The complain they can't keep up with teh "hardcore" players.
But if you measure your character by HOURS PLAYED IN THE GAME, that's not true at all.
If all 40 hour characters are equal, and that's how you measure your character, by HOURS PLAYED IN THE GAME, then no one can ever pass you in leveling or gear, or get ahead of you, or level faster than you.
Your 40 your character will be roughly the same as all players that have been in the game playing for 40 hours.
So how is the "hardcore" player leveling "faster" than you are?
Because you are measuring the progression terms of REAL LIFE TIME, not HOURS PLAYED IN THE GAME.
It's wacky because nobody says 'I think that I should have to own the game for 30 days, in order to hit the 30 day content point'. They either want content gated lower (Less max amount of hours needed to reach that point), based off of purchase (I own the game, therefore I should be able to access all content, not because I owned the game for 30 days), or based off of skill.
You don't hear a lot of people saying 'I owned the game for 60 days, I should be superior to the guy who owned the game for 30 days!'.
If I'm wrong and that's the majority viewpoint, feel free to point out where people are saying that, but I think you're dividing people into an artificial camp that is actually relatively small (The amount of people who say things like 'I've owned WoW for a year, so I should be better than people who owned it for 6 months, but not as good as people who owned it for two years.)
Of course you hear that.
It's phrased like this.
Why should I play a P2P game?
The people that play more than me are "hardcore" and that's not fair. I don't have that kind of TIME!
I should be able to buy xp potions or gear, and progress as fast as I want to!
But if you measure your character in hours played, EVERYONE has the same amount of time.
What difference does it make if your character levels up in a week, a month, or a year?
When you've played the game 40 hours, you've played the game 40 hours.
Isn't that the way a Single Player game works?
You buy the game knowing it has a certain amount of content, and that you want to play through it.
Often the content is rated in hourse of game play.
You know that if you like the game, you'll play the whole thing, and it will require a certain number of hours.
It doesn't matter of you play it all in a week, or it takes a couple of months, or you put it down, don't play for 6 months, then decide to play again.
Either way, you'll play for the same amount of hours more or less, and that will determine your characters progression.
KOTOR, Fallout, etc. You're going to get roughly X hours of game play before you max out your character.
But some people don't play an MMORPG the same way.
They go, but that player over there has been playing for a month, and now he's 40th level!
I don't have that kind of TIME to play 40 hours a week and get to 40th level in one month!
I should be able to speed up the game play, so I get to 40th level with LESs than 160 hours of game play! I need to by xp potions or gear so I can catch up!
You're measuring your character by REAL TIME, a real life MONTH.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I almost said 'With a tape measure'. I think this topic is attracting a lot of smartasses.
Sorry I had to leave the discussion earlier, at work and duty called. I was in no way trying to be a smartass. I have a great deal of respect for most posters on this site. I do have an unfortunate tendency to be a smartass without realizing it, just pity my wife!
When I play a game, I like to play for certain moments, let me explain. In vanilla WoW, my "main" was an enhanced shaman, the glass cannon. I would play for the moment when windfury would proc on a big 2-handed weapon. I might die in a battleground 10 times to get there, or be low man dps in a dungeon but, if I could get to that moment where I could see those big game changing numbers on my screen, it made me happy. Simple pleasures I guess. That being said, I would farm gear/gold etc. to get me to those moments. That, to me, was character progression.
I only really measure my character in a numerical sense when I need to compare stats against other characters, in-game challenges or explain to other people how much and what kind of effort I've put into playing an MMO with said character. What numbers I use depends on the situation. It could be level, gear, skillpoints, time played etc. Doesn't really matter whether I'm playing something hardcore or casually. I expect to find my character roughly in the condition I left him/her in, depending on how much game updates have changed class, skills, gear etc. since the last time I had a chance to play with the character.
But all those numbers are of little actual importance to me. I don't wake up in the morning and say to myself "Dude, I have over 100 days played, all skills maxed, most factions maxed, full tier whatever raid gear and some ungodly number of PvP kills on my main character, thus my main character is awesome".
To be honest, the first thing that went through my head when I saw the title of the post was...
I measure my character by how attached I am to the character.
...and I think I'm going to stick with that first thought even though it's going to horrify all those munchkin min/maxers who thinks the length of your virtual thingy is all that matters
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
I should be able to buy xp potions or gear, and progress as fast as I want to!
