It's illegal in game. Give all parties the in-game death penalty. Aka, delete their characters. The buyers and the RMT. Ok, I guess buyers being deleted may be harsh, but they cheated in a MMO. It should be at least a month ban.
You would think this is common sense for game companies, but most skimp out on their GMs, they don't care, GM's aren't proactive. Really, only F2P games barely have an excuse because they can keep making free accounts, but really if the GMs kept it up (If there were any) then it wouldn't happen.
I think it's also party of the duty of a GM to be motivated enough to ban the bots instead of them playing Mr popular with the suckups in game (Which I sometimes see). Maybe this means actually screening GM applicants and weeding out people who want the job because they can play a video game for work and letting people in who actually care about the online game communities. Kind of like Silver Knight/Crimson knights in .hack, just without the huge egos and the power trips.
These RMT organizations have gotten big and rich, thanks to companies like NCSoft, who don't give a damn if bots are playing or not. Along with companies that go through the motions and ban bots when there's a forum uproar, but then do nothing after people quiet down and the bots return.
I think it should be taxed or have some sort of currency transaction fee associated with it. Because if you don't, you could--theoretically--sell bazookas and RPGs to terrorists for WoW gold, and not be subject to prosecution as an arms trafficker.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
No it isn't illegal, and not it isn't the same as pirating software.
There is a direct relationship between pirated software and the money a developer would have obtained from selling that software. They own the software, they were the only ones allowed to sell it, anyone else doing so stealing the money they would have earned. There is a law against pirating software.
None of this is happening is gold selling, unless the game company themselves sell goldl If the devs don't sell gold, then whether the gold seller is in the game or not, the devs would have made the same amount of money, actually possibly less because the seller themselves had to buy a copy of the game. There is no software being pirated, there is no loss of money to the developer.
There is no law against gold selling. There is a law against pirated software.
And no it shouldn't be illegal. The only thing that should be illegal are illegal actions being done to obtain the gold (sweatshops, hacks...). And that is allready illegal.
I see your point there.. but now with GW2 they technically are selling gold in a way so technically the gold sellers are potentially taking money from them and as a non sub based game it's one of their main sources of revenue.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by Aerowyn Originally posted by strangepowerOriginally posted by AerowynOriginally posted by strangepowerOriginally posted by Aerowynyou are making money off of someone else's product illegally.. don't see it any differn't than people who rip movies or games and sell pirated copies and that's a felony...
With that sort of rationale you would see it fit to charge the gold buyers with a felony too for facilitation of a Black Market, like busting the john and the prostitute as well? Sounds like a well thought out idea...yes same as it's illegal to buy pirated copies of video games.. usually the punishment is worse for the supplier than the buyer as with most thingsOff topic, but telling to say the least, whats your stance on Amendment 64?been for legalization of marijuana for years.. honestly think alcohol is much worse overall
I think it's unfortunate that the common cry is for legalization as opposed to decriminalization; small steps.
Originally posted by Aerowyn you are making money off of someone else's product illegally.. don't see it any differn't than people who rip movies or games and sell pirated copies and that's a felony...
The thing is, it's not a question of 'if' gold selling is illegal. It is illegal. The issue comes down to how to prosecute it. When dealing w/ gold sellers (and especially ones that hack), you are nearly always dealing w/ an internation incident. Issues with Intellectual Property, especially digital IP, are typically handled very poorly internationally.
Different countries have different laws around these issues, and they also prioritize them much differently. Western companies tend to persue these issues much more aggressively, because a lot of our money in the west comes from our inovations. Eastern companies are typically not as aggressive about it.
Anet & Blizzard aren't even the only major companies to have to deal w/ issues like blatant EULA breaks. Companies like Google & Apple have also had their share of trouble in dealing w/ IP issues overseas as well. Gold selling has always been illegal, but it's up to the countries who are harboring these criminals to each handle them on their own. It's also a question of how much pressure MMO companies can put on these countries to prosecute & crack down on gold sellers. For some countries it's more effective, but for some of the major offenders (like China) it just doesn't work.
It is not illegal to sell currency in video games. That is a croc...
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
illegal is a pretty stupid word. fraud is illegal, yet our entire country as well as many others are in complete turmoil because of endless amounts of fraud, with endless amounts of proof of the fraud and very little convictions or consequences.
then you have the war on drugs. making things illegal often makes them more profitable.
in a perfect world, yes .. gold sellers (not farmers, the title of your post just flat out sucks. I farm gold, but don't sell it) .. should be in prison. never going to happen tho.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Originally posted by Aerowyn you are making money off of someone else's product illegally.. don't see it any differn't than people who rip movies or games and sell pirated copies and that's a felony...
The point is you do not make it illegaly, EULA has no legal standing...
True. On the other hand the account they are using is probably stolen. I don't know what, if any law that falls under. If they bought the game, but are not playing withing the rules, the only thing that can be done is ban them, that's what you do to "cheaters".
Gold Sellers = That guy in arcades who sell tickets that you exchange for prizes..
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
No it isn't illegal, and not it isn't the same as pirating software.
There is a direct relationship between pirated software and the money a developer would have obtained from selling that software. They own the software, they were the only ones allowed to sell it, anyone else doing so stealing the money they would have earned. There is a law against pirating software.
None of this is happening is gold selling, unless the game company themselves sell goldl If the devs don't sell gold, then whether the gold seller is in the game or not, the devs would have made the same amount of money, actually possibly less because the seller themselves had to buy a copy of the game. There is no software being pirated, there is no loss of money to the developer.
There is no law against gold selling. There is a law against pirated software.
And no it shouldn't be illegal. The only thing that should be illegal are illegal actions being done to obtain the gold (sweatshops, hacks...). And that is allready illegal.
I see your point there.. but now with GW2 they technically are selling gold in a way so technically the gold sellers are potentially taking money from them and as a non sub based game it's one of their main sources of revenue.
I haven't played GW2 yet, but if the developers of the code/game are selling gold, then that IMO lowly opinion anyway that actually could be considered illegal for the above reasons.
It would be interesting to see if that would hold up in a challenge, but I think they have a better shot at winning than in a game where they weren't selling gold.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
No it isn't illegal, and not it isn't the same as pirating software.
There is a direct relationship between pirated software and the money a developer would have obtained from selling that software. They own the software, they were the only ones allowed to sell it, anyone else doing so stealing the money they would have earned. There is a law against pirating software.
None of this is happening is gold selling, unless the game company themselves sell goldl If the devs don't sell gold, then whether the gold seller is in the game or not, the devs would have made the same amount of money, actually possibly less because the seller themselves had to buy a copy of the game. There is no software being pirated, there is no loss of money to the developer.
There is no law against gold selling. There is a law against pirated software.
And no it shouldn't be illegal. The only thing that should be illegal are illegal actions being done to obtain the gold (sweatshops, hacks...). And that is allready illegal.
I see your point there.. but now with GW2 they technically are selling gold in a way so technically the gold sellers are potentially taking money from them and as a non sub based game it's one of their main sources of revenue.
I haven't played GW2 yet, but if the developers of the code/game are selling gold, then that IMO lowly opinion anyway that actually could be considered illegal for the above reasons.
you buy gems in GW2.. gems can be converted to gold and ingame gold can be converted to gems.. so it's not technically gold they sell but still a way to buy gold for money.. so yea I'd agree it should be considered illegal in GW2's case
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by Aerowyn you are making money off of someone else's product illegally.. don't see it any differn't than people who rip movies or games and sell pirated copies and that's a felony...
The thing is, it's not a question of 'if' gold selling is illegal. It is illegal. The issue comes down to how to prosecute it. When dealing w/ gold sellers (and especially ones that hack), you are nearly always dealing w/ an internation incident. Issues with Intellectual Property, especially digital IP, are typically handled very poorly internationally.
Different countries have different laws around these issues, and they also prioritize them much differently. Western companies tend to persue these issues much more aggressively, because a lot of our money in the west comes from our inovations. Eastern companies are typically not as aggressive about it.
Anet & Blizzard aren't even the only major companies to have to deal w/ issues like blatant EULA breaks. Companies like Google & Apple have also had their share of trouble in dealing w/ IP issues overseas as well. Gold selling has always been illegal, but it's up to the countries who are harboring these criminals to each handle them on their own. It's also a question of how much pressure MMO companies can put on these countries to prosecute & crack down on gold sellers. For some countries it's more effective, but for some of the major offenders (like China) it just doesn't work.
It is not illegal to sell currency in video games. That is a croc...
It's not against the law, but it is against an individual companies guidelines, namely their EULA. Game companies can go after anyone who breaks these rules. For small time deals like an account sale, they generally don't care (not worth the time or money), but they reserve the right to serve litigation against those who habitually violate their rules, specifically, gold farmers & account hackers (stealers).
So it's not against the law to sell currency, but it is a break in a contractual agreement between the company and the user, which leads to someone being sued. This is why MMO companies take gold selling sites to court and (sometimes) win (Blizzard did this many times). Court details are generally interesting, because a gold seller is asked where they got the currency they sold.
Originally posted by Aerowynyou are making money off of someone else's product illegally.. don't see it any differn't than people who rip movies or games and sell pirated copies and that's a felony...
With that sort of rationale you would see it fit to charge the gold buyers with a felony too for facilitation of a Black Market, like busting the john and the prostitute as well? Sounds like a well thought out idea...
yes same as it's illegal to buy pirated copies of video games.. usually the punishment is worse for the supplier than the buyer as with most things
I understand what you're saying and I agree with you. The same people that think gold farming and selling gold is okay are probably the people that think ripping CDs or movies and selling them is okay. Intellectual copyright laws mean nothing to these people, but they do to me and I agree with what you've said.
How do you draw the parallel between copyright infringement and gold selling?
The line is drawn when the selling of gold prevents or causes the developer of the software to lose money or prevents them obtaining the money. That won't happen until the developer themselves start selling gold.
In the music industry, copyright is infringed when IP is stolen, not just because one's activities cause a loss of revenue.
The activities that can cause revenue loss are many... but a dude stealing gold from another's account is not infringing anyone's ability to earn revenue, the game company already has it via box and/or sub.
cop·y·right? [kop-ee-rahyt] 1. the exclusive right to make copies, license, and otherwise exploit a literary, musical, or artistic work, whether printed, audio, video, etc.: works granted such right by law on or after January 1, 1978, are protected for the lifetime of the author or creator and for a period of 50 years after his or her death.
*****************
tl;dr: There is no parallel. To often users toss out terms or ideas they don't fully understand, such as threatening to inform the BBB; which is met by educating them that the BBB is in fact a scam.
In the music industry, copyright is infringed when IP is stolen, not just because one's activities cause a loss of revenue.
The activities that can cause revenue loss are many... but a dude stealing gold from another's account is not infringing anyone's ability to earn revenue, the game company already has it via box and/or sub.
cop·y·right? [kop-ee-rahyt] 1. the exclusive right to make copies, license, and otherwise exploit a literary, musical, or artistic work, whether printed, audio, video, etc.: works granted such right by law on or after January 1, 1978, are protected for the lifetime of the author or creator and for a period of 50 years after his or her death.
*****************
tl;dr: There is no parallel. To often users toss out therms they don't fully understand, such as threatening to inform the BBB; which is met by educating them that the BBB is in fact a scam.
what if the game developers sell gold ingame as part of their revenue?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by strangepowerIn the music industry, copyright is infringed when IP is stolen, not just because one's activities cause a loss of revenue. The activities that can cause revenue loss are many... but a dude stealing gold from another's account is not infringing anyone's ability to earn revenue, the game company already has it via box and/or sub. cop·y·right? [kop-ee-rahyt] 1. the exclusive right to make copies, license, and otherwise exploit a literary, musical, or artistic work, whether printed, audio, video, etc.: works granted such right by law on or after January 1, 1978, are protected for the lifetime of the author or creator and for a period of 50 years after his or her death. *****************tl;dr: There is no parallel. To often users toss out therms they don't fully understand, such as threatening to inform the BBB; which is met by educating them that the BBB is in fact a scam.
what if the game developers sell gold ingame as part of their revenue?
As in the case with GW2?
You have to understand that any team of lawyers considering legal action always consider the loss/benefit factors when pursuing a suit.
The numbers would have to be through the roof before a team was assembled to tackle a legitimate threat to revenue because of gold sellers.
