linear Themeparks its more easy and safe to devs invest. If we check the most of mmorpgs release this last years it seams player have less and less freedom of choice.
They just design a path to us, and we follow. even if a game come with some freedom, pach over pach it will disapear.
They treat us like kids who need guidance...
About the pool i didnt vote because i dont agree with none.
I can live with low graphics quality if the game have good features, but cant play a game with bad animations. And most of the games i see around close to sandbox have horrible animations IMO.
We need devs with balls to make a AAA quality sandbox or sandpark special in PvE wise, because PvP part its more easy in this case.
I wouldn't call the people of this site the voice of the mmo community. People on forums are only around to bitch and complain. Take a look around. Most people here hate errrthing. The majority of MMO players don't come to forums. I only do cause I'm at work and get paid a lot of money to sit around.
Sandbox vs Themepark? Really? People are still confused about this?
Themepark: You play a scripted role in a movie (ie the themepark) where you are some kind of hero
Sandbox: You play joe the nobody who is just trying to live his life and exist in a world that is not just a static background meant to look pretty
Some people want to be a scripted hero, some just want to do their own thing in a virtual world, a second life, if you will (and no, SL is not a game, it's a framework)
OP: I dont think you understand what sandboxers want. Its not that they dont like innovation.
Let me give you an example of a sandbox that many people on here hate, Mortal Online. In order to max or regain your characters health or mana reserves, you need to eat food and sleep. That is an innovative system. You take wheat that you picked place it on a grinder to make flour. Go to an oven add meat (from something you killed) along with a vegetable you may have picked and viola you have 'pot pie'. A recipe window doesnt 'tell' you what you will make. Or you wont get a quest to go sleep. You will see your health and notice your reserves are gone and you will sleep, cook, eat.
So that what a sandboxer may call an innovative system.
Just because we dont want a window that pops up and autogroups us together and ports us to the spidercave doesnt mean we dont want innovation. We want to have the weather effect us. Making us want to craft clothes we got from killing deer and skinning them. And wear those clothes so weather wont affect us so much. We want to construct big houses that our guildies can be safe in. We want to have to gather wood, stone, nails, granite; to do so.
XDayx is correct. However, I would like to add that the reason why most people don't like MO has nothing to do with the premise (potential some would say) of the game but more with the delivery. But apart from that quick clarification, spot on sir!
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Han was a smuggler, Leia was a diplomat, Luke was a farmer's kid. Say what? Do you mean: "To be one of the main characters within the very short timeframe of the movie after which they went back to more regular business that would bore all of you out of your fucking minds?"
1. Which Star Wars characters do you think people actually want to be like?
2. What do those people actually do (ie farming vs. fighting) throughout the film?
People want a game about that. And "that" happens to be lightsaber fighting, blaster shooting, and spaceship flying.
This should be obvious.
How much of the movie was composed of actual combat?
My problem (and I assume a good amount of other MMO 'vets' share this sentiment) is that I find nothing enticing about themepark games, therefore it really doesn't matter how "good" they are.
we have 2 themeparks coming up that have promise to be good
AND are not wow clones in any sense
TSW & GW2
if both of those fail though I think its safe to say AAA themeparks are pretty much dead, and more Sandpark like games like ArcheAge are the last hope for AAA games in the MMO genre, as big publishers will probably make more money making RPGs like Mass Effect & Skyrim then churning out micro expansions.
Right, thats why SWG, a Star Wars simulator, had such a terrible fanbase that QUIT after SOE put THEMEPARK elements into their Sandbox.
Thats why Pre CU/NGE SWG has little to no fanbase....I mean, even though theres a forum dedicated to them on here, it doesnt really mean anything.
Right, thats why Minecraft (a sandbox) has what, 10 million players? Lol.
This whole thinking along the lines "no one likes sandbox!" has got to go. Its juvenile and archaic. It might have been the popular line of thinking in 07-08, but its 2012 now. Get with the times - we have seen themepark after themepark tank.