Ah. I see. Your problem is that some people have more money than you, and that makes you angry.
Say no more. That IS a tragic problem, I have that problem all the time.
The only method of measuring worth should definitely be by how much spare time you have. Measuring by real life skill, or money, or anything that can be achieved by being a better person in real life is unfair.
though i've been playing some games for more than 6 hours a day for months on end i never felt like i 'had to measured my character in time' at all because it's not like i usually have some long term goal in game , i just want to have fun at the times i play.
sometimes i feel like doing nothing particularly usefull for my character and sometimes i'll enjoy leveling like hell. the only time when i'll start to wander about how my character is doing is when i'm forced to compare to others but the goal is most of the time not even competition but just to keep on track with others i want to socialize with, so the quality time.
so rather than thinking in terms of 'measuring my character by amounts time' i think in time spend in game (which is last time i checked still the same value as the amount of real time spend on a game) as being a measure for 'amount of fun i had' in the whole game and not particularly to measure how powerfull a character has become.
Depends on the MMO. You use RPG's as a measuring stick which is logical. However, this question is so dependent on WHAT game you are playing, it is almost too broad of a question. I read through your choices, and tbh..I don't know. I have been subscribed to EvE since 2006, have many skills trained to V...yet I don't feel omnipotent.
I played DF for about 14 months..had a few specializations to near 100...and I felt like I could kick the crap out of just about anyone in 1 vs 1. I never, ever feel like this in EvE. Just too many variables. I would agree that in RPG's you gain levels so therefore that is the built in measuring stick. If they didn't have levels, would you play it? Would you if they didn't have a quantitative way to measure your abilities/skills? I don't think that would work.
I personally loathe levels, or at least it showing up "hovering" over your toons head, like in City of Heroes. I felt that was idiotic. Darkfall has this right. I still don't really have a good answer other than I don't really measure my toon in killboard kills, max skills etc...I measure him/her by my confidence to use them in PvP.
I guess in a PvE centric game, i.e. LOTRO I would measure him/her as how they would work in a group.
If it is an industrialist/crafter type..then I measure them by their ability to build quality gear.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
The complain they can't keep up with teh "hardcore" players.
But if you measure your character by HOURS PLAYED IN THE GAME, that's not true at all.
If all 40 hour characters are equal, and that's how you measure your character, by HOURS PLAYED IN THE GAME, then no one can ever pass you in leveling or gear, or get ahead of you, or level faster than you.
Your 40 your character will be roughly the same as all players that have been in the game playing for 40 hours.
So how is the "hardcore" player leveling "faster" than you are?
Because you are measuring the progression terms of REAL LIFE TIME, not HOURS PLAYED IN THE GAME.
It's wacky because nobody says 'I think that I should have to own the game for 30 days, in order to hit the 30 day content point'. They either want content gated lower (Less max amount of hours needed to reach that point), based off of purchase (I own the game, therefore I should be able to access all content, not because I owned the game for 30 days), or based off of skill.
You don't hear a lot of people saying 'I owned the game for 60 days, I should be superior to the guy who owned the game for 30 days!'.
If I'm wrong and that's the majority viewpoint, feel free to point out where people are saying that, but I think you're dividing people into an artificial camp that is actually relatively small (The amount of people who say things like 'I've owned WoW for a year, so I should be better than people who owned it for 6 months, but not as good as people who owned it for two years.)
ER....have you ever played EVE, where in fact, the above scenario you described is pretty much true?
Real time training of skill points means a character who's been paying for 2 years has more available skills (or power if you will) than a person wilth 6 months and less than a 6 year player. There are mechanics in place to balance the impact so a 6 month character can compete on specific levels but make no mistake, real time rules all.
You could argue that those who play do get an advantage of ISK, but even that can be bought by trading it for PLEX.
And I prefer this system, finally solves the problem I've always had with MMO's, that they normally reward people who have more free time to play them vs those of use with real life limitations.
Its also a major reason why a person like the OP hates a system like this, sort of the polar opposite in perspective and expectations.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I measure my character based on the quests he's done adn the adventures he has been on.
I have a funny story.
Back in WoW:The Burning Crusade, there was a pretty long and epic quest chain in Shadowmoon Valley, about a demon hunter trained by Illidan himself, who supposedly became mroe powerful than even his own master through a demonic book called the Book of Fel Names. I went through dank dungeon and hardy boss to get this book and then when it came time for the showdown, I could not get a party to slay him.
During the fight, when his HP reaches 50% he Metamorphs into his Demon Form and becomes immune to literally EVERYTHING, at which point you have to rip up the book in his presence to deprive him of his powers.
Well, an Alliance party came up to fight him, and noticed I was party less. Instead of slaying me outright, they actually helped me fight him. They tagged him, but apparently you could still get credit for the kill if you were nearby or something. So he gets to 50%, becomes Immune, then I start shreddin' the book.
Something went wrong, but I didn't notice just yet. The boss died, I got credit and the Alliance party went abut their merry way. When I look in my inventory, there is now two copies of the Book. Probably a glitch from fighting two factions or something. When I turned in the quest, the questgiver only took one of the Books.
I sill have the item and I carry it in my inventory everywhere :P
I like to think my character made a copy of the book and is now more powerful than Illidan XD
ER....have you ever played EVE, where in fact, the above scenario you described is pretty much true?
Real time training of skill points means a character who's been paying for 2 years has more available skills (or power if you will) than a person wilth 6 months and less than a 6 year player. There are mechanics in place to balance the impact so a 6 month character can compete on specific levels but make no mistake, real time rules all.
Hmmm, I was under the impression that while real time is a FACTOR, that player skill was a huge part of it too, and that simply playing real life for 1 year instead of 6 months was far from a guaranteed win, or even close.
I should be able to buy xp potions or gear, and progress as fast as I want to!
Ah. I see. Your problem is that some people have more money than you, and that makes you angry.
Say no more. That IS a tragic problem, I have that problem all the time.
The only method of measuring worth should definitely be by how much spare time you have. Measuring by real life skill, or money, or anything that can be achieved by being a better person in real life is unfair.
you're almost there, but not quite.
You're thinking one way of playing the game superior to another.
Like F2P games with cash shops are superior, OR, P2P games with no cash shops are superior.
I'm saying they are EQUAL. Neither is superior to the other.
However, different players enjoy one or the other.
IMO, the reason is how you percieve your character.
If you perceive your character like a SINGLE PLAYER game, no one in the game in a P2P game, can level faster than you.
It's not possible.
your character at 40 hours played will be like most characters at 40 hours played.
Just like if you and I bought KOTOR and played that game.
WE'd both finish the game, in about the same amount of hours.
If you did it all in a week, and it took me a month, I wouldn't think you were "hardcore", I wouldn't think you were "outleveling" me.
I'd think when I've played the game the same amount of hours as you, I'll have finished the game too. I didn't play the game any faster or slower than you. I played the same amount of hours, to get to the same place.
Do you care your friend finished KOTOR in a month, and you finished in two months? I don't think anyone is going to say that.
HOWEVER, in MMORPGs SOME players don't look at their character like a Single Player game. They compare to OTHER PLAYERS, and what THEY do in a REAL LIFE MONTH.
So they want to be the same place you are, in a REAL LIFE MONTH, regardless of HOURS PLAYED. How can you do that? In a F2P game, you can buy xp potions and gear.
In a P2P game, there's not much you can do about that if you don't play the game.
You're think one is BETTER than the other.
I"m just saying different people perceive their characters differently, and that perception leads them to prefer one style of play over another.
There's nothing wrong with spending money to level faster. IF you view your character in terms of REAL LIFE TIME, like one REAL LIFE MONTH.
However, if you view your character in terms of HOURS PLAYED, a cash shop to speed up game play is not necessary.
EVERYONE IS EQUAL in terms of HOURS PLAYED INSIDE THE GAME.
Think about a Single Player game. When do you ever care how much ReAL LIFE TIME it takes to finish a single player game?
Don't you always view it in terms of how many hours it took to finish teh game? Or do you go, well KOTOR had much more game play because it took me 6 months to finish it, adn Borderlands only took a week. Although I only played KOTOR an hour a week, and Borderlands 4 hours a day. But the important thing is the REAL LIFE TIME IT took!
I cut out everything you said, because you aren't paying attention to what I'm saying, so I thought if I cut out what you said, you'd realize that it's important to pay attention to others.
You're dividing people into two camps, and there's a large amount of people who fall into neither.
