The question for me though is it really true that housing was ever a major priority for mmmorpg's?
Has the clamouring for it from players ever been a truly major factor? The financial impact of not including housing?
Has any game that started without housing and done poorly "saved" itself by adding housing?
How many of those questions are answered (honestly) with "no", even here on the SandboxForum?
No game will save by house because not many titles push a sandbox housing in the first place. It's not really something you can just slap on effectively. It has to be designed from the ground up.
We don't expect all players to want sandbox or player housing. Just like there are a lot of players who are tired of themeparks but that's largely all we get outside of indie games. The Themepark formula is so consistant and down pact that it's almost like playing the same game over and over with different skins and a couple new features. Imagine if single player games had the same feel? It's like WoW is GTA and every other MMORPG is Saints Row, Red Dead Redemption or LA Noire.
You basically have vast majority WoW like theme parks different words and skins, City of Hero type super hero games(I can almost lump Secret World into this as it has the same Funcom CoH's feel), Asian level grinders and WoW clones, low budget indie games and dated origins MMORPGS.
Housing needs to be designed as the social hub. Anything less, and it's not a worthwhile part of otherwise murderhobo gameplay.
Very good point. The housing implementations that failed were ones that drew people away from the social hub rather than amplify the hub or create hubs themselves.
'murderhobo'... I'm going to start using that term.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I miss the DAoC housing. Having my own forge and merchant to sell my wares and leftovers was great. Also house made for a great meeting place. My friends and I all bought homes next to each other and would just hang out at our homes at the end of the night and chat for a bit.
Housing needs to be designed as the social hub. Anything less, and it's not a worthwhile part of otherwise murderhobo gameplay.
Very good point. The housing implementations that failed were ones that drew people away from the social hub rather than amplify the hub or create hubs themselves.
'murderhobo'... I'm going to start using that term.
"Homicide Transient" would be more PC
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Housing needs to be designed as the social hub. Anything less, and it's not a worthwhile part of otherwise murderhobo gameplay.
Very good point. The housing implementations that failed were ones that drew people away from the social hub rather than amplify the hub or create hubs themselves.
'murderhobo'... I'm going to start using that term.
"Homicide Transient" would be more PC
Yeah, open world housing in SWG and UO ruined the "alive and prosperous" feeling of the NPC cities.
Also creates urban sprawl/blight as most of the time the player cities/towns are ghost towns unless there is an event going on (player run.)
Kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't."
Instanced housing just isn't the same...
My idea has been and will always be to do open world housing more like the Fable sRPG's.
All the houses / shops in NPC towns (maybe not all but most) can be bought and customized/upgraded by players.
Given WoW as an example (though a poor one) how cool would it be to buy a house in Ogrimar or Stormwind?
Through a combination of price tag and maintenance/upkeep fees, hundreds if not thousands of available houses for people to buy and invest in, helps keep social hubs as social hubs, helps breathe life into cities and towns, but the biggest hurdle is level ranges in zones.
Who would want to buy a house in a smaller town in a lower level range as a high level player?
It'd work best in a level-less game where people would be invested in the town/city they purchase a home in and make that area their base of operations for their crafting/trade and adventuring.
Much more of a sandbox idea.
But you could also include a limited number of plots of lands out in the wilds players could purchase and turn into villages/towns/cities.
But NPC's would have to also be able to "move in" and "buy property" to increase the size/economy of the player build town/city.
Housing is poorly named, unfortunately, so it's understandable that one going by that name would wonder the value of it.
Player-owned structures is a much more applicable description of the feature. Like you, no one really wants to log into a game and go sit in a house. That's kinda silly and pointless. What many who have interest in player owned structures do want is to build in the game world, impact the game world, and create something with more functionality than just a room to store furniture that you win from completing quests.
From MUDs to the early days of MMOs, housing was never really about housing.
The problem is, housing was really about one of two things:
1. A place to set up a merchant so you could whore your crap 24/7.
2. A place to stage your own personal dickwaving contest and show off.
You've either got "give me money" or "look at me!"
What I see is that housing doesn't add to the game play so it adds nothing to the game but wasted coding. Maybe devs also see that wasted coding is wasted money that can go to important features.
Housing needs to be designed as the social hub. Anything less, and it's not a worthwhile part of otherwise murderhobo gameplay.
Very good point. The housing implementations that failed were ones that drew people away from the social hub rather than amplify the hub or create hubs themselves.
'murderhobo'... I'm going to start using that term.
"Homicide Transient" would be more PC
Yeah, open world housing in SWG and UO ruined the "alive and prosperous" feeling of the NPC cities.