And lets face it - TOR isnt really an MMO. Its a Diablo II-esque single player RPG with co-op thrown in. Its all instanced. All they need to do is throw in a lobby. Sure, TOR is a good game, but its not really an MMO.
Every niche has people to be catered to. Its not different for the sandbox crowd. Runescape did phenomenally well, and it was a sandbox started by some kid in his basement that became one of the most successful MMOs and video games of all time.
Singleplayer sandboxes are completely viable. It's MMO ones that that fail.
Game sandboxes are also completely viable. It's simulation-centric ones that fail.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I don't think AAA devs these days can't make a good MMORPG in my eyes, period. If they have so much trouble trying to chase WoW's tail, what makes you think they can do a decent Sandbox? If they fail at following someone else's lead (Blizzard / WoW), what makes you think they can take the lead in a dance for a Sandbox?
For about 7 years, developers have consistently been trying to follow WoW's example yet they fail. For 7 years, they've had no inspiration of their own and tried to mimic Blizzard / WoW. For 7 years, we've seen the roadsides of the treacherous road of MMORPGs littered with the bodies of dead MMORPGs and fallen, yet still twitching titles.
And if they try a Sandbox game, where they have no blatantly large titles to copycat wholesale? A road discarded and ignored for 7 years by them?
Recipe for disaster.
They have not one ounce of innovation and ingenuity. They will utterly fail with a Sandbox now. They have absolutely NO clue in what to do in Sandboxes.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Because not all Triple A developers produce the same product all the time. And hey by the way guys, there are many good sandbox mmos out there that need community and player support.
Instead of bitching here about the lack of them existing, maybe giving those games a bigger and better community attention may show the developers that there is a genuine interest in that kind of a gaming model.
Otherwise why would they, the developers, spend so much money on a gameplay formula that is seemingly unpopular?
I don't think AAA devs these days can't make a good MMORPG in my eyes, period. If they have so much trouble trying to chase WoW's tail, what makes you think they can do a decent Sandbox? If they fail at following someone else's lead (Blizzard / WoW), what makes you think they can take the lead in a dance for a Sandbox?
For about 7 years, developers have consistently been trying to follow WoW's example yet they fail. For 7 years, they've had no inspiration of their own and tried to mimic Blizzard / WoW. For 7 years, we've seen the roadsides of the treacherous road of MMORPGs littered with the bodies of dead MMORPGs and fallen, yet still twitching titles.
And if they try a Sandbox game, where they have no blatantly large titles to copycat wholesale? A road discarded and ignored for 7 years by them?
Recipe for disaster.
They have not one ounce of innovation and ingenuity. They will utterly fail with a Sandbox now. They have absolutely NO clue in what to do in Sandboxes.
you answered your own question lol. I'll give you an example i can relate too. no matter how good a painter I or anyone else is, when we try to replicate another painting (raft of the medusa...) we will never be able to compare to the original. sure, we have more advanced techniques, better paint and brushes, but it's not the original, just a copy.
in terms of bioligy, when inbreeding occurs the result will be inferior to the two parents.
just a case where immitation, although a form of flattery, it is not a method with which one surpasses.
devs would have an easier time if they create original products
I don't think AAA devs these days can't make a good MMORPG in my eyes, period. If they have so much trouble trying to chase WoW's tail, what makes you think they can do a decent Sandbox? If they fail at following someone else's lead (Blizzard / WoW), what makes you think they can take the lead in a dance for a Sandbox? For about 7 years, developers have consistently been trying to follow WoW's example yet they fail. For 7 years, they've had no inspiration of their own and tried to mimic Blizzard / WoW. For 7 years, we've seen the roadsides of the treacherous road of MMORPGs littered with the bodies of dead MMORPGs and fallen, yet still twitching titles. And if they try a Sandbox game, where they have no blatantly large titles to copycat wholesale? A road discarded and ignored for 7 years by them? Recipe for disaster. They have not one ounce of innovation and ingenuity. They will utterly fail with a Sandbox now. They have absolutely NO clue in what to do in Sandboxes.
you answered your own question lol. I'll give you an example i can relate too. no matter how good a painter I or anyone else is, when we try to replicate another painting (raft of the medusa...) we will never be able to compare to the original. sure, we have more advanced techniques, better paint and brushes, but it's not the original, just a copy.
in terms of bioligy, when inbreeding occurs the result will be inferior to the two parents.
just a case where immitation, although a form of flattery, it is not a method with which one surpasses.
devs would have an easier time if they create original products
I disagree. I just saw Halloween the remake today. You can't say with a straight face that it wasn't better than the original
They have the money, the man power and the greatest minds. (with money you can get all those anyway)
The reason they don't do sandboxes is because the MMO community don't enjoy it. Not the majority at least.
WoW as the leader of the industry show this all the time. But you can also argue that Skyrim is a sandbox and sold pretty well. Then will say that Skyrim is a controlled experience, once you put players there and good mechanics as any sandbox should have some issues starts to appear. As griefing, harrasing, plotting and all the "bad" stuff.
Sandboxes usually requires lot of time investment and understanding. Those requirements are not the way to go for the most mmo players.
I don't think AAA devs these days can't make a good MMORPG in my eyes, period. If they have so much trouble trying to chase WoW's tail, what makes you think they can do a decent Sandbox? If they fail at following someone else's lead (Blizzard / WoW), what makes you think they can take the lead in a dance for a Sandbox?
For about 7 years, developers have consistently been trying to follow WoW's example yet they fail. For 7 years, they've had no inspiration of their own and tried to mimic Blizzard / WoW. For 7 years, we've seen the roadsides of the treacherous road of MMORPGs littered with the bodies of dead MMORPGs and fallen, yet still twitching titles.
And if they try a Sandbox game, where they have no blatantly large titles to copycat wholesale? A road discarded and ignored for 7 years by them?
Recipe for disaster.
They have not one ounce of innovation and ingenuity. They will utterly fail with a Sandbox now. They have absolutely NO clue in what to do in Sandboxes.
you answered your own question lol. I'll give you an example i can relate too. no matter how good a painter I or anyone else is, when we try to replicate another painting (raft of the medusa...) we will never be able to compare to the original. sure, we have more advanced techniques, better paint and brushes, but it's not the original, just a copy.
in terms of bioligy, when inbreeding occurs the result will be inferior to the two parents.
just a case where immitation, although a form of flattery, it is not a method with which one surpasses.
devs would have an easier time if they create original products
I disagree. I just saw Halloween the remake today. You can't say with a straight face that it wasn't better than the original
How much of the movie was composed of actual combat?
So if you ask someone what they'd like to act out from a Star Wars movie you think they'd choose the galactic senate scene over a combat scene?
You seem completely out of touch with what most people want in games.
WOW, I am out of touch with what other people want in a game. I would love an MMO that provided an elected form of government where we ran for office and there were benefits for helping administer the game world.
To make it extra fun, you could put in the ability for players to overthrow the current governement and set up a different one, perhaps a single person dictatorship or Junta, republic, democracy or totally lazaie faire system.
Ah...so much potential MMORPG's could have..... but instead we get "go out and kill 10 rats, er droids" because as you noted, that's what most players seem to want.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
WOW, I am out of touch with what other people want in a game. I would love an MMO that provided an elected form of government where we ran for office and there were benefits for helping administer the game world.
To make it extra fun, you could put in the ability for players to overthrow the current governement and set up a different one, perhaps a single person dictatorship or Junta, republic, democracy or totally lazaie faire system.
Ah...so much potential MMORPG's could have..... but instead we get "go out and kill 10 rats, er droids" because as you noted, that's what most players seem to want.
I could not agree more Kyleran. The socio-political aspect within a virtual world is what really interests me. Perhaps it's time to do away with NPCs altogether?
