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MMORPGs; Am I getting old, OR Have they Betrayed me.
Spector88
Member UncommonPosts: 112
When I was in junior high I was playing games like The Realm, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Well of Souls, Independent side scrollers, Runescape, etc.
What I remember about thoughts games in a nostalgic way was, them being games MADE for gamers. That were all unique, and innovative.
What I can't wrap my head around is, have I gotten old and spoiled, lost my love of them. Or have they all become games NOT for gamers, for the casual fan, and a bunch of studio juggernauts trying to make box sales, setting records Diablo III style, but presenting some of the most disappointing end game/content and breaking promises like a mother in a trailer park.
See, I feel like back in the day, games did have integrity, they were trying to make the best games they possibly could, and I'm not sure what happened.
I've bought them all, Tera, Guild Wars 2, Diablo III.
The only games I've thought were pretty good in the past 2-3 years are League of Legends and Path of Exile. If I had to pick ANY MMORPG I think is decent in the past few years I'd say Rift is a decent game, but even that didn't keep my interest for too long.
I played World of Warcraft like many of you, however WoW was never my beginning, or my end, and I feel like it did hurt the industry,
WoW was the McDonalds to our smaller family restaurants, there were more about quality and choice, more divided in style. Now every gamer is some obese dollar menu hype lover.
I don't see any games coming out in 2013 that even intrigue me. I don't see games pushing boundaries or trying to make games more immersive, or more involved community wise, I see a bunch of console like games, that are more linear that a quarter mile race track, trying to force me to do what they want every second I'm logged in. I understand there is exceptions and games that aren't as linear, but they aren't exactly thriving either.
In my opinion the best MMO to date was Asheron's Call, because it was a seamless world, with tons of lore, unique creatures no one else has used, a monarchy/allegiance/patron system, with XP passup based on followers or (people you actually get rewarded to help) not to mention a questing system you can do, or don't do, that doesn't hold your hand. Elemental Weapons (Carrying a weapon of each element type instead of getting 1 cheesy "THE DECAPITATOR" sword, you would need to hunt for many weapons of each element.
--- I just wish Turbine would kickstart a AC2, or that someone would not sell out and make the garbage they are today.
Did anyone else play Guild Wars 2 and vomit? I mean, What was the point. I logged in and was putting out fires and feeding cattle, and had access to everything in the game except skills at level 1? For what, some zergy super choppy lame PvP siege crap? I have a awesome rig, and it still ran like crap. That's todays latest and greatest?
Ugh.
Am I just getting too old for it, or is there no such thing as a solid MMO anymore.
Comments
I would suggest Vanguard. It's pretty tuned up now and has an active dev team behind it. Almost every activity takes longer via more indepth processes so if you have the time it sounds like VG would suit you well.
You're not alone. But as was already mentioned in the previous post, virtual worlds are finished, for now.
We like to think they'll come back, even if there's no sign of it happening yet.
And IMO Vanguard is horrible, so don't feel bad if you long for a virtual world but find Vanguard to be donkey dung.
Im enjoying PS2 for what it is.
I enjoyed leveling in TSW, but the endgame was WOW like and left me cold.
And theres always EVE, thank god.
But yeah modern MMOs don't really do it for me either. I find things like multiplayer minecraft & terraria more "mmoy" and fun.
Yeah these aren't places you can live in anymore.
They are more or less casinos now, without the chance for a payout at the end.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
then just enjoy the leveling content, and quit when you "finish" it.
No game last forever anyway.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
^^ This. I've been playing video games since pong in 70's. I get the same feelings, but while there are plenty of bad games out there, the fact is is that us older players have lost our innocence. Every now and then I go back on a nostalgia trip and play some of the games that I thought were so wonerful back in the day. I find myself thinking often, "Man we put up with a lot of nonsense back then. If you did this in a game today, I take to the driveway and run my car over it." But back then, because it was all fresh and uncharted territory, you easily overlooked that.
There were just as many shit games back then as there are now.
You have a case of bittervet. If you don't like video games as they are right now, stop playing them for awhile. Pretty simple.
Minecraft and terraria as mentioned.
Hotline Miami, legend of grim rock, fly'n, ftl.
But year most of the big budget games are a bot too adhd, trying to be a film rather than a game, a bit too hand holding and checking off lists of achievements for my liking. With the odd exception like skyrim & dishonoured.
You aren't to old for it, they just don't make MMO's like they use to.
I'll second the Vanguard suggestion if you haven't played it. Yes, the release was a terrible and buggy mess, but it seems to have come a long way since then. It's free, so at most you end up wasting an evenings worth of time to see if you like it.
Also AC2, but it sounds like you've already tried it.
It's probably a little of both.
Part of it for older gamers is nastalgia -and-
-Part of it, as MMO's have become more popular, you see trends.
When MMO's were new, each MMO was breaking new ground, Now games are built on foundation of the older games.
As a result, after you have played one MMO, (Or two) You have seen the basics and each new MMO doesn't really drastically add new content so it all starts feeling old.
Some MMO's are trying, they are turning away from the Tab Targeting, action bar combat, going with skill based progression instead of leveling based progression, GW2 tried going without a trinity and there are a few Sandbox MMO's on the horizon that break the current themepark trend.
But still, if you have played one Theme Park or one Sandbox, the next one you play will probably be about the same, just with better graphic and a slightly updated UI.
Who knows, maybe an MMO will surprise me one day, hope so.
Well 1) All of the 4 games you mentioned in your first paragraph are still running. So you can still play the games that you liked.
2) Turbine just reopened AC2 so I think you mean kickstart an AC3.
The thing that always amazes me is people will say "Why doesn't Turbine make an AC3, I loved AC1 so much!!" Well AC1 is still there (and so is AC2 now) so you can still play them. If your response is "Well the graphics/UI are old", then gameplay isn't what you're actually after so you can't really complain about games not having quality gameplay.
Personally I haven't like a new MMO in at least 6 years. But that is the very reason I still play the old ones and that is why many other do too.
So the best thing I can suggest to you is go play those older MMOs you loved. You will get the experience you are looking for and it sends a message to the new MMOs that they're doing it wrong. If everyone keeps buying every new MMO so that the companies keep selling millions of copies out the gate, the companies will keep making new MMOs in the same way. If everyone goes back and subs to the old MMOs and don't buy the new ones, it will let companies know they have to change their approach.
"This may come as a surprise, but despite your earlier beliefs, you are not the center of the world. These games are not made for you, specifically. They never were. So do us a solid and cut the victim routine"
- I guess that's why MMORPG's are thriving and all the latest releases aren't being flamed into the grown. Kinda hard to bash me for being the center of the world, when each big release is met with disappointment.
1) was not aware AC2 was reopened, that might be fun.
2) Yes I meant AC3.
3) I've come back to AC several times most recently 3 months ago, including have tried to get people to come back, the gameplay itself is fine, and the UI/Graphics don't bother me. The dead population does. If 500-1000 people were still online and at the keyboard daily. I would play AC gladly. They aren't. I already have 275 chars, augs, etc, its not the same without PEOPLE, AC is no longer an MMO, its a ORPG.
So if gamers kept playing the old ones and stopped buying the new ones, companies would start making new ones like the old ones... Makes sense to a degree.
(The only problem, gamers have such a wide variety of taste that getting gamers to do something is like herding cats)
And that there is exactly the problem of the later generations of MMO in terms of why they are shallow and don't last.
Once upon a time, mmos was designed to be perpetual and be-all end-all of gaming in mind, like that of Ulitma Online, Everquest and pre-NGE SWG.
Nowadays mmos are designed to be a quick money grab in a lot of cases - and WoW's introduction, and subsequent games continuation of the "Total Themepark" ideology somewhat contributed to this (it is much easier to grab money through a themepark setup as it is immediately accessible to new players and also that it ends, most importantly. Sandbox doesn't end and it doesn't provide anything if players don't spend time to "live the game")
MMORPG's are thriving, and the industry has done nothing but show signs of growth. In 2010, the global MMO market was worth $6 billion. I imagine it has only gone up since then. Your argument is baseless and nothing more than an overemotional response to your own personal problems with the genre as it currently is.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2010-08-11-mmorpg-revenue-to-grow-60-percent-this-year
yeah but thats more to do with more people having access to high speed internet.
Look at the sucess of games like Wow and counterstrike. They launched just at the right time when broadband started taking off in Europe and North America
This current crop is more to do with an increase in potential players due to better internet infrastructure in places like China and South America imo.
MMORPG's are thriving, and the industry has done nothing but show signs of growth. In 2010, the global MMO market was worth $6 billion. I imagine it has only gone up since then. Your argument is baseless and nothing more than an overemotional response to your own personal problems with the genre as it currently is.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2010-08-11-mmorpg-revenue-to-grow-60-percent-this-year..
Since when does revenue = reception, longevity, or review of a game?
Perfect example. Financially Diablo III was one of the biggest successes of all time,
By virtually ever review/thousands of fans across the world it has been a huge disappointment, they have pushed PvP back indefinately, and the launch was terrible.
Just because they're making money, does not mean they are having longevity success, or that the fan base is happy.
You are taking profit as sheer success, it may be for the companies, but not for the players.
Tera, GW2, SWTOR, and every big game has lost most of his subs/player base within 90 days of release.
MMO's are not being nearly as successful as they can be.
Please prove to me otherwise. Maybe you work for one of the big developers, so you're happy with how the MMO industry is, but last time I checked, they all weren't doing too hot 90 days +, how's Diablo doing these days? I figure will all them millions of box sales they'd have a huge fan base still going.. Oh wait, no one is playing it, by no one, maybe less than 5% of original box sales.
Also keep in mind a large portion of that is WoW (1 game) and ASIAN MMO's
most of which aren't out in the U.S./Won't be out until they're years old and old news.
So not only are you wrong, but you're looking at a global profit margin which is not a representation of the U.S. market, U.S. products, or actual play value, only sales.
Either way, the industry is growing and thriving, which only means good things for gamers (reasonable ones, anyways.) You can attribute it to whatever you want, but it doesn't change anything. All signs point to positive growth. It's not the doom and gloom that people like to constantly talk about here. The industry isn't dying. The games being made aren't garbage. A new generation of players comes in everyday and enjoys the games being made while the old bitter cynical vets come to MMORPG.com to post about the golden days of MMOs.
edit: More money is the result of more players. Presumably, these people enjoy the games they're paying to play. YOU don't like the games. It doesn't mean the genre is dying, or the games lack longevity. It just happens that's how YOU feel about it. You're attempting to speak on behalf of the entire MMO genre because of trends you see on forums.
OP I know how you feel! Thats why I was so excited about what's happening with RSI / Star Citizen on kickstarter. My hope is high that kickstarter will bring a flood of innovative and independent games with a ok or high standard/quality.
Think a big part of the problem are the publishers, that don't want to risk anything and go for "Wow clones" to get the money in. The other part of the problem is us, the gamers, that buy unfinished games and let them get away with shity products and keep buying their stuff.
It may still take some time, but necessity is the mother of invention!
No, it's not you, newer MMO's today largely follow one main design path, and if you don't care for it you're pretty much out of luck.
But that said, there seems to be some bright spots on the horizon, so keep your eyes open and perhaps one day one of these titles will really suprise and please us.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EQ mac + [pc , login) from rerolled.org. FTW
Classic Everquest as it gets. only real mmo that still exists.... and yes i've played them all . got 5 lvl 80's on gw2 etc etc....
Now take a look at how many people have made such a comment on different internet forums, probably thousands at this point. If everyone of them actually stuck around (and invited their friends) then there'd be more people which would increase the likelyhood of the next one to stick around, which would increase... and on and on.
That's the funny thing about MMO gamers. There are a ton who comment everyday how they want the old, but then don't play the old. Tons of them say it is because there aren't enough others playing, when if everyone who said that played... there'd be a ton playing. A ton of the others say the graphics or UI is too old, then they complain that games with fresh cutting edge graphics and UIs are no fun. Well do you want to be focused on gameplay or on eye candy? Sure, you can say both, but for a certain large section of the MMO gamerbase there isn't a game that has both the gameplay and the cutting edge graphics.
I also have no problems of finding people to play with in AC. The most common thing I hear is people want to just bump into hundreds of other people as they move around. The problem is AC is a truly massive place. With housing, and allegiance/general chat, there are very few reasons to sit in a town like the old days. If you do go to town for something you are typically there for less than a minute and there are a lot of towns in AC. It doesn't take much to get into an active allegiance and then you'd be surprised how often you are chatting with and running quests with others. Hell, there is a complaint on the main forums right now because there is a quest that you can do once every 2 weeks. On one server they bring 5 full fellows along each time to do it and the boss at the end only drops 9 trophies so they have to sit around for the respawns and want it to be faster. In other words, you can find plenty of people to play with.
I just point all of this out because over the many years that I've read these forums on and off I've seen the same comments over and over and over. People saying they liked UO, AC, EQ, DAoC (You're one of the few to say The Realm which was my first MMO and was around before UO despite UO constantly getting the first MMO title) and why can't they find a game like that to play anymore when in fact all of those games are there to play right now.