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Why do developers and game companies lie?
-Zeno-
Member CommonPosts: 1,298
Over the past several years I see many failures happen. Most of the companies spin their failures as success by boasting their "account" number and "box sales" numbers but avoid talking about actual active player counts. Age of Conan was a good example of this as they boasted about selling over a million copies but only had 100k subscribers. Rift is following the same path with the amount of accounts they are boasting about. Makes you wonder what other companies are giving out false information about subscribers vs accounts.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Comments
I think WoW may be at the heart of this problem. Its fictional sales figures are so extravagant that the other companies think that they have to have numbers in the millions or else they're a failure. Games like Warhammer and Rift are actually doing fine, but WoW's fictional high standard makes them feel like they have to misrepresent the size of their playerbase.
This post and the title is technically false.
I haven't seen any false statements coming from game companies.
AOC said 'how many units were sold', Rift has said 'how many are accounts were created'.
Unless the numbers quoted were wrong, the statements themselves can not be a lie.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
If companies lie it is for two reasons:
1) To convince stock holders and investors that they are doing well.
2) To convince potential buyers that the game will continue to do well so they won't regret paying for the game.
In other words: Money.
Here's where paying sharp attention and experience with advertising pays off. In most of the cases companies and PR people don't actually lie, they just highlight the aspects that makes their product or company look good.
To give an example: your comment already says that you didn't listen what was actually being said back then. AoC was said to have shipped 1 million boxes, which isn't the same as 'box sales'. The actual sales were around 500-700k, with something like 400k subs at the 2-3 months mark. Same for Rift, Trion talks about 2 million accounts made which doesn't say much. However they also talk about accumulative sales 'nearing 1 million' which tells more (but is still vague).
In all those statements there hasn't been one lie, however the truth was presented in such a way that it made the respective companies look good.
Nothing special about it with game companies, it can be noticed in all kinds of commercials and PR speeches, and if people don't notice it, they better learn quickly else they'll keep being fooled because of only seeing the surface of things.
Also it's not as if it's solely a trait that only devs or game companies or PR divisions or corporations do: most of us don't go around talking about all our flaws or weaknesses or things that make us look bad in the eyes of others, nope, we like to show our good side to the people that matter to us. Is that lying too, trying to hide our bad side and character flaws under the carpet in our contact with others and show us at our best? Some people who learn of our flaws later on might perhaps think so, even if we didn't actually lie but merely skated past some truths and presented some other truths in a positive light. You know, like also devs and game companies do.
/offtangent
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
any questions?:D
Because thats what marketing does,
One thing that I can't figure out is why so many people think that cut seen footage has anything to do with game play.
As always, it's "buyer beware".
You know, when it's something major like financial investments, there's regulations and Bernie Madoff goes to jail. But the government can't baby sit everybody all the time, and at some point people have to be responsible themselves. And so do companies, there are consequences for being misleading and untrustworthy.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"
It's not just misrepresenting statistics as profits. It's also claims that they have what players want, using power words to skirt the details. And gamers have been figuring it out over the last few years. I mean, we aren't dumb. The fault is on them for fooling us once and shame on them. Of course there's a dwindling number who have been fooled twice, shame on them, but more and more of them are realizing their mistakes too. There comes a time when this game gets played out, and I think that time is pretty much here. New gamers are on their own, of course.
Once upon a time....
Pretty much this. This is not to say that companies have never lied in the past.
But every time I see a person complain about the "lying" it always seem that they have:
A, not paid any attention to what was actually being said;
B, listened to some "friend" who told them X and then I start seeing "I heard that X was happening" and pretty soon everyone believes X is happening and there is no actual evidence of it.
It's like this horrendous evil game of telephone where in the end it's not amusing to hear what last person heard.
It just manifests itself with some post on some forum saying that the company lied.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
To maximize profit.
There is a mindset out there that wants to be part of something popular. Much like the cool table at lunch in high school. If they know a particular mmorpg is really booming it may be the factor that pushes them over the edge to join up.
One can lie without ever saying anything false. There is little doubt that companies are deliberately selective in their presentation of numbers and it's nails-on-chalkboard annoying to listen to some of the spin that comes out. But unfortunately, that's just the way business works and unless someday MMOs are run as public trusts rather than private enterprises, it isn't likely to change.
The older I get the more I come to realize that most people want you to lie to them, they simply are very particular about how you do it.
My stock in tin foil just went up AGAIN!!
Yes, it's the developers fault the consumer over hypes and praises a game. Developers advertise and show there product. You have a choice on whether you want to play the game or not. So stop crying and stop wasting your money if the game is so bad and just don't play it. See, was that so hard?
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Problem is, the real, hidden, illuminati-style backend dealings of things.
See, consumers knowingly and selectively listen/read/interpret whatever they see into what they want, disregarding being told what is actually being made. Companies see this as license to lie.
Because a company will always make lofty promises and never deliver, and because no one is innovative and lies to their playerbase, people don't know/care what to believe, so they'll just selectively listen to whatever they want because the forum-drama can really be quite amusing sometimes.
And the dog chases its tail another day...
Lets Push Things Forward
I knew I would live to design games at age 7, issue 5 of Nintendo Power.