For games I play, what I want is ones where skill and talent should be the most important factor.
I don't care if somebody plays 40 hours or 500 hours, or if somebody owns the game for 30 minutes or 800 years.
All that is pointless and irrelevant to me.
Practice can lead to improved skill, but it's not TIME that leads to improved skill, nor does time improve everybody equally, endlessly.
I'm just not a huge fan of virtual improvement being the #1 factor.
How long I own the game, or how much I play has nothing to do with it.
Our difference is not that I want to be equal to somebody who's owned the game as long as me, and you want to be equal to the person who's played as many hours as you...
Our difference is I think that if with 30 minutes of practice I can kick the everloving crap out of somebody who has played a game 800 hours, then I should be perfectly capable of doing so, without them using their vast amounts of spare time as a crutch to prop them up.
That's what I look for in a game. Not what you're talking about with caring how long somebody has owned the game RL.
I think the whole time factor is a crutch for people who can't develop any actual skills.
... and there are games for people like that! (Mostly RPGs) Good for them.
(PS. Technically, if somebody is spending extra money in a game, they're utilizing time to be better at the game. It's just RL time, which they have converted into money, then converted into the equivalence in game time. I'm a little surprised you've never heard that time is money. :P )
So if they don't play for a week, they expect to buy xp potions, or gear, to make up for that real life time they didn't play.
To be fair, there is a difference in single player RPGs, nad MMORPGs. IN an MMORPG, OTHER PLAYERS are leveling up in the game even when you are not playing.
That doesn't happen in an RPG. So, I think many people compare their character advancement to OTHER PLAYERS, rather than just hours played in teh game.
So if we have characters that are one month old in real life time, (we've been subscribed to the game for one month), our characters should be the same. Doesn't matter if you played 40 hours a week, and I played 1 hour a week. I should just buy xp potions or gear, so we'll be the same after 1 month of real life time. Because I'm comparing my character to yours in terms of real life time, not to hours played in the game.
I've only read the first few posts, but this doesn't seem to be a thread that is at all about how people measure their character's progress but rather the latest rationalization as to why item shop consumables give people an unfair advantage over you in PvE.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
ER....have you ever played EVE, where in fact, the above scenario you described is pretty much true?
Real time training of skill points means a character who's been paying for 2 years has more available skills (or power if you will) than a person wilth 6 months and less than a 6 year player. There are mechanics in place to balance the impact so a 6 month character can compete on specific levels but make no mistake, real time rules all.
Hmmm, I was under the impression that while real time is a FACTOR, that player skill was a huge part of it too, and that simply playing real life for 1 year instead of 6 months was far from a guaranteed win, or even close.
Well now, that would be true, despite paying (and playing) for over 3 years, my combat skills are "adequate" at best in terms of PvP effectiveness and I can easily have my clock cleaned by a younger pilot.
I was just saying from strictly a Skill training perspective, EVE has it hardcoded which folks either love or despise, no real middle ground I think.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well now, that would be true, despite paying (and playing) for over 3 years, my combat skills are "adequate" at best in terms of PvP effectiveness and I can easily have my clock cleaned by a younger pilot.
I was just saying from strictly a Skill training perspective, EVE has it hardcoded which folks either love or despise, no real middle ground I think.
Yeah, but the OP is complaining about casual players, so I'm PRETTY sure this isn't a complaint about people who play EVE. They're talking about a completely different progression by time-owning-game, that isn't related to EVE.
I measure my characters in terms of hours played in the game.
I view an online character just like a character in an offline RPG. I start playing a single player RPG. I save the game, and stop playing.
My character has entered suspended animation. His or her "life" happens in the game. Whether I start the game again tomorrow, next week, next month, or a year from now, I'll start right where I left off.
If the character was level 10 with x amount of gear, that's exactly how I will find the character when I start playing again. I don't expect to buy xp potions, or gear, because I didn't play the game for a week.
And that's how I play online games. I measure the character by hours played in the game. When I log off, I expect the character to enter suspended animation. I'll pick up where I left off, and I don't expect to speed up the game with xp potions, gear, or anything else becaues I didn't play for a week.
I think many casual players measure their character by REAL LIFE TIME. Instead of entering suspended animation when they log off, they expect their character to grow in power as long as they are paying a subscription, or buying items.
So if they don't play for a week, they expect to buy xp potions, or gear, to make up for that real life time they didn't play.
