Because ANet already proved it's not only possible, but viable? Yeah, you can call me cheap, I prefer to think of it as not paying for something I don't have to. *shrug* Guess that makes me "entitled" too. Keep throwing around insults if it makes you feel big, I just have the opinion that it's about damn time I found a business model I like.
Viable for how long though. Gw2 is down 347% from last quarter alone. That is a rather massive drop.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Because ANet already proved it's not only possible, but viable? Yeah, you can call me cheap, I prefer to think of it as not paying for something I don't have to. *shrug* Guess that makes me "entitled" too. Keep throwing around insults if it makes you feel big, I just have the opinion that it's about damn time I found a business model I like.
Viable for how long though. Gw2 is down 347% from last quarter alone. That is a rather massive drop.
Of course box sales are down, but you don't even mention that is what your stat refers to. That's the trend. Of course, your number doesn't tell you anything about how much the game is making from fluff in the cs, nor does it tell you what their profit margin. One would think you know very little about he cycle of cash flow in mmos.
You should also try not to pump up your point by twisting dataz, btw.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I don't want Wildstar to be free to play. I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's. Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.
I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why. 20 bucks a month... sound fair? Please give me back sub based gaming.
Dont worry .. I can guarantee you that WildStar is not going to be f2p.
Its either p2p or maybe b2p.
You cannot guarantee anything as of right now.
If Wildstar is truly going after the hard core raid crowd it will be sub. It has to be as that's the only way your going to have a prayer of convincing them really give your end game a go and stick around. B2P and F2P are fine for casual MMO's and PVP feasts but they don't exactly have a stellar reputation for creating compelling PVE end game for long periods of time. Those kinds of games don't add to the PVE end game like Sub games do, at least not like the sub games that have drawn raiders to them like WoW, EQ2, and Rift.
Not that any Sub game released in the last few years has either but that might be exactly why they are all F2P now. I know a lot of people who raid in EQ2 and I can't say that I know a single one who plays the game F2P. They all sub and leave the F2P crap for the casuals.
I don't want Wildstar to be free to play. I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's. Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.
I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why. 20 bucks a month... sound fair? Please give me back sub based gaming.
You may want sub pay models, but the overwhelming drive is moving towards F2P models or hybrids. Wildstar may start out sub, but within 18 - 24 months it will go F2P or hybrid. There is just so much more money in it. You can either adapt or move to a different genre.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Of course box sales are down, but you don't even mention that is what your stat refers to. That's the trend. Of course, your number doesn't tell you anything about how much the game is making from fluff in the cs, nor does it tell you what their profit margin. One would think you know very little about he cycle of cash flow in mmos.
You should also try not to pump up your point by twisting dataz, btw.
Thats total revenue as stated on the earnings call. Christ, I know its something negative said about your precious Gw2 but please face reality.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
If Wildstar is truly going after the hard core raid crowd it will be sub. It has to be as that's the only way your going to have a prayer of convincing them really give your end game a go and stick around. B2P and F2P are fine for casual MMO's and PVP feasts but they don't exactly have a stellar reputation for creating compelling PVE end game for long periods of time. Those kinds of games don't add to the PVE end game like Sub games do, at least not like the sub games that have drawn raiders to them like WoW, EQ2, and Rift.
Not that any Sub game released in the last few years has either but that might be exactly why they are all F2P now. I know a lot of people who raid in EQ2 and I can't say that I know a single one who plays the game F2P. They all sub and leave the F2P crap for the casuals.
I don't really see how a game can't be free to play if you want raiders to take it seriously but then use a free to play game as your example. Obviously you can have both in one game and make it work....eq2 seems to of.
Wow's barrens chat is an icon of online immaturity and anonymous chaotic internet gaming, but here it's being held up as a paragon of maturity and exclusivity just to push an agenda.
Say anything as long as you get what you want. That is TRUE entitlement.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
If Wildstar is truly going after the hard core raid crowd it will be sub. It has to be as that's the only way your going to have a prayer of convincing them really give your end game a go and stick around. B2P and F2P are fine for casual MMO's and PVP feasts but they don't exactly have a stellar reputation for creating compelling PVE end game for long periods of time. Those kinds of games don't add to the PVE end game like Sub games do, at least not like the sub games that have drawn raiders to them like WoW, EQ2, and Rift.