It is more cost efficient to have game admins and IT ban accounts and IP's.
And even if, playing devil's advocate, Anet or anyone else suffered revenue loss it is still not an infringement of copyright.
It's scamming, hacking, cyber terrorism (I kid), but whatever it is, IP was not affected.
Originally posted by Aerowynyou are making money off of someone else's product illegally.. don't see it any differn't than people who rip movies or games and sell pirated copies and that's a felony...
With that sort of rationale you would see it fit to charge the gold buyers with a felony too for facilitation of a Black Market, like busting the john and the prostitute as well? Sounds like a well thought out idea...
yes same as it's illegal to buy pirated copies of video games.. usually the punishment is worse for the supplier than the buyer as with most things
I understand what you're saying and I agree with you. The same people that think gold farming and selling gold is okay are probably the people that think ripping CDs or movies and selling them is okay. Intellectual copyright laws mean nothing to these people, but they do to me and I agree with what you've said.
How do you draw the parallel between copyright infringement and gold selling?
The line is drawn when the selling of gold prevents or causes the developer of the software to lose money or prevents them obtaining the money. That won't happen until the developer themselves start selling gold.
In the music industry, copyright is infringed when IP is stolen, not just because one's activities cause a loss of revenue.
The activities that can cause revenue loss are many... but a dude stealing gold from another's account is not infringing anyone's ability to earn revenue, the game company already has it via box and/or sub.
cop·y·right? [kop-ee-rahyt] 1. the exclusive right to make copies, license, and otherwise exploit a literary, musical, or artistic work, whether printed, audio, video, etc.: works granted such right by law on or after January 1, 1978, are protected for the lifetime of the author or creator and for a period of 50 years after his or her death.
*****************
tl;dr: There is no parallel. To often users toss out terms or ideas they don't fully understand, such as threatening to inform the BBB; which is met by educating them that the BBB is in fact a scam.
in red. gold stealing doesn't infringe on anyone .. except the victim. Given enough victims, the game will see a serious drop in customer activity. If the victims can be diminished, still there is a problem of all that money that went into securing this game. Money that was supposed to be spent in content updates.
A game companies revenue might not be immediately affected, but it will be.
Originally posted by FrodoFragins Of course not. But hacking peoples accounts for any reason should be a crime.
ha! agree with that
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
It's wrong and immoral, but illegal? Sorry, they're not breaking any laws, just the game's TOS. And no, there should NOT be any laws against it. There are much bigger fish to fry than a bunch of morons screwing up a virtual economy.
Originally posted by Aerowynyou are making money off of someone else's product illegally.. don't see it any differn't than people who rip movies or games and sell pirated copies and that's a felony...
With that sort of rationale you would see it fit to charge the gold buyers with a felony too for facilitation of a Black Market, like busting the john and the prostitute as well? Sounds like a well thought out idea...
yes same as it's illegal to buy pirated copies of video games.. usually the punishment is worse for the supplier than the buyer as with most things
I understand what you're saying and I agree with you. The same people that think gold farming and selling gold is okay are probably the people that think ripping CDs or movies and selling them is okay. Intellectual copyright laws mean nothing to these people, but they do to me and I agree with what you've said.
How do you draw the parallel between copyright infringement and gold selling?
The line is drawn when the selling of gold prevents or causes the developer of the software to lose money or prevents them obtaining the money. That won't happen until the developer themselves start selling gold.
In the music industry, copyright is infringed when IP is stolen, not just because one's activities cause a loss of revenue. The activities that can cause revenue loss are many... but a dude stealing gold from another's account is not infringing anyone's ability to earn revenue, the game company already has it via box and/or sub. cop·y·right? [kop-ee-rahyt] 1. the exclusive right to make copies, license, and otherwise exploit a literary, musical, or artistic work, whether printed, audio, video, etc.: works granted such right by law on or after January 1, 1978, are protected for the lifetime of the author or creator and for a period of 50 years after his or her death. *****************tl;dr: There is no parallel. To often users toss out terms or ideas they don't fully understand, such as threatening to inform the BBB; which is met by educating them that the BBB is in fact a scam.
in red. gold stealing doesn't infringe on anyone .. except the victim. Given enough victims, the game will see a serious drop in customer activity. If the victims can be diminished, still there is a problem of all that money that went into securing this game. Money that was supposed to be spent in content updates.
A game companies revenue might not be immediately affected, but it will be.
Sorry dude, you know who the victims are, folks who practice bad computer hygiene and folks who seek out gold selling outfits in the first place.
They actually give them their email & click on emails from the gold sellers, the list goes on of how they compromise themselves and make the problem worse in the first place by buying gold.
Originally posted by Aerowyn you are making money off of someone else's product illegally.. don't see it any differn't than people who rip movies or games and sell pirated copies and that's a felony...
The thing is, it's not a question of 'if' gold selling is illegal. It is illegal. The issue comes down to how to prosecute it. When dealing w/ gold sellers (and especially ones that hack), you are nearly always dealing w/ an internation incident. Issues with Intellectual Property, especially digital IP, are typically handled very poorly internationally.
Different countries have different laws around these issues, and they also prioritize them much differently. Western companies tend to persue these issues much more aggressively, because a lot of our money in the west comes from our inovations. Eastern companies are typically not as aggressive about it.
Anet & Blizzard aren't even the only major companies to have to deal w/ issues like blatant EULA breaks. Companies like Google & Apple have also had their share of trouble in dealing w/ IP issues overseas as well. Gold selling has always been illegal, but it's up to the countries who are harboring these criminals to each handle them on their own. It's also a question of how much pressure MMO companies can put on these countries to prosecute & crack down on gold sellers. For some countries it's more effective, but for some of the major offenders (like China) it just doesn't work.
It is not illegal to sell currency in video games. That is a croc...
It's not against the law, but it is against an individual companies guidelines, namely their EULA. Game companies can go after anyone who breaks these rules. For small time deals like an account sale, they generally don't care (not worth the time or money), but they reserve the right to serve litigation against those who habitually violate their rules, specifically, gold farmers & account hackers (stealers).
So it's not against the law to sell currency, but it is a break in a contractual agreement between the company and the user, which leads to someone being sued. This is why MMO companies take gold selling sites to court and (sometimes) win (Blizzard did this many times). Court details are generally interesting, because a gold seller is asked where they got the currency they sold.
I totally agree, that is why I said it is not illegal to sell in game currency as a business, only a stupid contractual agreement between the user and the game IP. To be honest they don't ban anyone for buying in game currencies anymore that is hoax... They turn a blind eye I buy currency in every game I have ever played and will ever play.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Originally posted by Aerowyn you are making money off of someone else's product illegally.. don't see it any differn't than people who rip movies or games and sell pirated copies and that's a felony...
The thing is, it's not a question of 'if' gold selling is illegal. It is illegal. The issue comes down to how to prosecute it. When dealing w/ gold sellers (and especially ones that hack), you are nearly always dealing w/ an internation incident. Issues with Intellectual Property, especially digital IP, are typically handled very poorly internationally.
Different countries have different laws around these issues, and they also prioritize them much differently. Western companies tend to persue these issues much more aggressively, because a lot of our money in the west comes from our inovations. Eastern companies are typically not as aggressive about it.
Anet & Blizzard aren't even the only major companies to have to deal w/ issues like blatant EULA breaks. Companies like Google & Apple have also had their share of trouble in dealing w/ IP issues overseas as well. Gold selling has always been illegal, but it's up to the countries who are harboring these criminals to each handle them on their own. It's also a question of how much pressure MMO companies can put on these countries to prosecute & crack down on gold sellers. For some countries it's more effective, but for some of the major offenders (like China) it just doesn't work.
It is not illegal to sell currency in video games. That is a croc...
It's not against the law, but it is against an individual companies guidelines, namely their EULA. Game companies can go after anyone who breaks these rules. For small time deals like an account sale, they generally don't care (not worth the time or money), but they reserve the right to serve litigation against those who habitually violate their rules, specifically, gold farmers & account hackers (stealers).
So it's not against the law to sell currency, but it is a break in a contractual agreement between the company and the user, which leads to someone being sued. This is why MMO companies take gold selling sites to court and (sometimes) win (Blizzard did this many times). Court details are generally interesting, because a gold seller is asked where they got the currency they sold.
It is against the rules of the game yes, and yes that does break EULA.
However whlie courts have upheld some EULA's in some jurisdictions
One reason is due to an inherently unfair nature of the EULA, that being that often the customer doesn't have the ability to inspect the eula before purchasing the product.
It's interesting that in Blizzards suit against IGE, they stated nothing about loss of income, which was probably smart, but talked specifically about the gold sellers calculated decision to reap substantial profits by knowingly interfering with and substantially impairing the intended use and enjoyment associated with consumer agreements between blizzard and subscribers to its virtual world called World of Warcraft."
I don't believe the act should be illegal according to the government. However, I do believe the act should be punishable by the company who runs the game.
Gold sellers and buyers should be banned indefinitely. The reason they aren't, is because the company loses money when they ban their customers...
This situation is a double-edged turd. Someone gets shit on, no matter what you do. If gold sellers/buyers didn't exist, then it wouldn't be a problem.
Comments
It's illegal in game. Give all parties the in-game death penalty. Aka, delete their characters. The buyers and the RMT. Ok, I guess buyers being deleted may be harsh, but they cheated in a MMO. It should be at least a month ban.
You would think this is common sense for game companies, but most skimp out on their GMs, they don't care, GM's aren't proactive. Really, only F2P games barely have an excuse because they can keep making free accounts, but really if the GMs kept it up (If there were any) then it wouldn't happen.
I think it's also party of the duty of a GM to be motivated enough to ban the bots instead of them playing Mr popular with the suckups in game (Which I sometimes see). Maybe this means actually screening GM applicants and weeding out people who want the job because they can play a video game for work and letting people in who actually care about the online game communities. Kind of like Silver Knight/Crimson knights in .hack, just without the huge egos and the power trips.
These RMT organizations have gotten big and rich, thanks to companies like NCSoft, who don't give a damn if bots are playing or not. Along with companies that go through the motions and ban bots when there's a forum uproar, but then do nothing after people quiet down and the bots return.
No, I don't think gold selling should be a crime.
I think it should be taxed or have some sort of currency transaction fee associated with it. Because if you don't, you could--theoretically--sell bazookas and RPGs to terrorists for WoW gold, and not be subject to prosecution as an arms trafficker.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I see your point there.. but now with GW2 they technically are selling gold in a way so technically the gold sellers are potentially taking money from them and as a non sub based game it's one of their main sources of revenue.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
yes same as it's illegal to buy pirated copies of video games.. usually the punishment is worse for the supplier than the buyer as with most things
Off topic, but telling to say the least, whats your stance on Amendment 64?
been for legalization of marijuana for years.. honestly think alcohol is much worse overall
I think it's unfortunate that the common cry is for legalization as opposed to decriminalization; small steps.
It is not illegal to sell currency in video games. That is a croc...
illegal is a pretty stupid word. fraud is illegal, yet our entire country as well as many others are in complete turmoil because of endless amounts of fraud, with endless amounts of proof of the fraud and very little convictions or consequences.
then you have the war on drugs. making things illegal often makes them more profitable.
in a perfect world, yes .. gold sellers (not farmers, the title of your post just flat out sucks. I farm gold, but don't sell it) .. should be in prison. never going to happen tho.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
True. On the other hand the account they are using is probably stolen. I don't know what, if any law that falls under. If they bought the game, but are not playing withing the rules, the only thing that can be done is ban them, that's what you do to "cheaters".
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
I haven't played GW2 yet, but if the developers of the code/game are selling gold, then that IMO lowly opinion anyway that actually could be considered illegal for the above reasons.
It would be interesting to see if that would hold up in a challenge, but I think they have a better shot at winning than in a game where they weren't selling gold.
you buy gems in GW2.. gems can be converted to gold and ingame gold can be converted to gems.. so it's not technically gold they sell but still a way to buy gold for money.. so yea I'd agree it should be considered illegal in GW2's case
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yes, Because our Prisons are not already overcrowded and Police overworked and freedoms totally comprimised as it is. =/
Let them police their own industry and interests. Let the court system deal with criminals.
Remember Old School Ultima Online
It's not against the law, but it is against an individual companies guidelines, namely their EULA. Game companies can go after anyone who breaks these rules. For small time deals like an account sale, they generally don't care (not worth the time or money), but they reserve the right to serve litigation against those who habitually violate their rules, specifically, gold farmers & account hackers (stealers).
So it's not against the law to sell currency, but it is a break in a contractual agreement between the company and the user, which leads to someone being sued. This is why MMO companies take gold selling sites to court and (sometimes) win (Blizzard did this many times). Court details are generally interesting, because a gold seller is asked where they got the currency they sold.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
In the music industry, copyright is infringed when IP is stolen, not just because one's activities cause a loss of revenue.
The activities that can cause revenue loss are many... but a dude stealing gold from another's account is not infringing anyone's ability to earn revenue, the game company already has it via box and/or sub.
cop·y·right? [kop-ee-rahyt]
1.
the exclusive right to make copies, license, and otherwise exploit a literary, musical, or artistic work, whether printed, audio, video, etc.: works granted such right by law on or after January 1, 1978, are protected for the lifetime of the author or creator and for a period of 50 years after his or her death.
*****************
tl;dr: There is no parallel. To often users toss out terms or ideas they don't fully understand, such as threatening to inform the BBB; which is met by educating them that the BBB is in fact a scam.
what if the game developers sell gold ingame as part of their revenue?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
As in the case with GW2?
You have to understand that any team of lawyers considering legal action always consider the loss/benefit factors when pursuing a suit.
The numbers would have to be through the roof before a team was assembled to tackle a legitimate threat to revenue because of gold sellers.
It is more cost efficient to have game admins and IT ban accounts and IP's.
And even if, playing devil's advocate, Anet or anyone else suffered revenue loss it is still not an infringement of copyright.
It's scamming, hacking, cyber terrorism (I kid), but whatever it is, IP was not affected.
in red. gold stealing doesn't infringe on anyone .. except the victim. Given enough victims, the game will see a serious drop in customer activity. If the victims can be diminished, still there is a problem of all that money that went into securing this game. Money that was supposed to be spent in content updates.
A game companies revenue might not be immediately affected, but it will be.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
ha! agree with that
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Sorry dude, you know who the victims are, folks who practice bad computer hygiene and folks who seek out gold selling outfits in the first place.
They actually give them their email & click on emails from the gold sellers, the list goes on of how they compromise themselves and make the problem worse in the first place by buying gold.
I totally agree, that is why I said it is not illegal to sell in game currency as a business, only a stupid contractual agreement between the user and the game IP. To be honest they don't ban anyone for buying in game currencies anymore that is hoax... They turn a blind eye I buy currency in every game I have ever played and will ever play.
It is against the rules of the game yes, and yes that does break EULA.
However whlie courts have upheld some EULA's in some jurisdictions
http://www.google.ca/search?q=are+eula's+legally+binding&rls=com.microsoft:en-ca:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&redir_esc=&ei=l75wUKDULeahiAKZzICAAQ
others other been struck down in other jurisdictions
http://herochat.com/forum/index.php?topic=243806.0
One reason is due to an inherently unfair nature of the EULA, that being that often the customer doesn't have the ability to inspect the eula before purchasing the product.
Also breach of contract is not criminal.
http://www.criminal-law-lawyer-source.com/terms/contract.html
It's interesting that in Blizzards suit against IGE, they stated nothing about loss of income, which was probably smart, but talked specifically about the gold sellers calculated decision to reap substantial profits by knowingly interfering with and substantially impairing the intended use and enjoyment associated with consumer agreements between blizzard and subscribers to its virtual world called World of Warcraft."
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/72346-IGE-Sued-By-World-Of-Warcraft-Player
Trying to find what the results of that were. Hmm it appears it was settled, darn it.
http://virtuallyblind.com/2008/08/27/hernandez-ige-settles/
why cuz doesnt go with YOUR believes?
Voted "No, but gold farmers are immoral."
I don't believe the act should be illegal according to the government. However, I do believe the act should be punishable by the company who runs the game.
Gold sellers and buyers should be banned indefinitely. The reason they aren't, is because the company loses money when they ban their customers...
This situation is a double-edged turd. Someone gets shit on, no matter what you do. If gold sellers/buyers didn't exist, then it wouldn't be a problem.