The problem is if it fails it gives all the corporate people that keep ruining our games more sway to say "see, they dont want innovation".
Thats a Strawman arguement, worthless and pointless with no basis in fact in the slightest.
But it would be reasonable to think that RvR/PvP centric MMOs might not be the way to go in the future. It is a less popular genre, and WoW copies are probably more revenue generating.
Thats not what tierless is saying though, he just states that this KS failing would lead to no innovation , which is just nonsense.
On your point, RvR / PvP focus games are probably less popular overall than themepark "wow type" games but GW2 has shown that if done correctly they can generate money on a large scale. TESO will show more fully if a RvR game can sustain a sub paying player base, heres hoping.
CU is merely using the name of daoc to try to grab money.
And pulling on the heart-strings of old DAoC fans. That's the part that pissed me off the most. As an ex-DAoC player, the approach to this project offended me more than it interested me.
"As things currently stand, Camelot Unchained will not fund. The income has slowed to a trickle with the only hope coming from a decent bump when Larian Studios (designers of a title I'm currently truly excited for: Dragon Commander) officially backed them in a mutual partnership. The project literally needs double what it’s bringing in daily though to have a chance of making the remaining $500,000 required to hit their goal"
The quote above is from the OPs article about the kickstarter campaign, I think it will be interesting to see what the last couple of days bring, I still think the kickstarter campaign is about 50:50. The problem CU has is the small number of backers and the high level of pledges so far, this means drop outs will have a disproportionate effect, whilst current pledgers will have less wiggle room to up their pledges.
CU is merely using the name of daoc to try to grab money.
And pulling on the heart-strings of old DAoC fans. That's the part that pissed me off the most. As an ex-DAoC player, the approach to this project offended me more than it interested me.
Except CSE has never described the project as just being DAOC 2.
The problem is people on these forums talking passed each other. The most excited supporters who post without any restraint are interpreted by you as being somehow representative of CSE or even the community itself, which they just arent.
At the same time the community that supports the project sees incredibly negative, sarcastic, and outright trolling posts spamming the boards in response and recoils against that. And then everyone becomes even more hardened in their opinions when those defensive people are accused of calling everyone trolls when there clearly are certain people who are trolls.
Its the same thing that happens with political discourse. The loudest voices are at the extremes, and the more moderate supporters are left with the impression that everyone who disagrees with them is supporting that radical opposition.
EDIT: It gets even more confusing when those troll posts are removed by moderation, leaving no evidence of what upset people in the first place. i.e. the incredibly childish one that was posted immediately after this post and thankfully already removed by moderators before anyone responded to it directly.
They have a bunch of ideas that are not set in stone, yet they know for sure that they need 2 million dollars. That's why this is ks has always seemed half baked to me.
The problem is if it fails it gives all the corporate people that keep ruining our games more sway to say "see, they dont want innovation".
Well i have to say this...
CU is not about innovation... it is if anything the exact opposite. It is about conservative thinking about a age of games that are pretty much by now.. gone.
It is more advanced but that is not the same thing and if their engine can do what they claim it will be able to do. That might be a innovation... but this is not a kickstarter for a engine...
So i would not worry about that. If anything it will prove to all the companies that follow in the wake of Blizzard they they did the right thing to move towards a"safe" PvE centric experience.. But i do not think it will be held up as a beacon of innovation.
I'm one of the most liberally minded people you'll likely meet. No, it isn't conservative thinking - in fact, there's two different dynamics in gaming: PvE and PvP. Blizzard didn't revolutionize anything in the beginning; all blizzard did was steal idea from other companies and polish it further into perfection. They're a great company, but it's much like Apple.
The forward motion of the industry isn't toward 'safe" PvE - It's a split between different niche games. Whether CU funds or not, the age of massive AAA MMO titles that includes something for everyone is almost over. We'll still see them, but not on the scale we're use too these days.
I'd just like to lol one more time at CU being conservative.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
People saying that MJ has been trying to say this is DAOC2 to trick DAOC fans...where have you been? He has said time and time again it is not DAOC2, and that it is not a spiritual sucessor. He's done articles, said it in videos, and straight up said it to people on KS.
The writer of the article is practically preaching to the choir. Everyone whos invested and convinced that this will be the best thing since sliced bread will agree with him. Other peeps risk ending up thinking his article is massively exaggerated and kinda creepy.
