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GW2 Skill system
EQ2Thanos
Member UncommonPosts: 55
To me this skill system is no good in an mmo and will kill this game for many players.I feel it is aimed at the casual gamer so that its easy to play and takes away from the skill of learning many abilities of a class.I don't buy into the 'well you pick your skills for the situation' rubbish.If you know how to do something you know how to do it.Playing a class should be an art not clicking on 5-10 buttons,less buttons=more button bashing.
All in all though I guess by being B2P does = casual gaming so it will be worth buying just for a change from the subscription game I play at the time.Just my personal thoughts on the matter I don't mean to offend anyone 
Comments
IB the shit storm.
p.s. the real time dodging, the high paced combat and synergies between abilities and classes should be able to fill that void nicely I reckon.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Go play the original gw and tell me with only 8 skills the combat is dumbed down. In fact, gw has one of the deepeest learning curves when it comes to the combat and some of the most complex setups in any game out there that rely on synergy of teams. There is no "button mashing" like there is in game where you just have all your abilities on your bar. And it also makes most mmo combat seem simplified.
There was a reason people say the pvp ins gw was awesome. That's why I don't buy this.
Also, the combat actually requires postioning , dodging, ect so pressing numbers on your hotbar is not the only part of combat.
I for one think you are very wrong i think this system is perfect for this mmo because of the active combat but in other mmos like wow or anything like it you'er right i wont work but for GW2 i think you will be suprised and will come to love it like alot of people
1. You've never played Guild Wars, or at least, very much of it, have you?
2. Each character has a LOT more than just '5-10' skills available in combat.
3. There's a lot of positional things going on (Especially dodging) that is going to make the fight have more aspects than just your hotkeys.
4. In many MMORPGs, you don't even USE most of the skills you have access to, most of the time. They're either suboptimal compared to other skills available, or they're incredibly situational, or they're not even designed for use in combat.
5. Don't worry, being uninformed on the game doesn't offend anybody.
I'm a long time GW player, and I'm happy with the new system. Makes combat much more interesting, since you can switch weapons during combat which changes half of your skill bar and you combat style. Can't wait to try PvP in gw2.
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
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There is only one way to have an mmo, any other way or mechanic is wrong.
Yes,lets hope your right and in group combat the tank dosn't hold aggro while pressing 5 buttons while all the other group stands around pressing thier 5 buttons.
Like we've said... Go play guild wars (which has smaller bars, and which does not have real-time dodging ect that gw2 has) and tell us how dumbed down it is.
Or just stop trolling.
... are you describing EQ2?
Sorry, not too familiar with which game you're describing right there.
More buttons = automagically better!
I mean really, have you been in a limo?? so many more buttons than your average car! WINN!!!
How can voicing my worries then agreeing with DarkPony about combat movement etcetera be considered trolling?
I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Having played the original GW I can confidently say that it has one of the more tactical/strategic combat that I have ever played in an MMO and that is of course taking into account the old school combat (it's basically like lineage you can't move while attacking). Now add to this the positioning, skill combos, skill combinations across classes, dodging and all the other combat flavors that GW2 adds over its predecessor and there you have my answer.
EDIT: I have no idea why I answered this calmly, your logic is beyond invalid, my safe conclusion is that GW2 will have the most strategic combat in the history of MMOs (followed by SWTOR if its cover mechanic proves its worth).
EDIT2: I forgot to say that your skills change if you swap your weapon (which you can do on the run), or your attunements if you are an elementalist....
I strongly advise you to do a 5 minute research before hitting the new thread button next time.
Yeah I'm confused, I've never, NEVER, played a game where I actually used more than 8 to 10 buttons (10 is stretching), so I'm not sure how your logic fits in. Maybe I'm just simple when it comes to games, I've never rocked EQ2, Darkfall, AoC, or DAoC, but I'm not sure in those games being able to use 30 abilities is ever a main selling point in reality.
Edit: oh yeah I forgot FLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME
First off, go back into any game you have played and ask your self how many skills do you actually use on a regular basis. I bet it is less than 15. Yeah that's right I said 15 because in GW2 you don't have 10 skills immediately available at a time, but 15. The extra 5 comes from the second weapon set you have equiped.
Next, realize that so long as you are not in combat you can change those last 5 skills to any of the ones available to choose from. Oh wait, that means I actually have all the skills available to me, just they aren't all available during combat.
Next look at how many skills are available for GW2 vs other MMOs. I'll use WoW as an example. GW2 Warrior has 46 weapon skills, 19 utility/heal/elite skills. That's 65 skills. WoW Warrior has 50 standard and 11 talented abilities. Thats 61. Oh wait... GW2 has 4 more skills and yes every one can be used, unlike in WoW were you are limited based on your talent build. Now add to that GW2 Racial skills and you have even more chioces.
All GW2 is doing is cutting down the clutter of useless or situation skills. It stream lines the UI so you can pay attention to the thing that matters, the game happening infront of you. No more UI watching, which let's face it, most MMOs have become just that. I could run any PvE fight without looking at the actual screen, just the UI and text alerts. This way, playing the character/profession can become more of an art and less a game of wack-a-mole.
That's the funny thing though. I'm only going to do this math ONCE,s ince I did this in another thread, and I don't want to go through all the classes, but...
... Elementalist wielding a staff. How many skills do they have?
Well, buttons 1-5 are their first five combat skills. 6 is a heal. 7-9 are utility skills. 10 is the elite skill.
So 10 skills, right? Well... let's look a little further. The 'F' key can be used to revive people (I think it's F. I might have gotten the key wrong). So that's an 11th ability.
Okay, so F1-F4 changes you into various attunements, allowing access to other elements using the same weapon. Also, when you change attunements, there's an initial power-activation ability. So that's 4 more skills. Up to 15!
