For you it is always the gamer who is wrong, never the game. I find that point of view hilarious. WE are the customers who pay. Sorry, ktanner, I followed your replies a long time now, and EVERY time you disagree you ridicule people. Stop that. It doesn't make you look cool, it just makes you appear a company shill. Which you probably are, since this is EXACTLY the sort of ridiculing critics you ALWAYS do, espcially towards EA based games.
Different people love different things, and a MMO is well advised to cater several different personal prefferences and not only one. The poster rightfully pointed to that, and you have no ground to ridicule him for that observation.
So it's either mean attitude towards different opinions or paid trolling. Oh and making it RED only makes you more trollish.
ktanner is one of the more reasonable posters around here even if you differ on opinion.
I should know. Him and I only differed on about a billion different things in relation to SWTOR.
...and I really don't see any ridicule or trollish behavior in his comment.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
This is the only reason I didn't even buy this game. MMOs are centered around combat and fighting your way through the levels. So combat has be to good for an MMO to be good. This game has some of the worst combat I've ever seen. The Decks and skill wheel is just plain complicated, and could've been the same but so much better organized and simpler (layout wise). I played the beta, and I just found myself mashing 111111111111211111111111121111111112 the entire time. The animations for such a great looking game are also horrible. They're more scary than the zombies and draugr lol, (which are the same monster you fight from level 1 to who knows whatever level (at least 18, that I know of), they all have the same moves and act almost the same). This game, like AoC, has potential, but the combat is just plain horrible and holding it back.
This is the only reason I didn't even buy this game. MMOs are centered around combat and fighting your way through the levels. So combat has be to good for an MMO to be good. This game has some of the worst combat I've ever seen. The Decks and skill wheel is just plain complicated, and could've been the same but so much better organized and simpler (layout wise). I played the beta, and I just found myself mashing 111111111111211111111111121111111112 the entire time. The animations for such a great looking game are also horrible. They're more scary than the zombies and draugr lol, (which are the same monster you fight from level 1 to who knows whatever level (at least 18, that I know of), they all have the same moves and act almost the same). This game, like AoC, has potential, but the combat is just plain horrible and holding it back.
TSW doesn't have levels. The whole at least 18 thing I have no idea what you're referring to or how you would know something that doesn't exist. As for the combo builders, the game steps up considerably as the game progresses. Many players are failing to adapt and now are asking for content to be nerfed because they can't be bothered to switch out of their 111112111112 build that you suggest. If people keep thinking that's all the combat is in this game, they will not do well at all.
i can actually kinda agree with the op and i still play the game. The skill wheel itself is poorly done and thought out. When i can buy a basic ability that say does 170 damage and a leech effect and then later on for say 34 pts i can buy one just like it but with less leech and less damage thats just poor slap dash programming on their end. The game does hit a rut when you get past savage coast and there is tons of players on the offical forums that agree. The argument is leave it hard funcom screw the whiners, well guess what the few elites here soon wont have anyone to play with.
Combat gets beyond tedious once you leave savage coast because it goes from a fun action game to a take 45 seconds to kill 1 mob spamming the same two or three skills per kill. That makes combat come to a crawl and it gets worse in egypt when every mob besides the human cultists have mechanics that make you dodge on top of already having 10k health. Thats just not fun its tedious . I am currently faction rank 9 and have the skill wheel 42% complete with many builds in 4 weapons and many passives and the game just sucks when you get further towards end game. Mobs shouldnt take over 1 min each to kill when you have to kill 100s its boring and slow .
I like a challange but making a mob have mechanics you have to think to kill or be killed is the way to go not just stacking up mobs health to 12-14k each on stupid zombies or bugs its pointless and stupid. This game hits home just like tortage did in AOC but like AOC once you get away from the first couple of zones it gets boring and repetitive with very poorly designed combat and abilites.
edit- also enjoy being stuck in a leech build to play for the rest of the game past the savage coast as thats the only way to survive.
If you can't kill mobs fast enough solo... why not teaming? Both are viable, teaming is much faster and can be much more fun, too.
And actually complaining about having to dodge in combat just sounds like you want to simply stand in front of a mob press a couple buttons and kill it with no effort.
Grab a friend or two and you'll kill those mobs faster than you did the ones in SC solo.
Several of the complaints are quite contradictory.
I'd like to also add that i normally play my damage built, based on crtis, with no leach and under 3k HP while soloing, and i've been able to solo quite effectively in Egypt. Things die reasonably fast, and i only die if i become careless or get jumped by unexpected adds.
I have wanted to love this game, but I can't. It's just tedious. The combat is a horrible button mash fest. Everything else is stellar. The atmosphere is perfect, the quests are fine. But the combat is atrocious. AOC was sooo much better in this area. I've gone back to lotro and won't be renewing my sub. I appreciate TSW and what it's trying to be, but I don't have the time or patience for it. Instead of getting better, things just get worse as you progress. Crafting is a pain in the ass instead of something to look forward to. It seems like tedium and repetition are the games replacement for leveling up due to lack of content. Otherwise, a small area takes forever due to really slow advancement and the intention of keeping players in one area as long as possible. On top of that, there is very little reference to secret societies and all that. TOTALLY dissappointed...