In fact, this could actually scare people AWAY from the KS, seeing this desperate, feverish speech about how CU is the salvation of the genre. Im not a founder, because its too niche, too little tangible information... and the info is coming from Mark Jacobs. I still remember his massive babbling in the dev videos for Warhammer: so much talk and so little useful info, and how it turned out.
I think the title is pretty sensationalist to say the least. The final countdown for the industry? Really? The industry seems to be doing alright to me considering it makes more money every year. CU isn't going to change a damn thing if it does fund. The best that will happen is a few more "innovative" low-budget, feature-limited MMORPGs will be released. The MMO scene has become a multi-billion dollar industry. A game that can barely scrape together 10k backers and $2 million is basically a fart in the wind in terms of effect on the industry.
The writer of the article is practically preaching to the choir. Everyone whos invested and convinced that this will be the best thing since sliced bread will agree with him. Other peeps risk ending up thinking his article is massively exaggerated and kinda creepy.
In fact, this could actually scare people AWAY from the KS, seeing this desperate, feverish speech about how CU is the salvation of the genre. Im not a founder, because its too niche, too little tangible information... and the info is coming from Mark Jacobs. I still remember his massive babbling in the dev videos for Warhammer: so much talk and so little useful info, and how it turned out.
I was going to make a post until I read this... ^
Now I see no need for me to make a seperate post as this covers what I would have said :P
Originally posted by simsalabim77 I think the title is pretty sensationalist to say the least. The final countdown for the industry? Really? The industry seems to be doing alright to me considering it makes more money every year. CU isn't going to change a damn thing if it does fund. The best that will happen is a few more "innovative" low-budget, feature-limited MMORPGs will be released. The MMO scene has become a multi-billion dollar industry. A game that can barely scrape together 10k backers and $2 million is basically a fart in the wind in terms of effect on the industry.
Amen to that.
There's this group of people who are so displeased with MMO's these days that they project their unhappiness onto everyone else and imagine that everyone is just waiting on something like CU to save them. It seems the reality is that they're a niche of a niche of a niche.
CU is merely using the name of daoc to try to grab money.
And pulling on the heart-strings of old DAoC fans. That's the part that pissed me off the most. As an ex-DAoC player, the approach to this project offended me more than it interested me.
Except CSE has never described the project as just being DAOC 2.
The problem is people on these forums talking passed each other. The most excited supporters who post without any restraint are interpreted by you as being somehow representative of CSE or even the community itself, which they just arent.
At the same time the community that supports the project sees incredibly negative, sarcastic, and outright trolling posts spamming the boards in response and recoils against that. And then everyone becomes even more hardened in their opinions when those defensive people are accused of calling everyone trolls when there clearly are certain people who are trolls.
Its the same thing that happens with political discourse. The loudest voices are at the extremes, and the more moderate supporters are left with the impression that everyone who disagrees with them is supporting that radical opposition.
EDIT: It gets even more confusing when those troll posts are removed by moderation, leaving no evidence of what upset people in the first place. i.e. the incredibly childish one that was posted immediately after this post and thankfully already removed by moderators before anyone responded to it directly.
They do use the name "camelot" trying to have us DAoC fans to pledge (read : donate) for the new project.
I just checked out this campaign and I am not even remotely interested. Besides I wouldn´t have faith in a project which does not show some convincing alpha gameplay snippets. I don´t even see what a success of this campaign has to do with "the industry".
There already were far more successful Kickstarters out there, e.g. Star Citizen, Double Fine, Elite and lots of others showing that it can work, they already changed "the industry" and don´t need Camelot as a "me too" project.
Not every game concept on Kickstarter can be successful.
If a campaign fails, the concept / presentation failed, not some mythical "industry changing" project. Also - too little, too late.
Cheers
Doc B
Quoting myself here because no one responded to the arguments, also I want to add:
PEOPLE LACK IMAGINATION. Even I do. I can´t imagine this game after reading some of the text blocks, then looking at the very basic looking tech demos. It may appeal to visionary people, but maybe I am not enough of a visionary, or Daoc fan, PvP extremist to back this. Also I am just not really into RvR *shrug*.
