Every aspect of our country is easy mode now, schooling, college, games, TV shows, Movies...All a buch of flashy trash because America's are like little babies, they like bright flashy colors.
Most other countries and developers know this and you can read many articles on it on the internet. We have become a country of children who are extremely narcissistic.
We are a de-evloving society in America with a ton of money we pretend really matters.
Well, talking about MMO's, take in mind that the first ones were created with the words "virtual world" in mind, the first priority was the in game world even before the in game player, that genre is no more, is just dead, in today's market you have just online games that try to appeal to all kind of players no matter what, if that hurts the game itself they just dont care, you can call it soulness or something similar but the fact its that these games are made like the single player ones, i think that even internally the put a have a life span of 3 months on them.
What you experience, how you look at things, that's what people have been experiencing for centuries, I even read accounts of Roman scribes who complained how things had changed and how in the days that they were young everything was better and more genuine.
When you're young, you don't see or care for things behind the curtain or you only see the magic. As you grow older and older, you start to see behind the glamor and magic, and you'll see more and more the wizard behind the curtains. Fact is though, that things have always been about money and profit and motivations other than just ideals, because people in nature haven't changed. It's you who have changed and grow older and more insightful. Your perspective has changed from what it was when you were young, just like it changes for most people as they grow older and find that the movies or other entertainment that kids of these days enjoy mostly just doesn't do it for them anymore.
You were simply more ignorant and accepting of stuff when you were younger, just like most people are when they're young, while when you grow older you become more critical, sceptic and less accepting and flexible to new things. That's when people start talking about the 'good, old days', just like the generation before them did when they got older and the generation before that and so on.
The whole 'real' discussion, sorry, that's just your perception. Movies, tv, music, there have always been strong motives of money before creativity involved. People were the same a few decades ago as they're now. Besides, I'd say that examples like the Lord of the Rings movies and a hell of a lot of uncompromising quality tv shows, from Walking Dead to Breaking Bad to Game of Thrones to the Wire etc etc are examples enough that things haven't turned out fake. I think that a Game of Thrones or Battlestar Galactica remake beats a Dukes of Hazard or A-Team or the original Battlestar Galactica any time.
You have changed, pal, you aren't the (relatively) ignorant or carefree kid of 10-20 years old anymore that you were back then.
Sex won't be as great anymore as it was those first blissful years, relationships won't be as magical anymore as the first one(s) and feel more like business as usual, and experiences will simply leave you less and less awestruck with lower heights of excitement than they did when you were young, the more sortlike experiences you've had and gathered.
Ok, I won't say you are not right, but when i was playing EQ i was 40yo, and I was absolutely crazy about it. If I watch again The Twilight Zone, I can't see behind the glamour, I can't see greed, I see an amazing writer showing you his stories which are his life. Compare that to the second edition of TTZ, which was more like we have now, something which ok, it's not bad, but lacks soul. And imagine how would it be now with CGI and brainless productors guiding the project.
So maybe it's both things, age and industry not producing content as interesting as they did.
Sorry I still don't think so. Just because there are examples from back in the day of people making things because they really want to entertain people doesn't mean they all were, or even that that was the norm. It just means there were some. Again there were some really bad knockoffs of games/movies/books published only to capitalize on blockbuster. Someone mentioned Ms. Packman and all the packman clones. The zillions of tetris clones are another. Or how about all the killer clown movies and killer doll movies that came out - catching trying to ride the poltergeist or chucky wagon.
Or the movie "the Stuff" A hackneyed knock off of The Blob which itself wasn't good but was mildly entertaining.
The point is that I honestly do not believe there is any more or less (percentage wise) developers out there that are making things just to get money now than there were in the past, or that there there were developers in the past out to really make an entertaining product in there past than there were today.
In the past there ones designed only to make money and there ones that were really trying to entertain. Today there are ones really trying to entertain and ones just trying to make money. Percentagewise I don't think there is a difference.
People in general haven't changed. Businesses in general haven't changed (I'm not talking about tech or processes here) because they are run by the same people.
