Originally posted by Tardcore "You say we're all the same You don't even know my name Sometime somewhere some man hurt you I'm one of them so I get stuck with the blame You think you know about me You don't know a damn thing about meI'm not all men, just one man, I'm not all men" Thank you Henry Rollins. While there may actually be a point somewhere in this long winded rant, it is burried in the white noise of all the condecending and blatant stereotyping. You are pushed out of shape because some internet dickweed in a video game treated you rudely due to your gender, that truly is a shame. I've constantly had to deal with condecenstion in online games because of my thick as a brick accent. Some people hear that in vent and seem to think that not perfectly speaking the Queens english equates to being mentally challenged. Its annoying but that doesn't give me the right to accuse every english speaking MMOer of acting this way. Coming here and posting this long, antagonistic, agony-on, decrying (seemingly) that all men in video games act this way is the wrong way to promote understanding or even sympathy. Two wrongs do not make a right. So while I agree the online crowd and society in gerenal could use improvement in gender relations, I'm not sure you are the person who should be leading us to enlightenment.
I try to rein in my own sexual biases and not assume that every male player I meet is a raving misogynist, just because a few of his gender-colleagues happen to be so. Its not always easy, but the easiest way isnt necessarily the best way, even in MMOs.
Did we read the same topic?
Heso o kamedomo oyobanu -- Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
I agree with the article (being the fiance/love slave of a woman who games myself), but man do I groan whenever I see those fake-arse "Gamer Girls" models who are supposed to represent the average woman gamer.
When people say a lot of girls play mmos, I wonder how much they mean by 'alot'. In the guilds that I have been in, maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 were girls, and in some cases none were. I definitely saw more girls in WOW and LOTRO though.
I play female avatars a lot, and I have to say that even when playing male avatars I tend to prefer playing with men. Why? Well it's the same as in real life. Just because I'm talking to you doesn't mean I want to sleep or date you. So relax, you don't have to be a bitch and all stand offish around me. I don't care to know or meet up with any girls from the internet. I already have the best wife in the world
I should add that I was specifically talking about women in mmos. If we are talking gaming in general, it seems like all my friends that are girls are playing games on facebook. It's crazy.
I'm 30 years old, and I've only met 1 woman in my life that ever admitted to playing games. So in some ways I can understand why a new male gamer might think that women aren't interested in gaming. In fact, I know many women who won't even date a guy that plays video games, because they think guys that do never do anything else but play.
Anyways, despite that, I've never had the issue this article describes. In fact, I never even think about the gender of the person pulling the strings of their avatar, because why does that even matter? It never used to before WoW, but since WoW, we have a lot of people who came to the genre thinking that MMO's is just another tool for picking up women.
My problem with female gamers is that deep down I'm a shy loner who never learned how to interact with women. The heroic fantasy is really one part slaying the dragon, one part winning the heart of the princess / blacksmith's daughter. So a part of me secretly dreams of meeting my true love online, while the the rest of me is terrified of transforming into some creepy loser stereotype trying to get the attention of anyone with two X chromosomes. So in the end I tend to just run away like a terrified 12-year-old whenever I discover I've been playing with a female gamer.
Girls tend to politic more then Guys in my experience, and i've found some guilds almost unbearable cause of the female lovers/wives of the leadership.
With that said, I ended up finding some great groups of mature straight up, honest and respectful coed guilds that I have stayed in contact with for years.
Girls playing games, old news.
I would love to read an article about Female Leadership in Online Games vs Male Leadership. Either Guild, PuG, or other.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - John Galt
If I were to generally describe the female gamers I've played with, it would be comepetent and detached. Nearly all the "drama llamas" I've encountered have been male. The women just seem to have been much more laid back and relaxed. I actually remember reading a report many years ago that evaluated female pilots of high performance jets against their male counterparts, and the results were pretty much what my experience has shown me in games.
