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What bugs me about GW2 how it's combat makes me feel weak
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
in Guild Wars 2
Tbh, GW2 did a LOT of things good, but what it DIDNT do good is combat and classes. I never felt so WEAK in any other MMO before. When I am not lolcoptering around the mob like a frightened rabbit, I am DED DED DED. I hate that about GW2. The idea that you CAN evade attacks, which is per se good, transformed into you MUST evade every attack. It became another MUST from an idea that was good as OPTION. And so I spent my time running around like a scared rabbit and feeling very, very unheroic. That really nags me in GW2.
Just my 2ct about combat. 
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
? What class did you play? As a level 80 guardian (And a rather glass cannony one too, my power and precision are FAR higher than my defensive stats), I find I can toe to toe with almost every single non-veteran mob in the game, all the way up to Orr and Lost Shores. Including mobs in dungeons
... and a lot of veterans too. No need to jump around when you soak the weak hits, and use aegis/blind to ignore the big hits.
... and that's without being a particularly well armored build.
Are you a really squishy class or something?
I dont feel the fact that your character is a bit vulnerable makes you unheroic.Youre just a hero in a bit more realistic terms.I find it to be refreshing in contrast to all the other mmo's.
I take it from the 'lolcopter' comment, you are refferring to a thief.
Did you know while using Death blossum, you are completely invuln? Make your build around that, increase your initiative, and pick a defense stat to add into your armor (Vitality/toughness) Vitality if you are level 80, condition damage occurs much more often than when leveling. when leveling a thief i go for toughness.
You cant let them hit you. Ever. You should Steal into battle, Death blossum until out of initiative, use "Roll for Initiative" to both give you distance once more, and to refresh your initiative for when you swap to pistol pistol and unload. circle around until the bleeds finish them off.
One of the easier classes, imo
The Deep Web is sca-ry.
Sans Necro I played all to 20 at least.
Warrior and Vanguard are LESS squishy. But every other class BAM DED BAM DED AGAIN. Ok, mostly in WvW. But in PVE it's also that all classes beside Van and War are CIRCLE CIRCLE CIRCLE RUN RUN RUN around the mob. This feels so... HUMILIATING. I never saw Gandalf circle around some stupid rat or wolf!
I played mage classes and thief classes before. In other MMOs I never felt so vulnerable, if I take EQ2, WOW and LOTRO, which I played a longer time, relatively speaking. In these MMOs I could STAND in a place.
When I first heard the idea you can evade attacks, it sounded like a nice option. Little did I realize it would become a mandatory MUST EVADE. Yeah you can tell me 1000 times "YOUR DOING IT WRONG". You know I played plenty of MMOs. But I tell you I never ever felt so damn weak. Ok, I managed to get Warrior to 80 which was alright. But all other classes. No. Just no. And I don't like to play Vanguard, cause it's too much like Warrior. Minus weapons diversity.
Sigh. I really would love to play GW2 more. Despite shortcomings. But this goddamn squishiness and "circle around your enemy" feeling sooooo makes me feel sad and weak.
I realize how I swap between my chars now every 20 minutes, thining, ok maybe NOW this class is better than I had in memory. But... nah. 
(
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You are a thief buddy. You are the definition of squishy. you HAVE to keep moving, stay out of their melee range. they aren't going to wait for you to come back, they are coming after you!
I've leveled all classes to 80, and rerolled a couple to make them Asura(Asura master race), thief being one.
Follow my little tip guide i just posted, and you WONT GET HIT by most normal attacks. You have to play to your strengths.
I'm not one to scream" YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" but if you want to stand in melee range and feel strong as a thief, you are doing it wrong. it's not how it's designed. You should play warrior in that case( my fav class)
And i can even post my build for that if you like. Trying to help ya and not just go 'lolnoob l2p"
The Deep Web is sca-ry.
I disagree and I certainly don't think standing still makes me feel any different either.
I apologize for this off-topic statement but I can't help it. I am starting to think that it was GW2 that broke up with Elikal. I mean this sounds an awful lot like that person that can't let the one that dumped them go. in an effort to make you feel better, I will do what any good friend would do.
Hey everyone, did you know that MMO called GW2? It's a whore. No really, it messed around with a bunch of my friends over at MMORPG.
My dude, didn't you just post your 2 cent about the game not to long ago, and I swear I saw combat bein talked about.
I hope I was seeing things, and if I was then hey that's fine by me lol.
Oh and combat is pretty good in this game, part of the reasons I still play, I love games with great gameplay, GW2 is one of them unfortunately(yes I said it).
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
which is why the warrior is the most played class in the game lol
I REALLY wanted to like this game. Seriously. Wonderful world, nice setting... so many good ideas in the details. But it appals me. I just CAN NOT play it. I tried all classes, but everytime I feel like a stupid dork. I fumble aroud and nothing, nothing works out. I keep dying way too much. Guardian, Elementalist, Thief, Ranger. Tried them all and ... this game is.... just too difficult for me. It OVERWHELMS me with rolling, and flipping around and everything.
*sob*
(
I played Warrior to 80. So yeah. But every other class. Simply doesn't work.
Thief, Ele: ONE HIT killed.
Ranger: enemy players IGNORE pet and TWO HIT KILL
Necro: stupid mass of useless pets
Guardian: Only close combat works, so root root root and DED
Mesmer halfway works, but I never see it does any damage. I just don't see I make much impact. @__@
This game has combat just... wrong. Well, at least for me. I really would like to like it, but is simply PWNS ME. In GW2 game defeats me. In WOW or LOTRO or EQ2, people have to STAND to fight. Here they can RUN and fight, and thats just one thing too much for me to handle.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
After readin the second page, I'm starting to think your on to something here.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
No. The reality I must face is, that I am probably simple not good at games that require even the most remote sort of "reaction timing". I never was, and after 20 years of gaming I didnt get a TAD better at it. In Everquest reaction time didn't play any bigger role. But in "new RPGs" alas it does.
I never could solve "timed reaction puzzles" for instance either, even if my life would depend on it, there simply is a delay between eyes, brain and hands, and the moment my finger press the right button the situation has already changed.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Ahhh okay, I see what your saying now.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
What you could do is tell us what type of playstyle you'd like to have on any of your toons and maybe the more experienced here will help you with a build. From my limit experience of 18 levels on a Warrior you have to decide how you want to play your toon, so some research into what styles are available goes a long way, I'm putting points into Strength, Vit, with traits in Strength & Tactics so I can improve my support boons and banners and while they are up I can jump into the fray and add some DPS and vwith a big health pool from Vit I can take some damage, (also carry some food for those big encounters) at first I was dying nearly everytime I was hit but that still doesn't mean I can stay in one spot and go toe to toe you have to get out of the way regularly. If I'm solo I can swap out the banners and boons and put in signets to help me get some extra bonus'. This is the first new MMO for a while for me where I'm forced to actually think about what build will be most effective, otherwise I just die and have to hope to get a rez or get out of my downed state and thats not fun, and at 80 its will be about about perfecting that build.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
I almost always put points in my defensive abilities.
Let me tell you a story. I was running with various toons, Ele, Engi, Guardians, all between 22 and 30, in WvW. Many times I ran with one or two others, and Thief caught us. ONE thief who regularly managed to kill 2-3 of us at the same time. So, I though, ok I have a lv 32 Thief too. So I whupped up Sword+Dagger and Pistol + Dagger and took ALL my stealth abilities. And went into the field.
Next I walk from Greenbriar to Dreaming Bay, where our Zerg was. You see, I see this large, open plain before me. No enemy wide and far. I look behind over this wide and open plain. No enemy wide and far, and suddenly, halfway to the gate someome jumps at me from behind. My health goes DOWN 80-90% with ONE stroke, I am stunne and... dead. WHERE did he come from? Nirvana? Netherland? I do not know. SO often I die in endless godsforsaken stun.
Thinking of it, I die in MMOs 90% of the time because of stuns. Multiple stuns. You know I passionately, vividly hate stun. I use the word HATE extra in connection to the word STUN. I know there must be a skill to break stun. I even have it equipped. BUT in that ONE second I have to escape stun, I panic and it takes me THREE seconds to recall which button stun actually WAS, so of course I am dead. Even in those times I somehow escape stun, the initiative attack gets me down to 20% of health in the blink of an eye and he is still 100% so I can FORGET the matter.
I really wish people could follow me with a camera. I mean, yeah they prolly have a lots of laughs, but maybe someone could teach me what I am doing wrong. Because after years of MMO-PVPing I really, seriously and totally DO NOT GET IT. It's like I am deaf and you try to explain me music. I read dozens of PVP guides. I try to adapt as best as my feeble mind allows. But in the end it always boils down that I TOTALLY and FREACKINGLY PANIC like a 5 year old girl seeing a Tarantula.
OMG OMG OMG HE IS ATTACKING ME
I AM STUNNED GHAAAAAAH
WHAT CAN I DOOOO HAAALP...
like this.
After every SWTOR warzone of 5-10 minutes, when I forget to shut down the action music I almost die of adrenaline poisoning, my vision gets blurry and I need to keep my head under a cold shower!
That's the problem.
That and I hate losing. I bite into the table, I smash dishes and cry in anger and take out voodoo dolls looking like my fellow players, because dying pisses me off. Every time.
There. Thats all.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The Necro is one of the most durable, classes.... you literally get a second health bar.
Not only that but it is one of the best classes at weakening enemies and has pretty darn good AoE. With some minions, I can take on 4+ mobs 1 or 2 levels above me with relative ease.
Try making smart of your skills (e.g. fears, death shroud, minions, etc) because player characters are not weak at all.
Umm what? Aside from a few things like a dragon falling on you, most of the avoidable attacks are pretty forgiving. You can either avoid it or use a heal afterwards. And honestly, why shouldnt you be avoiding attacks? The idea that you are so powerful that you can stand in the way of fire, poison or falling debris is just rediculous. Most of these things would kill you indescriminantly, no matter how good a fighter you had become. The good fighters would have avoided the attacks....
Also lots of people complain that you dont get more powerful in the game, you most certainly do. My level 80 Mesmer is like a bulldozer to anything under level 40. Too much so, it ruins the gameplay of me helping out low level friends because they cant get any hits off before the mobs are dead.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
So this shows you have no idea what you're talking about, really...
Ranger can be played rather easy and it's not that easy to kill a ranger if he has his weapons set up right to suit his traits.
I'm playing a ranger as a main and it rocks in PvE and W3 (PvP I don't play so much but it's good as well, only difference is you have to be more tanky here since your pet only serves for additional condition damage - nothing more).
Guardian is hard to kill if you know how to play it. It's one of the tankiest classes in GW2... There is more than a few guardians in my guild which can just stand against a boss and dps him without taking much damage.. But it requires a lot of skill.
etc. etc...
If you feel weak it's because your skills/traits/weapons don't support each other good enough.. Consider changing a few things to make your build coherent. I know I was feeling weak with my ranger at first when I hit 80... But after a while some things became clearer and it was easy to setup a right build for my play style.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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Play the mesmer that you like half, because i assume that you also only take it to half of max. And the mesmer first begins to shine after lvl 40 when it gets its traits lines working for it.
And with clone when dodging trait, you will get so much respite that my quess is that your relationship to the game will change again
Really depends on what class you're playing, and how. That's the problem w/ more skill based games, if you're used to ones that are more gear-oriented. You can't really rely on a class itself to automatically make you strong.
Aside from bosses & PvP, I find myself rarely having to dodge, tbh. Many of the classes have built in evasion with their attacks. Some of the other classes can literally just soak up hits and not give 2 craps. The most obvious of these would be guardian / necro.
It really does come down to how you play. If you want to feel heroic, then build yourself up to actually be heroic. Personally, I find it way more satisfying when i feel heroic as a direct result of my own actions, and not because i have the magic underpants of +5 overpoweredness. Take a hard, critical look at how you've built your character. Ask yourself what your character's weaknesses are, what their strengths are, and how you could perhaps balance the two more effectively.
For example, on my warrior, he's mostly glass cannon, but a few points into defense has made the difference for him between being the guy on my team that constantly runs in and dies and the guy who can take hits like a champ without having to worry too much about it. Some fights I can even get away w/ just standing on the boss spamming 100 blades, and it's really satisfying to down a boss in a few seconds after only a few 25k dmg 100blades procs.
Heck, I've also had quite a few fights where I'm basically taking all the hits for the group as my ele. It's all in how you play.
You can't expect to go into every encounter with the same mindset as you're probably used to OP. Mobs have different special attacks, some of which are really unforgiving if you expect to just stand there and dps.
What mobs were you fighting?
What weapons were you using?
I personally enjoy the fact that every mob my level can hand me my ass at any time if I'm slacking. I understand that a lot of people won't though.
I got a 80 warrior, and a few other higher leveled characters, where as I do also find the elementalist extremely squishy, I'm not really sure as to how a dual dagger, or atleast main hand dagger Elementalist is supposed to be viable, as the DPS isnt really enough at close range, where you'd see a warrior with a GS (pure dps and lots of mobility) just tearing through things, though I guess warriors might be a bit OP in that sense.
I really love the game and the combat, though some things do make me wonder.
Same for mesmers, and AoE, or fighting multiple enemies, can take quite a while solo xD