can do with them, and most importantly the pools that can be used by any class or archetype.

Castillle

Originally posted by Endo13

Because once you've done the random door missions often enough you realize they're not really so different from each other. After a while they all are basically the same: tank runs in, and everyone else lays down their AOE. Then you pick off the straglers. Rinse and repeat. Over and over again. Even most of the different groups of enemies have little difference besides the names and models. Sure, there's a few that are a little more different like the Master Illusionists of the Carnies, but even those are only a little more difficult to kill. Don't really require any significantly different strategy. And then there's the missions themselves... sooo little variety, even compared to most themepark MMOs. About 99% of them are one of three: get the glowies, kill the mobs, or escort the NPCs. Yawn.
CoX did really well at about two things: character customization and powersets. The rest of it gets old pretty fast actually. There's really nothing to play around with besides powersets. Crafting is, well, not even as good as WoW. And that's it. There's not much to explore, and what there is can be covered in a few hours, thanks to super-fast travel speeds. There's no little mini-games like fishing. Very few truly interesting dungeon type of encounters.
But damn, the powersets are amazing. THAT is what needs to be copied by other games. Not necessarily those powersets in particular, but the vast amount of them, the things you can do with them, and most importantly the pools that can be used by any class or archetype.

 

thats why i said add more varieties in the missions and enemies so its not always too aoe focused its the same for themeparks though! Go there kill x, escort x, collect x, talk to y, deliver to z, etc. They just change the backgrounds~

gurugeorge

Yeah, when I look back on all the MMORPGs I've ever played, CoX stands out as one of the best.

For me, it only got "repetitive" after 2 years, which I think is pretty good going.  Most other MMOs I've gotten bored with after a few months.

Reason why is, CoX is (or was in its heyday) actually one of the most social MMOs on the market. 

I think CoX's big secret was basically the fact that the combat experience was fine tunable in terms of difficulty, which meant it was easy enough for people to talk while fighting, if the combat was pitched right.  If a team is inattentive or sloppy, there's still danger; but most teams most of the time can pull through most content, if you got the difficulty setting right for the team combination.  (This is through the levelling - at max level, everything was pretty much a pushover even on highest difficulty, except TFs).

Or to put it another way: for me as a casual player who can't really put huge amounts of time into these games, and can't really afford time or energy to commit to guilds, CoX, out of all MMOs on the market, has given me the most social gameplaying experience of the lot.  I've had more chatting and playing fun in it than any other MMO - all other MMOs seem to be geared to the "casual = solo" mentality.  CoX allowed casual players to have a social gaming experience within a few minutes of logging in.  Guaranteed.  Every time.  For many years.

But yeah, eventually the combat, good as it is, does get old.  But not especially any more so than most other MMOs - it's just that other MMOs have more other stuff to do to compensate.  CoX just lacked ""depth" (i.e. other stuff to do, the feel of a single seamless world, stuff like that).

Yamota

Well the answer is quite obvious no? WoW has 10+ million subs and CoX has less than 200k.

But I agree with you, CoX is/was a more fun game than WoW.

Robsolf

I did enjoy CoH for its time, and there are alot of good aspects to it.  My problem with it was that the instance stuff, aka the meat and potatoes of the game, were remarkably weak in variety after and got tedious after a while.  Every time I play... mostly on the free weekends, anymore, I think:  "If I have to go into one more stinking cave...".

But I do like that, while it doesn't go as far as I'd like, that there is SOME semblence of power customization in the game.  For the most part, I felt it was much better that CO's, as enhancements could truly make the stats of your powers unique.

So basically, I could get my character almost exactly the way I wanted, but the stuff to do got dull after a while.  Once you've seen one cave you've seen them all.  One Office building.  One warehouse.  One arachnos lair... etc...

Castillle

Originally posted by Robsolf

I did enjoy CoH for its time, and there are alot of good aspects to it.  My problem with it was that the instance stuff, aka the meat and potatoes of the game, were remarkably weak in variety after and got tedious after a while.  Every time I play... mostly on the free weekends, anymore, I think:  "If I have to go into one more stinking cave...".

But I do like that, while it doesn't go as far as I'd like, that there is SOME semblence of power customization in the game.  For the most part, I felt it was much better that CO's, as enhancements could truly make the stats of your powers unique.