So at the risk of being branded politically incorrect, I think eqality is a myth. Men and women are hard coded to respond differently to certain situations. It has nothing to do with airy-fairy socialist dogma, it's just genetics. But "different" can't simply be measured in terms of inferior versus superior. Sometimes completely different approaches to a situation can yield equally successful outcomes, albeit via mutually exclusive methods.
Anyways, in general, I prefer to play with girls. The job gets done and my blood pressure tends to stay at a safe level. Guys just seem more prone to fly off the handle over silly things and that's just a downer all around.
I kind of felt the same as the above poster. This is a topic that has been rehashed so many times over the last 20 years that it is painful to see again...and again....and again.
I don't see why you have to glamourise yourself as being a girl gamer. It is a subtle thing, you don't need to form big groups, and get a name and make a big deal out of it, just play the game. That is what frustrates me most about some girl gamers, is that it turns into a modeling thing, a publicity stunt. Something that they can say "see, girls can play games too, in your face."
For me, it's whatever, it's cool,i'm glad you play games, we can connect on that level and have fun, but there is no need to be brag the fact that you are a girl and you play video games. If you don't want to be treated differently, then quit setting yourselves apart from everyone else. These all girl clans that look hot, where matching outfits and do photo shoots? Give me a break.
Not that I don't enjoy a hot girl gamer in skimpy clothes, but you are setting yourselves apart by making a big deal out of the fact that you indeed do play video games. I think it is just a running joke that "girls don't play video games" and is meant as something funny rather than something serious. I think most men would love it if more women played video games.
So get over yourselves and play the game.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
If I were to generally describe the female gamers I've played with, it would be comepetent and detached. Nearly all the "drama llamas" I've encountered have been male. The women just seem to have been much more laid back and relaxed. I actually remember reading a report many years ago that evaluated female pilots of high performance jets against their male counterparts, and the results were pretty much what my experience has shown me in games.
So at the risk of being branded politically incorrect, I think eqality is a myth. Men and women are hard coded to respond differently to certain situations. It has nothing to do with airy-fairy socialist dogma, it's just genetics. But "different" can't simply be measured in terms of inferior versus superior. Sometimes completely different approaches to a situation can yield equally successful outcomes, albeit via mutually exclusive methods.
Anyways, in general, I prefer to play with girls. The job gets done and my blood pressure tends to stay at a safe level. Guys just seem more prone to fly off the handle over silly things and that's just a downer all around.
Being a good follower, being a good leader, and being adept at handing an air craft while multitasking are completely different things.
Female 5 star General anyone?
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - John Galt
...when's the last time you used a joystick for anything? How old is that pic?
Well, looks like she's in a car racing game, but I think that's one of my first guild leaders in Lineage 1 (back in 2002). She used to yell at us like that during sieges but boy, could she put together a good fighting force.
Course, it was all via chat channels, for all I know she was a former drill sargent (male or female)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I expect it depends on the guild. I'm a middle aged woman and have run my WoW guild for almost six years. I do not tolerate drama. None. I get enough at work to last me long after I get home. Our guild is about 60% male and 40% female. I've NEVER had to kick another woman for drama. Just saying.
What I can say is that I don't login looking for a date or to get to know anyone better at all. I login to play, I don't care if anyone I meet is male, female, trans, cat, dog, alien, bird, they could be anything at all. For me the only thing that matters is, is the person polite? Are they nice? Are they fun to be around? If so great, why analyze it past that level because chances are you are never going to be meeting in reality anyways.
Most MMOs I have been around everyone I meet is fine. Up till recently I haven't seen much of any of the old sorts of drama and then I logged in on World of Tanks, lol. It is fun for PvP though and it is really easy to just ignore most everyone so it works.
Now back to hoping SWToR or TSW or something NEW is out sooooooooooooooon, argh.
I've been in two actually decent guilds in my time in WoW. The GMs of both were women and, while one was a crazy bitch who ended up tearing apart the guild, they were both very competent and knowledgable. That's all there is to say. Gender just isn't (or shouldn't be) an issue.
I welcome all girl gamers. I hope they become stronger in gaming. As a former professional gamer, my team would sometimes play against an all girls team and they were actually pretty good. People would always joke about 'losing' to the girls teams, but they are getting better. I know that girls often try very hard to be the best. All of the girls I have played with in high skill based games seemed to like some form of coordination. But the good ones were still better than 75% of the overall community. It's hard to explain but I want to see some truly pro girl gamers.
"So the next time you’re tempted to say “Well, she’s only a girl, what do you expect?” take a moment to check yourself for prejudice hives."
OP, I suggest you take your own advice about prejudice conceptions when choosing a title for your article.
Personally, I have nothing against female gamers. I have several female friends who game. I have always been told that the reason so many think that females don't game as much as males(which is wrong) is because females tend to keep a low profile in their characters due to the large amount of immature reactions they get from those same male gamers.
Most female gamers will not admit being female online unless they are either the "gold-digging" type or they believe you are mature enough to not hit on them.
Personally, I have nothing against female gamers. I have several female friends who game. I have always been told that the reason so many think that females don't game as much as males(which is wrong) is because females tend to keep a low profile in their characters due to the large amount of immature reactions they get from those same male gamers.
Most female gamers will not admit being female online unless they are either the "gold-digging" type or they believe you are mature enough to not hit on them.
Perfectly said and so verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry true
After reading the article, it would seem that females would make better raid leaders. It also seems to indicate that females would have more difficulty figuring out a new encounter or mechanic. Which fits right in line with some of my experiences with females becoming very emotional during new content raids.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - John Galt
Not counting facebook gamers, the only girl-gamer I know, IRL, just happens to be my SO, so I don't have a lot to go on here - but, there is a major difference in how she plays than guys I've known, including myself.
When she gets into a game, she does really get into it, for a while, but she's much more casual in the sense that when she loses interest in a game, she doesn't seek out a new game the way I do. She'll go weeks or months happily watching TV instead of playing anything at all. Eventually, a game comes along that gets her attention and she dives back in. I guess, what I mean to say is that if you slice it one way, we're both gamers, both potential game consumers, and you could even say she gets just as into her games as I do.
If you slice it another way, she accounts for a much smaller portion of the market, though. While she might play 3-4 games a year, I burn through 3-4 games a month. I'm much more likely to play a mediocre game than she is. It's a lot easier for a developer to get me to shell out money. If they want her money, they need to focus on figuring out what she wants out of a game and getting it in there. If they want my money, OTOH, they just need to make a half decent game of almost any kind, making for a lot more overlap with other corners of the market.
So, it would be misleading to say we're both just gamers, and thus, occupy the same percentage of the market, even though statistically, that may appear to be true. Course, this is entirely empirical, but I suspect more widely true as well.
As for skill, well yeah, I've played wayyy more games in my life, so I tend to have quite an advantage. Just don't tell her I said that
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Comments
I try to rein in my own sexual biases and not assume that every male player I meet is a raving misogynist, just because a few of his gender-colleagues happen to be so. Its not always easy, but the easiest way isnt necessarily the best way, even in MMOs.
Did we read the same topic?
Heso o kamedomo oyobanu -- Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
I think it's great that girls like to game... They need something to do in between making my dinner, and babies.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
This is still a subject matter? I thought it was settled when Roberta Williams came into picture.
I agree with the article (being the fiance/love slave of a woman who games myself), but man do I groan whenever I see those fake-arse "Gamer Girls" models who are supposed to represent the average woman gamer.
I tend to play alone or with a close relative (brother) or someone who I can really trust ;
Both boys/men and girls/women are equally bad company in my online experience
Still waiting on a single woman to post that this is no longer an issue.
Just sayin'.
So many women, so many different opinions
When people say a lot of girls play mmos, I wonder how much they mean by 'alot'. In the guilds that I have been in, maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 were girls, and in some cases none were. I definitely saw more girls in WOW and LOTRO though.