However your individual perspective may and likley has changed over the years. You are seeing things different than you were 20 years ago.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
You're getting old pal, that's it. What you experience, how you look at things, that's what people have been experiencing for centuries, I even read accounts of Roman scribes who complained how things had changed and how in the days that they were young everything was better and more genuine. When you're young, you don't see or care for things behind the curtain or you only see the magic. As you grow older and older, you start to see behind the glamor and magic, and you'll see more and more the wizard behind the curtains. Fact is though, that things have always been about money and profit and motivations other than just ideals, because people in nature haven't changed. It's you who have changed and grow older and more insightful. Your perspective has changed from what it was when you were young, just like it changes for most people as they grow older and find that the movies or other entertainment that kids of these days enjoy mostly just doesn't do it for them anymore. You were simply more ignorant and accepting of stuff when you were younger, just like most people are when they're young, while when you grow older you become more critical, sceptic and less accepting and flexible to new things. That's when people start talking about the 'good, old days', just like the generation before them did when they got older and the generation before that and so on. The whole 'real' discussion, sorry, that's just your perception. Movies, tv, music, there have always been strong motives of money before creativity involved. People were the same a few decades ago as they're now. Besides, I'd say that examples like the Lord of the Rings movies and a hell of a lot of uncompromising quality tv shows, from Walking Dead to Breaking Bad to Game of Thrones to the Wire etc etc are examples enough that things haven't turned out fake. I think that a Game of Thrones or Battlestar Galactica remake beats a Dukes of Hazard or A-Team or the original Battlestar Galactica any time. You have changed, pal, you aren't the (relatively) ignorant or carefree kid of 10-20 years old anymore that you were back then. Sex won't be as great anymore as it was those first blissful years, relationships won't be as magical anymore as the first one(s) and feel more like business as usual, and experiences will simply leave you less and less awestruck with lower heights of excitement than they did when you were young, the more sortlike experiences you've had and gathered.
Ok, I won't say you are not right, but when i was playing EQ i was 40yo, and I was absolutely crazy about it. If I watch again The Twilight Zone, I can't see behind the glamour, I can't see greed, I see an amazing writer showing you his stories which are his life. Compare that to the second edition of TTZ, which was more like we have now, something which ok, it's not bad, but lacks soul. And imagine how would it be now with CGI and brainless productors guiding the project.
So maybe it's both things, age and industry not producing content as interesting as they did.
Sorry I still don't think so. Just because there are examples from back in the day of people making things because they really want to entertain people doesn't mean they all were, or even that that was the norm. It just means there were some. Again there were some really bad knockoffs of games/movies/books published only to capitalize on blockbuster. Someone mentioned Ms. Packman and all the packman clones. The zillions of tetris clones are another. Or how about all the killer clown movies and killer doll movies that came out - catching trying to ride the poltergeist or chucky wagon.
Or the movie "the Stuff" A hackneyed knock off of The Blob which itself wasn't good but was mildly entertaining.
The point is that I honestly do not believe there is any more or less (percentage wise) developers out there that are making things just to get money now than there were in the past, or that there there were developers in the past out to really make an entertaining product in there past than there were today.
In the past there ones designed only to make money and there ones that were really trying to entertain. Today there are ones really trying to entertain and ones just trying to make money. Percentagewise I don't think there is a difference.
In other threads as
People in general haven't changed. Businesses in general haven't changed (I'm not talking about tech or processes here) because they are run by the same people.
However your individual perspective may and likley has changed over the years. You are seeing things different than you were 20 years ago.
Or simply your tastes change as you grow older, what was once exciting now feels shallow and what was once boring now feels rich.
Well, there indeed IS more ripoff happening nowadays compared to 20 years ago.
Media as an industry has seen extreme growth and a whole lot of people want a piece of that cake, and they will go any length to achieve this.
Just look at browser-based cash-shop games, look at movie adaptions of successful TV shows, novels, heck, even comics, at sequel-mania (everything part 2, 3, 4, 5), look at commercial ads that grow through everything like cancer, i-phone app or f2p game alike...
OP has a point, 20 years ago, although I was 10 back then, people didn't want to nickel and dime you every time you tried to consume 'media' (which was newspaper and TV back then).
Oh and as far as MMOs that are being developed with soul:
Wakfu The Repopulation Dominus ArcheAge Wildstar Salem
Thats more than your list of old school real mmos. You should check em out.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
It basically comes down to money and ego. Everyone wants fortune and glory instead of making quality products. Shows like American Idol and The Voice are perfect examples of this. Do you think anyone goes on these shows simply because they "love" music? No, they want to be famous multimillionaires. Yes, some can sing well but it lacks soul and feels hollow. Same thing happens with other products, including MMOs.
I read all the replies, I'm sure there is truth in every one of them. Of course age has a role in my perception, but some younger people have the same feeling as I do.
As i wrote several times in this forum already:
Before, people loved to do something and made money because of it.
Now, people love to make money and do something because of it.
Doesn't mean people didn't want to make money before, of course they did, but they had a passion beyond money that lead their lives and the things they did.
Back in the days, that kind of people had acces to the means to realize their dreams. But now they don't, and another kind of people is being supported.
I read all the replies, I'm sure there is truth in every one of them. Of course age has a role in my perception, but some younger people have the same feeling as I do.
As i wrote several times in this forum already:
Before, people loved to do something and made money because of it.
Now, people love to make money and do something because of it.