Also creates urban sprawl/blight as most of the time the player cities/towns are ghost towns unless there is an event going on (player run.)
Kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't."
Instanced housing just isn't the same...
My idea has been and will always be to do open world housing more like the Fable sRPG's.
All the houses / shops in NPC towns (maybe not all but most) can be bought and customized/upgraded by players.
Given WoW as an example (though a poor one) how cool would it be to buy a house in Ogrimar or Stormwind?
Through a combination of price tag and maintenance/upkeep fees, hundreds if not thousands of available houses for people to buy and invest in, helps keep social hubs as social hubs, helps breathe life into cities and towns, but the biggest hurdle is level ranges in zones.
Who would want to buy a house in a smaller town in a lower level range as a high level player?
It'd work best in a level-less game where people would be invested in the town/city they purchase a home in and make that area their base of operations for their crafting/trade and adventuring.
Much more of a sandbox idea.
But you could also include a limited number of plots of lands out in the wilds players could purchase and turn into villages/towns/cities.
But NPC's would have to also be able to "move in" and "buy property" to increase the size/economy of the player build town/city.
Be a real sim then.
You often speak truths without the rose tinted glasses on and thanks for that. While SWG had an extremely robust housing system the complaints of the decayed buildings all over the place started almost as soon as the option to place these structures began.
As stated earlier I consider mysef to be an extreme roleplayer so any feature that allows me to immerse myself more so in the game world is a welcome one for me but after having seen how well wow did without it and seeing all the crap started in SWG because of housing I don't blame any dev house that uses the massive amounts of resources needed to pull off a system like this on something else.
One example I can use is TOR, while lots of folks clamoring for housing finds the ship to be a poor excuse for housing I'm fine with it if only they add the ability to display trophies etc..
The only time player housing has been any good in in games like UO, SWG, MO is trying.. Dont get me wrong there was issues like mentioned but they could just put a decay rate on the house so after a certain amount of days with no activity it becomes available for anyone to take.. if its then idle for a fruther 30 days it falls down..
I dont see the point of them in your average themepark game as they dont really have any use at all..
So I have no issues with them no being in Themepark MMOS and I dont think they where ever a priority.
Player housing in a Sandbox game is a must tho just done proper
Player Housing is the ONLY thing that keeps me subscribing to Ultima Online after all these years. I prob won't ever give up my keep until the servers shut down lol. I log in from time to time when there's something new I can get for my house or my vet rewards are up. I just love the customizations with the housing and decorating.
What I see is that housing doesn't add to the game play so it adds nothing to the game but wasted coding. Maybe devs also see that wasted coding is wasted money that can go to important features.
It doesnt add anything to the gameplay for YOU. That doesnt mean it doesnt add to the gameplay for others.
Anything that adds enjoyment for people playing the game is not wasted coding.
Housing is an important feature for some. Just because YOU dont think so doesnt make it so.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
What I see is that housing doesn't add to the game play so it adds nothing to the game but wasted coding. Maybe devs also see that wasted coding is wasted money that can go to important features.
It doesnt add anything to the gameplay for YOU. That doesnt mean it doesnt add to the gameplay for others.
Anything that adds enjoyment for people playing the game is not wasted coding.
Housing is an important feature for some. Just because YOU dont think so doesnt make it so.
Lol I just found myself correcting someone in much the same manner as you here the problem though is one has to consider how many people is this functionality essential too? And honestly how many of these same people aren't going to use housing to get a foothold in the game world and then spend much of the rest of that time complaining about other non sandbox features until they totally bork the game.
as stated i love player housing but it is not an essential function to anyone but the niche sandbox crowd and the best thing a dev can do by catering to them is avoid getting roasted on boards like this one (atleast until launch).
The end result is often I would think the resources needed to make a robust and fun system based on this isn't justified by the numbers. It's like spending five grand to send one kid on a trip to DC while your other four kids starve it's kind of a no brainer.
Because it has never been a priority in any MMO after UO, and in UO it ruined the landscape.
EQ2,LOTRO and Vanguard all have great housing and always get updates with new items,especially EQ2 and LOTRO.Since UO we have also had SWG with great housing.Priority is the wrong word because i new MMO or dev creating a new MMO will always make sure things are working properly,that's to be expected.
Housing usually comes as an expansion if it's going to be in but still get's loads of attenttiononce it's in.
What I see is that housing doesn't add to the game play so it adds nothing to the game but wasted coding. Maybe devs also see that wasted coding is wasted money that can go to important features.
It doesnt add anything to the gameplay for YOU. That doesnt mean it doesnt add to the gameplay for others.
Anything that adds enjoyment for people playing the game is not wasted coding.