The other Kickstarters I backed had lots of things to show, you got some impression of how the game will "feel". After looking at the CU materials the feeling was just.. "Meh, dunno... let´s check it out if / when it is released"
I just checked out this campaign and I am not even remotely interested. Besides I wouldn´t have faith in a project which does not show some convincing alpha gameplay snippets. I don´t even see what a success of this campaign has to do with "the industry".
There already were far more successful Kickstarters out there, e.g. Star Citizen, Double Fine, Elite and lots of others showing that it can work, they already changed "the industry" and don´t need Camelot as a "me too" project.
Not every game concept on Kickstarter can be successful.
If a campaign fails, the concept / presentation failed, not some mythical "industry changing" project. Also - too little, too late.
Cheers
Doc B
Quoting myself here because no one responded to the arguments, also I want to add:
PEOPLE LACK IMAGINATION. Even I do. I can´t imagine this game after reading some of the text blocks, then looking at the very basic looking tech demos. It may appeal to visionary people, but maybe I am not enough of a visionary, or Daoc fan, PvP extremist to back this. Also I am just not really into RvR *shrug*.
The other Kickstarters I backed had lots of things to show, you got some impression of how the game will "feel". After looking at the CU materials the feeling was just.. "Meh, dunno... let´s check it out if / when it is released"
which had lots to show? most the big projects(1 mil+) I have seen and backed have had hardly anything at all.. i backed mostly because the ideas the developers presented sounded like games I would love to play
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I just checked out this campaign and I am not even remotely interested. Besides I wouldn´t have faith in a project which does not show some convincing alpha gameplay snippets. I don´t even see what a success of this campaign has to do with "the industry".
There already were far more successful Kickstarters out there, e.g. Star Citizen, Double Fine, Elite and lots of others showing that it can work, they already changed "the industry" and don´t need Camelot as a "me too" project.
Not every game concept on Kickstarter can be successful.
If a campaign fails, the concept / presentation failed, not some mythical "industry changing" project. Also - too little, too late.
Cheers
Doc B
Quoting myself here because no one responded to the arguments, also I want to add:
PEOPLE LACK IMAGINATION. Even I do. I can´t imagine this game after reading some of the text blocks, then looking at the very basic looking tech demos. It may appeal to visionary people, but maybe I am not enough of a visionary, or Daoc fan, PvP extremist to back this. Also I am just not really into RvR *shrug*.
The other Kickstarters I backed had lots of things to show, you got some impression of how the game will "feel". After looking at the CU materials the feeling was just.. "Meh, dunno... let´s check it out if / when it is released"
which had lots to show? most the big projects(1 mil+) I have seen and backed have had hardly anything at all.. i backed mostly because the ideas the developers presented sounded like games I would love to play
Have any other mmo's funded on kickstarter? I'm curious because perhaps the reason CU isn't doing as well as other kickstarters with less information is because in general people may be less inclined to pledge to an mmo as the market has been rather lackluster for years. (my opinion of course)
Originally posted by vinland Have any other mmo's funded on kickstarter? I'm curious because perhaps the reason CU isn't doing as well as other kickstarters with less information is because in general people may be less inclined to pledge to an mmo as the market has been rather lackluster for years. (my opinion of course)
KS is new... all the biggest MMO projects have only funded recently so you can't really say if KS will produce quality MMOs yet or not.. The repopulation looks like the first big one that will get released possibly by years end
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I just checked out this campaign and I am not even remotely interested. Besides I wouldn´t have faith in a project which does not show some convincing alpha gameplay snippets. I don´t even see what a success of this campaign has to do with "the industry".
There already were far more successful Kickstarters out there, e.g. Star Citizen, Double Fine, Elite and lots of others showing that it can work, they already changed "the industry" and don´t need Camelot as a "me too" project.
Not every game concept on Kickstarter can be successful.
If a campaign fails, the concept / presentation failed, not some mythical "industry changing" project. Also - too little, too late.
Cheers
Doc B
Quoting myself here because no one responded to the arguments, also I want to add:
PEOPLE LACK IMAGINATION. Even I do. I can´t imagine this game after reading some of the text blocks, then looking at the very basic looking tech demos. It may appeal to visionary people, but maybe I am not enough of a visionary, or Daoc fan, PvP extremist to back this. Also I am just not really into RvR *shrug*.
The other Kickstarters I backed had lots of things to show, you got some impression of how the game will "feel". After looking at the CU materials the feeling was just.. "Meh, dunno... let´s check it out if / when it is released"
which had lots to show? most the big projects(1 mil+) I have seen and backed have had hardly anything at all.. i backed mostly because the ideas the developers presented sounded like games I would love to play
Once again for the hundredth time bringing up Torment is irrelevant.
It is irrelevent because there are amny reasons it got funded so well here's jsut a few
It was riding off the back of Wastleand 2 which is close to release and has shown a lot of good things since funding.
Inxile is an established small studio who has released stuff via the traditional means including the very well recieved The Bard's Tale reboot.
Both Wasteland 2 and Torment have a plethoria of known talent that have worked on Wastlenad,Fallout,Baldur's gate 1/2 etc and aren't banking on one known name alone.
Torment is a game of a reasonable scope for a small company to produce.It's not trying to be a MMORPG for example.
All these things build confidence and so peopel are willign to risk money.None of the aboe apply to CU.
I hope CU does manage to squeek it in but bringing up Torment KS in comparison is not germaine.
I personally believe kickstarter will be great for the quality of all games, I only seem to enjoy indie games these days anyways. I was just interested if perhaps mmo's are less likely to get pledges because people have been disappointed by so many over the years. For example if I saw a promising RPG I would likely donate because i've played as many good rpg's as bad ones. While with MMO's I would be more likely to take in consideration how many times i've been disappointed.
I just checked out this campaign and I am not even remotely interested. Besides I wouldn´t have faith in a project which does not show some convincing alpha gameplay snippets. I don´t even see what a success of this campaign has to do with "the industry".
There already were far more successful Kickstarters out there, e.g. Star Citizen, Double Fine, Elite and lots of others showing that it can work, they already changed "the industry" and don´t need Camelot as a "me too" project.
Not every game concept on Kickstarter can be successful.
If a campaign fails, the concept / presentation failed, not some mythical "industry changing" project. Also - too little, too late.
Cheers
Doc B
Quoting myself here because no one responded to the arguments, also I want to add:
PEOPLE LACK IMAGINATION. Even I do. I can´t imagine this game after reading some of the text blocks, then looking at the very basic looking tech demos. It may appeal to visionary people, but maybe I am not enough of a visionary, or Daoc fan, PvP extremist to back this. Also I am just not really into RvR *shrug*.
The other Kickstarters I backed had lots of things to show, you got some impression of how the game will "feel". After looking at the CU materials the feeling was just.. "Meh, dunno... let´s check it out if / when it is released"
which had lots to show? most the big projects(1 mil+) I have seen and backed have had hardly anything at all.. i backed mostly because the ideas the developers presented sounded like games I would love to play
Once again for the hundredth time bringing up Torment is irrelevant.
It is irrelevent because there are amny reasons it got funded so well here's jsut a few
It was riding off the back of Wastleand 2 which is close to release and has shown a lot of good things since funding.
Inxile is an established small studio who has released stuff via the traditional means including the very well recieved The Bard's Tale reboot.
Both Wasteland 2 and Torment have a plethoria of known talent that have worked on Wastlenad,Fallout,Baldur's gate 1/2 etc and aren't banking on one known name alone.
Torment is a game of a reasonable scope for a small company to produce.It's not trying to be a MMORPG for example.
All these things build confidence and so peopel are willign to risk money.None of the aboe apply to CU.
I hope CU does manage to squeek it in but bringing up Torment KS in comparison is not germaine.
CU has a big name of course and more ideas and feedback on what they want to make than many games put up on KS.. i just see people complaining left and right they won't back because they don't have a working demo and such which imho isn't the main purpose of KS.. KS is as much of a route for developers to get a project started as it is to get a project finished. Also with torment its still valid to my point as many projects get funded with nothing more than a couple photos and some big names, some raw information on the game nothing else.. what CU KS has shown is leaps above(information wise) many of those projects on what is expected for this game
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I just checked out this campaign and I am not even remotely interested. Besides I wouldn´t have faith in a project which does not show some convincing alpha gameplay snippets. I don´t even see what a success of this campaign has to do with "the industry".
There already were far more successful Kickstarters out there, e.g. Star Citizen, Double Fine, Elite and lots of others showing that it can work, they already changed "the industry" and don´t need Camelot as a "me too" project.
Not every game concept on Kickstarter can be successful.
If a campaign fails, the concept / presentation failed, not some mythical "industry changing" project. Also - too little, too late.
Cheers
Doc B
Quoting myself here because no one responded to the arguments, also I want to add:
PEOPLE LACK IMAGINATION. Even I do. I can´t imagine this game after reading some of the text blocks, then looking at the very basic looking tech demos. It may appeal to visionary people, but maybe I am not enough of a visionary, or Daoc fan, PvP extremist to back this. Also I am just not really into RvR *shrug*.
The other Kickstarters I backed had lots of things to show, you got some impression of how the game will "feel". After looking at the CU materials the feeling was just.. "Meh, dunno... let´s check it out if / when it is released"
which had lots to show? most the big projects(1 mil+) I have seen and backed have had hardly anything at all.. i backed mostly because the ideas the developers presented sounded like games I would love to play
Once again for the hundredth time bringing up Torment is irrelevant.
It is irrelevent because there are amny reasons it got funded so well here's jsut a few
It was riding off the back of Wastleand 2 which is close to release and has shown a lot of good things since funding.
Inxile is an established small studio who has released stuff via the traditional means including the very well recieved The Bard's Tale reboot.
Both Wasteland 2 and Torment have a plethoria of known talent that have worked on Wastlenad,Fallout,Baldur's gate 1/2 etc and aren't banking on one known name alone.
Torment is a game of a reasonable scope for a small company to produce.It's not trying to be a MMORPG for example.
All these things build confidence and so peopel are willign to risk money.None of the aboe apply to CU.
I hope CU does manage to squeek it in but bringing up Torment KS in comparison is not germaine.
CU has a big name of course and more ideas and feedback on what they want to make than many games put up on KS.. i just see people complaining left and right they won't back because they don't have a working demo and such which imho isn't the main purpose of KS.. KS is as much of a route for developers to get a project started as it is to get a project finished. Also with torment its still valid to my point as many projects get funded with nothing more than a couple photos and some big names, some raw information on the game nothing else.. what CU KS has shown is leaps above(information wise) many of those projects on what is expected for this game
I won't argue that many KS campaigns have been successful with less or similar to show as CU does but they were all smaller in scope and not asking nearly as much.CU has one Big if tarnished name agreed but my point is Torment is not a good example to use for the above reasons and because their biggest name Brian Forgo has a stelalr reputation to boot.
I will say it over and over, developer bible, i don't think it exist and that translated to a bad kickstarter. I WANTED to like this CU concept but it just wasn't clear enough or had real hard set goals. Just basic ideas and what it "might" have or "what we the devs want to have" , nothing concrete.
To me and I am sure many others, to back a kickstarter there has to be something there to back., use my sig as a perfect example of "how to" do a good kickstarter.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
The writer of the article is practically preaching to the choir. Everyone whos invested and convinced that this will be the best thing since sliced bread will agree with him. Other peeps risk ending up thinking his article is massively exaggerated and kinda creepy.
In fact, this could actually scare people AWAY from the KS, seeing this desperate, feverish speech about how CU is the salvation of the genre. Im not a founder, because its too niche, too little tangible information... and the info is coming from Mark Jacobs. I still remember his massive babbling in the dev videos for Warhammer: so much talk and so little useful info, and how it turned out.
Precisely....and to whoever says he never preaches it being DAoC2...HE DOESN'T HAVE TO.
Camelot in the name.
3 realm RvR.
The Depths...wow so original...back in DAoC it was. (yes he included the LOTR:O content)
Sieges...etc...
Yeah...that ALL screams DAoC. If you choose to try and be naive and blind to this, that's ok, just admit that you are. Don't try to come and act like this isn't obvious. If you can't make these simple leaps then there are some serious issues with humanity as a whole.
On the other hand....I REALLY wish it would fund because it could be "ok". I am a hardcore pk'er (pvp/rvr/whatever), but the lack of things to do outside of RvR in this game makes me not care even a little bit about funding it. Their idiotic choice to take out stealth (and no...I practically never play stealthers was a Bard in DAoC) and such a horrid twist on it also made my decision. But it could be..."ok".
This is no herald of better things, nothing innovative (AT ALL), and most of all it's coming from someone who is KNOWN to say whatever is necessary to please the masses then pull the bait and switch.