Honestly, and I say this with no intent to insult or denigrate, but your entire post boils down to "This is too different", and being different to me is why TSW is probably the best MMO released since Everquest (because no, I never did and never will take WoW seriously in spite of its insane legion of fans).
The combat is no better than any other MMO out there, but it's no worse.
You spend a lot of time in those areas because there's a lot to do; you can't just speed click thru 30 quests windows then run off and complete them all in one shot, because these require thought and patience and thought and thought. I've got almost 40 hours played and I'm still running aorund discovering quests in Kingsmouth.
Lack of content? I don't see it. Seriously. I can't understand how someone can say that, but hey...to each his own.
no im complaining about mobs health and obviously you havent been to far into the game because i group up all the time with guildies. You can try to make it sound as good as you want to but mechanics suck for basing praise around action combat. There is no action its a snoozefest . Mob health doesnt make mobs harder it makes stuff longer to kill and there is tons of chat spam in the game that is just as annoyed as i am. But all the complaining is a minority i guess , we will see in a couple of months....
no im complaining about mobs health and obviously you havent been to far into the game because i group up all the time with guildies. You can try to make it sound as good as you want to but mechanics suck for basing praise around action combat. There is no action its a snoozefest . Mob health doesnt make mobs harder it makes stuff longer to kill and there is tons of chat spam in the game that is just as annoyed as i am. But all the complaining is a minority i guess , we will see in a couple of months....
I'm in Egypt in live, went farther in CB, i like soloing a lot, i enjoy grouping too. I don't depend on leeching to keep going, i have a leech build that is quite fun, but my main one is chaos/pistol one. That's what i use the most.
your complaint specifically talk about mobs taking long to kill (which teaming or having more damage solves) and it being an issue after SC (which i'm way past from) so can dispute your assertion base don my personal experiences.
Combat is pretty standard for MMO's and better than most. Some other MMOs have better combat, too.
no im complaining about mobs health and obviously you havent been to far into the game because i group up all the time with guildies. You can try to make it sound as good as you want to but mechanics suck for basing praise around action combat. There is no action its a snoozefest . Mob health doesnt make mobs harder it makes stuff longer to kill and there is tons of chat spam in the game that is just as annoyed as i am. But all the complaining is a minority i guess , we will see in a couple of months....
What are you talking about? If you actually have gotten far in the game, you would know that mobs do have other mechanics. They call for help. They have states (buffs) on them if you glance or throw affliction on them. They have abilities if they crit you, they debuff you. They have abilities you need to interrupt. They have abilities you need to avoid. What else could you want from a challenge? It's not even close to mobs just have more health. Not even close. This isn't opinion. It's a fact.
Are we playing the same game? Because I have finished every zone, and have also tanked and killed every boss except the Machine Tyrant in the last nightmare dungeon. I have changed my build a total of one time for PvE, and that was because I needed one more stun to kill the Gatekeeper to unlock nightmare. I did 99.99% of the PvE content with the same build and didn't change my abilities once. Breezed through it, too. Likewise, I've also tanked all the dungeons from normal to nightmare with the same build.
I did all of this with a total of 3 spammy attacks, 2 when I'm tanking. At least DCUO had combos to make things a little more engaging. Also, whoever compared the combat in TSW to GW2 is either crazy or hasn't played GW2 much. While you can only have 10 abilities in your hotbar (plus profession abilities) at any time, most classes can switch weapons or attunements in combat, meaning each profession has access to anywhere from 20-40 different abilities during combat.
If you want to limit my abilties to console standards, GW2 is an example of how to do it right.
3 spammy attacks and 2 when you're tanking? so what two builds or 5 abilities out of seven you use? Oh and you DPS with your tank spec? That must be....interesting. Wonder how you beat Boogey Man or Ankenetan. How did Rogue Agent treat ya?
You must of been really great against the computer in Facility where everyone needs to go DPS. Didn't change your abilities once? BS
Okay give me your seven abilities. I would really like to see this. Oh and list your passives too. Ya know, cause those matter too.
I to thought the combat was simple and boring and was about to let my free 30 burn out. But then i decided to try shotgun(last weapon i hadnt tried) and as i was lalalaing thru the quests I notice something about the skill system. Theres more to it than just picking whichever one has the highest damage number. As a Grifter My fav combo for tough mobs right now (not sure on skill names)
sawed off a few times to give the mob weakness then an elemental elite that roots em and makes em hindered. Then i use this one shotgun ability that has okay damage and cast time but has a good bang if the target is hindered. When he breaks then i will have enough for thors hammer, if he still wants more this one shotgun ability that has a long a$$ cast time but does alot of damage if u have all 5 shotgun rescources. And for my finisher theres this one shotgun ability that always does decent damage but clears ur shotgun resource.
So 117222643
Now its different for weak mobs and groups of mobs.
Now in most mmos I mostly just spam the highest hitting ability and when its on cooldown spam the next highest one and so forth, never found a reason to debuff or cc in pve unless i was a glass cannon class and even then just cc.
So far non of my skills hit that hard unless they take alot of resources or the enemy is under some status effect or range.