Not that any Sub game released in the last few years has either but that might be exactly why they are all F2P now. I know a lot of people who raid in EQ2 and I can't say that I know a single one who plays the game F2P. They all sub and leave the F2P crap for the casuals.
I don't really see how a game can't be free to play if you want raiders to take it seriously but then use a free to play game as your example. Obviously you can have both in one game and make it work....eq2 seems to of.
It's a perception of quality and focus on end game content that matters. EQ2 already had that reputation before converting to a F2P option which is very different than launching F2P. If Wildstar launches F2P or B2P it is going to have a uphill battle convincing the hard core raid crowd to give up their current games and come over. Even if Wildstar launched F2P with a Sub option it would carry the F2P stigma much more so than a game that launched Sub for 5 years than converted.
The most important part of my point is that F2P games have a perception of ignoring end game PVE that is very well deserved IMO. EQ2 gets away with it because the game has been so end game focused for so long that they are just carrying though and even as such many of the raiders I know are annoyed at SOE "dumbing" down the game by doing things like making powerful crafting gear that while hard to make is on par with at least a few of the best in slot raid pieces and solo instances that drop gear that is competitive to first tier raid gear.
Now if Wildstar isn't really serious in courting the hard core raid crowd and all that talk about raiding is just marketing speak to pull a end game SWTOR than a Sub is probably not a good idea for Wildstar. Nothing draws the casual MMO player and PVP crowd in like a F2P or even B2P title.
I don't want Wildstar to be free to play. I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's. Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.
I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why. 20 bucks a month... sound fair? Please give me back sub based gaming.
You have my full support and could not agree more. Really hate F2P (that actually NEVER is free for real, at end cost more then normal sub all inclusive). And I hate people have no problem to pay many times this import for smoking and drinking, but have problem paying sub for great dedication of entire staffs that create games I have so far enjoyed a lot in free time.
ADDED: btw isn't it a little too early to be saying you prefer a sub f2p? I have been around mmo to know that people like YOU are the first to complain about the game the game saying it is not worth the sub.
heh so true ...
so far the best model is a b2p with cash shop for cosmetics, in game gold and services like name-change, extra character slots etc... but NOT boosters of character stats
I'm going to have to pass if it's a sub game. i don't feel like renting something I've already paid for.
Careful now, you're treading on movie ticket analogy thin ice here.
How so? I buy a ticket to watch a single performance of a movie. How is that in any way, shape or form akin to subbing to a video game?
Yeah, well I'm with you on that one. I just said that because usually someone breaks out the movie ticket analogy to justify subscriptions. I don't know why either.
Because ANet already proved it's not only possible, but viable? Yeah, you can call me cheap, I prefer to think of it as not paying for something I don't have to. *shrug* Guess that makes me "entitled" too. Keep throwing around insults if it makes you feel big, I just have the opinion that it's about damn time I found a business model I like.
Viable for how long though. Gw2 is down 347% from last quarter alone. That is a rather massive drop.
Where do you get those figures? If you mean box sales, oh... well, that sucks that GW2 is not selling as well after the 3 million copies. I guess that's different from most MMO's. Yes, that's sarcasm... well, sort of, a lot of MMOs since WoW haven't sold nearly that many in 6 months, maybe ever. It's been over 6 months, the game is a success, and it won't have to go F2P to support itself like almost all sub games. That was my point.
Because ANet already proved it's not only possible, but viable? Yeah, you can call me cheap, I prefer to think of it as not paying for something I don't have to. *shrug* Guess that makes me "entitled" too. Keep throwing around insults if it makes you feel big, I just have the opinion that it's about damn time I found a business model I like.
Viable for how long though. Gw2 is down 347% from last quarter alone. That is a rather massive drop.
Where do you get those figures? If you mean box sales, oh... well, that sucks that GW2 is not selling as well after the 3 million copies. I guess that's different from most MMO's. Yes, that's sarcasm... well, sort of, a lot of MMOs since WoW haven't sold nearly that many in 6 months, maybe ever. It's been over 6 months, the game is a success, and it won't have to go F2P to support itself like almost all sub games. That was my point.