Doesn't mean people didn't want to make money before, of course they did, but they had a passion beyond money that lead their lives and the things they did.
Back in the days, that kind of people had acces to the means to realize their dreams. But now they don't, and another kind of people is being supported.
Before, some people loved to do something and made money because of it, and some simply made it for the money
Now, some people love to make money and do something because of it, and some people love to do something and made money because of it.
Today IMO there is far far more opportunity for people to have access and realize their dreams, far more opportunity to do something you love and make money because of it. Internet and Social Media as essentially leveled the entertainment playing field. A single person in their basement can access just as many people as multi-billion dollar conglomerate entertainment companies. Today indies have more exposure than ever before, and thus can capitalize and market themselves quicker and easier than ever before. Getting media attention and turning that into an advantage is easier than ever before in the known history of this planet. And because it is so much easier to gain a following it is easier than ever to get money for your idea. Publishers and venture-capitalists don't necessarily care about your idea, they aren't the experts, they care about the plan that you put forward and, in the case of entertainment, the amount of people that are following your idea - This tells them about your ability to make them money.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Hmm, I dunno...there were an awful lot of really terrible scripts to 80s movies (and most of the action movies during that time were pretty terrible. Entertaining in some cases, but not particularly "real".)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I read all the replies, I'm sure there is truth in every one of them. Of course age has a role in my perception, but some younger people have the same feeling as I do.
As i wrote several times in this forum already:
Before, people loved to do something and made money because of it.
Now, people love to make money and do something because of it.
Doesn't mean people didn't want to make money before, of course they did, but they had a passion beyond money that lead their lives and the things they did.
Back in the days, that kind of people had acces to the means to realize their dreams. But now they don't, and another kind of people is being supported.
Before, some people loved to do something and made money because of it, and some simply made it for the money
Now, some people love to make money and do something because of it, and some people love to do something and made money because of it.
Today IMO there is far far more opportunity for people to have access and realize their dreams, far more opportunity to do something you love and make money because of it. Internet and Social Media as essentially leveled the entertainment playing field. A single person in their basement can access just as many people as multi-billion dollar conglomerate entertainment companies. Today indies have more exposure than ever before, and thus can capitalize and market themselves quicker and easier than ever before. Getting media attention and turning that into an advantage is easier than ever before in the known history of this planet. And because it is so much easier to gain a following it is easier than ever to get money for your idea. Publishers and venture-capitalists don't necessarily care about your idea, they aren't the experts, they care about the plan that you put forward and, in the case of entertainment, the amount of people that are following your idea - This tells them about your ability to make them money.
Yes right now indies is my only hope, but we can see them struggling to make an MMO and certainly they can't make any AAA MMO, and similarly in other areas, their scope is limited. Hopefully this will change over time when developement tools get cheaper and better. We are starting to see this already.
Hmm, I dunno...there were an awful lot of really terrible scripts to 80s movies (and most of the action movies during that time were pretty terrible. Entertaining in some cases, but not particularly "real".)
Yep... Rambo II wasn't exactly a labor of love, from what I remember.
OP, I really don't see much of a difference in things now, compared to "then". IMO, or better put, IME, the "old" days always seem better because, as time goes on, the total garbage goes to the dump while the good stuff stays. for example, in music, for every Jimi Hendrix, Led Zep, Waylon Jennings, Aretha Franklin, etc., there were dozens and dozens of horrible pop/country/R&B groups polluting our airwaves. Thing is, being crap, it doesn't stand the test of time and so, it fades into oblivion while the good stuff still lingers.
I think what MAY be happening is that the accessibility of entertainment media is MUCH higher than it was before the days of the interwebz. It used to be that if I didn't want to hear about New Kids on the Block's latest escapades, I simply had to NOT watch Mtv or Friday Night Videos, or buy any of the crappy magazines they were in. But now the latest worthless "sensation" to come around lands on pretty much gets shoved in your face. Or any page displaying news in general. And since it's CONSTANTLY being shoved down our throats, it may seem like the fake junk is more prevelant than it used to be.
It has a great video and good description of the game Journey. With games like Journey being developed, and Heavy Rain, Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption and Skyrim and a whole host of others I don't really see how games could be considered 'fake'. Sure, there's more trash of games, but the game market has broadened its reach wildly and further than10-20 years ago, from facebook games to web games to iPhone games to indie games to blockbuster games, and also into genres that 10-20 years didn't even exist or maybe only in its most rudimentary forms. There's something for everyone.
I feel kinda sorry for the OP if with such an explosion of all kinds of games, he has lost the ability to enjoy most if not all of them.
If the kids of today aren't eased into the fake how will the corporations get them to accept the Augmented Reality existence they are preparing for them?
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
You just need to choose what you consume, the great stuff is still out there, maybe not mainstream Hollywood, but there is a lot of good Indy movies, HBO does some great TV in the US, BBC & Channel 4 are still making great TV drama and comedy, learn to like subtitles (far better than dubbed IMO) and then you have a whole host of fantastic world cinema and TV open up.
Don't consume the crap, don't watch Michael Bay films, turn the TV off if there is nothing GOOD on, play a challenging game you enjoy, read a book, just don't settle for mediocre.
I'm a bit older, and I agree completely. It's all about the SPIN. Doing a good job is no longer required, as long as public opinion is shifted enough that people like the product.
Cr@p on a stick, and a good PR team could sell it by the millions, plus get awards for customer service.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
People losing IQ... It's documented that IQ increases across a developing population with time. It's called the Flynn Effect and it has to do with education and a lot of hypothesized factors.
We all begin to feel this way about things, OP, but we need to be careful. Rationalizing emotions and memory change is dangerous territory and leads to Get Off My Lawn Syndrome. I suggest boiling things down to something that's actually quantifiable, repeatable and measurable, because frankly, you use terms like "Souless" and "It just seems like" and these can't be compared between users. Of course, if you're still trying to conceptualize what the issue is -- keep brain storming. Maybe eventually you'll be able to put it into terms capable of some philosophical discussion that is beneficial to you or others.
While nostalgia plays a big big part in how you feel about the new stuff i do believe there is some truth to the loosing of soul in entertainment. sadly soul and money never go well together.
simply, put people's values have changed.
long gone are the producers that grew up in a post WW2 world in a conservative, hard working, religious, poor society.in is new generation of the super rich, super spoiled and self entitled western society that is soley focused on appearance, individual glory and instant gratification ( in vidoe game that translates to graphcis, easy rewards, and soloability) instead of values and depth of character or co-operation. the same generation that has already crippled the world's economy only to sattisfy it's own limitless greed.
games and movies are only the products of this generation's mentality and desires. greed and the "fast buck" is the order of the day. quality, integrity, vision, depth are drowned by fast, cheap, instantly gratifying and ultimately very disposable.
I think its simply a matter of us having more choices in media compared to what was available before. Especially with the rise of the internet which while around in the 90's didnt really start impacting the daily lives of the average person till around 2000. We have so many choices now compared to before that, while i do believe the ratios are about the same of good vs bad, sometimes it hard not to notice just how much crap there really is now that you have to look through to find the good stuff.
It has also lead to us having a much more disjointed culture due to how little now people may have in common since there are few cultural constants now. Back in the 50's workers who worked at city resevoires overlooking the city water supplies across the country started noticing this phenomenon where at around the same time every day the water levels would suddenly drop at an alarming rate. At first it panicked them until they realized that what was happening was that it was due to the popularity of a single tv show (I love lucy) going to commercial and everyone running to take a bathroom break at the same time so they wouldnt miss anything. Back then choices for entertainment were slim, but most everyone enjoyed i love lucy over the other half dozen options for entertainment (1 good vs 6 bad). It had even created this cultural bond and given many people they would meet something in common with each other.
Fast forward to now and we have thousands of options in tv alone but i think the ratio is likely the same (1 good vs 6 bad) except now we have to look at 6000 shows to find 1000 good ones and given as how we all have limited time to enjoy such things we will never actually get into 1000 shows but marketers will of course be hard at work tossing info of all these shows at us which we will either know already are crap, or even if there good we just dont have time for and dismiss as crap (which of course will tend to alter our view on the good to bad ratio a bit more). So while we may get to find out about all 6000 crappy shows thanks to advertising we will only be able to enjoy maybe 5-15 shows at any given time.
I believe this is also the case with other media as well.
I'm also in my 40's and have a bit of a perspective on the whole "things were better years ago" argument. Now because of certain personal trauma in my life I have been forced to go back and deal with past memories which showed me how much certain times in my life I had perceived as being great and so much better that the present, but after anaylising them closely I saw I was just being nostalgic and that there was just as many bad moments as good, that was really a rude awakening for me that it was hard to deal with at first. I had basically burst my comfortable nostagia bubble and the come down was horrible as all the bad times came flooding back, these depressing feelings are always bubbling under the surface and that is what is driving the nostalgia bubble with the subject reasoning out in the present to protect himself from the trauma and make himself feel better. I'm afraid you have to go back and remember things as they were not how you presently perceive them and only then will you be able to free yourself of your present malaise but beware its not a nice journey.