Except when I listed buttons 1-5, that was only 1 out of 4 attunements. So there's another 15.
Hey presto. 30 abilities. Using 15 keys. 1-10, F1-F4 and F.
Oh, and there's other things they can do, like if they pick up a boulder, they can cast that as a spell... or other environmental weapon effects.
... plus spells they lay down like fire wall or static field can be fired through by ranged attacker classes, to add elemental damage. Which means rather than simply using abilities, they're a better class if they synergize.
... but uh, anyway, 30 abilities. Main selling point for GW2. You heard it here first!
Seriously? 8-10 buttons is similar to my assassins (eq2) stealth chain+fatal followup alone
Yeah, like I said, I haven't played any of the older or olderesque games. It's great I guess in some ways, but honeslty as the game engines get more realistic, combo mechanics like that will go the way of the dinosaur. As physics get applied you'll see less just pushing a string of buttons and more attack defend in real time I think.
Wow, I absolutely hate when games have multiple hotbars full of skills to use, that doesn't make it any more strategic or hard, it just makes things more tedius.
Man you have to understand than the usual tab targeting combat system full of useless skills cannot be ported on a more fps combat system at all. In fps like combat all your finger are already in use for the movement since there is not click to point system. This mean you can only have very few skill available. This is quiet the opposite way of thinking for those 2 type of combat system.
If you can't understand what i mean go play some fps game and imagine yourself with a f1-12 and 1-12 + atl 1-12; ctrl 1-12 key binding for all your useless mmo skills and try to put your finger on those. Just go and try it you will understand what i'm talking about. You just don't have enough fingers to use them.
In a fps like combat system you need very few and effective skill, the choice can be way larger than what you will use, but the few yuu will use must be your bomb so to speak. In fact in fsp comabt youdon't have skill but weapons to change. So ye GW2 try to mix that up a bit, but still have to reduce the number of skill to the weapon because of it.
Well despite my concerns i will be playing GW2 and hope your all right.I really do need a good new mmo to sink my teeth into:)
OP, sounds like you're in the mood.. Here's an old list for the first 4 profs:
Profession
Total Skills
Available Range
2 Weapon Sets
Elementalist
60
(5*4)+4
24 same: has x1 weapon slot
Warrior
52
5+(3 from 3)
16
Ranger
31
5+(4 from 8/pet*3 from 12)
17 (19 for the swd combo)
Necromancer
20
5+(6 from 6 +"3")
16 (6+3 from minions)
Skills on the LHS are Weapon Skills only + [utility, heal & elite] +5 more to the "always available" number you see in the 2 sets column. Ok that's clear. I think the other question is how well balanced those available skill combinations are? No idea until we see more of the game or actually play it. But I'm assuming (when you add in all combinations, attributes, traits and various scenarios) it amounts to a large statistic... So to go on arguing how the skills are 5 + 5 on the skill bar only goes so far to predicting the complexity of combat I would say? Worrying just leads to worrying is the alternative.
edit: format
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I'm confused by your stated concerns.
Your assassin apparently has 38 combat abilities (Give or take). An elementalist has 30 =in combat=. Outside of combat, they have quite a few more to pick from. Another 30 or so utility/heal/elite skills, and 40 more attacks. So they have over TWICE as many skills to pick from, but only 10 less they can actually use at any given time.
This means you have to know what =100= different abilities are (Rather than a mere 38), AND you have to have the foresight and planning to pick out the best 30 for what content you're doing.
Shouldn't your concern actually be that it's much more complex than EQ2, and you'll now have the shameful opportunity to mess up and bring the wrong abilities and have everybody be disappointed at how poorly you've picked?
Oh, also there's no aggro management, because the enemies tend to pick targets they're most likely to kill (Which is where movement comes in handy, and dodging. Silly badguys, attacking the person who DIES easier. What kind of an AI is that, not attacking the person designated by aggro management?
). So several of the assassin abilities don't even work in the GW2 mechanism. Though I guess you could say they cancel out the need for dodge abilities (Albeit in a less dynamic way)
Though that would leave the assassin with a positively mild 35 skills. :<
Please, given your updated knowledge, explain your concerns again, so I can allay them with further information?
Information is your friend.
O.o this looks good,I was thinking you just had 1 hotbar and 5 abilities to press and the other 5 were passive.Well thanks for the info
I don't think you are aware of the Guild Wars 2 combat system. I recommend going to Anet's blog (www.arena.net/blog), Guild Wars 2 Guru (www.guildwars2guru.com), or view the thread at the top of the forum. Please read the combat system first.
As for the skill bar, play Guild Wars 1. You will realize just how complex a limited skill bar can be. What you take on defense, you are gimping yourself on offense, and vice versa.
EDIT: i didn't see your last post. Now that you have an idea of what it's like, you should realize the system is far more complex. Guild Wars 2 attempts to make it a little easier for new players by making half your bar determined by your weapon. they added more complexity by adding the trait system, which can give you completely new skills.
Ah, no. Actually, there's no passive skills you put on your skillbar, anywhere in GW2.
There are passive traits that are used, which I wasn't listing when I was counting skills. Also, some skills have a passive ability until you activate them, in which case they have a different activation ability, but the passive ability is cancelled out until the cooldown recharges.
(Like there's a heal that gives regen until you activate it for a big health boost)
You might be confusing it with The Secret World, where you have 14 abilities... 7 active and 7 passive.
By the way, traits adds a WHOLE other layer of complexity to the skills, so it can get pretty scary just how much customizing there is. ... and you still have a surprisingly big chunk of abilities to use in combat once you've selected what you're using at the moment.
Also, a lot of situational skills like ones that have different effects if you attack somebody from the front, the sides or the back.