Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Single Player games passing MMOs?
chryses
Member UncommonPosts: 1,453
9 years ago when I found MMO's I thought single player games were dead and gone and I would never look back.
I really feel that the single player games being released to date (on all platforms) are really pushing boundaries and from my own personal experience, nearly all my hard core MMO gamer mates have migrated back to the single player market.
Main reasons:
- MMO's are just not evolving fast enough. Too many cookie cutters
- Hype versus payoff. Unfortunately for the past 5 years not one game has lived up to their hype WAR, SWTOR, Vanguard, AoC list goes on...
- Dumbing down of genre from the true RPG throw back to the D&D paper based gaming etc. Crafting is watered down alongside exploration etc.
Single Player Games
- Have gone through several evolution steps for all platforms, graphics and sound.
- Story lines have been developed and supported by in-depth extensive worlds
- online capabilities that still allow for co-op, multi player, score boards etc.
- Immersion is incredible.
I would consider myself a hardcore MMO lover but for the past year I have only played MMO games in between single player titles e.g. Modern Warfare 4, Red Dead Remption, Far Cry 3 now (incredible game), XCOM, Skyrim, Civ 5.
Maybe its a time/age thing but it seems myself and ALL my friends are returning back to single player games, table top and board games for the interaction. We all play MMO's still but we are all really in a holding pattern waiting to see when they will evolve past their current form and most of us are losing interest fast.
Either way I feel single player games are leading the way in development and MMO's are just not keeping up.
Comments
MMOs are simply stagnating right now. Know quite a few that have left and are now playing other genres of gaming due to this.
Many of them still enjoy the multiplayer aspect in their game of choice.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I can totally agree and relate to what you have exposed. MMO game market needs to evolve somehow if it wants to recover it's quality.
The problem here is that they don't want to do it. They are fine releasing shitty games that people will play for some weeks/months, because those games are cheap to produce and a "low risk" inversion.
It's pretty much the same trouble as with anything else out there nowadays: they give us cheap, low-medium quality products, because they realized two things:
1)Lots of people will use/buy/rent them anyway, because they can't afford something more expensive.
2)If they don't give us more options, we can only: a)get what they give us, or b)don't get anything at all.
Reality is always a sad thing...
I find two reasons single-player games are surpassing MMO's:
#1. Building a gaming community no longer requires gamers to be in the same game. It's very easy to connect with other gamers regardless of what they are playing. Social media has made connecting with gamers simple and easy. This simply wasn't the case when MMO's first hit the scene. If you wanted to find a community of gamers, you had to all be in the same game.
#2. MMO's are simply too risky to try anything amazing. I hate to say it, but indie games are kicking the pants off of AAA when it comes to creativity and experimentation. Indie MMO's are few and far between simply because it's too expensive and way too much manpower is needed to pull them off. Most indie MMO's struggle with overhead and long term viability.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
single player games arnt passing MMOs.
MMOs are going backwards, every new mmo that comes out has more resitrction, more linear paths, more story told to you instead of you makeing your own story as you go. they are more dumbed down than ever, and honestly they are just single player games with a bunch of people either in your way or running around doing their own ( story quest ) with no need to interact with them.
when i first started in MMOs back in 2000, i thought damn i cant wait to see how much they progress in 10 years its going to be awsome.... boy was i wrong, it has gone backwards at a alarming rate.
I kinda get what the OP is saying.
Honestly, I have had a lot of fun with MMOs. The most fun Ive ever had with any game was with FFXI CoP xpac. But some of my tastes have changed, and while im not opposed to themeparks, im not fully on board with sandboxes. There are bits of both that I find attractive. To say nothing of my time being more limited with each passing year (not a family man, just increasing responsibility at work). Add to that having to deal with stupid, rude, or people who have insane ideas that are completely self destructive to a game (looking at you FFXIV Lodestone Tanaka defense force >.> yeesh) And then there are games that could be so aweome if not for the fascination of PvP in mmos (more have some form then not)
Doesnt really matter, Ive been waiting for (LOL) my "perfect" mmo. Yea yea I know, laugh it up. Im sure some of my ideas for an MMO would offend both sandbox and themepark players alike such as: no pvp ever, crafting and gathering with no economy at all (you want shit? kill for it or make it your damn self), etc.
The fact is that perfect mmo will never come, the mmo market has become "popular" and most businesses cant afford to cater to my nonsense. So you try to find a game that is interesting enough and has enough pros to outweigh the cons, and you shut the fuck up and enjoy your game.
That being said, if anyone ever came out with a game like oblivion/skyrim, and supported it for years with frequent content updates, and not just a handful of DLC, and allowed multiple players to join you on your world. I would gladly pay a subscription fee for many years. Play solo most of the time, and party up when friends can.
However, that isnt likely to happen. Sometimes people say go play a single player RPG, and they are fun for a time. But its not like an MMO that I can play for years, because there is no social aspect/comradery and the game "ends"
CoS does sound like the closest thing ive seen to this, BUT I dont really believe they can pull it off. Plus there are a few things I learned for there forums that Im not sure I like or straight up hate.
I don't think there's a problem with pvp (there was until recently)
But the likes of gw2 and ps2 and hopefully soon dfuw have brought back dynamic fun pvp
But mmo pve has gotten very stale and seems stuck in the same vein of EQ from many years ago. Pve needs to evolve, it lacks compared to many single player games, probably because we are so used to it by now.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I agree that MMORPGs have gone backwards since WoW and now half the games being developed aren't even finished when they are released anymore that I don't understand.
Nope, they aren't.
Well, not entirely. The "bitter vets" on this site who post their myopic views of the MMORPG industry tend to answer "yes" to the OP's question. However, I imagine for most non-jaded gamers (which is the majority of gamers), MMOs are doing just fine.
Personally, I've been playing computer games since the early 80s, but I haven't touched a single-player game since I logged into my first MMO over a decade ago. Playing single-player games is like masturbation: playing by yourself can be ok, but once you play with others, there is no going back. (Well, unless you have don't have internet access, that is.)
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days
Don't agree at all. While I don't think mmos are failing by any means not everyone that has left is bitter or somehow jaded as you seem to think.
Many of them still do multiplayer in their game of choice just in a different genre.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I'm playing EVE and some WoW right now. I also play TSW every now and then.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days
Perhaps I was a little harsh. But it often seems that most of the people who post on this site have a very narrow, and jaded, view of MMORPGs and their current state. I think that 2012 was a banner year for MMORPGs, so I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with many of the people here.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days
I would have to disagree with you OP. There have been far too many great single player RPGs to come out in the last 9 years.
Dragons Age Origins.
Oblivion.
Fallout 3.
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Knights of the Old Republic (2003) & 2
Baldurs Gate 2
Final Fantasy 10
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Pretty much agree, MMO's have become totally boring, and It's hard to get excited for any of them anymore.
All this hype never delivers, and I'm tired of the lack of progression in MMO's, they're all the same.
Rather then MMO's I've been looking for Co-Op games, 2-3-4 player, co-op campaigns or missions, anything.
At least it gives me some variety, even the "revolutionary games" like guild wars 2, really improve little on the base concept of MMO for the past years.
Go play an elder scrolls game, any of them. When i first played one back in like 2000 or 2001, it felt exactly like an 'offline mmo' of the time, just with out people and different combat mechanics. I remember thinking that this was pretty much an offline mmo.
If you compare them to modern day mmos you see where they are lacking. Modern mmos are much more linear, are much more focused on creating repetitive endgame content and getting the player to it quickly and effortlessly than fleshing out a vast living world to exist in.
EVE is a world to exist in. Most mmos arent anymore.
If games like Skyrim were to add a multiplayer function to the game officially, I would agree. However, there are still many single player games being made to this day without any form of multiplayer support (which boggles my mind). The overwhelming surge of social media the past decade will only help mmos in the long run.
When CoH came out, I had made statements that this type of mmo would be seen more widely in the marketplace. MMOs created to keep folks entertained for 2-3 month stints at a time. However, where I guessed wrong was that publishers would develop and release many of these types of mmos over similar time spans and have tiered subscription models to allow access to multiple games at the same time.
Developers really need to understand their fanbase better, and create a game with them in mind. For far too long we have been fed WoW-like clones of games, and games that are released in unfinished states. I don't believe we're going to see a ton of relief from kickstarter mmos (we will see more innovation at least).
Hell, even as good as GW2 is, the game still has a ton of flaws and is far from perfect.
Great argument there - your mates no longer play MMOs therefore MMO market is dying.
Seriously...
It is the opposite. The market evolved, you and your mates did not therefore they are left with no games fitting their appeal and why they moved on.
I guess it is a part of that comes with maturity/aging - you start thinking how past times were great and today sucks. All subjective illusion tho...
People mostly do not like changes.
Single player games have always led the way and will always lead the way. There's more control over the scene which means the graphics can be better and environments richer. There's more control over each step of the story which means storylines can be personalized and deeper.
MMOs are a social, multiplayer platform. That is where they excel. Basically,
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If that was true, there would be no players spending money on these games, which isn't the case as it is proven by rapidly growing MMO market in past years.
What changes? The change from "hardcore" to casual. People indeed want games, not worlds.
This pretty much proves my point and demonstrates how some people are unable to accept changes... MMOs did evolve, just not in your desired direction, it is still evolution tho.
WoW wasn't finished - JEEZ - I guess we are looking through rose-colored glasses. WoW had the EXACT same type of release that D3 did - people coudln't log in, the game had huge bugs, etc.
Please - let's not have a revisionist history - WoW's released was one of the most flawed ever.
And you're doing the exact opposite. Blizzard, at that time, underestimated it's fanbase, which resulted in queues and latency problems.
Content-wise, however.....yeah.
They even had
Unable to login
Loot stuck bug
Missing warlock talents
Missing hunter talents
Charge through microscopic crack in the floor and end up in space bug
Server crash with too many people in same area
When they launched in the eu 6 months later, lord only knows how bad the usa launch was.
P.s. they still had loot stuck, charge into space and server crash with crowding bugs AFTER burning crusade when I quit.
The blizzard make polished games with very little bugs Is a huge myth, supported by their Apple like fanatical fan base.
SPs evolved right way. They are both themepark and sandbox. You can follow your primary quest from A to B and enjoy your ride or you can take longer road, the game doesn't care when or how you get to next part.
While quest in MANY MMOs become way too linear from A to B and there nothing in between but farm/grind. Not to mention how brainless quests has become, not only they tell what to do, they show where and even walk you in to that spot.
I bet many saw something similar too often:
"Hey HERO! Kill 10 rabbits for me and I give you this amazing sword! They are right behind my back!"
"Oh thanks you HERO! Now gather 10 apples from that tree 2 meters away form me and I give you this amazing armor!"
"Amazing HERO!I knew you could do it! Now go kill that annoying pumpkin monster in my garden and you will be rewarded!"
"Oh HERO! I can't thank you enough! Take this gold and this scroll, use it to get to my brother in next village so you can do same S****T OVER AGAIN!
There some MMOS started some changes: TSW,GW2,MO,DF,TERA,Rappelz, Wizardry, Dragon Nest,Wurm etc which involved combat,questing,crafting etc etc. It might be as perfect as it is for some,could be flawed for others,but imo it is good changes which might inspire more dev to make a better version.
There are over one hundred of themepark MMOs out there from niche-indie to big AAA. And how many sandboxes? Can we gather 20? And biggest and actually oldest of them probably EVE?
"Don't argue with dick-heads, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"
The "polished" term became popular because WoW was so polished at release. Stability and content-wise, it was one of the best releases in MMO history. Its major problem was hundreds of thousands of players (soon to be millions of players) flocking to the game. Their biggest error was under-estimating the quality and broad appeal of what they had created.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre