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List of Upcoming MMO's without Pay2Win cash shop?
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I wasn't actually complaining about people having more time to play than me but illustrating the ridiculousness of complaining about these things from the other side of it. Me complaining about a jobless kid's advantage is as stupid as the complaints of those kids about those who can buy some time advantage in the game with real world money.
And when you have raise your kids to the point where they have their own then you can tell me to grow up. I spend my free time doing what I find interesting and I like having the choice to spend a little cash in game so I can play the endgame without having to waste hours and days farming gold and mats for consumables when I could spend those days with my grandkids.
Why exactly are you so set on a game forcing you to spend lots of time to simply participate in it in a normal way, rather than letting people have a choice? there are lots of games like that, go play one rather than demand that every game be marketed directly to you and your preferences.
All die, so die well.
GW2 is showing the most decent cash shop so far. If people still think taht is pay to win then go pay subscriptions for all the AA mmos out there which none are high enough to reach the third A. No need to make a new GW2 pay to win thread. You believe what you want and thats it. have fun paying for crappy games
I know p2w is going to come down to opinion but can people stop bringing up the $60 price tag of Guild Wars 2. World of Warcraft was $50 during release so after two months you have already paid more than you paid for GW2.
LOL which upcoming games? That was the original question of this thread! Which upcoming games don't have this type of cash shop. The fact is, it looks like not many if any. So you win I guess. MMOs are now allowing factors besides skill and effort to determine success. Bad for me, good for you. Congrats...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Vanity items that are clearly purchases is not P2W. For instance, some mount that everybody knows you purchased and didn't earn.
But vanity items that are very hard to obtain in game, such as winning 20 PVP matches in a row or something, if you allow somebody to buy this in cash shop it is pay2win. Because that person can run around pretending he is the fashizzle when he isn't, and you can't prove otherwise.
PVP games are competetive, if you want to pretend otherwise then so be it. I don't think somebody should be allowed to wear the helmet of "I pwned you" without actually pwning you LOL
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Yeah, you have a fair point too. In actuality, I don't think that the CS is going to cause a huge issue with imbalance in WvW...but the possibility is there.
Really, my concern is just that I feel like allowing people to "buy" gold with real money is a bit of a can of worms. Given all the vast amount of things that can be purchased with gold...I just don't see how a player couldn't gain some kind of advantage here. It's almost impossible to talk about without details, but I would be VERY surprised if you couldn't buy some kind of advantage with gold in GW2 just like any other MMORPG. And if you can buy something with gold, you can buy it with real money.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Kind of amusing, GW2 is one of the very very few games that is designed from the ground up to offer a completely level skill based PvP environment, ironice really.
Yes, it was built this way until a few weeks ago, when they changed the philosophy of their cash shop. Very ironic I agree...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
139 replies... Way to take the bait MMORPG.com. You make me proud.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
139 replies, and only about 10 or so trying to answer the original question. The rest were either defending the cash shop concept or piling on with my opinion of not liking them.
To boil down the responses answering my question:
1) Very few upcoming MMOs won't have the pay2win type cash shop. Darkfall 2.0 supposedly won't and Archeage might not
2) A great idea was posted about possibly creating non-cash shop servers that charged a higher subscription rate. I love this idea but no games really do this yet, but my hope is they will someday...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
No, it isn't as stupid. Well maybe it is depending on where you live. I grew up in a society where I had in many ways equal possibilties to compete with those of my age, no matter how poor or wealthy their parents were. I grew up to a gaming culture where the games cost you a one-time fee and where the worst available form of money-grabbing available was "having almost identical sequels". I grew up with the paradigm that once you are inside a game, the only way you can progress is by doings things inside the game.
I had a wonderful childhood and it is saddens me that in a few generations the gaming aspect of it will just be a memory. Much like the opinion that one ought to preserve the nature for future generations, I wish that we preserved the positive aspects of gaming for future generations as well. At least society-wise things are still good.
Day 1 DLCs and beyond-cosmetic item mall in P2P/B2P are not good signs at all.
------
Comment about "participating ": if it was about "letting people have a choice"; they would not charge for those speed-up items. There is a strong reason to believe that they are simply introduced for the sake of the money they can make through them. You should be able to enjoy yourself even if you play few hours, but that doesn't mean that you should be able to skip "boring parts", those boring parts shouldn't be there in the first place.