Housing is an important feature for some. Just because YOU dont think so doesnt make it so.
I agree,i don't like it so i don't expect anyone else to like it lol.
What I see is that housing doesn't add to the game play so it adds nothing to the game but wasted coding. Maybe devs also see that wasted coding is wasted money that can go to important features.
It doesnt add anything to the gameplay for YOU. That doesnt mean it doesnt add to the gameplay for others.
Anything that adds enjoyment for people playing the game is not wasted coding.
Housing is an important feature for some. Just because YOU dont think so doesnt make it so.
But if it doesn't provide something I value then it is wasted coding...to me.
The priority should be on coding things that we both want.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Housing is an important feature for some. Just because YOU dont think so doesnt make it so.
Housing just isn't that much of a dealbreaker to the majority of people playing any given game. A developer isn't going to pull programmers off of, say, raid content to go develop player housing. The number of people who may not play a game at all because it doesn't have endgame content is much, much, much higher than the number of people who might not play the game if it doesn't have housing.
Just because you want it doesn't necessarily make it fiscally worthwhile to implement.
Housing is an important feature for some. Just because YOU dont think so doesnt make it so.
Housing just isn't that much of a dealbreaker to the majority of people playing any given game. A developer isn't going to pull programmers off of, say, raid content to go develop player housing. The number of people who may not play a game at all because it doesn't have endgame content is much, much, much higher than the number of people who might not play the game if it doesn't have housing.
Just because you want it doesn't necessarily make it fiscally worthwhile to implement.
That is pragmatic. The ROI for housing is not the highest.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
What I see is that housing doesn't add to the game play so it adds nothing to the game but wasted coding. Maybe devs also see that wasted coding is wasted money that can go to important features.
It doesnt add anything to the gameplay for YOU. That doesnt mean it doesnt add to the gameplay for others.
Anything that adds enjoyment for people playing the game is not wasted coding.
Housing is an important feature for some. Just because YOU dont think so doesnt make it so.
But if it doesn't provide something I value then it is wasted coding...to me.
The priority should be on coding things that we both want.
What is your stance on the player-owned structures of EVE? Do you feel that they add significant value to the game even though a good number of the players never use them?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The priority should be on coding things that we both want.
Fair enough, if any game ever was stupid enough to turn control of development over to the player base.
The results? Read other topics on this forum for a week or two.
Still believe design-by-committee can ever end in anything other than disaster? (if so, keep reading)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Player housing is great.. I loved it in SWG and EQ2.. However, I'm a minority in the eyes of the big $$$ gaming devs.. Most of the genre are arcade shoot em up players, meaning they can care less about RPG factors such as faction politics and housing.. All they want to do is kill kill and kill some more.. Crafting has taken a hit and most enconomies are broken.. Fishing anyone? TRUE rpg'ers are being squeezed out of the genre we created.. Isn't that sad!!.. ArchAge anyone?
What I see is that housing doesn't add to the game play so it adds nothing to the game but wasted coding. Maybe devs also see that wasted coding is wasted money that can go to important features.
It doesnt add anything to the gameplay for YOU. That doesnt mean it doesnt add to the gameplay for others.
Anything that adds enjoyment for people playing the game is not wasted coding.
Housing is an important feature for some. Just because YOU dont think so doesnt make it so.
But if it doesn't provide something I value then it is wasted coding...to me.
The priority should be on coding things that we both want.
What is your stance on the player-owned structures of EVE? Do you feel that they add significant value to the game even though a good number of the players never use them?
I don't have any experience with those. Any feature that I do not like is a waste of coding IN GENERAL to me. Might you be able to come up with some convoluted reasoning to make me think otherswise. I just don't think housing is make or break feature for the masses. Yes, there are those oddballs (meaning different from than most) who will find housing to be a deal breaker, but that is a tiny %.
Coding should be prioritized to bring in the maximum return on investment as determined by the powers that be (not forum dwellers). Naturally, if someone wants to make a susie homemaker mmorpg, housing and decorating seems appropriate to that game. I won't be playing it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Just because you want it doesn't necessarily make it fiscally worthwhile to implement.
Vote noted. We'll consider it a clean wash when cancelled out by his vote.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Housing is an important feature for some. Just because YOU dont think so doesnt make it so.
Housing just isn't that much of a dealbreaker to the majority of people playing any given game. A developer isn't going to pull programmers off of, say, raid content to go develop player housing. The number of people who may not play a game at all because it doesn't have endgame content is much, much, much higher than the number of people who might not play the game if it doesn't have housing.
Just because you want it doesn't necessarily make it fiscally worthwhile to implement.