So basically, I could get my character almost exactly the way I wanted, but the stuff to do got dull after a while.  Once you've seen one cave you've seen them all.  One Office building.  One warehouse.  One arachnos lair... etc...

This was my problem too >.< It was fun but if there were a much bigger variety and a better map generator for the instances, it would be totally awesome!

 

A more rigid way of handling travel powers and more 3 dimensional maps would be great.  Granted that it IS tough to make a random map generator that would make epic maps, a game that focuses on randomly generated maps should have a much better system in place.  But then again CoX came out YEARS ago and that we should just expect it for CoX 2 @_@ Coming out soon I hope!

Endo13

Originally posted by Castillle

Originally posted by Endo13

Because once you've done the random door missions often enough you realize they're not really so different from each other. After a while they all are basically the same: tank runs in, and everyone else lays down their AOE. Then you pick off the straglers. Rinse and repeat. Over and over again. Even most of the different groups of enemies have little difference besides the names and models. Sure, there's a few that are a little more different like the Master Illusionists of the Carnies, but even those are only a little more difficult to kill. Don't really require any significantly different strategy. And then there's the missions themselves... sooo little variety, even compared to most themepark MMOs. About 99% of them are one of three: get the glowies, kill the mobs, or escort the NPCs. Yawn.

CoX did really well at about two things: character customization and powersets. The rest of it gets old pretty fast actually. There's really nothing to play around with besides powersets. Crafting is, well, not even as good as WoW. And that's it. There's not much to explore, and what there is can be covered in a few hours, thanks to super-fast travel speeds. There's no little mini-games like fishing. Very few truly interesting dungeon type of encounters.

But damn, the powersets are amazing. THAT is what needs to be copied by other games. Not necessarily those powersets in particular, but the vast amount of them, the things you can do with them, and most importantly the pools that can be used by any class or archetype.

 

thats why i said add more varieties in the missions and enemies so its not always too aoe focused its the same for themeparks though! Go there kill x, escort x, collect x, talk to y, deliver to z, etc. They just change the backgrounds~

Yeah, but that doesn't solve the core problem that makes CoX's door missions boring after leveling 1 or 2 characters: random-generated instances are just way less meaningful. Especially when they use one of only a few dozen different prefabbed tilesets and map layouts. Once you've seen the exact same warehouse map for the hundredth time it just doesn't matter what else you change any more. It's no longer interesting at all.

CoH is the one game I really wish I could go back and enjoy again... but I just can't. What it offers just isn't fun any more. I've done the same crap too often. And I've played it for probably about a third the amount of time as WoW. And I'd still be playing WoW if they hadn't decided to throw any pretense of class balance out the window.

therain93

Originally posted by adam_nox

Even DCUO is more a copy of WoW than a copy of CoH.  Questgrinding, fedexing and kill/collect X over and over again.  An endgame with umpteen different currencies and factions you have to grind out for uber gear so people will accept you into their heroic groups for yet more gear, in dungeons that are more stressful and epeen measuring than relaxed fun.  No pvp zones, just little minigames that mean nothing and also turn into a grind because the objectives and team compositions remain the same.

 

This model sucks, there was a short period of time (before pvp was ruined utterly) when CoH really did about everything right.  It made it's own path, set it's own standards, and people wanted to form full groups all the time, and I don't mean 5, I mean 8.  And running through missions with 7 others is so much more fun than anything found in WoW or DCUO or Rift, and it's just sad that other mmos have to suck the frickin life out of the roots of the mmo genre. 

 

People want to have fun, and RPGs are often tourist games, not hardcore games.  Somehow the fps hardcore mode mentality infiltrated the genre and has basically ruined every mmo sense.  So depressing.

While I'm a huge fan of CoH, it has many of those WoW traits as well -- fedexing/kill x.  It also has multiple currencies, inf, prestige, reward merits, vanguard merits, alignment merits plus varieties of salvage. I think the alighment-based missions are the real big step forward in terms of story/morality, although one could argue it's nothing more than a glorified faction meter as well...

I think more games should be stealing CoH's systems.  (Super-)sidekicking, team finding, communication, the consignment house, the invention system (if an mmo won't adopt a more collaborative crafting system like swg), the customization system....  Those are the gems.

Wicoa

Id like to big up the content coming too what they are focusing on is 30min - 1h content that is challenging and not a walk over but people can fit into an evening and repeat different things if they wish.  I like this

I also like the fact that in city of heroes if you do something for merits or endgame reasons everyone gets something at the end your not wasting your time 4 hour raiding coming out with nothing on the hope that you may get ur % chance item drop. Theres no arguements in city of heroes over LOOTZZZZZ.  You kind of know what you are going to gain when you set out on your evenings adventure.

Castillle

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by adam_nox

Even DCUO is more a copy of WoW than a copy of CoH.  Questgrinding, fedexing and kill/collect X over and over again.  An endgame with umpteen different currencies and factions you have to grind out for uber gear so people will accept you into their heroic groups for yet more gear, in dungeons that are more stressful and epeen measuring than relaxed fun.  No pvp zones, just little minigames that mean nothing and also turn into a grind because the objectives and team compositions remain the same.

 

This model sucks, there was a short period of time (before pvp was ruined utterly) when CoH really did about everything right.  It made it's own path, set it's own standards, and people wanted to form full groups all the time, and I don't mean 5, I mean 8.  And running through missions with 7 others is so much more fun than anything found in WoW or DCUO or Rift, and it's just sad that other mmos have to suck the frickin life out of the roots of the mmo genre. 

 

People want to have fun, and RPGs are often tourist games, not hardcore games.  Somehow the fps hardcore mode mentality infiltrated the genre and has basically ruined every mmo sense.  So depressing.

While I'm a huge fan of CoH, it has many of those WoW traits as well -- fedexing/kill x.  It also has multiple currencies, inf, prestige, reward merits, vanguard merits, alignment merits plus varieties of salvage. I think the alighment-based missions are the real big step forward in terms of story/morality, although one could argue it's nothing more than a glorified faction meter as well...

I think more games should be stealing CoH's systems.  (Super-)sidekicking, team finding, communication, the consignment house, the invention system (if an mmo won't adopt a more collaborative crafting system like swg), the customization system....  Those are the gems.

Just saying..CoX had merits BEFORE WoW

therain93

Originally posted by Castillle

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by adam_nox

Even DCUO is more a copy of WoW than a copy of CoH.  Questgrinding, fedexing and kill/collect X over and over again.  An endgame with umpteen different currencies and factions you have to grind out for uber gear so people will accept you into their heroic groups for yet more gear, in dungeons that are more stressful and epeen measuring than relaxed fun.  No pvp zones, just little minigames that mean nothing and also turn into a grind because the objectives and team compositions remain the same.

 

This model sucks, there was a short period of time (before pvp was ruined utterly) when CoH really did about everything right.  It made it's own path, set it's own standards, and people wanted to form full groups all the time, and I don't mean 5, I mean 8.  And running through missions with 7 others is so much more fun than anything found in WoW or DCUO or Rift, and it's just sad that other mmos have to suck the frickin life out of the roots of the mmo genre. 

 

People want to have fun, and RPGs are often tourist games, not hardcore games.  Somehow the fps hardcore mode mentality infiltrated the genre and has basically ruined every mmo sense.  So depressing.

While I'm a huge fan of CoH, it has many of those WoW traits as well -- fedexing/kill x.  It also has multiple currencies, inf, prestige, reward merits, vanguard merits, alignment merits plus varieties of salvage. I think the alighment-based missions are the real big step forward in terms of story/morality, although one could argue it's nothing more than a glorified faction meter as well...

I think more games should be stealing CoH's systems.  (Super-)sidekicking, team finding, communication, the consignment house, the invention system (if an mmo won't adopt a more collaborative crafting system like swg), the customization system....  Those are the gems.

Just saying..CoX had merits BEFORE WoW

My point was merely that CoX has multiple currencies as well -- the op was trying to contrast with DCUO, but many of the things cited are actually commonalities ( ' :

shane782

A game like COH would be bada55 if it was sandbox with open pvp with player housing......... DCUO is a good start but hopefully marvel will jump on the online bandwagon and blow it out.

therain93

Originally posted by shane782

A game like COH would be bada55 if it was sandbox with open pvp with player housing......... DCUO is a good start but hopefully marvel will jump on the online bandwagon and blow it out.

Marvel online...take...3?  Anyway, hopefully the Marvel Developers actually look at what works and what doesn't (hint if you're reading this: extensive content is a must!)