To be fair, there is a difference in single player RPGs, nad MMORPGs. IN an MMORPG, OTHER PLAYERS are leveling up in the game even when you are not playing.
That doesn't happen in an RPG. So, I think many people compare their character advancement to OTHER PLAYERS, rather than just hours played in teh game.
So if we have characters that are one month old in real life time, (we've been subscribed to the game for one month), our characters should be the same. Doesn't matter if you played 40 hours a week, and I played 1 hour a week. I should just buy xp potions or gear, so we'll be the same after 1 month of real life time. Because I'm comparing my character to yours in terms of real life time, not to hours played in the game.
I don't think either perspective is wrong, but they are going to create different expectations in a game.
How do you measure your character?
I play same as you thats why i never understand whole fuss about casuals who have feeling that they are behind those who can play more. My mmo character i play same as solo game. I play sandbox mainly and still dont want any offline advantage thats why i would never play a itemshop game eather and dont macro afk eather.
Comments
um hey, how do you start a thread?
Of course you hear that.
It's phrased like this.
Why should I play a P2P game?
The people that play more than me are "hardcore" and that's not fair. I don't have that kind of TIME!
I should be able to buy xp potions or gear, and progress as fast as I want to!
But if you measure your character in hours played, EVERYONE has the same amount of time.
What difference does it make if your character levels up in a week, a month, or a year?
When you've played the game 40 hours, you've played the game 40 hours.
Isn't that the way a Single Player game works?
You buy the game knowing it has a certain amount of content, and that you want to play through it.
Often the content is rated in hourse of game play.
You know that if you like the game, you'll play the whole thing, and it will require a certain number of hours.
It doesn't matter of you play it all in a week, or it takes a couple of months, or you put it down, don't play for 6 months, then decide to play again.
Either way, you'll play for the same amount of hours more or less, and that will determine your characters progression.
KOTOR, Fallout, etc. You're going to get roughly X hours of game play before you max out your character.
But some people don't play an MMORPG the same way.
They go, but that player over there has been playing for a month, and now he's 40th level!
I don't have that kind of TIME to play 40 hours a week and get to 40th level in one month!
I should be able to speed up the game play, so I get to 40th level with LESs than 160 hours of game play! I need to by xp potions or gear so I can catch up!
You're measuring your character by REAL TIME, a real life MONTH.
Not HOURS PLAYED, like in a Single PLayer game.
This.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Sorry I had to leave the discussion earlier, at work and duty called. I was in no way trying to be a smartass. I have a great deal of respect for most posters on this site. I do have an unfortunate tendency to be a smartass without realizing it, just pity my wife!
When I play a game, I like to play for certain moments, let me explain. In vanilla WoW, my "main" was an enhanced shaman, the glass cannon. I would play for the moment when windfury would proc on a big 2-handed weapon. I might die in a battleground 10 times to get there, or be low man dps in a dungeon but, if I could get to that moment where I could see those big game changing numbers on my screen, it made me happy. Simple pleasures I guess. That being said, I would farm gear/gold etc. to get me to those moments. That, to me, was character progression.
I only really measure my character in a numerical sense when I need to compare stats against other characters, in-game challenges or explain to other people how much and what kind of effort I've put into playing an MMO with said character. What numbers I use depends on the situation. It could be level, gear, skillpoints, time played etc. Doesn't really matter whether I'm playing something hardcore or casually. I expect to find my character roughly in the condition I left him/her in, depending on how much game updates have changed class, skills, gear etc. since the last time I had a chance to play with the character.
But all those numbers are of little actual importance to me. I don't wake up in the morning and say to myself "Dude, I have over 100 days played, all skills maxed, most factions maxed, full tier whatever raid gear and some ungodly number of PvP kills on my main character, thus my main character is awesome".
To be honest, the first thing that went through my head when I saw the title of the post was...
I measure my character by how attached I am to the character.
...and I think I'm going to stick with that first thought even though it's going to horrify all those munchkin min/maxers who thinks the length of your virtual thingy is all that matters
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Ah. I see. Your problem is that some people have more money than you, and that makes you angry.
Say no more. That IS a tragic problem, I have that problem all the time.