Majority of the players never had it to know one way or another. But then you have the same people crying about the same formula of games being pushed. Just because WoW was successful doesn't mean it's the only way to do.
What direction is there to really go in MMORPG's outside of world building? Do you think MMORPG genre will survive pumping out WoW clone after WoW clone?
Housing is an important feature for some. Just because YOU dont think so doesnt make it so.
Housing just isn't that much of a dealbreaker to the majority of people playing any given game. A developer isn't going to pull programmers off of, say, raid content to go develop player housing. The number of people who may not play a game at all because it doesn't have endgame content is much, much, much higher than the number of people who might not play the game if it doesn't have housing.
Just because you want it doesn't necessarily make it fiscally worthwhile to implement.
That is pragmatic. The ROI for housing is not the highest.
Thats why games have gone the way they have. ROI
The ROI for Sandbox isnt high, so its left out
The ROI of housing isnt high, so its out
The ROI of useful player crafting is on the way out. Loot and Gear Grind is easier
The ROI on a real player economy is null. Easier to RMT
The ROI on any kind of open world or free-form gameplay is out. Easier to do Levels, Classes, Instances
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Do you think MMORPG genre will survive pumping out WoW clone after WoW clone?
Uh oh, here comes the slippery slope...
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
No game will save by house because not many titles push a sandbox housing in the first place. It's not really something you can just slap on effectively. It has to be designed from the ground up.
We don't expect all players to want sandbox or player housing. Just like there are a lot of players who are tired of themeparks but that's largely all we get outside of indie games. The Themepark formula is so consistant and down pact that it's almost like playing the same game over and over with different skins and a couple new features. Imagine if single player games had the same feel? It's like WoW is GTA and every other MMORPG is Saints Row, Red Dead Redemption or LA Noire.
You basically have vast majority WoW like theme parks different words and skins, City of Hero type super hero games(I can almost lump Secret World into this as it has the same Funcom CoH's feel), Asian level grinders and WoW clones, low budget indie games and dated origins MMORPGS.
Very good point. The housing implementations that failed were ones that drew people away from the social hub rather than amplify the hub or create hubs themselves.
'murderhobo'... I'm going to start using that term.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I miss the DAoC housing. Having my own forge and merchant to sell my wares and leftovers was great. Also house made for a great meeting place. My friends and I all bought homes next to each other and would just hang out at our homes at the end of the night and chat for a bit.
"Homicide Transient" would be more PC
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Yeah, open world housing in SWG and UO ruined the "alive and prosperous" feeling of the NPC cities.
Also creates urban sprawl/blight as most of the time the player cities/towns are ghost towns unless there is an event going on (player run.)
Kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't."
Instanced housing just isn't the same...
My idea has been and will always be to do open world housing more like the Fable sRPG's.
All the houses / shops in NPC towns (maybe not all but most) can be bought and customized/upgraded by players.
Given WoW as an example (though a poor one) how cool would it be to buy a house in Ogrimar or Stormwind?
Through a combination of price tag and maintenance/upkeep fees, hundreds if not thousands of available houses for people to buy and invest in, helps keep social hubs as social hubs, helps breathe life into cities and towns, but the biggest hurdle is level ranges in zones.
Who would want to buy a house in a smaller town in a lower level range as a high level player?
It'd work best in a level-less game where people would be invested in the town/city they purchase a home in and make that area their base of operations for their crafting/trade and adventuring.
Much more of a sandbox idea.
But you could also include a limited number of plots of lands out in the wilds players could purchase and turn into villages/towns/cities.
But NPC's would have to also be able to "move in" and "buy property" to increase the size/economy of the player build town/city.
Be a real sim then.
The problem is, housing was really about one of two things:
1. A place to set up a merchant so you could whore your crap 24/7.
2. A place to stage your own personal dickwaving contest and show off.
You've either got "give me money" or "look at me!"
Neither of those interest me in the least.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
What I see is that housing doesn't add to the game play so it adds nothing to the game but wasted coding. Maybe devs also see that wasted coding is wasted money that can go to important features.
You often speak truths without the rose tinted glasses on and thanks for that. While SWG had an extremely robust housing system the complaints of the decayed buildings all over the place started almost as soon as the option to place these structures began.
As stated earlier I consider mysef to be an extreme roleplayer so any feature that allows me to immerse myself more so in the game world is a welcome one for me but after having seen how well wow did without it and seeing all the crap started in SWG because of housing I don't blame any dev house that uses the massive amounts of resources needed to pull off a system like this on something else.
One example I can use is TOR, while lots of folks clamoring for housing finds the ship to be a poor excuse for housing I'm fine with it if only they add the ability to display trophies etc..
