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Guild Wars 2- Some thoughts and concerns.
MikeJezZ
Member UncommonPosts: 1,268
in Guild Wars 2
Hey Guys,
As a day goes by, a day is ripped off my calender and I count down how many days are left until the release. I were in BWE3 and a bit in the stress test yesterday, and I liked the game. I played the whole BWE3 out, however I only wanted to try the Guardian for like an hour to see if I would like him.
I know many, who - like me - can't wait to see Guild Wars 2 arrives. I also know some, who says the game will be boring after a month or so - both people who does and does not look forward to the game. And no matter how much I love Guild Wars 2, I can see what is lurking in the shadows:
- No progression - I like the idea to log in for just having fun, but is that enough? We love to hunt down new and better rewards, but Guild Wars 2 do not have them at all. They are pure cosmetic. What will keep the flame in this game?
- Heavy PvP oriented - I prefer playing PvP. PvE is normally not my cup of tea. However GW2 PvE felt refreshing and fun. But normally, a PvP game dies slowly - for some reason people prefer PvE. and I fear that this will be a big fail later on.
- Some cash-shop restrictions - I understand, that ANet should earn money. While I think it's allright they charge for non-beneficial stuff, I think its a little unfair, we might need to get charged to buy extra character slots than just the 5 standard slots.
- Splitted character development - You level in PvE and get gear you can use in PvE and WvW - but you lose it to some specified armor in the mists. It removes the personality you gave your character.
I really dont hope that the game will fail to any of this. But it will surely be weird to not go for any gear progression and just pure cosmetic looks. And as the fun should rewarding enough itself - would it be enough to keep us occupied in Guild Wars 2?
Comments
Well there is progression, it's just not the vertical progression you are used to, but rather horizontal progression...
There's more PvE content than PvP content in GW2...
About the cash shop... would you have said that being able to buy gold is a bit unfair, I'd have seen your point, but character slots... there's no monthly fee. You don't fork out $15 per month. So even if a slot is $15, it's just a month of being able to play in another game... and you don't need it to play the game either.
You can give the look of any armor to other armor using transmutation stones. None of the gear you got is obsolete look-wise, if you liked that level 30 armor, you can keep it's look even on level 80 armor.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
My biggest concern is that I still am not 100% on what Race I want my main to be.
Human or Asura... human or Asura...
Female human or Male Asura...
I like the human zones and "theme" better than Asura, but the Asura animations and just... presence is so damned fun!
I'll throw in a quick comment regarding the progression in terms of cosmetic rewars (cooler looking stuff).
It worked just fine for most people in GW1. Max level was 20, which you could reach in 5-8 hours if you tried, there was no progression in terms of power at all after that. Still, people spent hundreds or thousands of hours in game, when for vast majority of time in game, there was absolutely no progression other than cosmetic items. Some of those cosmetic items even sold for huge amounts of in game cash (crystalline sword, anyone?)! I can't see a reason why this wouldn't work in GW2.
Korrigan's "logical" solution:
- Make an Asura.
- Head to human areas via Lion's Arch and level there.
- Teleport back to Asura land for the story quests.
- Profit!
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Well I make Norn on all my characters :P Norn rogue looks silly, but ITS A NORN! :P
Why does a guardian has 10.000 less HP than a warrior?
Cuz that's just not for everyone, and probably one of the reasons GW was not bigger than it was.
I've never been a vain person, but I'm sucker for things that will make my life more enjoyable. I'd rather have a 8000$ computer than 10,000 rolex. I'm willing to compete for those things against all odds if need be.
I don't know, but I found this out when WoW took rating requirments off arena gear. I hit the rating to get the best gear, then had no motivation (atleast far less) to push further and get the cosmetic skin of the same thing I had. I think my partners felt the same, they quit.
Believe it or not, I enjoyed working for the goal in order to get more powerful weapons. This is probbably #3 on my "I just don't know""
Because they heal themselves about 5x more effectively? Just saying...
GW2 was big enough and not trying to be "for everyone" is what made it good. GW2 won't be for everyone, either, and that's a good thing. Games that try to please everyone usually end up sucking.
The big question is how many people of those who played GW1 actually stuck with it?
If 2 million buy GW2 but only 10% like the "endgame" and stick with it for more than a 2-3 months, would that be a success?
my review of GW2
You pick Asura and don't ever look back
1) Um, there's more progression than you know. PvP has it's ranks as well as it's special gear (cosmetic only!). PvE has it's Legendary weapons. Just because people aren't chasing down items with over 9,000 (ha!) hit points doesn't mean that they're not still chasing gear for looks. Just see how popular hats are in TF2 to know that people can chase cosmetic items for the sake of having them.