I don't know what yours was.
You are right, but I am sure that Blizzard made a lot more money over that time than GW2 did and it is an eight year old game. So what was your point?
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Because ANet already proved it's not only possible, but viable? Yeah, you can call me cheap, I prefer to think of it as not paying for something I don't have to. *shrug* Guess that makes me "entitled" too. Keep throwing around insults if it makes you feel big, I just have the opinion that it's about damn time I found a business model I like.
Viable for how long though. Gw2 is down 347% from last quarter alone. That is a rather massive drop.
Where do you get those figures? If you mean box sales, oh... well, that sucks that GW2 is not selling as well after the 3 million copies. I guess that's different from most MMO's. Yes, that's sarcasm... well, sort of, a lot of MMOs since WoW haven't sold nearly that many in 6 months, maybe ever. It's been over 6 months, the game is a success, and it won't have to go F2P to support itself like almost all sub games. That was my point.
I don't know what yours was.
You are right, but I am sure that Blizzard made a lot more money over that time than GW2 did and it is an eight year old game. So what was your point?
Uh.. I said what my point was twice now, this will make three: MOST (that means pretty much every game but WoW and EVE) subscription model games have failed to reach WoW numbers and had to go F2P, finding that their revenue actually increased when they did so. GW2 won't need to do that because it's B2P and asks for a one time fee for all of the game's content (including cash shop items for gold to gem trades).
My POINT is that sub games are not as viable as they once were. If anyone can prove me wrong, let them. Because as far as I can tell, every time a sub game comes out, it just ends up F2P.
One more time: If Wildstar is released P2P, it wont' last (the model, not the game).
I don't want Wildstar to be free to play. I want their business model to be exactly like WoW's. Barrier to entry, submission based, almost all perks and fun stuff are part of a monthly sub, other non-game breaking, cosmetic fluff in a cash shop.
I hate F2P games and the AH crash going on right now in Neverwinter is a perfect example of why. 20 bucks a month... sound fair? Please give me back sub based gaming.
LOLOL! You want the almost now defunct monthly of 15 buck a month to go to twenty?
So you want the game to not sell at all right? Or just go F2P a month after launch?
Wow's barrens chat is an icon of online immaturity and anonymous chaotic internet gaming, but here it's being held up as a paragon of maturity and exclusivity just to push an agenda.
Say anything as long as you get what you want. That is TRUE entitlement.
I prefer that the P2P model, I prefer transparency in my transactions. I have never said it will affect the quality of players in the game. As for the barrens chat, I liked the Chuck Norris jokes. I also said I will play (support) this game whether its F2P or P2P, and made a note saying there are some who will not. There are some that will wait(not support) for this game to go F2P just because they are against the P2P model.
Now I would never be the one to say that I am the founder of absolute truth, but I think the latter in my description are more entitled then the people in yours.
Comments
Viable for how long though. Gw2 is down 347% from last quarter alone. That is a rather massive drop.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Of course box sales are down, but you don't even mention that is what your stat refers to. That's the trend. Of course, your number doesn't tell you anything about how much the game is making from fluff in the cs, nor does it tell you what their profit margin. One would think you know very little about he cycle of cash flow in mmos.
You should also try not to pump up your point by twisting dataz, btw.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I don't mind Sub per month .
FTP seems like a scam most of the time just to get people to play so they might hopefully get sucked in to buying something.
How so? I buy a ticket to watch a single performance of a movie. How is that in any way, shape or form akin to subbing to a video game?
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
If Wildstar is truly going after the hard core raid crowd it will be sub. It has to be as that's the only way your going to have a prayer of convincing them really give your end game a go and stick around. B2P and F2P are fine for casual MMO's and PVP feasts but they don't exactly have a stellar reputation for creating compelling PVE end game for long periods of time. Those kinds of games don't add to the PVE end game like Sub games do, at least not like the sub games that have drawn raiders to them like WoW, EQ2, and Rift.
Not that any Sub game released in the last few years has either but that might be exactly why they are all F2P now. I know a lot of people who raid in EQ2 and I can't say that I know a single one who plays the game F2P. They all sub and leave the F2P crap for the casuals.