So as some have mentioned this is a mechanism the psyche uses to protect your sanity basically from overload of trauma, the bad memories are moved to the unconcious mind while the good ones remain in the present and when you remember those times your mind is flooded with endorpins that make you believe it was such a better time then when in reality things were not much different than the present. The problem I have now is that after delving deep into the dark areas of my mind its difficult to look back on the past without dredging up the good and bad but it has allowed me to enjoy the modern world for what it is. Basicall there is good and bad in every area of life but as, I hope, a wiser person I can actually avoid the negative a bit more by being conscious of my actions and be an adult about the consequences, if I'm buying a new game I do some research but I will always know it is still a risk that I might waste my money which helps with the disappointment, this goes for all entertainment products except music as I have a means to try legally nearly all new purchases before I buy them.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
I do believe that the frequency of greed as a motivator has increased overall in our media. EA is a perfect example of a company that seems to only be in the industry for the sake of the money. Somewhere along the road, they stop caring about actually making great games and now they only care about the bottom line.
However, due to the massive expansion of fast communication, accessability and the widespread illegal downloading, people from all social classes are now able to enjoy fine culture if they chose to. Your wallet , to a large extent, does no longer dictate how cultivated you are.
Every person, despite their class and income, can enjoy the work of Kubrick, Hitchcock and Coppola as much as they choose to. As a child and teenager, you are no longer bound by the means of your parents. The only limit is your interest and time.
Classical music is no longer as exclusive as it used to be. Any broke 13-year-old has the opportunity to listen to all great work of every major classical composer whenever they choose to.
As money and class, becomes less and less relevant in this new world, aspects such as your health and happiness become more important. Before, women and men often stayed together in their marriages even if they were actually unhappy due to stigma and economical reasons. Nowadays, we divorce if we are truly unhappy.
We live in a world where every individual can do so much more with their lives compared to what those born in previous generations could. It is a remarkable time to live in and while EA represents everything that is wrong with this new age, the 13-year-old lower-class educated Chopin-loving daughter represents everything that is right.
I want to talk about what I have been experiencing, as many of you, in videogames, but also in other kind of games, in movies, in television and in politics somehow, although I will leave politics aside since it's more complex to debate.
I will soon be 50 years old so I have some perspective on the matter.
See, in the 20th century, in which I had the fortune to live for 38 years, we had good and bad movies, good and bad games, and good and bad TV shows. But they had one thing in common, good and bad. They were real. And by real I mean, they were honest efforts to give the people which consumed them, a good experience. Sometimes they failed, but they were honest.
But suddenly, let's say for simplicity, from the year 2000, there has been a subtle yet sudden change in all those areas. Yes we still have good and bad movies, good and bad games, etc, as always. But something is different. If you look closely, all those products lack something. They are like plastic somehow. Even the very good ones feel different from the masterpieces of before. They lack soul. Of course there are exceptions, but not many. I can't stop having the feeling that they are fake.
I ask myself why is this happening? Is it because the executives nowadays have a say on the final product released to the public? I certainly have read about this happening sometimes. It's because the products are now more expensive and the investors don't want to risk it and resort to simple formulas? or to easier designs that appeal to a less demanding audience? Or it's simply that I got old and don't enjoy the new things as I did when i was 20 or 30?
Whatever the reason, it's really sad to see this happening. I really miss the amazing things we had not so long ago.
Totally not buying this. I'm an older gamer as well, and I can say that the VAST majority of the games that were out when I was younger were utter garbage. And not only garbage, but cheap crappy low budget garbage. Man I can create a list of 100 games off the top of my head which were so bad it is a complete joke that they charged I think $39+ for them at the time. There were a few epic games then, but you really I think forgot how bad many of those games were.
Just like today, there were companies/developers which did interesting things, and other that had no talent, didn't care, and were just in it for a cash grab.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Comments
Just ignore mainstream media in all of its forms. It's part of the key to happiness in today's world
Every aspect of our country is easy mode now, schooling, college, games, TV shows, Movies...All a buch of flashy trash because America's are like little babies, they like bright flashy colors.
Most other countries and developers know this and you can read many articles on it on the internet. We have become a country of children who are extremely narcissistic.
We are a de-evloving society in America with a ton of money we pretend really matters.
Well, talking about MMO's, take in mind that the first ones were created with the words "virtual world" in mind, the first priority was the in game world even before the in game player, that genre is no more, is just dead, in today's market you have just online games that try to appeal to all kind of players no matter what, if that hurts the game itself they just dont care, you can call it soulness or something similar but the fact its that these games are made like the single player ones, i think that even internally the put a have a life span of 3 months on them.
Sorry I still don't think so. Just because there are examples from back in the day of people making things because they really want to entertain people doesn't mean they all were, or even that that was the norm. It just means there were some. Again there were some really bad knockoffs of games/movies/books published only to capitalize on blockbuster. Someone mentioned Ms. Packman and all the packman clones. The zillions of tetris clones are another. Or how about all the killer clown movies and killer doll movies that came out - catching trying to ride the poltergeist or chucky wagon.