2) Wrong. Sure, PvP is a HUGE thing in this game, but it's not the main focus. PvE is an UBER thing in this game. There's dozens of PvE dungeons. There's also mini-games, the world-raid like Dynamic Events in Orr, and as mentioned above the every tail-chasing run for Legendary Weapons. Oh, and I forgot to mention the jump puzzles, Vistas, zone completions, crafting and city exploration.
3) $15 for 2 extra character slots. There, you just spent as much as your first month's subscription in WoW. What's the difference? It's OPTIONAL, not required. And, even then, you don't have to spend money on it as you can convert in-game gold earned into Gems and buy them that way.
4) The "mists" and sPvP is structured to have everyone on an even playing field. All the gear there is equal, so players are measured on their skill, not their shinny gear. The only gear there that progresses is purely cosmetic in nature and almost no power to it. Even racial skills are excluded from the sPvP because they leave an unbalance. sPvP is almost like it's own game, similar to League of Legends, but without having to pay for each and every Champion or Rune. The WvWvW and PvE are progressional in that they have levels, gear, items and others that are calculated into them. But, again, on a different plain.
I really, and I mean really have no freaking idea how anyone can say GW2 has no progression. You progress the same as any other RPG type game; levels, skill tree, gear.
As for OP, you say gear is cosmetic? Gear has stats, and while the game doesn't revolve around grinding dungeons and mobs for certain gear, or grinding like a mofo to get the tier of gear you need/want for pvp you get a straight up equal opportunity to fight a fair match against everyone else.
There is still that special gear and those special items out there you can get by grinding points, karma gear, and whatever the pvp point system is.
The most confusing thing the OP says is the game us fun, but is logging in to have fun enough? Bwahaha, wtf? I'm pretty sure we all play video games to entertain ourselves and have fun, right?
So if you are having fun, what else matters? PFfssahhhthhs, unlike many other mmo's where the "real fun starts at level cap". OR, "I just need to get this last set of gear and I'll be good to go". Lawl.....fuckin chump.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
The horizontal progression is also rather short and not very broad. These few weapons are skilled quickly.
There is some lateral progression which is mainly cosmetic. Non-combat skillsets, which usually count as lateral as well are missing in GW2, too.
I am also against the endless vertical progression driven by the item-treatmill. But to replace it by just cosmetic progression and some alternate achievements/titles is a bit narrow compared to other non-vertical progressing games.
We will see, if this leads to an exodus in a few month or not.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
That aside I think once people see how they go about "grinding" for legendaries just for the look I think it won't be a problem. This isn't running the same dungeons 500 times. You can go to places you haven't been before doing new DEs and such.
Some people still won't like it but I think skeptics willing to give it a try will be surprised.
since 10 years
- i am always sceptical
- i always give it a trial
- and i never was surprised
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
As to progression, there is progression, gear and otherwise, up to the level cap. For those that haven't done Skill Point Challenges along the way, skill aquisition will continue after the cap. Also, people don't instantly get the best level 80 gear when turning 80, but it's not as difficult to aquire as in other games and there is no gear inflation beyond that point.
For achievers, there is still plenty to achieve after level 80. For people who enjoy GW2 PvE content, 3 of the 8 Dungeons are level 80 and there is a level 80 game zone with a complex web of Dynamic Events and capture points that will be more engaging to many at cap players than endlessly repeating, gear driven raids ever could hope to match. Don't forget that level scaling allows a level 80 to return to lower level content and still get good XP and loot. If you enjoy certain events and zones in the game, you can keep going back to them after you've reached the cap!
If you feel you've seen all you want to see and done all you wanted to do with one character, there is always the progression of leveling an alt. This game is the most alt/replay friendly MMO I've ever seen. There is much more content than needed to level. The races have their own level 2-15 and 15-25 zones and there are always at least two zones for each level range beyond that point. Even if you follow the same zone to zone path, the nature of Dynamic events, plus Arenanet's commitment to push new DEs on a continuing bases ensure that the game will remain fresh through multiple plays through.
sPvP will get new maps. Competative players will play in formal competition. People still play GW1 solely for the PvP today, almost 8 years after the game first released.
World vs. World will maintain it's own long term following.
I don't get your second point. PvE is better than PvP? PvP is better than PvE? PvE is better for long term customer retention? PvP is better for long term customer retention? I don't know, I can't understand what you wrote.
Don't get point three either. It's a benign cash shop. It's not Pay2Win. Even the cash shop critics usually agree that cosmetic items AND account services like character slots are acceptable, so I fail to see why offering character slots makes a bad cash shop.
Point 4. You always have access to free max stat gear in sPvP. You have some freedom to decide what stats you want to support your build. You can earn cosmetic unlocks in sPvP, so that you can customize your look and differentiate yourself. It won't be a mode where everyone looks alike. However, it's a mode thats almost entirely about the game play and the competition. Some players won't care at all about the "fluff" and will play to be the best. I don't see the issue. Having NO stat grind in sPvP allows it to be all about skill, which is a huge plus.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
If someone thinks cosmetic progression won't work, they've never seen TF2.
Trading for the weapons you want? Weapons drop like rain, and you can trade almost any of them 1-to-1. The only valued ones are cosmetic reskins.
Getting the cosmetic hat you want? Those are pretty expensive and highly sought. People will play for months to earn the metal they can trade for one, and once they get it, they quickly see another they want.
And here's the kicker. In any match, the only player that cannot see a hat is the one wearing it. People go crazy over cosmetic items that they can't even see.
Trust me, it'll work in GW2.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
ROFL....You have the exact same problem as me and I thought I was the only person with this dilemma. I now feel so much better knowing I am not going to be alone and spend 5 hours when I'm creating my character once the game goes live until I enter the game with my Female Human or Male Asuraian...LOL decisions, decisions, decisions...
Asbo
I just wanted to use my pve cosmetic in pvp
My biggest concern is that any game I start now suck badly for me.
And I just wanted to help them do a stress test yesterday, I knew what was gonna happen and I still played again. Now it's pain untill 25th.
Now about stuff you posted.
While most of those things migh be problematic we will have to spend good amount of hours in game to see if they really are.
Since we only have to pay box price my guess is by the time we get to those problems we will get what we paid for so after that any of us can just drop game for some time and get back to it without thinking about paying sub of buying game time cards.
That alone is good reason not to be worried IMO.
About gear in sPVP I can see that beeing problem for someone but for me it's great that I know everyone is on same level there, at least gear-wise. It will be shame that I can't show off my new shiny piece of gear, but knowing that I won't be killed because someone has lot more time on their hands to grind for better gear is enough for me.
I agree as long as you enjoy the combat and enjoy the pvp maps and the DEs in PVE I don't see why cosmetic gear progression won't interest people. I know it interests me a lot. Also looking at how dungeons are setup they are more about exploration and teamwork allowing you to enjoy them in there 4 modes aside from just running them over and over and over the same way all the time just to hope you get that ultra rare gear drop. It's a differn't game and won't be for everyone but certainly for people who are tired of the same old wow style gear grind endgame we have seen over the past decade.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Fair enough concerns. Allow me to address them a bit:
- Progression. There actually is a good amount of progression in this game. You're right, it is based mostly around cosmetics, once you finish the traits / lvling progression. If you are someone who has never seen this in action, then there's nothing really that can be said. You will just have to wait and see for yourself. However, many of us know that a cosmetic-based progression most definitely can work. Hell, GW1 still has people grinding for various cosmetics to this day. Anet is really good at constantly adding new shinies that people want to obtain (even if they offer no power advantage). Never underestimate the power of looking badass.
- Heavy PvP oriented. I see this a lot. Part of this comes from hardcore PvPers who don't care about PvE. Part of this comes from misguided PvErs who don't understand the PvE in this game. A lot of it comes from people who are just parroting what they hear others say. I'll say this: It's just not true. This game actually has a really healthy mix of PvP and PvE content. What's great about the PvE content in this game, is that it never gets irrelevant. You are free to do whatever content you find fun in the game. There's also a lot of PvE in this game that mimicks what you'd see in WvW. So there are a lot of events centered around conquest. Defending villages / marching on enemy encampments / capturing & securing strategic areas on the map. There's a lot of replay value there for the non-PvPer. And that's not even getting into the dungeons.
- Cash shop restrictions. This may seem like a big deal to some. I'll just point this out. You don't need to spend any money to use the cash shop. You can buy it w/ ingame gold if you want. There are some people working on putting out video guides on how to work the economy in GW2, as well. This game makes it insanely easy to make money if you use your brain a little bit. I'm actually planning on buying a lot of the upgrades using in-game gold for gems, instead of real money. I will cought up some dollars for extra character slots, though, just to reserve my names asap.
- Splitting character development. I can see what you mean. However, this is only really an issue until you get to 80. I think all the armor skins u can get from pve you can get from pvp, and visa versa. You can also transmute skins of cool armor you get in PvP onto lower gear if you wanted to do that. There is some synergy there.