The only method of measuring worth should definitely be by how much spare time you have. Measuring by real life skill, or money, or anything that can be achieved by being a better person in real life is unfair.
though i've been playing some games for more than 6 hours a day for months on end i never felt like i 'had to measured my character in time' at all because it's not like i usually have some long term goal in game , i just want to have fun at the times i play.
sometimes i feel like doing nothing particularly usefull for my character and sometimes i'll enjoy leveling like hell. the only time when i'll start to wander about how my character is doing is when i'm forced to compare to others but the goal is most of the time not even competition but just to keep on track with others i want to socialize with, so the quality time.
so rather than thinking in terms of 'measuring my character by amounts time' i think in time spend in game (which is last time i checked still the same value as the amount of real time spend on a game) as being a measure for 'amount of fun i had' in the whole game and not particularly to measure how powerfull a character has become.
Depends on the MMO. You use RPG's as a measuring stick which is logical. However, this question is so dependent on WHAT game you are playing, it is almost too broad of a question. I read through your choices, and tbh..I don't know. I have been subscribed to EvE since 2006, have many skills trained to V...yet I don't feel omnipotent.
I played DF for about 14 months..had a few specializations to near 100...and I felt like I could kick the crap out of just about anyone in 1 vs 1. I never, ever feel like this in EvE. Just too many variables. I would agree that in RPG's you gain levels so therefore that is the built in measuring stick. If they didn't have levels, would you play it? Would you if they didn't have a quantitative way to measure your abilities/skills? I don't think that would work.
I personally loathe levels, or at least it showing up "hovering" over your toons head, like in City of Heroes. I felt that was idiotic. Darkfall has this right. I still don't really have a good answer other than I don't really measure my toon in killboard kills, max skills etc...I measure him/her by my confidence to use them in PvP.
I guess in a PvE centric game, i.e. LOTRO I would measure him/her as how they would work in a group.
If it is an industrialist/crafter type..then I measure them by their ability to build quality gear.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
ER....have you ever played EVE, where in fact, the above scenario you described is pretty much true?
Real time training of skill points means a character who's been paying for 2 years has more available skills (or power if you will) than a person wilth 6 months and less than a 6 year player. There are mechanics in place to balance the impact so a 6 month character can compete on specific levels but make no mistake, real time rules all.
You could argue that those who play do get an advantage of ISK, but even that can be bought by trading it for PLEX.
And I prefer this system, finally solves the problem I've always had with MMO's, that they normally reward people who have more free time to play them vs those of use with real life limitations.
Its also a major reason why a person like the OP hates a system like this, sort of the polar opposite in perspective and expectations.
I'm hoping WOD employes a similar mechanic.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I measure my character based on the quests he's done adn the adventures he has been on.
I have a funny story.
Back in WoW:The Burning Crusade, there was a pretty long and epic quest chain in Shadowmoon Valley, about a demon hunter trained by Illidan himself, who supposedly became mroe powerful than even his own master through a demonic book called the Book of Fel Names. I went through dank dungeon and hardy boss to get this book and then when it came time for the showdown, I could not get a party to slay him.
During the fight, when his HP reaches 50% he Metamorphs into his Demon Form and becomes immune to literally EVERYTHING, at which point you have to rip up the book in his presence to deprive him of his powers.
Well, an Alliance party came up to fight him, and noticed I was party less. Instead of slaying me outright, they actually helped me fight him. They tagged him, but apparently you could still get credit for the kill if you were nearby or something. So he gets to 50%, becomes Immune, then I start shreddin' the book.
Something went wrong, but I didn't notice just yet. The boss died, I got credit and the Alliance party went abut their merry way. When I look in my inventory, there is now two copies of the Book. Probably a glitch from fighting two factions or something. When I turned in the quest, the questgiver only took one of the Books.
I sill have the item and I carry it in my inventory everywhere :P
I like to think my character made a copy of the book and is now more powerful than Illidan XD
Hmmm, I was under the impression that while real time is a FACTOR, that player skill was a huge part of it too, and that simply playing real life for 1 year instead of 6 months was far from a guaranteed win, or even close.
Some jacked up poll option, plain n simply I measure a character's worth by skill and attitude.
you're almost there, but not quite.
You're thinking one way of playing the game superior to another.
Like F2P games with cash shops are superior, OR, P2P games with no cash shops are superior.
I'm saying they are EQUAL. Neither is superior to the other.
However, different players enjoy one or the other.