No worries - forum is for gathering info also
Not sure on Salem , I think I just heard that somewhere. But don't hold me one that.
TSW is P2P WITH Cash shop that's confirmed.
Agree 100% with these points. And when I grew up there wasn't even an internet to get all the answers from either! Thinking, skill, and effort are fast going by the wayside.
Now it is pay for the best stuff, pay to get to max level quicker, google a puzzle answer, google theoretical builds, etc.
I still have hope for the future though, I think many humans have an instinct about fair play and it isn't just a generational thing...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Well, if you actually read the first post you would know GW2 has a pay2win cash shop by MY definition. I was asking for games without the pay2win cash shop by MY definition not your definition.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Winning is subjected.
My belief is if in PVP you have no statical bonus but just look better that is fine. PVE is the part game I will play with my guild who are all friends and family members so if others buy exp/karma boost I am totally ok with it as it won't affect me or my friends.
So I don't think it is p2w
Someone feels paying money to have the same armor that might be awarding for owning in PVP. That is perfectly fine.
Someone wants everyone to always have the same amount of exp gain at all times. That is their opinion and view of p2w.
Could go on forever with examples.
After reading a couple of OPs replys, i can conclude that he assumes that GW2 will have some CS items that give the PvP or W v W advantages, which is not a case. WHOLE ITEM SHOP remained separated from any form of PvP. Wearing "i pwn you" hat is PvP advantage huh? Havent seen those.
Considering W v W, i find some articles of how can Gold impact the courses of battles. The thing is, that prices for influences/boosts/upgrades will be that trivial, so that literally everyone who plays W v W can pay gold for them. Now, the supplies will be main currency that will have point in winning W v W, yet I didnt saw anything that boost them in CS.
I will find link as soon as i can to back this up
Now on topic: you can still wait on TSW, yet i wouldnt hold my breath for that one if i were you...
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
http://wiki.aodb.us/wiki/Funcom_Points
last time i checked AO ,situation was "enough isnt enough for me" pretty much everything is for sale.
TSW will have Funcom points ,but maybe they learned their lesson or maybe not.
Let's internet
I have said it before...it would be so much easier just to go subscription than to go through this crap!! Months ago it was no subscription, I told all my friends that! Now Anet reinvented b2p. I'm a huge fan but just feel let down. Yes I can go without buying gems but now its a major part of the non-subscription game play I will more than likely have to to keep up.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
It all depends on point of your views as subscription. You still have the option to buy a sub-time worthy of gems, if you desire so, but you and the rest need to remember one thing: You are in no way limited to any part of the game content without paying/buying gems. While in sub-based MMORPG you are prohibited from 100% of content if you dont spend that 15$ or whatever the sub price is (or the large part of content in case of F2Pones).
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Here is how a friend made me think about this B2P thing wsith GW2.
There is no subscription fee. So, that 15 bucks a month that would be spent on game? For a month or two, stick it in the cash shop of gw2, and sell your gems. that'll put you on pretty even ground with everyone else's wallet. Then, after you have a nice pile of cash, ignore the cash shop and just play the game. If you want some cosmetics after that, then toss a few bucks to get what you want.
It's STILL cheaper in the long run than paying for a subscription, and you STILL decide WHAT and WHEN you spend your money on.
Hope thaty helps.
TL:DR
Treat it like a subscription game(which you are looking for anyway OP) and you'll never be at a disadvantage
The Deep Web is sca-ry.
Thats a very pragmatic view and I respect it, but a couple issues with that:
1) I'd be pretending a bit and compromising my PVP principles. Yes, I have PVP principles!
2) We don't know the ongoing "non-grindy" gold aquisition rate versus the typical gold-bleeding rate. If the natural gold-bleeding rate is higher than the natural gold-aquisition rate, it will be a long-term advantage to keep paying2win not just the first 2 months. And I'm talking about the confirmed advantages for instance you can get in RvRvR (which to me was the main draw of the game was RvRvR). This is all just too unclear for me to reward them with a box purchase.
3) Anet is already near the bottom of the slippery slope on pay2win and who says they won't go further down the pay2win path after the initial box sales are done. I don't want to reward them with my money for a game philosophy I disagree with...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
They've stated that they are happy with AO and AoC and their microtransactions so I doubt it.
They will start relatively light but will expand constantly CS in TSW that's for sure.