I just got into savage coast and started on the outer wheel. And while I always thought i would use sawed off and its passive to cause weakness im thinking of changing what i thought would be set till endgame.
I havnt played Tera (other than that cr@9y demo they have) but compared to LOTOR and even swtor(lotor2) the combat in TSW is far more complex and challenging. Ofcourse you can be like most players i see runing around and spaming the same ability and stand there getting hit by a mob's special.
Are we playing the same game? Because I have finished every zone, and have also tanked and killed every boss except the Machine Tyrant in the last nightmare dungeon. I have changed my build a total of one time for PvE, and that was because I needed one more stun to kill the Gatekeeper to unlock nightmare. I did 99.99% of the PvE content with the same build and didn't change my abilities once. Breezed through it, too. Likewise, I've also tanked all the dungeons from normal to nightmare with the same build.
I did all of this with a total of 3 spammy attacks, 2 when I'm tanking. At least DCUO had combos to make things a little more engaging. Also, whoever compared the combat in TSW to GW2 is either crazy or hasn't played GW2 much. While you can only have 10 abilities in your hotbar (plus profession abilities) at any time, most classes can switch weapons or attunements in combat, meaning each profession has access to anywhere from 20-40 different abilities during combat.
If you want to limit my abilties to console standards, GW2 is an example of how to do it right.
3 spammy attacks and 2 when you're tanking? so what two builds or 5 abilities out of seven you use? Oh and you DPS with your tank spec? That must be....interesting. Wonder how you beat Boogey Man or Ankenetan. How did Rogue Agent treat ya?
You must of been really great against the computer in Facility where everyone needs to go DPS. Didn't change your abilities once? BS
Okay give me your seven abilities. I would really like to see this. Oh and list your passives too. Ya know, cause those matter too.
Like I said, I did all the PvE content, including those fights you mentioned with the same build. Here it is:
I never said I used the same build I leveled/PvE with for Nightmare tanking. I use a slightly modified version of the above build, switching hammer for Chaos and dropping one of the attacks.
The only encounter where I had to change my PvE build was against the Gatekeeper. Everything else was a breeze.
Are we playing the same game? Because I have finished every zone, and have also tanked and killed every boss except the Machine Tyrant in the last nightmare dungeon. I have changed my build a total of one time for PvE, and that was because I needed one more stun to kill the Gatekeeper to unlock nightmare. I did 99.99% of the PvE content with the same build and didn't change my abilities once. Breezed through it, too. Likewise, I've also tanked all the dungeons from normal to nightmare with the same build.
I did all of this with a total of 3 spammy attacks, 2 when I'm tanking. At least DCUO had combos to make things a little more engaging. Also, whoever compared the combat in TSW to GW2 is either crazy or hasn't played GW2 much. While you can only have 10 abilities in your hotbar (plus profession abilities) at any time, most classes can switch weapons or attunements in combat, meaning each profession has access to anywhere from 20-40 different abilities during combat.
If you want to limit my abilties to console standards, GW2 is an example of how to do it right.
3 spammy attacks and 2 when you're tanking? so what two builds or 5 abilities out of seven you use? Oh and you DPS with your tank spec? That must be....interesting. Wonder how you beat Boogey Man or Ankenetan. How did Rogue Agent treat ya?
You must of been really great against the computer in Facility where everyone needs to go DPS. Didn't change your abilities once? BS
Okay give me your seven abilities. I would really like to see this. Oh and list your passives too. Ya know, cause those matter too.
Like I said, I did all the PvE content, including those fights you mentioned with the same build. Here it is:
I never said I used the same build I leveled/PvE with for Nightmare tanking. I use a slightly modified version of the above build, switching hammer for Chaos and dropping one of the attacks.
The only encounter where I had to change my PvE build was against the Gatekeeper. Everything else was a breeze.
so its the games fault you chose to ignore all but 13 skills and stick with a boring combat setup?
so its the games fault you chose to ignore all but 13 skills and stick with a boring combat setup?
Umm, yeah... How's it not?
I'm not being sarcastic. Being able to get away with relying on only a few abilities and mostly just spamming resource builder and consumers over and over again in Carpal Tunnel inducing sequences IS the fault of the game. If combat was designed better from the ground up to not be so spammy it would be a lot better.
Are we playing the same game? Because I have finished every zone, and have also tanked and killed every boss except the Machine Tyrant in the last nightmare dungeon. I have changed my build a total of one time for PvE, and that was because I needed one more stun to kill the Gatekeeper to unlock nightmare. I did 99.99% of the PvE content with the same build and didn't change my abilities once. Breezed through it, too. Likewise, I've also tanked all the dungeons from normal to nightmare with the same build.
I did all of this with a total of 3 spammy attacks, 2 when I'm tanking. At least DCUO had combos to make things a little more engaging. Also, whoever compared the combat in TSW to GW2 is either crazy or hasn't played GW2 much. While you can only have 10 abilities in your hotbar (plus profession abilities) at any time, most classes can switch weapons or attunements in combat, meaning each profession has access to anywhere from 20-40 different abilities during combat.
If you want to limit my abilties to console standards, GW2 is an example of how to do it right.