IMO, the reason is how you percieve your character.
If you perceive your character like a SINGLE PLAYER game, no one in the game in a P2P game, can level faster than you.
It's not possible.
your character at 40 hours played will be like most characters at 40 hours played.
Just like if you and I bought KOTOR and played that game.
WE'd both finish the game, in about the same amount of hours.
If you did it all in a week, and it took me a month, I wouldn't think you were "hardcore", I wouldn't think you were "outleveling" me.
I'd think when I've played the game the same amount of hours as you, I'll have finished the game too. I didn't play the game any faster or slower than you. I played the same amount of hours, to get to the same place.
Do you care your friend finished KOTOR in a month, and you finished in two months? I don't think anyone is going to say that.
HOWEVER, in MMORPGs SOME players don't look at their character like a Single Player game. They compare to OTHER PLAYERS, and what THEY do in a REAL LIFE MONTH.
So they want to be the same place you are, in a REAL LIFE MONTH, regardless of HOURS PLAYED. How can you do that? In a F2P game, you can buy xp potions and gear.
In a P2P game, there's not much you can do about that if you don't play the game.
You're think one is BETTER than the other.
I"m just saying different people perceive their characters differently, and that perception leads them to prefer one style of play over another.
There's nothing wrong with spending money to level faster. IF you view your character in terms of REAL LIFE TIME, like one REAL LIFE MONTH.
However, if you view your character in terms of HOURS PLAYED, a cash shop to speed up game play is not necessary.
EVERYONE IS EQUAL in terms of HOURS PLAYED INSIDE THE GAME.
Think about a Single Player game. When do you ever care how much ReAL LIFE TIME it takes to finish a single player game?
Don't you always view it in terms of how many hours it took to finish teh game? Or do you go, well KOTOR had much more game play because it took me 6 months to finish it, adn Borderlands only took a week. Although I only played KOTOR an hour a week, and Borderlands 4 hours a day. But the important thing is the REAL LIFE TIME IT took!
Here's a list of games rated in HOURS OF GAMEPLAY. Not, REAL LIFE MONTHS, regardless of how many hours.
I cut out everything you said, because you aren't paying attention to what I'm saying, so I thought if I cut out what you said, you'd realize that it's important to pay attention to others.
You're dividing people into two camps, and there's a large amount of people who fall into neither.
For games I play, what I want is ones where skill and talent should be the most important factor.
I don't care if somebody plays 40 hours or 500 hours, or if somebody owns the game for 30 minutes or 800 years.
All that is pointless and irrelevant to me.
Practice can lead to improved skill, but it's not TIME that leads to improved skill, nor does time improve everybody equally, endlessly.
I'm just not a huge fan of virtual improvement being the #1 factor.
How long I own the game, or how much I play has nothing to do with it.
Our difference is not that I want to be equal to somebody who's owned the game as long as me, and you want to be equal to the person who's played as many hours as you...
Our difference is I think that if with 30 minutes of practice I can kick the everloving crap out of somebody who has played a game 800 hours, then I should be perfectly capable of doing so, without them using their vast amounts of spare time as a crutch to prop them up.
That's what I look for in a game. Not what you're talking about with caring how long somebody has owned the game RL.
I think the whole time factor is a crutch for people who can't develop any actual skills.
... and there are games for people like that! (Mostly RPGs) Good for them.
(PS. Technically, if somebody is spending extra money in a game, they're utilizing time to be better at the game. It's just RL time, which they have converted into money, then converted into the equivalence in game time. I'm a little surprised you've never heard that time is money. :P )
I've only read the first few posts, but this doesn't seem to be a thread that is at all about how people measure their character's progress but rather the latest rationalization as to why item shop consumables give people an unfair advantage over you in PvE.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I measure my characters' bust sizes and rank them from there.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Well now, that would be true, despite paying (and playing) for over 3 years, my combat skills are "adequate" at best in terms of PvP effectiveness and I can easily have my clock cleaned by a younger pilot.
I was just saying from strictly a Skill training perspective, EVE has it hardcoded which folks either love or despise, no real middle ground I think.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I play same as you thats why i never understand whole fuss about casuals who have feeling that they are behind those who can play more. My mmo character i play same as solo game. I play sandbox mainly and still dont want any offline advantage thats why i would never play a itemshop game eather and dont macro afk eather.