Or the movie "the Stuff" A hackneyed knock off of The Blob which itself wasn't good but was mildly entertaining.
The point is that I honestly do not believe there is any more or less (percentage wise) developers out there that are making things just to get money now than there were in the past, or that there there were developers in the past out to really make an entertaining product in there past than there were today.
In the past there ones designed only to make money and there ones that were really trying to entertain. Today there are ones really trying to entertain and ones just trying to make money. Percentagewise I don't think there is a difference.
People in general haven't changed. Businesses in general haven't changed (I'm not talking about tech or processes here) because they are run by the same people.
However your individual perspective may and likley has changed over the years. You are seeing things different than you were 20 years ago.
Ok, I won't say you are not right, but when i was playing EQ i was 40yo, and I was absolutely crazy about it. If I watch again The Twilight Zone, I can't see behind the glamour, I can't see greed, I see an amazing writer showing you his stories which are his life. Compare that to the second edition of TTZ, which was more like we have now, something which ok, it's not bad, but lacks soul. And imagine how would it be now with CGI and brainless productors guiding the project.
So maybe it's both things, age and industry not producing content as interesting as they did.
Sorry I still don't think so. Just because there are examples from back in the day of people making things because they really want to entertain people doesn't mean they all were, or even that that was the norm. It just means there were some. Again there were some really bad knockoffs of games/movies/books published only to capitalize on blockbuster. Someone mentioned Ms. Packman and all the packman clones. The zillions of tetris clones are another. Or how about all the killer clown movies and killer doll movies that came out - catching trying to ride the poltergeist or chucky wagon.
Or the movie "the Stuff" A hackneyed knock off of The Blob which itself wasn't good but was mildly entertaining.
The point is that I honestly do not believe there is any more or less (percentage wise) developers out there that are making things just to get money now than there were in the past, or that there there were developers in the past out to really make an entertaining product in there past than there were today.
In the past there ones designed only to make money and there ones that were really trying to entertain. Today there are ones really trying to entertain and ones just trying to make money. Percentagewise I don't think there is a difference.
In other threads as
People in general haven't changed. Businesses in general haven't changed (I'm not talking about tech or processes here) because they are run by the same people.
However your individual perspective may and likley has changed over the years. You are seeing things different than you were 20 years ago.
Or simply your tastes change as you grow older, what was once exciting now feels shallow and what was once boring now feels rich.New 2000's Battlestar Galactica vs Old 70's Battlestar Galactica proves you wrong OP.
Haha jk, but not really
As with all things in life, truly subjective.
When I compare my first RPG (Dragon Quest 1) to my newest RPG (Mass Effect 3) it makes me LAWL at how far gaming has coming in these short 20+ years.
Well, there indeed IS more ripoff happening nowadays compared to 20 years ago.
Media as an industry has seen extreme growth and a whole lot of people want a piece of that cake, and they will go any length to achieve this.
Just look at browser-based cash-shop games, look at movie adaptions of successful TV shows, novels, heck, even comics, at sequel-mania (everything part 2, 3, 4, 5), look at commercial ads that grow through everything like cancer, i-phone app or f2p game alike...
OP has a point, 20 years ago, although I was 10 back then, people didn't want to nickel and dime you every time you tried to consume 'media' (which was newspaper and TV back then).
M
Oh and as far as MMOs that are being developed with soul:
Wakfu
The Repopulation
Dominus
ArcheAge
Wildstar
Salem
Thats more than your list of old school real mmos. You should check em out.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
It basically comes down to money and ego. Everyone wants fortune and glory instead of making quality products. Shows like American Idol and The Voice are perfect examples of this. Do you think anyone goes on these shows simply because they "love" music? No, they want to be famous multimillionaires. Yes, some can sing well but it lacks soul and feels hollow. Same thing happens with other products, including MMOs.
I read all the replies, I'm sure there is truth in every one of them. Of course age has a role in my perception, but some younger people have the same feeling as I do.
As i wrote several times in this forum already:
Before, people loved to do something and made money because of it.
Now, people love to make money and do something because of it.
Doesn't mean people didn't want to make money before, of course they did, but they had a passion beyond money that lead their lives and the things they did.
Back in the days, that kind of people had acces to the means to realize their dreams. But now they don't, and another kind of people is being supported.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Before, some people loved to do something and made money because of it, and some simply made it for the money
Now, some people love to make money and do something because of it, and some people love to do something and made money because of it.