3 spammy attacks and 2 when you're tanking? so what two builds or 5 abilities out of seven you use? Oh and you DPS with your tank spec? That must be....interesting. Wonder how you beat Boogey Man or Ankenetan. How did Rogue Agent treat ya?
You must of been really great against the computer in Facility where everyone needs to go DPS. Didn't change your abilities once? BS
Okay give me your seven abilities. I would really like to see this. Oh and list your passives too. Ya know, cause those matter too.
Like I said, I did all the PvE content, including those fights you mentioned with the same build. Here it is:
I never said I used the same build I leveled/PvE with for Nightmare tanking. I use a slightly modified version of the above build, switching hammer for Chaos and dropping one of the attacks.
The only encounter where I had to change my PvE build was against the Gatekeeper. Everything else was a breeze.
so its the games fault you chose to ignore all but 13 skills and stick with a boring combat setup?
I use what works best.
Here's a video of a tank clearing a nightmare dungeon. I use a very similar spec (I actually only use 1 AoE, he has 2). You'll see his rotation consists of 1111111111111 with the ocasion 2 and 3 thrown in. Why do we use rotations like this? Because it works.
Despite all of the lofty claims that "combat in TSW requires more effort than appeals to the mainstream", I honestly found it too painfully simple and easy in addition to clunky. Either my stats were high enough to faceroll or they weren't. Since most of the skills are essentially copies of one another, during beta I never once felt like any strategy or real thought was required. Especially since I could just slap on a deck, follow the instructions, and faceroll even more lazily.
The combat is just clunky, it's not a skill cap issue. Even the fans, or people who are interested like myself, admit this.
While you are all right to complain of players who blame the game for their own faults, OP never stated just what he dislikes about the combat. There's a ridiculous amount of assumptions going on in this thread. I could just as easily say, "If you're not enjoying the game, it's the players fault instead of the designers for not designing a playable game" to mock you all. But that's not very discussion-worthy, frankly, and we can all do better than that.
Agree 100%.
Not sure why everyone is trying to white knight the combat system. It needs serious work. Pretending everything is fine will not fix the game.
Are we playing the same game? Because I have finished every zone, and have also tanked and killed every boss except the Machine Tyrant in the last nightmare dungeon. I have changed my build a total of one time for PvE, and that was because I needed one more stun to kill the Gatekeeper to unlock nightmare. I did 99.99% of the PvE content with the same build and didn't change my abilities once. Breezed through it, too. Likewise, I've also tanked all the dungeons from normal to nightmare with the same build.
I did all of this with a total of 3 spammy attacks, 2 when I'm tanking. At least DCUO had combos to make things a little more engaging. Also, whoever compared the combat in TSW to GW2 is either crazy or hasn't played GW2 much. While you can only have 10 abilities in your hotbar (plus profession abilities) at any time, most classes can switch weapons or attunements in combat, meaning each profession has access to anywhere from 20-40 different abilities during combat.
If you want to limit my abilties to console standards, GW2 is an example of how to do it right.
3 spammy attacks and 2 when you're tanking? so what two builds or 5 abilities out of seven you use? Oh and you DPS with your tank spec? That must be....interesting. Wonder how you beat Boogey Man or Ankenetan. How did Rogue Agent treat ya?
You must of been really great against the computer in Facility where everyone needs to go DPS. Didn't change your abilities once? BS
Okay give me your seven abilities. I would really like to see this. Oh and list your passives too. Ya know, cause those matter too.
Like I said, I did all the PvE content, including those fights you mentioned with the same build. Here it is:
I never said I used the same build I leveled/PvE with for Nightmare tanking. I use a slightly modified version of the above build, switching hammer for Chaos and dropping one of the attacks.
The only encounter where I had to change my PvE build was against the Gatekeeper. Everything else was a breeze.
What you're saying doesn't even make sense. You say that you didn't have to switch your build, then you say you switched your build for chaos. And you did say that you used the same build for Nightmare tanking. I mean read what you wrote. Based on the previous you picked 7 abilities active and 7 passive and you didn't change anything for any PvE. The only exception being the Gatekeeper. Your statements are full of contradictions. And that build? While being able to survive with some good heals, leaves you vulnerable to certain mobs - namely shield, magic damage affliction and burst DPS.
But by your own admission, you did have to change your builds based on your encounters and you don't use one build 99.99999% of the time as you would have others believe.
edit- now if what you call 'builds' is weapon combinations, then you're probably right. All weapon combinations should be viable for all content. This is by design. The abilities you use within the weapon combos is the key.
so its the games fault you chose to ignore all but 13 skills and stick with a boring combat setup?
Umm, yeah... How's it not?
I'm not being sarcastic. Being able to get away with relying on only a few abilities and mostly just spamming resource builder and consumers over and over again in Carpal Tunnel inducing sequences IS the fault of the game. If combat was designed better from the ground up to not be so spammy it would be a lot better.
Actually if he choses to ignore all the rest of the abilities in game, it's his own decision, not the game's.
you cna even reduce the amount of clicks you have to do per minute if, for instance, use focused attacks that take from 1.5 to 5 seconds to complete.
You could probably do mostly the same on any combat system, from start to end using a very limited set of powers and attacks, and it would still be your decision.
He basically decided to bore himself with the same stuff instead of testing and trying other specs. And if he says there would be no difference, i, that don't falme or fight in forums, would call bullshit, cause he could approach DPS along a set of different types of attack types, add utilities that could help his groups (and also soloing) and adjust for several different effects. All of which make a lot o a difference in terms of game play.
so its the games fault you chose to ignore all but 13 skills and stick with a boring combat setup?
Umm, yeah... How's it not?
I'm not being sarcastic. Being able to get away with relying on only a few abilities and mostly just spamming resource builder and consumers over and over again in Carpal Tunnel inducing sequences IS the fault of the game. If combat was designed better from the ground up to not be so spammy it would be a lot better.
Actually if he choses to ignore all the rest of the abilities in game, it's his own decision, not the game's.
you cna even reduce the amount of clicks you have to do per minute if, for instance, use focused attacks that take from 1.5 to 5 seconds to complete.
You could probably do mostly the same on any combat system, from start to end using a very limited set of powers and attacks, and it would still be your decision.
He basically decided to bore himself with the same stuff instead of testing and trying other specs. And if he says there would be no difference, i, that don't falme or fight in forums, would call bullshit, cause he could approach DPS along a set of different types of attack types, add utilities that could help his groups (and also soloing) and adjust for several different effects. All of which make a lot o a difference in terms of game play.
Well ive found a lot of fun combat builds that dont have spammy aspects to them. I can understand someone being afraid to dabble in other builds and it does take time to get one that feels right.
Combat is a good as your build is in this game, if your complaining combat is too spammy or boring then change it up...dont stick with it and refuse to change it because it simply works...thats retarded in a game that gives you complete control over your build role and skills used.
I can understand combat complaints while your fresh in kingsmouth, you dont have a lot of options and most the inner circle skills operate in the same manner, once you get out of kingsmouth its really up to you if you want a fun build or a build that just works.
But what I don't get is how difficult it is to understand that the reason why most people don't like TSW combat has nothing to do with the wrong choice of skill sets, but more about the whole mechanic of the system.
The combat system in TSW is very basic, I would say striped to the bone.
There is nothing exciting about.
You choose you skill set, you start spamming the same rotation all over and that's all.
Wanna see a grood combat system?............Just look at AoC, it might not be everyone cup of tea, but it was different, and personally I liked it.
And guess who made AoC?
Exactly, Funcom.
How they could get TSW combat so wrong when combat in AoC was probably the best part of the game is beyond my comprehension.
I guess this rappresent a metaphor for the whole MMO industry which is going backward rather than going forward.
But what I don't get is how difficult it is to understand that the reason why most people don't like TSW combat has nothing to do with the wrong choice of skill sets, but more about the whole mechanic of the system.
The combat system in TSW is very basic, I would say striped to the bone.
There is nothing exciting about.
You choose you skill set, you start spamming the same rotation all over and that's all.
Wanna see a grood combat system?............Just look at AoC, it might not be everyone cup of tea, but it was different, and personally I liked it.
And guess who made AoC?
Exactly, Funcom.
How they could get TSW combat so wrong when combat in AoC was probably the best part of the game is beyond my comprehension.
I guess this rappresent a metaphor for the whole MMO industry which is going backward rather than going forward.
Its the mechanics and how it feels/looks. The skill wheel itself is pretty cool.
Are we playing the same game? Because I have finished every zone, and have also tanked and killed every boss except the Machine Tyrant in the last nightmare dungeon. I have changed my build a total of one time for PvE, and that was because I needed one more stun to kill the Gatekeeper to unlock nightmare. I did 99.99% of the PvE content with the same build and didn't change my abilities once. Breezed through it, too. Likewise, I've also tanked all the dungeons from normal to nightmare with the same build.
I did all of this with a total of 3 spammy attacks, 2 when I'm tanking. At least DCUO had combos to make things a little more engaging. Also, whoever compared the combat in TSW to GW2 is either crazy or hasn't played GW2 much. While you can only have 10 abilities in your hotbar (plus profession abilities) at any time, most classes can switch weapons or attunements in combat, meaning each profession has access to anywhere from 20-40 different abilities during combat.
If you want to limit my abilties to console standards, GW2 is an example of how to do it right.
3 spammy attacks and 2 when you're tanking? so what two builds or 5 abilities out of seven you use? Oh and you DPS with your tank spec? That must be....interesting. Wonder how you beat Boogey Man or Ankenetan. How did Rogue Agent treat ya?
You must of been really great against the computer in Facility where everyone needs to go DPS. Didn't change your abilities once? BS
Okay give me your seven abilities. I would really like to see this. Oh and list your passives too. Ya know, cause those matter too.
Like I said, I did all the PvE content, including those fights you mentioned with the same build. Here it is:
I never said I used the same build I leveled/PvE with for Nightmare tanking. I use a slightly modified version of the above build, switching hammer for Chaos and dropping one of the attacks.
The only encounter where I had to change my PvE build was against the Gatekeeper. Everything else was a breeze.