I think it's sad though, that most gamers have such lack of vision. As I've said before, MMOs are turning into first person shooters. The MMO genre is full of non-MMO gamers.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Originally posted by Ghost12
This whole thinking along the lines "no one likes sandbox!" has got to go. Its juvenile and archaic. It might have been the popular line of thinking in 07-08, but its 2012 now. Get with the times - we have seen themepark after themepark tank.
Also agreed. I think there is a fundamental understanding that escapes some. If themeparks are as popular as some people claim they are, while do they continously fail? We see themepark after themepark fail to hold on to even a tenth of Warcraft's subscribers. Also, these players continously return to Warcraft, which leads me to conclude that themeparks are no where near as popular as people think they are, Warcraft alone is popular. Warcraft was successful in bringing in throgs of gamers that hated MMORPGs, and successfully buit a game that catered to non-MMORPG gamers. So, the genre is full of non-MMORPG gamers. This is why we have seen the slow decline of the features that were originally in MMORPGs, as developers try to chip off some of Warcraft's subscribers and cater to those once MMORPG hating gamers. However, once again, why should they pay to play a cheap imitiation when they can play the original, which in most of their minds is better anyway?
Also, alot of gamers of the current generation have never experienced what a well designed and produced sandbox can be like, save for a few really crappy attempts. They have no real substantive basis for judgment as to whether they would like a sandbox or not. Many just go along with the status quo, because 'themeparks are popular, and I want to be popular too'. It's all just perception.
I sincerely believe that if someone is brave enough to adequately fund the development of a sandbox and do it right, players will come. However, the days of multi-million subscribers is over. No game will EVER gain the same number of subscribers that Warcraft did, even at its lowest point. It's just not going to happen because this genre is a genre of sub-genres.
I don't think AAA devs these days can't make a good MMORPG in my eyes, period. If they have so much trouble trying to chase WoW's tail, what makes you think they can do a decent Sandbox? If they fail at following someone else's lead (Blizzard / WoW), what makes you think they can take the lead in a dance for a Sandbox?
For about 7 years, developers have consistently been trying to follow WoW's example yet they fail. For 7 years, they've had no inspiration of their own and tried to mimic Blizzard / WoW. For 7 years, we've seen the roadsides of the treacherous road of MMORPGs littered with the bodies of dead MMORPGs and fallen, yet still twitching titles.
And if they try a Sandbox game, where they have no blatantly large titles to copycat wholesale? A road discarded and ignored for 7 years by them?
Recipe for disaster.
They have not one ounce of innovation and ingenuity. They will utterly fail with a Sandbox now. They have absolutely NO clue in what to do in Sandboxes.
you answered your own question lol. I'll give you an example i can relate too. no matter how good a painter I or anyone else is, when we try to replicate another painting (raft of the medusa...) we will never be able to compare to the original. sure, we have more advanced techniques, better paint and brushes, but it's not the original, just a copy.
in terms of bioligy, when inbreeding occurs the result will be inferior to the two parents.
just a case where immitation, although a form of flattery, it is not a method with which one surpasses.
devs would have an easier time if they create original products
I disagree. I just saw Halloween the remake today. You can't say with a straight face that it wasn't better than the original
ok. i'll give you that.
Gentlemen, how often are remakes good?
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Comments
linear Themeparks its more easy and safe to devs invest. If we check the most of mmorpgs release this last years it seams player have less and less freedom of choice.
They just design a path to us, and we follow. even if a game come with some freedom, pach over pach it will disapear.
They treat us like kids who need guidance...
About the pool i didnt vote because i dont agree with none.
I can live with low graphics quality if the game have good features, but cant play a game with bad animations. And most of the games i see around close to sandbox have horrible animations IMO.
We need devs with balls to make a AAA quality sandbox or sandpark special in PvE wise, because PvP part its more easy in this case.