Support games with subs when you believe in their potential, even in spite of their flaws.
I know, the lies are terrible. Just yesterday I was drinking a Pepsi and a sudden realization came upon me that it's not "ALWAYS" Coca-Cola. I cried a little and considered an atrocious terrorist action against the local Coca-Cola Bottling plant. Eventually I got over it though. I didn't want to hurt all those cute polar bears they keep.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
As already metioned it's not that all dev's and /or game companies lie, if they have a good marketing team, they will spin their product to show only what they need to show you so you form the opinion they want you to form. It's just what many news outlets do when it comes to politic's. They want you to form a certain opinion of someone so they only show what they feel they need to show you to form that opinion. It's not lying, it's just leaving out the facts/info that doesn't fit what they want you to get in the message.
This is why I don't bother watching anything but local news anymore and why I don't listen to others comments or opinions about games that I see on the internet. I know, if it's posted on the internet it must be true..lol, but I just as soon make up my own mind about something.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Unless the word 'lie' changed during the last few years, the first sentenace is not possible.
How you interpret the data is not the companies job and yes, they will give you the numbers that makes them look 'good'.
However, they will not 'lie' but give you information. If you take that information and assume it is something else, well, that's not the companies fault.
Is it a lie to say 'the sky is not purple'?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Why they do everything... Money.
Safehouse Gaming up and running at: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnKd0Hk85CQ_N04Ae7v5zZg
Yeah, really. Being a "Sandboxer", and wanting to understand the WoW phenomena, I looked hard at how they come up with their figures when they posted how they calculate it, including in world markets where there's a lot of gaming cafes and such. I have to give Blizzard credit for doing it the best they can. I think their figures are accurate for current active users, as best as anyone could do.
I think there's a real issue with the difference with Asian and Western gamers, what they have as alternatives to gaming, their backgrounds in gaming, etc. Also, there's an issue for the Western markets of quality competition and availability in a Themepark dominated market. I mean, there's just nothing good available except Themepark games. People sight Eve, but that's a space sim and doesn't have an actual world to run around in. Also related to Eve, I believe that fantasy worlds are still the big desire for most gamers, despite what hardcore and tired/looking-for-something gamers might post in polls at websites like this one. That's not saying that sci-fi doesn't have a market, and I think a great Sandbox experience (without the incursions of Themepark elements ala SWG), with all sorts of personal equipment and homes-as-transportation vehicles and robot pets and all, would be another blockbuster hit.
Once upon a time....
Because they are paid to make money, not to tell the truth and sometimes making money and telling the truth are in conflict with each other.
My gaming blog
Active subscriptions can be a decieving number. I personally rotate subs between various games since I refuse to pay for more than one game in a particular month. I play RIFT and consider myself a committed player, but I don't currently have a sub because I wanted to try something else for a couple months.
Also, since WoW has been so upfront with their sub numbers, they now have no choice to but boldly proclaim their decline since we know their peak already.
Do you read what you write? You can lie without saying anything false? The entire definition of a lie is knowingly making a false statement. People stupidly forget that if a company were to lie about sales, or subscriber numbers, it wouldn't be just the ire of the community they would be drawing. The sales presented to stock holders and tax collectors would not match the numbers, so not only would the company be paying taxes on income they do not receive, but the stock holders would be crushing the CEO's spine in court as to why the company illegally inflated their numbers.
The biggest lies I've seen come from companies are simply due to miscommunication within the company, and as someone who has worked for an MMO, getting bad information even from a very high up source is not all too uncommon.
As for the spin ("The game is healthy," or "we have ___ registered accounts") well that's just faith service for the stockholders and potential customers.
Its not often a game company actualy blundly lies, they are retailers, go into a store and a store clerk will help you whit a big smile and try to sell you that thier products are the best, most wont blundly lie to you but most know the art of leaving out the less praise worth details of a product.
game company's do the same, they try to sell highlights of thier producs and fabric a nice tale in line whit thier current bussiness morale.
the problem is, no mather how honest a salesman might be, theres always a manager comming down from HQ trowing out the old rules and services focusing the product sales into a new direction, a old customer looks at these new services and cant help but thinking that the salesman lied to them.
Nobody likes changes in thier games, but if stockholders become grumpy and or numbers dont keep growing then things will change. part of the problem is that 90% of the game investors have no clue how gaming works, if they look at thier exel sheets and see that game company xxxxx remained stable whit thier profits then someting is wrong, stability in profit is the same as loosing money in the investor bussines.
if you want to make sure to some degree that your game will always have the focus on the game and not so much on money (not beyond healty stable profit) then all you can do is play a game made by a company that has no connection to any form of investors and hope that the company aint run by someone who only wants more more more $$.
Thier some big game IP's comming GW2 SW:ToR, Archeage to name a few, you can bet everying you have that those games will see mayor change as they go along, they are all heavely backed by investors who's only goal is a ever increasing % of $ each season. as soon one of those games stabilize you will see change in order to try and pickup the exel green numbers.
so is the way of every bussiness in the wold, there very few low or non-profit company's , you do whatever it takes to keep the money flowing. sex and $power it keeps the world turning...
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre