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Why can't I play with my friends
jezvin
Member UncommonPosts: 804
Recently, like most of the people here, I've been looking for an MMO to play with the most recent game I played being Rift.
And what gets to me more than anything is how inaccessible almost every MMO is to play with someone else unless you work tireless to be the same level and only play at the same time.
In rift we leveled at slightly different paces he had more free time at first. He got about 10 levels higher than myself. We could PvP together that was OK but when it came to questing he would be done with an area and I’m not. Basically we never were able to both work on our characters together it was always someone sacrificing some form of progression to play together. we did it but it wasn't really something we wanted and if we were far too much of a level difference we basically soloed while talking on vent.
Just looking around almost every MMO suffers from this issue. There are a few that have some things that work, such as ffxi with level sync, once that was implemented my friends are I almost always were able to play together no matter what. but ffxi is an old game where that doesn’t really work for quests.
There seems to be nothing out there where if two people logged on they could do stuff together most of the time. Sandbox games it's easy to do but why not theme park games. why is endgame the only time people can do stuff together, why can't I level with friends must we all do it solo.
I've been playing vanguard which has some useful things to help people level together but I still can't just tell my friends to come join without saying o yeah you guys need to catch up a first and then we can level together.
I had this issue with WAR RIFT WOW tons of F2P games, almost every theme park mmo in existence. I just want to enjoy an MMO with my friends why is that so hard.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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Comments
There are games that have built in mechanism for members of different levels to do things together, such as temporarily buffing your level or scaling down your friends' level.
This is one of the issuess some of the new MMORPGs are looking to improve. Rightfully so, I'd say.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I agree..
I level at a slow pace at first, but then it really picks up later on.
Some of my friends have a consistent level pattern.
Some others have just level up so fast they're level 40 in a week.
It's really conficting, but since MMORPG's today don't even care to fix it,
the only real solutions are:
Play with friends who have similar level consistencies.
OR Play different MMO's not under the RPG genre such as League of Legends.
Welcome to the modern world of linear themepark mmo's...
Questing & socialising together with friends is crucial to online gaming ESPECIALY
in rpg's & mmo's, this is one of MANY reasons to which i feel the mmo genre has taken
more steps back than forward imo
The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Played:
SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR
Sounds more like a friend issue than a MMORPG issue.
The friends I play with wait. They don't level ahead. If the game is THAT good, that they can't help but to log on. They play alts or work on crafting until we are all together. That's what good friends do
This is always going to be an issue in level based games. Mentor systems seems to work but are far from perfect. Your "friends" still possibly have to go through content they are already done with.
What you are describing is level segregation. To some (many?) it is integral to their design. They don't want level 50s and level 30s playing together. They go out of their way to make it difficult. In some, even 5 levels apart is impossible.
Very true.
In my old days in WoW, we form a guild and each of us create an alt that is specifically for events. An alt to play only when we 5 log on, scheduled timing. During other times, we play other alts.
Simple solution. You just need o find your friends.
There are good reasons for that. Game companies don't want you to faceroll content so your friend can level faster. The faster you complete the content the faster you will be on the forums telling everybody how bored you are and need more content
Guild Wars 2.
The game doesn't have quests, it has events that run all the time whether players are there or not. It's not like quests where you have to be on the same stage, you can just decide to help out or leave any time. People get rewarded for helping after every stage, so it doesn't matter if someone did half a dozen things before you even got there. The game scales up in dificulty with more people who show up, so it's always challenging no matter how many people are there.
The game automatically mentors you down in power if you go do an event lower level than you (you'll be slightly stronger than the content but won't be able to grief it by 1-shotting it). You can outlevel your friends yet still meaningfully group with them in any event or dungeon. Or in the open world you can sidekick them up to your level.
The events run on cycles and can be repeated (or you might see new ones in an old area) so you never run out of older content.
The game is purely cooperative. You can group to make things easier to coordinate, but you don't even have to. Everybody gets xp and loot for helping kill a mob or participating in an event. The game is designed around making you want to see other people and there's plenty of other aspects which support that as well. Should be not only plenty of opportunities to play with friends, but also make a lot of new ones as well.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Conan is one of the few games I've played recently that has a "mentor" system, which raises the lower player up to be one level below the highest level player. It works well enough.
You can. It's called GuildWars 2. Wait for it.
Yeah I know guild wars 2 will help with this I can't wait.
But to the people that said my friends are the problem, wow guys really? the games are perfect and im the issue I think you got the wrong Idea here. Why is it a good thing that I can't play with my friends. What makes a game better by segregating the population.
Dose it makes no sense if I could play with my friends in an mmo I would probably play that game? I don't like singleplayer I can't stand them. I'm the hardcore player of all of my friends I usually out level people besides that particular case in rift. so I am usually the one that groups with the lower level people to make sure it's enjoyable for everyone but why do I have to suffer progression inhibitors because I want to play with friends.
It's more so been an issue with quest based games but it was an issue in grinding games before things like level sync and mentor.
It's a problem in MMOs it has been since leveling existed, why doesn’t anyone care? why do you blame me and my friends for not being able to play together instead of the game?
endgame content helps, but that’s another issue when you want to invite people to play your MMO it's like o I’m with this awesome raiding guild w/e and you need to do all this shit before you can play with me k thanks.
Do i have to apologize for having casual playing friends? should I dump my friends? screw that I will dump the game before that shit.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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EQ2 and I'm sure there are others that have a mentoring system so that no matter what level you or your friends are, you can still have fun together. As long as you keep playing games with the restrictive class/level system you will either be forced to have an alt for every friend or wait til everyone is max level to play together and both options suck.
Yeah that worked for a little bit while I played the problem was I was on vox which brought the PvP issue into it and it ended up not working out so well.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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City of Heroes easily took care of this issue. You can mentor other players to one level below you or even the reverse where you are brought to their level. They updated it so that everyone thats a low level is brought up to the team leader's level.
I have no idea why more games aren't doing this.
Just like what other people have posted. When GW2 releases, this problem that you see, will be easily adjusted and you and your friends will level around the same and even if your friends get in a few levels more then you, the level can be adjusted back down to yours. I do see what your saying, I have had this in the past with a few MMO's, and having to do a lot of catch up, luckly for me, I had guild mates and friends that worked with me to get me to where they were. Hopefully in the new MMO's to come and in GW2 if that game interests you, you will find a balance.
Wildstar (2013) & Elder Scroll Online (2013)
Playing: Diablo 3, WOW, Far Cry 3 & X-Com.
Enjoyed: WOW 5 1/2 yrs, LOTRO 3yrs, GW 1/2yr, DFO 1yr, EVE Online 3yrs, and Huxley (Beta).
Failed to impress: GW2 3months, Tera Online 6 months (best combat system in any MMO I've played) STO 1/4yr, Aion 1/2yr, AoC 1yr, CO, Fallen Earth, DDO, EQ2 1/2yr, WAR 1/2yr, Lineage 2 and FF XI 1/2yr, FF XIV.
:O
This is soo damnin' true ...
FEEL THE FULL
FREE-TO-FLAME
FANTASY.
They are. Guild Wars 2's "sidekicking" system is a direct result of influence from the #1 super powered MMO. :P
And it seems like a few other MMO's have a similar system as well.
Real jealous you keep getting spotlight featured posts, lol
The point is being made that GW2 using open ended player inclusive, level independent dynamic content will make socializing (in terms of the possibility of continued cooperative play and interaction, I presume) easier and that this is an important part of making GW2 a new direction in MMOs. Perhaps I overstate. Whatever, I have heard this in utube presentations from GW2 devs, and others online.
Here's my discussion point. If this aspect will actually help form new friendships and thus support the community end of MMOs...which is to my way of thinking is the main thing that gives a game a real MMO feeling...then it must do so by enticing players to interact in such a way that continued interaction is attractive. If the "interaction" is superficial, then "community building" will not be enhanced. The burden of building community will all be on the players, much as forming a community in any NON-mmo is. For example, I was a member of a group who played online shooters such as Counterstrike. The game experience didn't build the community, players interaction online outside the game did that. We had to do the heavy lifting outside, then experience the advantages of doing so in game.
It seems to me that essentially all the dynamic content I have seen, while it may or may not be fun, did not require or particularly encourage anyone to keep doing stuff together. For example, PQs in Warhammer. Or Wintergrasp in WoW. Yes, for a while a lot of fun, but it sure didn't build any community --- you didn't even have to chat with anyone to get involved. Compare the early stages of EQ1. If you grouped you pretty much had to talk things over, plan, etc. Hanging together was way better than hanging separately, LOL. Now I am not saying EQ1 was the ultimate MMO ---- that is NOT my point. My concern is that just providing easy to enter dynamic public content, while probably great fun at first, does not seem like much of a friendship builder, UNLESS the content somehow encourages interactions that actually foster friendships, instead of interaction in which players can be essentially anonymous and still do the content.
We are all working separately but we are all together in the same game world working on the same problem. So what.
People have talked about solo-friendly games as actually being anti-community. We bind together because we benefit from doing so. If being anonymous is easier, then that path of least resistance will be followed --- not exclusively --- some will still put in the effort to form communities, but it won't be easy. Maybe it never is, but my experience in EQ was that in that game making friends came naturally. I have found good guilds in EQ2, WoW, and Lotro, and they are all pretty solo friendly. So my point here is not about solo content, but about pseudo-cooperative content.
My question is whether such public dynamic content should really be hyped as being community building --- or whether it should really be judged --- if it is totally easy to jump in and out, and get benefits without really doing anything meaningful with other players --- as detracting from community building.
Perhaps someone could counter as to how the GW2 dynamic content is NOT anonymous friendly. Like to hear that.
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Rose-lipped maidens,
Light-foot lads...
I will defiantly agree that the DE in GW2 could turn out this way. But what I am hoping for is that the events will get hard. Playing GW1 I notice that Arenanet will make challenging content so if DE in GW2 become somewhat challenging then that is what I think will make people start to talk.
If grouping in EQ was easy, would there have been any need for people to talk to each other? not really. If the event content can be done without thinking then people will not really see a need to coordinate and solve the problem.
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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@ bamdorf
Dynamic events differ from earlier attempts in MMOs such as PQs or Wintergrasp. In my opinion, based in part on what the developers have said in the GDC Designing Dynamic Events video, among other places, it's these differences that help build community.
One of the biggest things that DEs do is chain together which keeps people in proximity longer. With quests, PQs, rifts, battlegrounds, and dungeon finder, there's no incentive to talk because you're just going to scatter afterwards. With DEs, the incentive is there to stick around for the next step of the chain because it's the easiest available content. Even after the chain is over, developers claim people just follow one another to find another chain.
There's other factors for giving people no incentive to leave. Everyone gets XP and loot for contributing, there's no competition. Griefing in general is pretty much impossible. The events scale up so they're always challenging, in fact you want them to scale up because it's more chaotic and fun. Rewards are generic so you don't feel you need to go off to do a particular one. There's cross profession combos letting you play off the other people who are there. Other people can support you by reviving you.
Another key factor I think that will encourage communication is downtime. I think this is something that has been seriously lacking in other MMOs. In dungeons, the ideal group activity, people are constantly chasing after the tank and they speed through the dungeon. If there's time between events to talk, then people will have an opportunity to take advantage of it. I think it also might help that the game isn't endgame focused. It's not a rush to get there and everything that happens before is just a waste of time, especially on an alt. At 90 minutes per level with a flat leveling curve, perhaps people can take it a little easier.
Finally, I think it will be easier to tell if people are great at their class. We know the explorable mode of the dungeons is pretty hard, so people will probably be on the lookout for people they'd want to group with for them. If you can see players who are setting up cross profession combos or taking advantage of other people's, skillfully dodging attacks, rezzing you, saying thank you for rezzing them, or saving you with a well timed ability, those are people you might want to get to know.
In that video I linked above, they talk about people who really only intended to solo getting drawn in because the game really doesn't give you any reason not to.
Who knows, maybe the open world only sets up minor friendships that become stronger when forged in an explorable mode dungeon wipefest. It's still a lot better than people going around the world solo and eyeing each other with suspicion.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I agree 100% with this, if it is in fact it is incorporated. That would imply that there is enough incentive to stay with the chain to bridge the downtime.
There are other sorts of downtime besides that directly associated with adventuring, of course. One would be "doing town stuff", selling, stocking up, etc. Another is characters getting together to "tell the story", instead of adventuring. But I suppose that doesn't happen until you already have the community.
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Rose-lipped maidens,
Light-foot lads...
I wanted to comment separately on this, and perhaps on the difficulty of the content itself. Grouping types of gamers is hazardous but I have no fear, LOL. There will always be serious gamers, casual but sensible gamers, and idiots. I think I fall in the middle category, but others will have their own judgement! For example, in GW1 I have been able to finish prophecies with henchmen/heroes, but I find some of the quests/missions difficult. I wonder seriously if a group of "serious gamers" would think my abilities useful for their purposes. It reminds me of the dreaded "gear check" in WoW. In GW1, I suppose people check whether you have unlocked certain skills, since weapons/gear is not much of an issue.
But I suppose dealing with the spectrum of skill levels/knowledge, the spectrum of XP level, or indeed, the spectrum of windows of time people are available to play, are immutable entropic factors that will always be a problem in community building in online games.
I appreciate your comments, thanks!
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Rose-lipped maidens,
Light-foot lads...
Serious people ALWAYS find a way to check. Ways I've seen people check in GW1 is looking for specific titles, checking to see if you own certain materials you can only get in certain high end zones, or yes, asking you to ping your build so they can determine if your build is awesome enough for their purposes.
The last one is particularly annoying, because it was usually based more off of flavor of the month, rather than them having a categorical knowledge of all possible skill interactions and effectiveness.