What you're saying doesn't even make sense. You say that you didn't have to switch your build, then you say you switched your build for chaos. And you did say that you used the same build for Nightmare tanking. I mean read what you wrote. Based on the previous you picked 7 abilities active and 7 passive and you didn't change anything for any PvE. The only exception being the Gatekeeper. Your statements are full of contradictions. And that build? While being able to survive with some good heals, leaves you vulnerable to certain mobs - namely shield, magic damage affliction and burst DPS.
But by your own admission, you did have to change your builds based on your encounters and you don't use one build 99.99999% of the time as you would have others believe.
edit- now if what you call 'builds' is weapon combinations, then you're probably right. All weapon combinations should be viable for all content. This is by design. The abilities you use within the weapon combos is the key.
I honestly don't understand why you're getting all confused. My post was pretty clear. I used the build I mentioned to level through all the content (PvE) spamming the same 3 abilities. I only had to switch one ability to fight the Gatekeeper.
Obviously I don't use the same build I leveled with to tank nightmare dungeons. I use a different build where I spam 2 abilities.
But what I don't get is how difficult it is to understand that the reason why most people don't like TSW combat has nothing to do with the wrong choice of skill sets, but more about the whole mechanic of the system.
The combat system in TSW is very basic, I would say striped to the bone.
There is nothing exciting about.
You choose you skill set, you start spamming the same rotation all over and that's all.
Wanna see a grood combat system?............Just look at AoC, it might not be everyone cup of tea, but it was different, and personally I liked it.
And guess who made AoC?
Exactly, Funcom.
How they could get TSW combat so wrong when combat in AoC was probably the best part of the game is beyond my comprehension.
I guess this rappresent a metaphor for the whole MMO industry which is going backward rather than going forward.
How exactly is it stipped to the bones basic?
I mean rather than have a mana pool or stamina pool you have to build resources to access higher damage skills.
Its more involved than typical mmorpgs that just give you a mana pool and a bunch of damage skills on a global cooldown.
Also the combat is very mobile, everyones done on the move which can further complicate things...in fact for dungeons i prefer having a build that doesnt involve me watching the hot bars at all...its refreshing to actually watch my character as i play after all those years of watching my hotbar.
If you consider that moving backwards you must be new to mmorpgs.
Anyway...what games do you consider having awesome combat, stick to tab target games if you dont mind. Im curious if your a global cooldown and mana pool fan or a crowded hotbar with seperate cooldowns type of fan.
Krytycal's raison d'être is to bash TSW combat. he's been doing it for weeks (going back into beta). he spends the time to make and post craftily edited videos on youtube, and then spends hours in these forums explaining to everyone how much it sucks, both in PvP and PvE. my god, man...why do you continue on with this? if you clearly hate it so much, go play something else until your beloved GW2 releases.
some people like the idea of experimenting with builds to find the most effective combinations, not merely the most efficient in terms of button-mashing.
does it matter so much to you that one person might be convinced not to play the game after you continue to bang this drum so loudly? go troll somewhere else please. you've made your point, such as it is.
Comments
ktanner is one of the more reasonable posters around here even if you differ on opinion.
I should know. Him and I only differed on about a billion different things in relation to SWTOR.
...and I really don't see any ridicule or trollish behavior in his comment.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
This is the only reason I didn't even buy this game. MMOs are centered around combat and fighting your way through the levels. So combat has be to good for an MMO to be good. This game has some of the worst combat I've ever seen. The Decks and skill wheel is just plain complicated, and could've been the same but so much better organized and simpler (layout wise). I played the beta, and I just found myself mashing 111111111111211111111111121111111112 the entire time. The animations for such a great looking game are also horrible. They're more scary than the zombies and draugr lol, (which are the same monster you fight from level 1 to who knows whatever level (at least 18, that I know of), they all have the same moves and act almost the same). This game, like AoC, has potential, but the combat is just plain horrible and holding it back.
TSW doesn't have levels. The whole at least 18 thing I have no idea what you're referring to or how you would know something that doesn't exist. As for the combo builders, the game steps up considerably as the game progresses. Many players are failing to adapt and now are asking for content to be nerfed because they can't be bothered to switch out of their 111112111112 build that you suggest. If people keep thinking that's all the combat is in this game, they will not do well at all.
i can actually kinda agree with the op and i still play the game. The skill wheel itself is poorly done and thought out. When i can buy a basic ability that say does 170 damage and a leech effect and then later on for say 34 pts i can buy one just like it but with less leech and less damage thats just poor slap dash programming on their end. The game does hit a rut when you get past savage coast and there is tons of players on the offical forums that agree. The argument is leave it hard funcom screw the whiners, well guess what the few elites here soon wont have anyone to play with.
Combat gets beyond tedious once you leave savage coast because it goes from a fun action game to a take 45 seconds to kill 1 mob spamming the same two or three skills per kill. That makes combat come to a crawl and it gets worse in egypt when every mob besides the human cultists have mechanics that make you dodge on top of already having 10k health. Thats just not fun its tedious . I am currently faction rank 9 and have the skill wheel 42% complete with many builds in 4 weapons and many passives and the game just sucks when you get further towards end game. Mobs shouldnt take over 1 min each to kill when you have to kill 100s its boring and slow .
I like a challange but making a mob have mechanics you have to think to kill or be killed is the way to go not just stacking up mobs health to 12-14k each on stupid zombies or bugs its pointless and stupid. This game hits home just like tortage did in AOC but like AOC once you get away from the first couple of zones it gets boring and repetitive with very poorly designed combat and abilites.
edit- also enjoy being stuck in a leech build to play for the rest of the game past the savage coast as thats the only way to survive.
If you can't kill mobs fast enough solo... why not teaming? Both are viable, teaming is much faster and can be much more fun, too.
And actually complaining about having to dodge in combat just sounds like you want to simply stand in front of a mob press a couple buttons and kill it with no effort.
Grab a friend or two and you'll kill those mobs faster than you did the ones in SC solo.
Several of the complaints are quite contradictory.
I'd like to also add that i normally play my damage built, based on crtis, with no leach and under 3k HP while soloing, and i've been able to solo quite effectively in Egypt. Things die reasonably fast, and i only die if i become careless or get jumped by unexpected adds.
Honestly, and I say this with no intent to insult or denigrate, but your entire post boils down to "This is too different", and being different to me is why TSW is probably the best MMO released since Everquest (because no, I never did and never will take WoW seriously in spite of its insane legion of fans).
The combat is no better than any other MMO out there, but it's no worse.
You spend a lot of time in those areas because there's a lot to do; you can't just speed click thru 30 quests windows then run off and complete them all in one shot, because these require thought and patience and thought and thought. I've got almost 40 hours played and I'm still running aorund discovering quests in Kingsmouth.
Lack of content? I don't see it. Seriously. I can't understand how someone can say that, but hey...to each his own.
no im complaining about mobs health and obviously you havent been to far into the game because i group up all the time with guildies. You can try to make it sound as good as you want to but mechanics suck for basing praise around action combat. There is no action its a snoozefest . Mob health doesnt make mobs harder it makes stuff longer to kill and there is tons of chat spam in the game that is just as annoyed as i am. But all the complaining is a minority i guess , we will see in a couple of months....
I'm in Egypt in live, went farther in CB, i like soloing a lot, i enjoy grouping too. I don't depend on leeching to keep going, i have a leech build that is quite fun, but my main one is chaos/pistol one. That's what i use the most.
your complaint specifically talk about mobs taking long to kill (which teaming or having more damage solves) and it being an issue after SC (which i'm way past from) so can dispute your assertion base don my personal experiences.
Combat is pretty standard for MMO's and better than most. Some other MMOs have better combat, too.
What are you talking about? If you actually have gotten far in the game, you would know that mobs do have other mechanics. They call for help. They have states (buffs) on them if you glance or throw affliction on them. They have abilities if they crit you, they debuff you. They have abilities you need to interrupt. They have abilities you need to avoid. What else could you want from a challenge? It's not even close to mobs just have more health. Not even close. This isn't opinion. It's a fact.
Complaining about combat then going back to lotro, wow, just wow.
3 spammy attacks and 2 when you're tanking? so what two builds or 5 abilities out of seven you use? Oh and you DPS with your tank spec? That must be....interesting. Wonder how you beat Boogey Man or Ankenetan. How did Rogue Agent treat ya?
You must of been really great against the computer in Facility where everyone needs to go DPS. Didn't change your abilities once? BS
Okay give me your seven abilities. I would really like to see this. Oh and list your passives too. Ya know, cause those matter too.
I to thought the combat was simple and boring and was about to let my free 30 burn out. But then i decided to try shotgun(last weapon i hadnt tried) and as i was lalalaing thru the quests I notice something about the skill system. Theres more to it than just picking whichever one has the highest damage number. As a Grifter My fav combo for tough mobs right now (not sure on skill names)
sawed off a few times to give the mob weakness then an elemental elite that roots em and makes em hindered. Then i use this one shotgun ability that has okay damage and cast time but has a good bang if the target is hindered. When he breaks then i will have enough for thors hammer, if he still wants more this one shotgun ability that has a long a$$ cast time but does alot of damage if u have all 5 shotgun rescources. And for my finisher theres this one shotgun ability that always does decent damage but clears ur shotgun resource.
So 117222643
Now its different for weak mobs and groups of mobs.
Now in most mmos I mostly just spam the highest hitting ability and when its on cooldown spam the next highest one and so forth, never found a reason to debuff or cc in pve unless i was a glass cannon class and even then just cc.
So far non of my skills hit that hard unless they take alot of resources or the enemy is under some status effect or range.
I just got into savage coast and started on the outer wheel. And while I always thought i would use sawed off and its passive to cause weakness im thinking of changing what i thought would be set till endgame.
I havnt played Tera (other than that cr@9y demo they have) but compared to LOTOR and even swtor(lotor2) the combat in TSW is far more complex and challenging. Ofcourse you can be like most players i see runing around and spaming the same ability and stand there getting hit by a mob's special.
Like I said, I did all the PvE content, including those fights you mentioned with the same build. Here it is:
http://thesecretsandbox.com/Deck?abilities=,367,318,1024,1028,324,60,74,1027,1025,1023,368,61,321,1034
I never said I used the same build I leveled/PvE with for Nightmare tanking. I use a slightly modified version of the above build, switching hammer for Chaos and dropping one of the attacks.
The only encounter where I had to change my PvE build was against the Gatekeeper. Everything else was a breeze.
so its the games fault you chose to ignore all but 13 skills and stick with a boring combat setup?
Umm, yeah... How's it not?
I'm not being sarcastic. Being able to get away with relying on only a few abilities and mostly just spamming resource builder and consumers over and over again in Carpal Tunnel inducing sequences IS the fault of the game. If combat was designed better from the ground up to not be so spammy it would be a lot better.
I use what works best.
Here's a video of a tank clearing a nightmare dungeon. I use a very similar spec (I actually only use 1 AoE, he has 2). You'll see his rotation consists of 1111111111111 with the ocasion 2 and 3 thrown in. Why do we use rotations like this? Because it works.
link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jsDlZ-pR90
Agree 100%.
Not sure why everyone is trying to white knight the combat system. It needs serious work. Pretending everything is fine will not fix the game.
What you're saying doesn't even make sense. You say that you didn't have to switch your build, then you say you switched your build for chaos. And you did say that you used the same build for Nightmare tanking. I mean read what you wrote. Based on the previous you picked 7 abilities active and 7 passive and you didn't change anything for any PvE. The only exception being the Gatekeeper. Your statements are full of contradictions. And that build? While being able to survive with some good heals, leaves you vulnerable to certain mobs - namely shield, magic damage affliction and burst DPS.
But by your own admission, you did have to change your builds based on your encounters and you don't use one build 99.99999% of the time as you would have others believe.
edit- now if what you call 'builds' is weapon combinations, then you're probably right. All weapon combinations should be viable for all content. This is by design. The abilities you use within the weapon combos is the key.
Actually if he choses to ignore all the rest of the abilities in game, it's his own decision, not the game's.
you cna even reduce the amount of clicks you have to do per minute if, for instance, use focused attacks that take from 1.5 to 5 seconds to complete.
You could probably do mostly the same on any combat system, from start to end using a very limited set of powers and attacks, and it would still be your decision.
He basically decided to bore himself with the same stuff instead of testing and trying other specs. And if he says there would be no difference, i, that don't falme or fight in forums, would call bullshit, cause he could approach DPS along a set of different types of attack types, add utilities that could help his groups (and also soloing) and adjust for several different effects. All of which make a lot o a difference in terms of game play.
Well ive found a lot of fun combat builds that dont have spammy aspects to them. I can understand someone being afraid to dabble in other builds and it does take time to get one that feels right.
Combat is a good as your build is in this game, if your complaining combat is too spammy or boring then change it up...dont stick with it and refuse to change it because it simply works...thats retarded in a game that gives you complete control over your build role and skills used.
I can understand combat complaints while your fresh in kingsmouth, you dont have a lot of options and most the inner circle skills operate in the same manner, once you get out of kingsmouth its really up to you if you want a fun build or a build that just works.
I respect people who like TSW combat.
But what I don't get is how difficult it is to understand that the reason why most people don't like TSW combat has nothing to do with the wrong choice of skill sets, but more about the whole mechanic of the system.
The combat system in TSW is very basic, I would say striped to the bone.
There is nothing exciting about.
You choose you skill set, you start spamming the same rotation all over and that's all.
Wanna see a grood combat system?............Just look at AoC, it might not be everyone cup of tea, but it was different, and personally I liked it.
And guess who made AoC?
Exactly, Funcom.
How they could get TSW combat so wrong when combat in AoC was probably the best part of the game is beyond my comprehension.
I guess this rappresent a metaphor for the whole MMO industry which is going backward rather than going forward.
Its the mechanics and how it feels/looks. The skill wheel itself is pretty cool.
I honestly don't understand why you're getting all confused. My post was pretty clear. I used the build I mentioned to level through all the content (PvE) spamming the same 3 abilities. I only had to switch one ability to fight the Gatekeeper.
Obviously I don't use the same build I leveled with to tank nightmare dungeons. I use a different build where I spam 2 abilities.
How exactly is it stipped to the bones basic?
I mean rather than have a mana pool or stamina pool you have to build resources to access higher damage skills.
Its more involved than typical mmorpgs that just give you a mana pool and a bunch of damage skills on a global cooldown.
Also the combat is very mobile, everyones done on the move which can further complicate things...in fact for dungeons i prefer having a build that doesnt involve me watching the hot bars at all...its refreshing to actually watch my character as i play after all those years of watching my hotbar.
If you consider that moving backwards you must be new to mmorpgs.
Anyway...what games do you consider having awesome combat, stick to tab target games if you dont mind. Im curious if your a global cooldown and mana pool fan or a crowded hotbar with seperate cooldowns type of fan.
Krytycal's raison d'être is to bash TSW combat. he's been doing it for weeks (going back into beta). he spends the time to make and post craftily edited videos on youtube, and then spends hours in these forums explaining to everyone how much it sucks, both in PvP and PvE. my god, man...why do you continue on with this? if you clearly hate it so much, go play something else until your beloved GW2 releases.
some people like the idea of experimenting with builds to find the most effective combinations, not merely the most efficient in terms of button-mashing.
does it matter so much to you that one person might be convinced not to play the game after you continue to bang this drum so loudly? go troll somewhere else please. you've made your point, such as it is.