You may want sub pay models, but the overwhelming drive is moving towards F2P models or hybrids. Wildstar may start out sub, but within 18 - 24 months it will go F2P or hybrid. There is just so much more money in it. You can either adapt or move to a different genre.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Thats total revenue as stated on the earnings call. Christ, I know its something negative said about your precious Gw2 but please face reality.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
I don't really see how a game can't be free to play if you want raiders to take it seriously but then use a free to play game as your example. Obviously you can have both in one game and make it work....eq2 seems to of.
Wow's barrens chat is an icon of online immaturity and anonymous chaotic internet gaming, but here it's being held up as a paragon of maturity and exclusivity just to push an agenda.
Say anything as long as you get what you want. That is TRUE entitlement.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
It's a perception of quality and focus on end game content that matters. EQ2 already had that reputation before converting to a F2P option which is very different than launching F2P. If Wildstar launches F2P or B2P it is going to have a uphill battle convincing the hard core raid crowd to give up their current games and come over. Even if Wildstar launched F2P with a Sub option it would carry the F2P stigma much more so than a game that launched Sub for 5 years than converted.
The most important part of my point is that F2P games have a perception of ignoring end game PVE that is very well deserved IMO. EQ2 gets away with it because the game has been so end game focused for so long that they are just carrying though and even as such many of the raiders I know are annoyed at SOE "dumbing" down the game by doing things like making powerful crafting gear that while hard to make is on par with at least a few of the best in slot raid pieces and solo instances that drop gear that is competitive to first tier raid gear.
Now if Wildstar isn't really serious in courting the hard core raid crowd and all that talk about raiding is just marketing speak to pull a end game SWTOR than a Sub is probably not a good idea for Wildstar. Nothing draws the casual MMO player and PVP crowd in like a F2P or even B2P title.
You have my full support and could not agree more. Really hate F2P (that actually NEVER is free for real, at end cost more then normal sub all inclusive). And I hate people have no problem to pay many times this import for smoking and drinking, but have problem paying sub for great dedication of entire staffs that create games I have so far enjoyed a lot in free time.
heh so true ...
so far the best model is a b2p with cash shop for cosmetics, in game gold and services like name-change, extra character slots etc... but NOT boosters of character stats
Yeah, well I'm with you on that one. I just said that because usually someone breaks out the movie ticket analogy to justify subscriptions. I don't know why either.
Where do you get those figures? If you mean box sales, oh... well, that sucks that GW2 is not selling as well after the 3 million copies. I guess that's different from most MMO's. Yes, that's sarcasm... well, sort of, a lot of MMOs since WoW haven't sold nearly that many in 6 months, maybe ever. It's been over 6 months, the game is a success, and it won't have to go F2P to support itself like almost all sub games. That was my point.
I don't know what yours was.
You are right, but I am sure that Blizzard made a lot more money over that time than GW2 did and it is an eight year old game. So what was your point?
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Uh.. I said what my point was twice now, this will make three: MOST (that means pretty much every game but WoW and EVE) subscription model games have failed to reach WoW numbers and had to go F2P, finding that their revenue actually increased when they did so. GW2 won't need to do that because it's B2P and asks for a one time fee for all of the game's content (including cash shop items for gold to gem trades).
My POINT is that sub games are not as viable as they once were. If anyone can prove me wrong, let them. Because as far as I can tell, every time a sub game comes out, it just ends up F2P.
One more time: If Wildstar is released P2P, it wont' last (the model, not the game).
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
LOLOL! You want the almost now defunct monthly of 15 buck a month to go to twenty?
So you want the game to not sell at all right? Or just go F2P a month after launch?
Seriously, if you're going to troll, try harder.
I prefer that the P2P model, I prefer transparency in my transactions. I have never said it will affect the quality of players in the game. As for the barrens chat, I liked the Chuck Norris jokes. I also said I will play (support) this game whether its F2P or P2P, and made a note saying there are some who will not. There are some that will wait(not support) for this game to go F2P just because they are against the P2P model.
Now I would never be the one to say that I am the founder of absolute truth, but I think the latter in my description are more entitled then the people in yours.