Today IMO there is far far more opportunity for people to have access and realize their dreams, far more opportunity to do something you love and make money because of it. Internet and Social Media as essentially leveled the entertainment playing field. A single person in their basement can access just as many people as multi-billion dollar conglomerate entertainment companies. Today indies have more exposure than ever before, and thus can capitalize and market themselves quicker and easier than ever before. Getting media attention and turning that into an advantage is easier than ever before in the known history of this planet. And because it is so much easier to gain a following it is easier than ever to get money for your idea. Publishers and venture-capitalists don't necessarily care about your idea, they aren't the experts, they care about the plan that you put forward and, in the case of entertainment, the amount of people that are following your idea - This tells them about your ability to make them money.
Hmm, I dunno...there were an awful lot of really terrible scripts to 80s movies (and most of the action movies during that time were pretty terrible. Entertaining in some cases, but not particularly "real".)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Yes right now indies is my only hope, but we can see them struggling to make an MMO and certainly they can't make any AAA MMO, and similarly in other areas, their scope is limited. Hopefully this will change over time when developement tools get cheaper and better. We are starting to see this already.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Yep... Rambo II wasn't exactly a labor of love, from what I remember.
OP, I really don't see much of a difference in things now, compared to "then". IMO, or better put, IME, the "old" days always seem better because, as time goes on, the total garbage goes to the dump while the good stuff stays. for example, in music, for every Jimi Hendrix, Led Zep, Waylon Jennings, Aretha Franklin, etc., there were dozens and dozens of horrible pop/country/R&B groups polluting our airwaves. Thing is, being crap, it doesn't stand the test of time and so, it fades into oblivion while the good stuff still lingers.
I think what MAY be happening is that the accessibility of entertainment media is MUCH higher than it was before the days of the interwebz. It used to be that if I didn't want to hear about New Kids on the Block's latest escapades, I simply had to NOT watch Mtv or Friday Night Videos, or buy any of the crappy magazines they were in. But now the latest worthless "sensation" to come around lands on pretty much gets shoved in your face. Or any page displaying news in general. And since it's CONSTANTLY being shoved down our throats, it may seem like the fake junk is more prevelant than it used to be.
Just my 3.6 cents (adjusted for inflation).
Check here: Journey game
It has a great video and good description of the game Journey. With games like Journey being developed, and Heavy Rain, Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption and Skyrim and a whole host of others I don't really see how games could be considered 'fake'. Sure, there's more trash of games, but the game market has broadened its reach wildly and further than10-20 years ago, from facebook games to web games to iPhone games to indie games to blockbuster games, and also into genres that 10-20 years didn't even exist or maybe only in its most rudimentary forms. There's something for everyone.
I feel kinda sorry for the OP if with such an explosion of all kinds of games, he has lost the ability to enjoy most if not all of them.
If the kids of today aren't eased into the fake how will the corporations get them to accept the Augmented Reality existence they are preparing for them?
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
^this.
Currently bored with MMO's.
I'm a bit older, and I agree completely. It's all about the SPIN. Doing a good job is no longer required, as long as public opinion is shifted enough that people like the product.
Cr@p on a stick, and a good PR team could sell it by the millions, plus get awards for customer service.
People losing IQ... It's documented that IQ increases across a developing population with time. It's called the Flynn Effect and it has to do with education and a lot of hypothesized factors.
We all begin to feel this way about things, OP, but we need to be careful. Rationalizing emotions and memory change is dangerous territory and leads to Get Off My Lawn Syndrome. I suggest boiling things down to something that's actually quantifiable, repeatable and measurable, because frankly, you use terms like "Souless" and "It just seems like" and these can't be compared between users. Of course, if you're still trying to conceptualize what the issue is -- keep brain storming. Maybe eventually you'll be able to put it into terms capable of some philosophical discussion that is beneficial to you or others.
to OP.
While nostalgia plays a big big part in how you feel about the new stuff i do believe there is some truth to the loosing of soul in entertainment. sadly soul and money never go well together.
simply, put people's values have changed.
long gone are the producers that grew up in a post WW2 world in a conservative, hard working, religious, poor society.in is new generation of the super rich, super spoiled and self entitled western society that is soley focused on appearance, individual glory and instant gratification ( in vidoe game that translates to graphcis, easy rewards, and soloability) instead of values and depth of character or co-operation. the same generation that has already crippled the world's economy only to sattisfy it's own limitless greed.
games and movies are only the products of this generation's mentality and desires. greed and the "fast buck" is the order of the day. quality, integrity, vision, depth are drowned by fast, cheap, instantly gratifying and ultimately very disposable.
I think its simply a matter of us having more choices in media compared to what was available before. Especially with the rise of the internet which while around in the 90's didnt really start impacting the daily lives of the average person till around 2000. We have so many choices now compared to before that, while i do believe the ratios are about the same of good vs bad, sometimes it hard not to notice just how much crap there really is now that you have to look through to find the good stuff.