I thought the problem wasn't that they made bad themeparks, but that we are all burned out on themeparks?
I mean, if I wasn't so burned out on WoW/Aion I would have thought Rift/DCUO/SWTOR were the greatest things since sliced bread.
Also I think they would make just fine sandbox's, they just need the proper motivation.
Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent
I wouldn't call the people of this site the voice of the mmo community. People on forums are only around to bitch and complain. Take a look around. Most people here hate errrthing. The majority of MMO players don't come to forums. I only do cause I'm at work and get paid a lot of money to sit around.
Sandbox vs Themepark? Really? People are still confused about this?
Themepark: You play a scripted role in a movie (ie the themepark) where you are some kind of hero
Sandbox: You play joe the nobody who is just trying to live his life and exist in a world that is not just a static background meant to look pretty
Some people want to be a scripted hero, some just want to do their own thing in a virtual world, a second life, if you will (and no, SL is not a game, it's a framework)
The OP is another one of 'those guys.'
Just because you didn't like the previous AAA titles doesn't mean they aren't good games.
Aion, Rift, and STWOR are good games. Just not your taste. Oh yeah, that WoW game , I think it was pretty good also...
The entire premise of this thread is ridiculous. If something already has happened, then it logically follows that it could happen.
XDayx is correct. However, I would like to add that the reason why most people don't like MO has nothing to do with the premise (potential some would say) of the game but more with the delivery. But apart from that quick clarification, spot on sir!
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
DCUO, FFXIV, Rift, SWTOR. They are all holding up pretty good. So IDK what you are talking about.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
How much of the movie was composed of actual combat?
I think they do make "good" themepark games.
My problem (and I assume a good amount of other MMO 'vets' share this sentiment) is that I find nothing enticing about themepark games, therefore it really doesn't matter how "good" they are.
we have 2 themeparks coming up that have promise to be good
AND are not wow clones in any sense
TSW & GW2
if both of those fail though I think its safe to say AAA themeparks are pretty much dead, and more Sandpark like games like ArcheAge are the last hope for AAA games in the MMO genre, as big publishers will probably make more money making RPGs like Mass Effect & Skyrim then churning out micro expansions.
Singleplayer sandboxes are completely viable. It's MMO ones that that fail.
Game sandboxes are also completely viable. It's simulation-centric ones that fail.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
So if you ask someone what they'd like to act out from a Star Wars movie you think they'd choose the galactic senate scene over a combat scene?
You seem completely out of touch with what most people want in games.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I don't think AAA devs these days can't make a good MMORPG in my eyes, period. If they have so much trouble trying to chase WoW's tail, what makes you think they can do a decent Sandbox? If they fail at following someone else's lead (Blizzard / WoW), what makes you think they can take the lead in a dance for a Sandbox?
For about 7 years, developers have consistently been trying to follow WoW's example yet they fail. For 7 years, they've had no inspiration of their own and tried to mimic Blizzard / WoW. For 7 years, we've seen the roadsides of the treacherous road of MMORPGs littered with the bodies of dead MMORPGs and fallen, yet still twitching titles.
And if they try a Sandbox game, where they have no blatantly large titles to copycat wholesale? A road discarded and ignored for 7 years by them?
Recipe for disaster.
They have not one ounce of innovation and ingenuity. They will utterly fail with a Sandbox now. They have absolutely NO clue in what to do in Sandboxes.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Because not all Triple A developers produce the same product all the time. And hey by the way guys, there are many good sandbox mmos out there that need community and player support.
Instead of bitching here about the lack of them existing, maybe giving those games a bigger and better community attention may show the developers that there is a genuine interest in that kind of a gaming model.
Otherwise why would they, the developers, spend so much money on a gameplay formula that is seemingly unpopular?
To the OP! What you see as bad AAA Thempark games doesn't make them bad for everyone else.
you answered your own question lol. I'll give you an example i can relate too. no matter how good a painter I or anyone else is, when we try to replicate another painting (raft of the medusa...) we will never be able to compare to the original. sure, we have more advanced techniques, better paint and brushes, but it's not the original, just a copy.
in terms of bioligy, when inbreeding occurs the result will be inferior to the two parents.
just a case where immitation, although a form of flattery, it is not a method with which one surpasses.
devs would have an easier time if they create original products
Ex CCP CMO will kick it off with true virtual world with Pathfinder Online.
And of coarse Archeage Online.
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
you answered your own question lol. I'll give you an example i can relate too. no matter how good a painter I or anyone else is, when we try to replicate another painting (raft of the medusa...) we will never be able to compare to the original. sure, we have more advanced techniques, better paint and brushes, but it's not the original, just a copy.
in terms of bioligy, when inbreeding occurs the result will be inferior to the two parents.
just a case where immitation, although a form of flattery, it is not a method with which one surpasses.
devs would have an easier time if they create original products
I disagree. I just saw Halloween the remake today. You can't say with a straight face that it wasn't better than the originalPhilosophy of MMO Game Design
Sure they can...
They have the money, the man power and the greatest minds. (with money you can get all those anyway)
The reason they don't do sandboxes is because the MMO community don't enjoy it. Not the majority at least.
WoW as the leader of the industry show this all the time. But you can also argue that Skyrim is a sandbox and sold pretty well. Then will say that Skyrim is a controlled experience, once you put players there and good mechanics as any sandbox should have some issues starts to appear. As griefing, harrasing, plotting and all the "bad" stuff.
Sandboxes usually requires lot of time investment and understanding. Those requirements are not the way to go for the most mmo players.
ok. i'll give you that.
WOW, I am out of touch with what other people want in a game. I would love an MMO that provided an elected form of government where we ran for office and there were benefits for helping administer the game world.
To make it extra fun, you could put in the ability for players to overthrow the current governement and set up a different one, perhaps a single person dictatorship or Junta, republic, democracy or totally lazaie faire system.
Ah...so much potential MMORPG's could have..... but instead we get "go out and kill 10 rats, er droids" because as you noted, that's what most players seem to want.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I could not agree more Kyleran. The socio-political aspect within a virtual world is what really interests me. Perhaps it's time to do away with NPCs altogether?
I think it's sad though, that most gamers have such lack of vision. As I've said before, MMOs are turning into first person shooters. The MMO genre is full of non-MMO gamers.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Also agreed. I think there is a fundamental understanding that escapes some. If themeparks are as popular as some people claim they are, while do they continously fail? We see themepark after themepark fail to hold on to even a tenth of Warcraft's subscribers. Also, these players continously return to Warcraft, which leads me to conclude that themeparks are no where near as popular as people think they are, Warcraft alone is popular. Warcraft was successful in bringing in throgs of gamers that hated MMORPGs, and successfully buit a game that catered to non-MMORPG gamers. So, the genre is full of non-MMORPG gamers. This is why we have seen the slow decline of the features that were originally in MMORPGs, as developers try to chip off some of Warcraft's subscribers and cater to those once MMORPG hating gamers. However, once again, why should they pay to play a cheap imitiation when they can play the original, which in most of their minds is better anyway?
Also, alot of gamers of the current generation have never experienced what a well designed and produced sandbox can be like, save for a few really crappy attempts. They have no real substantive basis for judgment as to whether they would like a sandbox or not. Many just go along with the status quo, because 'themeparks are popular, and I want to be popular too'. It's all just perception.
I sincerely believe that if someone is brave enough to adequately fund the development of a sandbox and do it right, players will come. However, the days of multi-million subscribers is over. No game will EVER gain the same number of subscribers that Warcraft did, even at its lowest point. It's just not going to happen because this genre is a genre of sub-genres.
I would love to see a hybid mmo, which can includes both types of playstyle.
Hoping soon a company can do that.
RIP Orc Choppa
Gentlemen, how often are remakes good?
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)