I play female avatars a lot, and I have to say that even when playing male avatars I tend to prefer playing with men. Why? Well it's the same as in real life. Just because I'm talking to you doesn't mean I want to sleep or date you. So relax, you don't have to be a bitch and all stand offish around me. I don't care to know or meet up with any girls from the internet. I already have the best wife in the world
I should add that I was specifically talking about women in mmos. If we are talking gaming in general, it seems like all my friends that are girls are playing games on facebook. It's crazy.
I'm 30 years old, and I've only met 1 woman in my life that ever admitted to playing games. So in some ways I can understand why a new male gamer might think that women aren't interested in gaming. In fact, I know many women who won't even date a guy that plays video games, because they think guys that do never do anything else but play.
Anyways, despite that, I've never had the issue this article describes. In fact, I never even think about the gender of the person pulling the strings of their avatar, because why does that even matter? It never used to before WoW, but since WoW, we have a lot of people who came to the genre thinking that MMO's is just another tool for picking up women.
My problem with female gamers is that deep down I'm a shy loner who never learned how to interact with women. The heroic fantasy is really one part slaying the dragon, one part winning the heart of the princess / blacksmith's daughter. So a part of me secretly dreams of meeting my true love online, while the the rest of me is terrified of transforming into some creepy loser stereotype trying to get the attention of anyone with two X chromosomes. So in the end I tend to just run away like a terrified 12-year-old whenever I discover I've been playing with a female gamer.
Girls tend to politic more then Guys in my experience, and i've found some guilds almost unbearable cause of the female lovers/wives of the leadership.
With that said, I ended up finding some great groups of mature straight up, honest and respectful coed guilds that I have stayed in contact with for years.
Girls playing games, old news.
I would love to read an article about Female Leadership in Online Games vs Male Leadership. Either Guild, PuG, or other.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
If I were to generally describe the female gamers I've played with, it would be comepetent and detached. Nearly all the "drama llamas" I've encountered have been male. The women just seem to have been much more laid back and relaxed. I actually remember reading a report many years ago that evaluated female pilots of high performance jets against their male counterparts, and the results were pretty much what my experience has shown me in games.
So at the risk of being branded politically incorrect, I think eqality is a myth. Men and women are hard coded to respond differently to certain situations. It has nothing to do with airy-fairy socialist dogma, it's just genetics. But "different" can't simply be measured in terms of inferior versus superior. Sometimes completely different approaches to a situation can yield equally successful outcomes, albeit via mutually exclusive methods.
Anyways, in general, I prefer to play with girls. The job gets done and my blood pressure tends to stay at a safe level. Guys just seem more prone to fly off the handle over silly things and that's just a downer all around.
I kind of felt the same as the above poster. This is a topic that has been rehashed so many times over the last 20 years that it is painful to see again...and again....and again.
I don't see why you have to glamourise yourself as being a girl gamer. It is a subtle thing, you don't need to form big groups, and get a name and make a big deal out of it, just play the game. That is what frustrates me most about some girl gamers, is that it turns into a modeling thing, a publicity stunt. Something that they can say "see, girls can play games too, in your face."
For me, it's whatever, it's cool,i'm glad you play games, we can connect on that level and have fun, but there is no need to be brag the fact that you are a girl and you play video games. If you don't want to be treated differently, then quit setting yourselves apart from everyone else. These all girl clans that look hot, where matching outfits and do photo shoots? Give me a break.
Not that I don't enjoy a hot girl gamer in skimpy clothes, but you are setting yourselves apart by making a big deal out of the fact that you indeed do play video games. I think it is just a running joke that "girls don't play video games" and is meant as something funny rather than something serious. I think most men would love it if more women played video games.
So get over yourselves and play the game.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
Being a good follower, being a good leader, and being adept at handing an air craft while multitasking are completely different things.
Female 5 star General anyone?
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
Well, looks like she's in a car racing game, but I think that's one of my first guild leaders in Lineage 1 (back in 2002). She used to yell at us like that during sieges but boy, could she put together a good fighting force.
Course, it was all via chat channels, for all I know she was a former drill sargent (male or female)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I expect it depends on the guild. I'm a middle aged woman and have run my WoW guild for almost six years. I do not tolerate drama. None. I get enough at work to last me long after I get home. Our guild is about 60% male and 40% female. I've NEVER had to kick another woman for drama. Just saying.
Not a bad article, agree with it more or less.
What I can say is that I don't login looking for a date or to get to know anyone better at all. I login to play, I don't care if anyone I meet is male, female, trans, cat, dog, alien, bird, they could be anything at all. For me the only thing that matters is, is the person polite? Are they nice? Are they fun to be around? If so great, why analyze it past that level because chances are you are never going to be meeting in reality anyways.
Most MMOs I have been around everyone I meet is fine. Up till recently I haven't seen much of any of the old sorts of drama and then I logged in on World of Tanks, lol. It is fun for PvP though and it is really easy to just ignore most everyone so it works.
Now back to hoping SWToR or TSW or something NEW is out sooooooooooooooon, argh.
I've been in two actually decent guilds in my time in WoW. The GMs of both were women and, while one was a crazy bitch who ended up tearing apart the guild, they were both very competent and knowledgable. That's all there is to say. Gender just isn't (or shouldn't be) an issue.
I welcome all girl gamers. I hope they become stronger in gaming. As a former professional gamer, my team would sometimes play against an all girls team and they were actually pretty good. People would always joke about 'losing' to the girls teams, but they are getting better. I know that girls often try very hard to be the best. All of the girls I have played with in high skill based games seemed to like some form of coordination. But the good ones were still better than 75% of the overall community. It's hard to explain but I want to see some truly pro girl gamers.
"So the next time you’re tempted to say “Well, she’s only a girl, what do you expect?” take a moment to check yourself for prejudice hives."
OP, I suggest you take your own advice about prejudice conceptions when choosing a title for your article.
Personally, I have nothing against female gamers. I have several female friends who game. I have always been told that the reason so many think that females don't game as much as males(which is wrong) is because females tend to keep a low profile in their characters due to the large amount of immature reactions they get from those same male gamers.
Most female gamers will not admit being female online unless they are either the "gold-digging" type or they believe you are mature enough to not hit on them.
Perfectly said and so verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry true
"Men and women are different because their brains function in different ways and as a result they have different strengths and weaknesses."
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200803/male-brain-vs-female-brain-i-why-do-men-try-figure-out-th-0
After reading the article, it would seem that females would make better raid leaders. It also seems to indicate that females would have more difficulty figuring out a new encounter or mechanic. Which fits right in line with some of my experiences with females becoming very emotional during new content raids.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
Not counting facebook gamers, the only girl-gamer I know, IRL, just happens to be my SO, so I don't have a lot to go on here - but, there is a major difference in how she plays than guys I've known, including myself.
When she gets into a game, she does really get into it, for a while, but she's much more casual in the sense that when she loses interest in a game, she doesn't seek out a new game the way I do. She'll go weeks or months happily watching TV instead of playing anything at all. Eventually, a game comes along that gets her attention and she dives back in. I guess, what I mean to say is that if you slice it one way, we're both gamers, both potential game consumers, and you could even say she gets just as into her games as I do.
If you slice it another way, she accounts for a much smaller portion of the market, though. While she might play 3-4 games a year, I burn through 3-4 games a month. I'm much more likely to play a mediocre game than she is. It's a lot easier for a developer to get me to shell out money. If they want her money, they need to focus on figuring out what she wants out of a game and getting it in there. If they want my money, OTOH, they just need to make a half decent game of almost any kind, making for a lot more overlap with other corners of the market.
So, it would be misleading to say we're both just gamers, and thus, occupy the same percentage of the market, even though statistically, that may appear to be true. Course, this is entirely empirical, but I suspect more widely true as well.
As for skill, well yeah, I've played wayyy more games in my life, so I tend to have quite an advantage. Just don't tell her I said that
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.