It has also lead to us having a much more disjointed culture due to how little now people may have in common since there are few cultural constants now. Back in the 50's workers who worked at city resevoires overlooking the city water supplies across the country started noticing this phenomenon where at around the same time every day the water levels would suddenly drop at an alarming rate. At first it panicked them until they realized that what was happening was that it was due to the popularity of a single tv show (I love lucy) going to commercial and everyone running to take a bathroom break at the same time so they wouldnt miss anything. Back then choices for entertainment were slim, but most everyone enjoyed i love lucy over the other half dozen options for entertainment (1 good vs 6 bad). It had even created this cultural bond and given many people they would meet something in common with each other.
Fast forward to now and we have thousands of options in tv alone but i think the ratio is likely the same (1 good vs 6 bad) except now we have to look at 6000 shows to find 1000 good ones and given as how we all have limited time to enjoy such things we will never actually get into 1000 shows but marketers will of course be hard at work tossing info of all these shows at us which we will either know already are crap, or even if there good we just dont have time for and dismiss as crap (which of course will tend to alter our view on the good to bad ratio a bit more). So while we may get to find out about all 6000 crappy shows thanks to advertising we will only be able to enjoy maybe 5-15 shows at any given time.
I believe this is also the case with other media as well.
I'm also in my 40's and have a bit of a perspective on the whole "things were better years ago" argument. Now because of certain personal trauma in my life I have been forced to go back and deal with past memories which showed me how much certain times in my life I had perceived as being great and so much better that the present, but after anaylising them closely I saw I was just being nostalgic and that there was just as many bad moments as good, that was really a rude awakening for me that it was hard to deal with at first. I had basically burst my comfortable nostagia bubble and the come down was horrible as all the bad times came flooding back, these depressing feelings are always bubbling under the surface and that is what is driving the nostalgia bubble with the subject reasoning out in the present to protect himself from the trauma and make himself feel better. I'm afraid you have to go back and remember things as they were not how you presently perceive them and only then will you be able to free yourself of your present malaise but beware its not a nice journey.
So as some have mentioned this is a mechanism the psyche uses to protect your sanity basically from overload of trauma, the bad memories are moved to the unconcious mind while the good ones remain in the present and when you remember those times your mind is flooded with endorpins that make you believe it was such a better time then when in reality things were not much different than the present. The problem I have now is that after delving deep into the dark areas of my mind its difficult to look back on the past without dredging up the good and bad but it has allowed me to enjoy the modern world for what it is. Basicall there is good and bad in every area of life but as, I hope, a wiser person I can actually avoid the negative a bit more by being conscious of my actions and be an adult about the consequences, if I'm buying a new game I do some research but I will always know it is still a risk that I might waste my money which helps with the disappointment, this goes for all entertainment products except music as I have a means to try legally nearly all new purchases before I buy them.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
You got us, OP. Everything in the 21st century is fake - a fabrication. The only REAL things were made before then.
I'm just a fake man working a fake job watching fake movies playing fake games.
I do believe that the frequency of greed as a motivator has increased overall in our media. EA is a perfect example of a company that seems to only be in the industry for the sake of the money. Somewhere along the road, they stop caring about actually making great games and now they only care about the bottom line.
However, due to the massive expansion of fast communication, accessability and the widespread illegal downloading, people from all social classes are now able to enjoy fine culture if they chose to. Your wallet , to a large extent, does no longer dictate how cultivated you are.
Every person, despite their class and income, can enjoy the work of Kubrick, Hitchcock and Coppola as much as they choose to. As a child and teenager, you are no longer bound by the means of your parents. The only limit is your interest and time.
Classical music is no longer as exclusive as it used to be. Any broke 13-year-old has the opportunity to listen to all great work of every major classical composer whenever they choose to.
As money and class, becomes less and less relevant in this new world, aspects such as your health and happiness become more important. Before, women and men often stayed together in their marriages even if they were actually unhappy due to stigma and economical reasons. Nowadays, we divorce if we are truly unhappy.
We live in a world where every individual can do so much more with their lives compared to what those born in previous generations could. It is a remarkable time to live in and while EA represents everything that is wrong with this new age, the 13-year-old lower-class educated Chopin-loving daughter represents everything that is right.
Totally not buying this. I'm an older gamer as well, and I can say that the VAST majority of the games that were out when I was younger were utter garbage. And not only garbage, but cheap crappy low budget garbage. Man I can create a list of 100 games off the top of my head which were so bad it is a complete joke that they charged I think $39+ for them at the time. There were a few epic games then, but you really I think forgot how bad many of those games were.
Just like today, there were companies/developers which did interesting things, and other that had no talent, didn't care, and were just in it for a cash grab.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements