When a smaller company gets bought up by a corporation these things happens. Bioware are now 4 different studios.
Corps seems to love meetings and micromanage people, you can´t compare that to smaller companies, like Bioware themselves were when they made Baldurs gate.
But Blizzard is not that different either.
I amactually surprised that games aren't worse than they are, I mean TOR is after all not a bad game. It isn't very innovative or the best MMO ever made but it could have been alot worse.
When Blizz created WoW it was industry changing, like it or not WoW changed the genre, Tor has done nothing of the like. Comparing Bioware to blizz is like apples and oranges to me at least, blizz delivered a 10-12 million sub game, Tor is struggling to get 1 mill despit all their 1.7 mill claims.
That said, I really respect Loke so I am not bashing him just pointing out the differences between Blizz and Bioware.
One produced a winner and the other a steaming pile a bantha poop that could have been so much more if they did not copy the aforementioned game.
I knew Bioware Austin would turn out this way right from the beginning. But I have worked in a number of situations like this as a professional non-game programmer.
Its quite common in the software industry. I found it sad that Bioware was heading down this path, but in the end its so very easy to lie to yourself when you think you have a big fish on the line and when you are looked to provide leadership you have to provide assertive positivity.
Sometimes its like driving a car with someone else's foot on the gas pedal. People say Bioware is driving and its kind of true in that they control the steering wheel. But trying to take a turn when you have no control of the gas or the brakes is not exactly "driving".
Then people sit back and second guess and say "Why didn't they know better? I know they knew better ..."
"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.
"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.
Which is still greater than a chared corpse.
OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.
Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.
Which is still greater than a chared corpse.
OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.
Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.
This is one of the best summations of SWG I've seen in quite some time.
I feel like it was a nice liittle project had it never been the first/main Star Wars mmorpg.
Great quote in the comments beneath it "If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.
Which is still greater than a chared corpse.
OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.
Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.
What they did create was a world you could be in, that for me captured the Star Wars movies perfectly, not everyone can be the hero in the movie and if they could then it would be meaningless, SWG, Tatooine at dusk in a sandstorm, the wind whistling past, miles from the nearest city, now that's puts TORs "living breathing world" into context. And I did watch the movies in the cinema first time round.
"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.
Which is still greater than a chared corpse.
OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.
Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.
SWG did plenty to bring back SW memories, and I saw the films in the cinema from the 70s. You just needed imagination and other players with same mindset to make happen, and make Star wars the way you want it to happen. All other SW games try and create the SW action for you, and usually fail. If SWG failed then it is because people failed to make it work for themselves.
"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.
Which is still greater than a chared corpse.
OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.
Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.
SWG did plenty to bring back SW memories, and I saw the films in the cinema from the 70s. You just needed imagination and other players with same mindset to make happen, and make Star wars the way you want it to happen. All other SW games try and create the SW action for you, and usually fail. If SWG failed then it is because people failed to make it work for themselves.
Like I said....a stage for roleplayers.
As a game SW sucked the big one. This is my opinion, and one shared by many as evidenced in the fact that SWG couldnt beat out EQ among us "gaming nerds" long before MMOs went mainstream with WoW.
HAd Koster been more concerned with PVE, ala EQ, SWG would still be kicking till this very day IMO. It was simply self defeating to cater the SW IP to the RP crowd.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.
Which is still greater than a chared corpse.
OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.
Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.
SWG did plenty to bring back SW memories, and I saw the films in the cinema from the 70s. You just needed imagination and other players with same mindset to make happen, and make Star wars the way you want it to happen. All other SW games try and create the SW action for you, and usually fail. If SWG failed then it is because people failed to make it work for themselves.
Like I said....a stage for roleplayers.
As a game SW sucked the big one. This is my opinion, and one shared by many as evidenced in the fact that SWG couldnt beat out EQ among us "gaming nerds" long before MMOs went mainstream with WoW.
HAd Koster been more concerned with PVE, ala EQ, SWG would still be kicking till this very day IMO. It was simply self defeating to cater the SW IP to the RP crowd.
Or you know if they would have like tried to make the game better instead of just different... naw couldn't be that simple.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I got my money out of TOR, I am not strict with getting my money out of a game, as I equate it with other forms of entertainment. So I cannot say they robbed me, or that I didn't get my money worth...
I think as a single player type story it was shallow, due to having to cater to being multiplayer, even though they could of done simple flagging, to make it when you got done with a quest and crushed whatever rebellious faction you did, that they were not neutral to you. This should of been easy enough, it wouldn't of saved it, but just little things like that would of been nice, and obtainable...Now string together a few of those things, and the story aspect would of atleast seemed to matter more and change things.
My wife and I played TOR, same class, she chose light side, I chose dark, and their was one extra npc I fought at the end of my story, because I didn't care if I killed him, and she warned him...Not much else with different, it seemed very cosmetic.
I think the over instancing, and rat maze cities/worlds (not all, but most) made for weak mmo aspects, it was very linear, and when I got to end game, their was a ton of bugs and broken quests...Simple little quests that you did a hundred times on other planets, but they didn't work on Ilum (sp?)...We even took our sweet time getting there, often doing every quest on a planet we could find, and bonus series stuff....
Thats why I say I got my money worth, I played for a month or so, but as a MMO, it didn't have much replayability, and I think the mesh of MMO and their single player story style didn't quite work...Crafting stuff, besides stims seemed pretty useless/obsolete in the end game. I know they supposedly were working on that, so I don't know now if it is any better.
I just expected more, and I wasn't really expecting a lot, so money worth, yes...Me paying a sub and wanting to replay, or play their end game...no. I have had enough credit/token/badge grinding, I find this version of grinding dull/tired anymore, and I am a person that doesn't mind XP grinding, over quest hubs...
"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.
Which is still greater than a chared corpse.
OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.
Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.
SWG did plenty to bring back SW memories, and I saw the films in the cinema from the 70s. You just needed imagination and other players with same mindset to make happen, and make Star wars the way you want it to happen. All other SW games try and create the SW action for you, and usually fail. If SWG failed then it is because people failed to make it work for themselves.
Like I said....a stage for roleplayers.
As a game SW sucked the big one. This is my opinion, and one shared by many as evidenced in the fact that SWG couldnt beat out EQ among us "gaming nerds" long before MMOs went mainstream with WoW.
HAd Koster been more concerned with PVE, ala EQ, SWG would still be kicking till this very day IMO. It was simply self defeating to cater the SW IP to the RP crowd.
Or you know if they would have like tried to make the game better instead of just different... naw couldn't be that simple.
If they didn't have LA directing things, they could of took the CU/NGE time/money and added content, class/nuff teaking/balancing, and fixed battlefields and added some PvP stuff also.....Game needed that, way more than a rewrite. Could of added like a battle of Hoth pvp scenario or something cool, better base pvp stuff, or a planet for it (yes, TOR did it, and it sucks, but uhm actually do it right heh)... Lot they could of done, game needed work, just not a NGE.
Well that gets a holy shit from me and almost to the point I refuse to believe Dallas Dickinson spoke so candedly because that is a PR NIGHTMARE if it is true.
He admitted they hired extremely junior people for the title and rushed the developement by throwing people at it. Not to mention they KNEW a crap ton of stuff was missing and still launched the game. wtf were they thinking?
Originally posted by Alders
Every time i see something like this i always go back to this article.
"You can't develop an MMO in a traditional game-studio culture"
SE learned this the hard way with XIV and i feel BW has made a lot of the same mistakes. Now don't freak out, i'm not saying TOR is as bad as XIV. It's a decent game but i notice many similarities dev/studio wise.
This coming from a studio that mmo was so sad they had to re label it a CORPG and it did not even have jumping. My faith in ArenaNET is obviously not as strong as some of you guys when it comes to quality. ArenaNET lecturing devs about what a mmorpg is a joke IMO because they have never made one.
Jeff Strain is the one talking and he was the lead programmer on the biggest MMO success, World of Warcraft. I think it is safe to say he at least has far more experience with MMO success than anyone at Bioware Austin. Also I don't remember GuildWars ever being called a MMO by ArenaNet, they always called it a CoRPG. Everyone else called it a MMO because it didn't have a category. As far as their success, well they sold 6.5 million + games in the guild wars franchise. Even broken down per game they sold more copies than most MMO's. Their game(s) also features almost everything a MMO has except persistent zones that everyone can run around in. So it isn't like they have no idea what they are talking about.
Keep in mind this is coming from someone who did not like GW1.
"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.
Which is still greater than a chared corpse.
OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.
Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.
SWG did plenty to bring back SW memories, and I saw the films in the cinema from the 70s. You just needed imagination and other players with same mindset to make happen, and make Star wars the way you want it to happen. All other SW games try and create the SW action for you, and usually fail. If SWG failed then it is because people failed to make it work for themselves.
Like I said....a stage for roleplayers.
As a game SW sucked the big one. This is my opinion, and one shared by many as evidenced in the fact that SWG couldnt beat out EQ among us "gaming nerds" long before MMOs went mainstream with WoW.
HAd Koster been more concerned with PVE, ala EQ, SWG would still be kicking till this very day IMO. It was simply self defeating to cater the SW IP to the RP crowd.
Or you know if they would have like tried to make the game better instead of just different... naw couldn't be that simple.
That is the thing though isnt it? SWG was a smoldering piece of shit, and nothing they did made it better. You can guys can spout off about how "wonderful" things were with SWG in the vet forum, but I sure as hell am not going to sit here reading your rose colored revisionist history about things that arent based in reality. Especially not in the TOR forum.
Koster is gone.....his gaming ideas are a sham in the MMO sphere. Perhaps you could join him on his facebook apps.
Hell Farmville should be their dreams come true.....video chores with a social outlet.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
This is quite strange news for the following reasons:
This game has been in development since 2005 but, for some reason - as this interview reveals - there was a major shake-up six months before launch. 'People were crying', says Dickinson,'at features that had to be cut'.
I wonder which features these were? And whay they had to be cut? And why siz years of development had suddenly gone wrong?
I also wonder if this crisis in February 2011 had anything to do with Gordon Walton's sudden and strange departure? He had been the project ead since 2005 and then, with the end literally in sight, he suddenly left the company.
Damn, now I really want to know what the original design docs for SWTOR entailed.
I can understand that after the failure to work effectively as a whole they had to split into strike teams, focused on certain features but that also explains why all the features don't cohesively come together.
This insight has helped me to understand even more how implausible a "perfect" AAA sandbox MMORPG is to develop considering what it took for a mostly-to-the-formula MMORPG.
"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.
Which is still greater than a chared corpse.
OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.
Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.
SWG did plenty to bring back SW memories, and I saw the films in the cinema from the 70s. You just needed imagination and other players with same mindset to make happen, and make Star wars the way you want it to happen. All other SW games try and create the SW action for you, and usually fail. If SWG failed then it is because people failed to make it work for themselves.
Like I said....a stage for roleplayers.
As a game SW sucked the big one. This is my opinion, and one shared by many as evidenced in the fact that SWG couldnt beat out EQ among us "gaming nerds" long before MMOs went mainstream with WoW.
HAd Koster been more concerned with PVE, ala EQ, SWG would still be kicking till this very day IMO. It was simply self defeating to cater the SW IP to the RP crowd.
Or you know if they would have like tried to make the game better instead of just different... naw couldn't be that simple.
That is the thing though isnt it? SWG was a smoldering piece of shit, and nothing they did made it better. You can guys can spout off about how "wonderful" things were with SWG in the vet forum, but I sure as hell am not going to sit here reading your rose colored revisionist history about things that arent based in reality. Especially not in the TOR forum.
Koster is gone.....his gaming ideas are a sham in the MMO sphere. Perhaps you could join him on his facebook apps.
Hell Farmville should be their dreams come true.....video chores with a social outlet.
You do realize that Koster designed Ultima Online right? First MMORPG and all that...game which paved the way for every MMORPG after.
I mean, I'm just saying. Kind of silly to say the founder of the genre's ideas are a sham...
Reading that article makes me wonder if SWTOR wasn't a victim of its own deep pockets. Sometimes a huge team is far less productive than a smaller team because of organizational problems, lack of a shared vision, lack of flexibility, etc.
It reminds me of this book called the "Mythical Man Month," in which the author describes that you can't simply throw more people at a software development project and expect it to get done faster.
Their first problem was aiming at 1,000,000 subs. They were looking at the $$ before the quality of the game itself. You can't make these things based on money and expect them to be great. Any great artist or designer or writer or director will tell you this. You have to make the game, movie, song, book you feel in your heart. You can add the head part after in post processing, final drafts, etc.
Bingo. Exactly what I was thinking while reading it.
They weren't designing for an epic and incredible gaming experience. They were designing for a pre-determined bottom-line.
That distinction has been demonstrated time and again, and it's what makes what seems like the stereotype of "cold, heartless corporate suits who care only about $$$" come into the cold, hard focus of reality.
Look at a company like Irrational games with making games like BioShock and now Bioshock Infinite. Check out some of the interviews with Ken Levine and listen to the passion the man has for what he and his team are creating. I know Bioshock isn't a MMORPG, but it doesn't matter. The principle can be applied to any genre, and indeed, any medium.
There's a couple videos I saw recently where he's working with the voice actors for Booker and Elizabeth and Ken not only wrote the script (or so it seems from a remark made in the video), but he's right there, coaching, directing and collaborating with them to get the best possible and most genuine sounding performance he can out of them.
Companies like Irrational craft experiences to engage, entertain and move their players. Companies like EA/Bioware produce products to line their wallets as much as possible. There's a huge difference and the proof is in the playing.
Once upon a time, I'd have readily placed Bioware in the same category as Irrational. Not anymore, though. Now they're just another branch of the EA Money-Making Machine.
"If SWG was like the original trilogy, then SWTOR is like the prequels."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.
Which is still greater than a chared corpse.
OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.
Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.
SWG did plenty to bring back SW memories, and I saw the films in the cinema from the 70s. You just needed imagination and other players with same mindset to make happen, and make Star wars the way you want it to happen. All other SW games try and create the SW action for you, and usually fail. If SWG failed then it is because people failed to make it work for themselves.
Like I said....a stage for roleplayers.
As a game SW sucked the big one. This is my opinion, and one shared by many as evidenced in the fact that SWG couldnt beat out EQ among us "gaming nerds" long before MMOs went mainstream with WoW.
HAd Koster been more concerned with PVE, ala EQ, SWG would still be kicking till this very day IMO. It was simply self defeating to cater the SW IP to the RP crowd.
Or you know if they would have like tried to make the game better instead of just different... naw couldn't be that simple.
That is the thing though isnt it? SWG was a smoldering piece of shit, and nothing they did made it better. You can guys can spout off about how "wonderful" things were with SWG in the vet forum, but I sure as hell am not going to sit here reading your rose colored revisionist history about things that arent based in reality. Especially not in the TOR forum.
Koster is gone.....his gaming ideas are a sham in the MMO sphere. Perhaps you could join him on his facebook apps.
Hell Farmville should be their dreams come true.....video chores with a social outlet.
You do realize that Koster designed Ultima Online right? First MMORPG and all that...game which paved the way for every MMORPG after.
I mean, I'm just saying. Kind of silly to say the founder of the genre's ideas are a sham...
Um I dont think so. I started with EQ, and if there was one thing EQ brought to the MMO world, other than a good PVE game, it was the fact that other gamers shouldnt be allowed to fuck up a persons enjoyment. Enjoyment doesnt come from a virtual economic sim....at least not to most.
IMO Koster wouldnt understand "fun" if someone cawkslapped him with it.
Since you have so much respect for the man, then I suggest you support his new venture. The man couldnt cut it in the MMO sphere, but I am sure he would like you to purchase his facebook apps. Which quite frankly is pure comic gold....the guy you sandboxers worship is producing the shit serious gamers have a disdain for.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
You do realize that Koster designed Ultima Online right? First MMORPG and all that...game which paved the way for every MMORPG after.
I mean, I'm just saying. Kind of silly to say the founder of the genre's ideas are a sham...
It means he was a 'one hit' wonder, in a small town.
When UO released, the genre was still starting out, with almost zero real competition. As the market grew, and competition arose, he fell solidly to obscurity.
Comments
Applying the automobile assembly process to artistic projects definitely has its downsides.
When Blizz created WoW it was industry changing, like it or not WoW changed the genre, Tor has done nothing of the like. Comparing Bioware to blizz is like apples and oranges to me at least, blizz delivered a 10-12 million sub game, Tor is struggling to get 1 mill despit all their 1.7 mill claims.
That said, I really respect Loke so I am not bashing him just pointing out the differences between Blizz and Bioware.
One produced a winner and the other a steaming pile a bantha poop that could have been so much more if they did not copy the aforementioned game.
I knew Bioware Austin would turn out this way right from the beginning. But I have worked in a number of situations like this as a professional non-game programmer.
Its quite common in the software industry. I found it sad that Bioware was heading down this path, but in the end its so very easy to lie to yourself when you think you have a big fish on the line and when you are looked to provide leadership you have to provide assertive positivity.
Sometimes its like driving a car with someone else's foot on the gas pedal. People say Bioware is driving and its kind of true in that they control the steering wheel. But trying to take a turn when you have no control of the gas or the brakes is not exactly "driving".
Then people sit back and second guess and say "Why didn't they know better? I know they knew better ..."
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.Which is still greater than a chared corpse.
OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.
Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
This is one of the best summations of SWG I've seen in quite some time.
I feel like it was a nice liittle project had it never been the first/main Star Wars mmorpg.
Actually SWG wasnt like the OT. I sure dont remember "Uncle Own price wars", nor do I remember "Lets decorate our house".
Had SWG actually captured the essence of Star Wars.....you know the exciting action.....then folks would of played the game, and the few that did like it wouldnt of saw it cancelled.
The OT is still being rereleased to theatres, and the only thing SWG shares with it is burnt n crispy Owen. Which is basically what SWG is these days.
Well Hayden Christensens acting was as wooden as a SWTOR NPC.Which is still greater than a chared corpse.
OK maybe not....I couldnt stand him....but the point remains. SWG did nothing to bring back those childhood fantasies of many that were around in the 70s to see the actual release of SWs.....me included. Instead it was simply a RP stage, with some PVP/PVE thrown in. A niche title that deserved its demise. You dont dedicate the SW IP so 100k-ish fans, holding 200k-ish subs, can play house.
Raph Koster packed his bags from the MMO sandbox world cause he knew they were not viable. Pity his disciples cant get the clue.
What they did create was a world you could be in, that for me captured the Star Wars movies perfectly, not everyone can be the hero in the movie and if they could then it would be meaningless, SWG, Tatooine at dusk in a sandstorm, the wind whistling past, miles from the nearest city, now that's puts TORs "living breathing world" into context. And I did watch the movies in the cinema first time round.SWG did plenty to bring back SW memories, and I saw the films in the cinema from the 70s. You just needed imagination and other players with same mindset to make happen, and make Star wars the way you want it to happen. All other SW games try and create the SW action for you, and usually fail. If SWG failed then it is because people failed to make it work for themselves.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Like I said....a stage for roleplayers.
As a game SW sucked the big one. This is my opinion, and one shared by many as evidenced in the fact that SWG couldnt beat out EQ among us "gaming nerds" long before MMOs went mainstream with WoW.
HAd Koster been more concerned with PVE, ala EQ, SWG would still be kicking till this very day IMO. It was simply self defeating to cater the SW IP to the RP crowd.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Or you know if they would have like tried to make the game better instead of just different... naw couldn't be that simple.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I got my money out of TOR, I am not strict with getting my money out of a game, as I equate it with other forms of entertainment. So I cannot say they robbed me, or that I didn't get my money worth...
I think as a single player type story it was shallow, due to having to cater to being multiplayer, even though they could of done simple flagging, to make it when you got done with a quest and crushed whatever rebellious faction you did, that they were not neutral to you. This should of been easy enough, it wouldn't of saved it, but just little things like that would of been nice, and obtainable...Now string together a few of those things, and the story aspect would of atleast seemed to matter more and change things.
My wife and I played TOR, same class, she chose light side, I chose dark, and their was one extra npc I fought at the end of my story, because I didn't care if I killed him, and she warned him...Not much else with different, it seemed very cosmetic.
I think the over instancing, and rat maze cities/worlds (not all, but most) made for weak mmo aspects, it was very linear, and when I got to end game, their was a ton of bugs and broken quests...Simple little quests that you did a hundred times on other planets, but they didn't work on Ilum (sp?)...We even took our sweet time getting there, often doing every quest on a planet we could find, and bonus series stuff....
Thats why I say I got my money worth, I played for a month or so, but as a MMO, it didn't have much replayability, and I think the mesh of MMO and their single player story style didn't quite work...Crafting stuff, besides stims seemed pretty useless/obsolete in the end game. I know they supposedly were working on that, so I don't know now if it is any better.
I just expected more, and I wasn't really expecting a lot, so money worth, yes...Me paying a sub and wanting to replay, or play their end game...no. I have had enough credit/token/badge grinding, I find this version of grinding dull/tired anymore, and I am a person that doesn't mind XP grinding, over quest hubs...
If they didn't have LA directing things, they could of took the CU/NGE time/money and added content, class/nuff teaking/balancing, and fixed battlefields and added some PvP stuff also.....Game needed that, way more than a rewrite. Could of added like a battle of Hoth pvp scenario or something cool, better base pvp stuff, or a planet for it (yes, TOR did it, and it sucks, but uhm actually do it right heh)... Lot they could of done, game needed work, just not a NGE.
And this gives an alarming insight into just how much of a festering puddle of sh*t professional game reviewing has devolved into.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Jeff Strain is the one talking and he was the lead programmer on the biggest MMO success, World of Warcraft. I think it is safe to say he at least has far more experience with MMO success than anyone at Bioware Austin. Also I don't remember GuildWars ever being called a MMO by ArenaNet, they always called it a CoRPG. Everyone else called it a MMO because it didn't have a category. As far as their success, well they sold 6.5 million + games in the guild wars franchise. Even broken down per game they sold more copies than most MMO's. Their game(s) also features almost everything a MMO has except persistent zones that everyone can run around in. So it isn't like they have no idea what they are talking about.
Keep in mind this is coming from someone who did not like GW1.
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Eat me!
That is the thing though isnt it? SWG was a smoldering piece of shit, and nothing they did made it better. You can guys can spout off about how "wonderful" things were with SWG in the vet forum, but I sure as hell am not going to sit here reading your rose colored revisionist history about things that arent based in reality. Especially not in the TOR forum.
Koster is gone.....his gaming ideas are a sham in the MMO sphere. Perhaps you could join him on his facebook apps.
Hell Farmville should be their dreams come true.....video chores with a social outlet.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
This is quite strange news for the following reasons:
This game has been in development since 2005 but, for some reason - as this interview reveals - there was a major shake-up six months before launch. 'People were crying', says Dickinson,'at features that had to be cut'.
I wonder which features these were? And whay they had to be cut? And why siz years of development had suddenly gone wrong?
I also wonder if this crisis in February 2011 had anything to do with Gordon Walton's sudden and strange departure? He had been the project ead since 2005 and then, with the end literally in sight, he suddenly left the company.
Damn, now I really want to know what the original design docs for SWTOR entailed.
I can understand that after the failure to work effectively as a whole they had to split into strike teams, focused on certain features but that also explains why all the features don't cohesively come together.
This insight has helped me to understand even more how implausible a "perfect" AAA sandbox MMORPG is to develop considering what it took for a mostly-to-the-formula MMORPG.
You do realize that Koster designed Ultima Online right? First MMORPG and all that...game which paved the way for every MMORPG after.
I mean, I'm just saying. Kind of silly to say the founder of the genre's ideas are a sham...
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Reading that article makes me wonder if SWTOR wasn't a victim of its own deep pockets. Sometimes a huge team is far less productive than a smaller team because of organizational problems, lack of a shared vision, lack of flexibility, etc.
It reminds me of this book called the "Mythical Man Month," in which the author describes that you can't simply throw more people at a software development project and expect it to get done faster.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Bingo. Exactly what I was thinking while reading it.
They weren't designing for an epic and incredible gaming experience. They were designing for a pre-determined bottom-line.
That distinction has been demonstrated time and again, and it's what makes what seems like the stereotype of "cold, heartless corporate suits who care only about $$$" come into the cold, hard focus of reality.
Look at a company like Irrational games with making games like BioShock and now Bioshock Infinite. Check out some of the interviews with Ken Levine and listen to the passion the man has for what he and his team are creating. I know Bioshock isn't a MMORPG, but it doesn't matter. The principle can be applied to any genre, and indeed, any medium.
There's a couple videos I saw recently where he's working with the voice actors for Booker and Elizabeth and Ken not only wrote the script (or so it seems from a remark made in the video), but he's right there, coaching, directing and collaborating with them to get the best possible and most genuine sounding performance he can out of them.
Part 1
Part 2
Obligatory Warning: harsh language.
Companies like Irrational craft experiences to engage, entertain and move their players. Companies like EA/Bioware produce products to line their wallets as much as possible. There's a huge difference and the proof is in the playing.
Once upon a time, I'd have readily placed Bioware in the same category as Irrational. Not anymore, though. Now they're just another branch of the EA Money-Making Machine.
Um I dont think so. I started with EQ, and if there was one thing EQ brought to the MMO world, other than a good PVE game, it was the fact that other gamers shouldnt be allowed to fuck up a persons enjoyment. Enjoyment doesnt come from a virtual economic sim....at least not to most.
IMO Koster wouldnt understand "fun" if someone cawkslapped him with it.
Since you have so much respect for the man, then I suggest you support his new venture. The man couldnt cut it in the MMO sphere, but I am sure he would like you to purchase his facebook apps. Which quite frankly is pure comic gold....the guy you sandboxers worship is producing the shit serious gamers have a disdain for.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
It means he was a 'one hit' wonder, in a small town.
When UO released, the genre was still starting out, with almost zero real competition. As the market grew, and competition arose, he fell solidly to obscurity.
Well spotted. I mean we've always suspected but the evidence seems quite damning.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?