Those that didn't learn from history...will repeat it.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
Comments
Thats not what tierless is saying though, he just states that this KS failing would lead to no innovation , which is just nonsense.
On your point, RvR / PvP focus games are probably less popular overall than themepark "wow type" games but GW2 has shown that if done correctly they can generate money on a large scale. TESO will show more fully if a RvR game can sustain a sub paying player base, heres hoping.
And pulling on the heart-strings of old DAoC fans. That's the part that pissed me off the most. As an ex-DAoC player, the approach to this project offended me more than it interested me.
To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com
"As things currently stand, Camelot Unchained will not fund. The income has slowed to a trickle with the only hope coming from a decent bump when Larian Studios (designers of a title I'm currently truly excited for: Dragon Commander) officially backed them in a mutual partnership. The project literally needs double what it’s bringing in daily though to have a chance of making the remaining $500,000 required to hit their goal"
The quote above is from the OPs article about the kickstarter campaign, I think it will be interesting to see what the last couple of days bring, I still think the kickstarter campaign is about 50:50. The problem CU has is the small number of backers and the high level of pledges so far, this means drop outs will have a disproportionate effect, whilst current pledgers will have less wiggle room to up their pledges.
Thank you Moderator, finally seeing a non-biased one is nice!
Just posting a link to an article and people get on their high horses..
Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained
Except CSE has never described the project as just being DAOC 2.
The problem is people on these forums talking passed each other. The most excited supporters who post without any restraint are interpreted by you as being somehow representative of CSE or even the community itself, which they just arent.
At the same time the community that supports the project sees incredibly negative, sarcastic, and outright trolling posts spamming the boards in response and recoils against that. And then everyone becomes even more hardened in their opinions when those defensive people are accused of calling everyone trolls when there clearly are certain people who are trolls.
Its the same thing that happens with political discourse. The loudest voices are at the extremes, and the more moderate supporters are left with the impression that everyone who disagrees with them is supporting that radical opposition.
EDIT: It gets even more confusing when those troll posts are removed by moderation, leaving no evidence of what upset people in the first place. i.e. the incredibly childish one that was posted immediately after this post and thankfully already removed by moderators before anyone responded to it directly.
They have a bunch of ideas that are not set in stone, yet they know for sure that they need 2 million dollars. That's why this is ks has always seemed half baked to me.
I'm one of the most liberally minded people you'll likely meet. No, it isn't conservative thinking - in fact, there's two different dynamics in gaming: PvE and PvP. Blizzard didn't revolutionize anything in the beginning; all blizzard did was steal idea from other companies and polish it further into perfection. They're a great company, but it's much like Apple.
The forward motion of the industry isn't toward 'safe" PvE - It's a split between different niche games. Whether CU funds or not, the age of massive AAA MMO titles that includes something for everyone is almost over. We'll still see them, but not on the scale we're use too these days.
I'd just like to lol one more time at CU being conservative.
People saying that MJ has been trying to say this is DAOC2 to trick DAOC fans...where have you been? He has said time and time again it is not DAOC2, and that it is not a spiritual sucessor. He's done articles, said it in videos, and straight up said it to people on KS.
http://www.warcry.com/news/view/123133-Exclusive-Interview-with-the-Man-Behind-Kickstarter-for-PvP-Focused-Camelot-Unchained
Ex-Mythic Head Explains Why Camelot Unchained Isn't the Spiritual Successor to DAoC
Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained
Sorry OP, but this wont work at all...
The writer of the article is practically preaching to the choir. Everyone whos invested and convinced that this will be the best thing since sliced bread will agree with him. Other peeps risk ending up thinking his article is massively exaggerated and kinda creepy.
In fact, this could actually scare people AWAY from the KS, seeing this desperate, feverish speech about how CU is the salvation of the genre. Im not a founder, because its too niche, too little tangible information... and the info is coming from Mark Jacobs. I still remember his massive babbling in the dev videos for Warhammer: so much talk and so little useful info, and how it turned out.
I was going to make a post until I read this... ^
Now I see no need for me to make a seperate post as this covers what I would have said :P
Amen to that.
There's this group of people who are so displeased with MMO's these days that they project their unhappiness onto everyone else and imagine that everyone is just waiting on something like CU to save them. It seems the reality is that they're a niche of a niche of a niche.
They do use the name "camelot" trying to have us DAoC fans to pledge (read : donate) for the new project.
Quoting myself here because no one responded to the arguments, also I want to add:
PEOPLE LACK IMAGINATION. Even I do. I can´t imagine this game after reading some of the text blocks, then looking at the very basic looking tech demos. It may appeal to visionary people, but maybe I am not enough of a visionary, or Daoc fan, PvP extremist to back this. Also I am just not really into RvR *shrug*.
The other Kickstarters I backed had lots of things to show, you got some impression of how the game will "feel". After looking at the CU materials the feeling was just.. "Meh, dunno... let´s check it out if / when it is released"
which had lots to show? most the big projects(1 mil+) I have seen and backed have had hardly anything at all.. i backed mostly because the ideas the developers presented sounded like games I would love to play
for example the Torment game http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera?ref=category only 19 updates not a lot of comments yet made over 4 million.. with just a 20 second tech test and really nothing much else
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Elite raised 2.5m with a few artists impressions, it did however have the nostalgia of a massive playerbase (anyone with a computer from 1982 to 1992)
KS is new... all the biggest MMO projects have only funded recently so you can't really say if KS will produce quality MMOs yet or not.. The repopulation looks like the first big one that will get released possibly by years end
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Once again for the hundredth time bringing up Torment is irrelevant.
It is irrelevent because there are amny reasons it got funded so well here's jsut a few
It was riding off the back of Wastleand 2 which is close to release and has shown a lot of good things since funding.
Inxile is an established small studio who has released stuff via the traditional means including the very well recieved The Bard's Tale reboot.
Both Wasteland 2 and Torment have a plethoria of known talent that have worked on Wastlenad,Fallout,Baldur's gate 1/2 etc and aren't banking on one known name alone.
Torment is a game of a reasonable scope for a small company to produce.It's not trying to be a MMORPG for example.
All these things build confidence and so peopel are willign to risk money.None of the aboe apply to CU.
I hope CU does manage to squeek it in but bringing up Torment KS in comparison is not germaine.
CU has a big name of course and more ideas and feedback on what they want to make than many games put up on KS.. i just see people complaining left and right they won't back because they don't have a working demo and such which imho isn't the main purpose of KS.. KS is as much of a route for developers to get a project started as it is to get a project finished. Also with torment its still valid to my point as many projects get funded with nothing more than a couple photos and some big names, some raw information on the game nothing else.. what CU KS has shown is leaps above(information wise) many of those projects on what is expected for this game
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I won't argue that many KS campaigns have been successful with less or similar to show as CU does but they were all smaller in scope and not asking nearly as much.CU has one Big if tarnished name agreed but my point is Torment is not a good example to use for the above reasons and because their biggest name Brian Forgo has a stelalr reputation to boot.
I will say it over and over, developer bible, i don't think it exist and that translated to a bad kickstarter. I WANTED to like this CU concept but it just wasn't clear enough or had real hard set goals. Just basic ideas and what it "might" have or "what we the devs want to have" , nothing concrete.
To me and I am sure many others, to back a kickstarter there has to be something there to back., use my sig as a perfect example of "how to" do a good kickstarter.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Precisely....and to whoever says he never preaches it being DAoC2...HE DOESN'T HAVE TO.
Camelot in the name.
3 realm RvR.
The Depths...wow so original...back in DAoC it was. (yes he included the LOTR:O content)
Sieges...etc...
Yeah...that ALL screams DAoC. If you choose to try and be naive and blind to this, that's ok, just admit that you are. Don't try to come and act like this isn't obvious. If you can't make these simple leaps then there are some serious issues with humanity as a whole.
On the other hand....I REALLY wish it would fund because it could be "ok". I am a hardcore pk'er (pvp/rvr/whatever), but the lack of things to do outside of RvR in this game makes me not care even a little bit about funding it. Their idiotic choice to take out stealth (and no...I practically never play stealthers was a Bard in DAoC) and such a horrid twist on it also made my decision. But it could be..."ok".
This is no herald of better things, nothing innovative (AT ALL), and most of all it's coming from someone who is KNOWN to say whatever is necessary to please the masses then pull the bait and switch.
Those that didn't learn from history...will repeat it.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