The only time player housing has been any good in in games like UO, SWG, MO is trying.. Dont get me wrong there was issues like mentioned but they could just put a decay rate on the house so after a certain amount of days with no activity it becomes available for anyone to take.. if its then idle for a fruther 30 days it falls down..
I dont see the point of them in your average themepark game as they dont really have any use at all..
So I have no issues with them no being in Themepark MMOS and I dont think they where ever a priority.
Player housing in a Sandbox game is a must tho
just done proper 
Player Housing is the ONLY thing that keeps me subscribing to Ultima Online after all these years. I prob won't ever give up my keep until the servers shut down lol. I log in from time to time when there's something new I can get for my house or my vet rewards are up. I just love the customizations with the housing and decorating.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
It doesnt add anything to the gameplay for YOU. That doesnt mean it doesnt add to the gameplay for others.
Anything that adds enjoyment for people playing the game is not wasted coding.
Housing is an important feature for some. Just because YOU dont think so doesnt make it so.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Lol I just found myself correcting someone in much the same manner as you here the problem though is one has to consider how many people is this functionality essential too? And honestly how many of these same people aren't going to use housing to get a foothold in the game world and then spend much of the rest of that time complaining about other non sandbox features until they totally bork the game.
as stated i love player housing but it is not an essential function to anyone but the niche sandbox crowd and the best thing a dev can do by catering to them is avoid getting roasted on boards like this one (atleast until launch).
The end result is often I would think the resources needed to make a robust and fun system based on this isn't justified by the numbers. It's like spending five grand to send one kid on a trip to DC while your other four kids starve it's kind of a no brainer.
EQ2,LOTRO and Vanguard all have great housing and always get updates with new items,especially EQ2 and LOTRO.Since UO we have also had SWG with great housing.Priority is the wrong word because i new MMO or dev creating a new MMO will always make sure things are working properly,that's to be expected.
Housing usually comes as an expansion if it's going to be in but still get's loads of attenttiononce it's in.
I agree,i don't like it so i don't expect anyone else to like it lol.
But if it doesn't provide something I value then it is wasted coding...to me.
The priority should be on coding things that we both want.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Housing just isn't that much of a dealbreaker to the majority of people playing any given game. A developer isn't going to pull programmers off of, say, raid content to go develop player housing. The number of people who may not play a game at all because it doesn't have endgame content is much, much, much higher than the number of people who might not play the game if it doesn't have housing.
Just because you want it doesn't necessarily make it fiscally worthwhile to implement.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
That is pragmatic. The ROI for housing is not the highest.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
What is your stance on the player-owned structures of EVE? Do you feel that they add significant value to the game even though a good number of the players never use them?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Fair enough, if any game ever was stupid enough to turn control of development over to the player base.
The results? Read other topics on this forum for a week or two.
Still believe design-by-committee can ever end in anything other than disaster? (if so, keep reading)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Player housing is great.. I loved it in SWG and EQ2.. However, I'm a minority in the eyes of the big $$$ gaming devs.. Most of the genre are arcade shoot em up players, meaning they can care less about RPG factors such as faction politics and housing.. All they want to do is kill kill and kill some more.. Crafting has taken a hit and most enconomies are broken.. Fishing anyone? TRUE rpg'ers are being squeezed out of the genre we created.. Isn't that sad!!.. ArchAge anyone?
I don't have any experience with those. Any feature that I do not like is a waste of coding IN GENERAL to me. Might you be able to come up with some convoluted reasoning to make me think otherswise. I just don't think housing is make or break feature for the masses. Yes, there are those oddballs (meaning different from than most) who will find housing to be a deal breaker, but that is a tiny %.
Coding should be prioritized to bring in the maximum return on investment as determined by the powers that be (not forum dwellers). Naturally, if someone wants to make a susie homemaker mmorpg, housing and decorating seems appropriate to that game. I won't be playing it.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Vote noted. We'll consider it a clean wash when cancelled out by his vote.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Majority of the players never had it to know one way or another. But then you have the same people crying about the same formula of games being pushed. Just because WoW was successful doesn't mean it's the only way to do.
What direction is there to really go in MMORPG's outside of world building? Do you think MMORPG genre will survive pumping out WoW clone after WoW clone?
Thats why games have gone the way they have. ROI
The ROI for Sandbox isnt high, so its left out
The ROI of housing isnt high, so its out
The ROI of useful player crafting is on the way out. Loot and Gear Grind is easier
The ROI on a real player economy is null. Easier to RMT
The ROI on any kind of open world or free-form gameplay is out. Easier to do Levels, Classes, Instances
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Uh oh, here comes the slippery slope...
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.