Originally posted by swizards01 I don't like to play a game that have subscription because it's not open to everyone and it's getting pretty boring. The real mmorpg is open to everybody. Every month, every year there is new release free 2 play mmo and more greater. I'm not happy i did not see my friends playing and i can't see more people. I am still looking a free 2 play mmo, not pay 2 win and there is a real money auction house. A MMO company that thinking different type of trading so no other website scam and no other website allowed giving discount. Very simple make a program the game coins can only trade in auction house not in the carracter.
Totally wrong, real MMORPG were always P2P, F2P is relatively new on this genre and in my opinion is just filling the genre with mediocre games that are just to get money from these rich gamers that dont care to pay 200$ to have best game gear, boost exps etc.
12$ per month is ridicully low when u see the cost of a mount on a F2P game. Inventory slots, Reset, Server change, Storage slots, dungeon access, etc. But i will not discuss between P2P and F2P, i just want a P2P game that give me AAA quality game with updates focused on gameplay and not on their online shop
It's not that $12/mo is expensive to people. The issue is the perceived value that they are getting for their $12/mo. I could easily afford to subscribe to tens of games at that price, but I don't see what I am getting for my money except paid access to a game. Alternatively I own well over 250+ titles that I can always access anytime for free after having paid the initial box price. Most fans of B2P and F2P see no benefit of the subscription outside of being able to access a game that has a P2P model. Everything else is the same as any F2P or B2P that wasn't thrown together as a pure cash grab.
If the $12 I give a company every month provides me no return outside of access to the game that's money wasted IMO.
Originally posted by swizards01 I don't like to play a game that have subscription because it's not open to everyone and it's getting pretty boring. The real mmorpg is open to everybody. Every month, every year there is new release free 2 play mmo and more greater. I'm not happy i did not see my friends playing and i can't see more people. I am still looking a free 2 play mmo, not pay 2 win and there is a real money auction house. A MMO company that thinking different type of trading so no other website scam and no other website allowed giving discount. Very simple make a program the game coins can only trade in auction house not in the carracter.
Totally wrong, real MMORPG were always P2P, F2P is relatively new on this genre and in my opinion is just filling the genre with mediocre games that are just to get money from these rich gamers that dont care to pay 200$ to have best game gear, boost exps etc.
12$ per month is ridicully low when u see the cost of a mount on a F2P game. Inventory slots, Reset, Server change, Storage slots, dungeon access, etc. But i will not discuss between P2P and F2P, i just want a P2P game that give me AAA quality game with updates focused on gameplay and not on their online shop
It's not that $12/mo is expensive to people. The issue is the perceived value that they are getting for their $12/mo. I could easily afford to subscribe to tens of games at that price, but I don't see what I am getting for my money except paid access to a game. Alternatively I own well over 250+ titles that I can always access anytime for free after having paid the initial box price. Most fans of B2P and F2P see no benefit of the subscription outside of being able to access a game that has a P2P model. Everything else is the same as any F2P or B2P that wasn't thrown together as a pure cash grab.
If the $12 I give a company every month provides me no return outside of access to the game that's money wasted IMO.
I cant see the difference wasting 60 bucks on a game with 40-50 gameplay hours that you will put in box and forget it until apolcalypse day.
3 games bought per year are 180 bucks in 150 gameplay hours.
144 bucks on a year subscription (i am not using discounts per packs) give you access to 8760 hours every year.
I cant see your "acess" point when people waste money on 3 offline games that are completed in a week or two and cost 5 months of a P2P game.
And of course, the great difference between these 250+ titles you are talking about is that they are not AAA games.
Originally posted by swizards01 I don't like to play a game that have subscription because it's not open to everyone and it's getting pretty boring. The real mmorpg is open to everybody. Every month, every year there is new release free 2 play mmo and more greater. I'm not happy i did not see my friends playing and i can't see more people. I am still looking a free 2 play mmo, not pay 2 win and there is a real money auction house. A MMO company that thinking different type of trading so no other website scam and no other website allowed giving discount. Very simple make a program the game coins can only trade in auction house not in the carracter.
Totally wrong, real MMORPG were always P2P, F2P is relatively new on this genre and in my opinion is just filling the genre with mediocre games that are just to get money from these rich gamers that dont care to pay 200$ to have best game gear, boost exps etc.
12$ per month is ridicully low when u see the cost of a mount on a F2P game. Inventory slots, Reset, Server change, Storage slots, dungeon access, etc. But i will not discuss between P2P and F2P, i just want a P2P game that give me AAA quality game with updates focused on gameplay and not on their online shop
It's not that $12/mo is expensive to people. The issue is the perceived value that they are getting for their $12/mo. I could easily afford to subscribe to tens of games at that price, but I don't see what I am getting for my money except paid access to a game. Alternatively I own well over 250+ titles that I can always access anytime for free after having paid the initial box price. Most fans of B2P and F2P see no benefit of the subscription outside of being able to access a game that has a P2P model. Everything else is the same as any F2P or B2P that wasn't thrown together as a pure cash grab.
If the $12 I give a company every month provides me no return outside of access to the game that's money wasted IMO.
I cant see the difference wasting 60 bucks on a game with 40-50 gameplay hours that you will put in box and forget it until apolcalypse day.
3 games bought per year are 180 bucks in 150 gameplay hours.
144 bucks on a year subscription (i am not using discounts per packs) give you access to 8760 hours every year.
I cant see your "acess" point when people waste money on 3 offline games that are completed in a week or two and cost 5 months of a P2P game.
And of course, the great difference between these 250+ titles you are talking about is that they are not AAA games.
Yeah, so your MMO also costs you $60 for the box as well plus expansions.
Who on PC actually pays $60 for a game? Every game price, on Steam in particular, is now based off making money on it's sale price of 50% off or more. I may have not paid full price for any game in years at this point.
It's no where near only single player games that I don't have to pay to access. At this point there are several AAA MMO's in the same boat; not to mention titles from every single genre. So I'm just paying said sub to be able to type in my user name and password and access a particular game world. That's all you get. Nothing more, nothing less.
Alternatively I could go play in 1000's of other worlds for free or the cost of the box/download. For me any game in 2013 with a sub model must be the greatest game on the planet and every other game must be trash if I'm willing to pay box price + $120+ per year to play that game. Alternatively I could get the same value for only spending $60 or most times even less to play tons of titles that span every single genre.
Also I'm not one of these folks that just picks a single MMO and plays nothing else ever. I'm a gamer I play tens of games per year not one.
Sadly your argument is rather antiquated and dated seeing as how you're under the impression that I can only get 40-50 hours out of a single title (Skyrim anyone?) and that it's only single player games that require a box purchase and nothing more or less (CoD, BF, PS2, GW2, Warframe, and about a billion other games).
Also I have to laugh at the fact that after 30 years of gaming you don't think I easily own 250+ AAA titles. I wasn't referring to indie crap I paid $1 for. Not to mention that's just looking at my Steam account it doesn't take into account every antiquated console whose games I've owned or the 100+ games for the current gen of consoles sitting at my house either.
Money and gaming is a non-issue for me. If I thought I actually got something worthwhile in return for my sub I'd easily pay it. The fact is I don't feel like I do and neither do many others (probably the majority at this point). You're obviously welcome to feel differently but I'd think you're opinion is foolish.
Originally posted by swizards01 I don't like to play a game that have subscription because it's not open to everyone and it's getting pretty boring. The real mmorpg is open to everybody. Every month, every year there is new release free 2 play mmo and more greater. I'm not happy i did not see my friends playing and i can't see more people. I am still looking a free 2 play mmo, not pay 2 win and there is a real money auction house. A MMO company that thinking different type of trading so no other website scam and no other website allowed giving discount. Very simple make a program the game coins can only trade in auction house not in the carracter.
Totally wrong, real MMORPG were always P2P, F2P is relatively new on this genre and in my opinion is just filling the genre with mediocre games that are just to get money from these rich gamers that dont care to pay 200$ to have best game gear, boost exps etc.
12$ per month is ridicully low when u see the cost of a mount on a F2P game. Inventory slots, Reset, Server change, Storage slots, dungeon access, etc. But i will not discuss between P2P and F2P, i just want a P2P game that give me AAA quality game with updates focused on gameplay and not on their online shop
It's not that $12/mo is expensive to people. The issue is the perceived value that they are getting for their $12/mo. I could easily afford to subscribe to tens of games at that price, but I don't see what I am getting for my money except paid access to a game. Alternatively I own well over 250+ titles that I can always access anytime for free after having paid the initial box price. Most fans of B2P and F2P see no benefit of the subscription outside of being able to access a game that has a P2P model. Everything else is the same as any F2P or B2P that wasn't thrown together as a pure cash grab.
If the $12 I give a company every month provides me no return outside of access to the game that's money wasted IMO.
I cant see the difference wasting 60 bucks on a game with 40-50 gameplay hours that you will put in box and forget it until apolcalypse day.
3 games bought per year are 180 bucks in 150 gameplay hours.
144 bucks on a year subscription (i am not using discounts per packs) give you access to 8760 hours every year.
I cant see your "acess" point when people waste money on 3 offline games that are completed in a week or two and cost 5 months of a P2P game.
And of course, the great difference between these 250+ titles you are talking about is that they are not AAA games.
I'm fairly anti P2P lately, though I plan on playing and support Square (especially since I get a huge discount on the monthly fee) with this game due to the lengths they went to completely remake it (and apologize profusely for past mistakes).
But as a whole, the main reason I no longer play P2P games is because of World of Warcraft (and others). To date I've spent almost four thousand dollars on that game (1600 in monthly fees for one account pf which I have multiple accounts), plus the box prices for all those collectors editions and server transfers etc. Four thousand for one game that I was essentially only renting and can no longer play as my characters are essentially being held for ransom every month.
I feel utterly ashamed when I say I spent four grand on a single game, and then get the usual response from my friends (who weren't MMO players) "That must be the best damn game in the world to pay that much more". The sad thing is, I can't play a game I pay that much for as I don't really "own" and despite all that money can't access it regardless if I bought all the boxes or not.
Thusly I have my accounts printed out and printed on the wall so I don't get tempted to fall into the WoW trap again. Whenever I talk finances I always lose with my girlfriend as she just points to the wall and say how stupid I was for paying thousands of dollars for a game I can't even play. /sadface
I was tricked into rhetoric such as "skip having coffee three times a month and it will pay itself" or some such, without looking at it in terms of equity and a business outlook. In the past when I played Ultima Online it was seen as more of an investment by my MMO friends. Many of them sold their accounts for tens of thousands of dollars due to ample real estate and riches/strengths their characters had. Nowadays companies bar you from doing this, and there's literally no value to your account. This is only relevant as to why I played it in the past and gladly paid thousands for a game I wouldn't have access to (in addition to bandwidth being more expensive). Nowadays I just plain feel ripped off with how cheap bandwidth is, and how we only typically got one patch every six months.
Was that patch ($90) ever equivalent to the five full games I could've got from Steam? Not even close, not even enough content that a single game would've had. Just a raid that only the 1% could play (even with LFR now it's still a rip).
With Final Fantasy I've experienced a progressing story with patches -- a real story with cutscenes and everything -- in the first version when they were improving the game. If they can manage this then I can manage the discounted price I will pay and feel it's at least somewhat worth it (not to mention they said there will likely be new classes with some patches as well).
Thus, I would gladly support Square Enix in this endeavor as they've shown great stuff, and have proven to me that my money is being well invested what with the storyline and content they offer in return.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
I'm fairly anti P2P lately, though I plan on playing and support Square (especially since I get a huge discount on the monthly fee) with this game due to the lengths they went to completely remake it (and apologize profusely for past mistakes).
But as a whole, the main reason I no longer play P2P games is because of World of Warcraft (and others). To date I've spent almost four thousand dollars on that game (1600 in monthly fees for one account pf which I have multiple accounts), plus the box prices for all those collectors editions and server transfers etc. Four thousand for one game that I was essentially only renting and can no longer play as my characters are essentially being held for ransom every month.
I feel utterly ashamed when I say I spent four grand on a single game, and then get the usual response from my friends (who weren't MMO players) "That must be the best damn game in the world to pay that much more". The sad thing is, I can't play a game I pay that much for as I don't really "own" and despite all that money can't access it regardless if I bought all the boxes or not.
Thusly I have my accounts printed out and printed on the wall so I don't get tempted to fall into the WoW trap again. Whenever I talk finances I always lose with my girlfriend as she just points to the wall and say how stupid I was for paying thousands of dollars for a game I can't even play. /sadface
I was tricked into rhetoric such as "skip having coffee three times a month and it will pay itself" or some such, without looking at it in terms of equity and a business outlook. In the past when I played Ultima Online it was seen as more of an investment by my MMO friends. Many of them sold their accounts for tens of thousands of dollars due to ample real estate and riches/strengths their characters had. Nowadays companies bar you from doing this, and there's literally no value to your account. This is only relevant as to why I played it in the past and gladly paid thousands for a game I wouldn't have access to (in addition to bandwidth being more expensive). Nowadays I just plain feel ripped off with how cheap bandwidth is, and how we only typically got one patch every six months.
Was that patch ($90) ever equivalent to the five full games I could've got from Steam? Not even close, not even enough content that a single game would've had. Just a raid that only the 1% could play (even with LFR now it's still a rip).
With Final Fantasy I've experienced a progressing story with patches -- a real story with cutscenes and everything -- in the first version when they were improving the game. If they can manage this then I can manage the discounted price I will pay and feel it's at least somewhat worth it (not to mention they said there will likely be new classes with some patches as well).
The above demonstrates my point perfectly. $4000 paid by the user of the game and now what is left to show for it? They can't even access the game they paid $4000 for unless of course they pony up some more money.
i am not going to discuss with a unninformed guy, this game box cost 39,99$
Skyrim is a big AAA game sure it have more than 50 hours of gameplay, i played 20 and i got bored. Offline games are no more for me. and on Online games, plus, on Massive Multiplayer Online Games, these with subscription offer better game quality than your 1000+ free to play, buy to play games. Full of free accounts spamming, annoying, selling gold, with no gameplay quality, etc.
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So you payed 1600 bucks on a single game for 10 years of enterteinement... so bad true? i know people who wasted these money in a single year buying games and consoles. I can laught from the other one, you simple wasted 160 bucks per year.
showing high numbers dont impress me. Is not the same to say: I wasted 5200 bucks in alcohol my last 10 years.. than i go out once every 2 weeks and waste 20 bucks. (10 per week, 52 weeks per year, 10 years)
OMG i need help.. i am alcoholic.. 5200!!! .. oh wait, i go out once per 2 weeks.. is not so bad.
It costs money to run a game a monthly payment is a small token to people who worked hard to make and further improve the game. So many people I see complaining about p2p is ridiculous. I understand it's not for everyone but to act as though you are entitled to so much for nothing is a bit narrow minded.
they have no investors, they programmed, produced, distributed and maintain the game themself (yeah, they use their own Data center for servers and connection)
is not the same to have to pay thirds than see you are getting profit every year and dont care if you pay the game cost in 10 years.
Anyway, i am not P2P fan, this game have posibilities to be F2P if have not enough attention and i will play it anyway, but if it become annoy or it doesnt have freemium model (F2P with P2P posibilities) i will be out then.
Is funny that rifts one of the last big AAA titles is going ftp yet FF thinks it can go ptp and make a profit.
Not only did it pour tons of money into making 1.0 it went back and remade the game. How much money has been spent in the development of this game?
How do they figure on getting their invest back quickly when ptp has been met with at best a luck warm reception?
Star Wars the biggest ip failed at ptp, yet FF thinks it can make it?
Should we start taking bets now on how soon it goes ftp or btp? Its all ready in the pricing. Entry level at 12.99 becomes Free.
FFXIV 1.0 was p2p, many people payed. and those who saw past all the small problems saw potential for a great game. This is why they are remaking it. It did not live completely up to our standards. And those who love the game are still around, beta testing or eagerly awaiting the remake. We still have faith in them in making the best game possible, and yes, when the time comes we want to pay them for their hardwork and dedication to us. I WANT this game to be P2P.
How do they figure on getting their invest back quickly when ptp has been met with at best a luck warm reception?
There's no pressure for them to recoup the money back quickly since they're not reporting to third-party investors. This is a long term thing for them, especially since it's a numbered titled and they've dumped so much money into it. As long as they have a stable playerbase for a long time this game will back into the black. There's going to be the inevitable people leaving after the first few months for whatever reasons, but this game will be just as successful, if not more, than FFXI (which happens to be their most profitable game ever) IMO.
Originally posted by swizards01 I don't like to play a game that have subscription because it's not open to everyone and it's getting pretty boring. The real mmorpg is open to everybody. Every month, every year there is new release free 2 play mmo and more greater. I'm not happy i did not see my friends playing and i can't see more people. I am still looking a free 2 play mmo, not pay 2 win and there is a real money auction house. A MMO company that thinking different type of trading so no other website scam and no other website allowed giving discount. Very simple make a program the game coins can only trade in auction house not in the carracter.
Totally wrong, real MMORPG were always P2P, F2P is relatively new on this genre and in my opinion is just filling the genre with mediocre games that are just to get money from these rich gamers that dont care to pay 200$ to have best game gear, boost exps etc.
12$ per month is ridicully low when u see the cost of a mount on a F2P game. Inventory slots, Reset, Server change, Storage slots, dungeon access, etc. But i will not discuss between P2P and F2P, i just want a P2P game that give me AAA quality game with updates focused on gameplay and not on their online shop
It's not that $12/mo is expensive to people. The issue is the perceived value that they are getting for their $12/mo. I could easily afford to subscribe to tens of games at that price, but I don't see what I am getting for my money except paid access to a game. Alternatively I own well over 250+ titles that I can always access anytime for free after having paid the initial box price. Most fans of B2P and F2P see no benefit of the subscription outside of being able to access a game that has a P2P model. Everything else is the same as any F2P or B2P that wasn't thrown together as a pure cash grab.
If the $12 I give a company every month provides me no return outside of access to the game that's money wasted IMO.
I cant see the difference wasting 60 bucks on a game with 40-50 gameplay hours that you will put in box and forget it until apolcalypse day.
3 games bought per year are 180 bucks in 150 gameplay hours.
144 bucks on a year subscription (i am not using discounts per packs) give you access to 8760 hours every year.
I cant see your "acess" point when people waste money on 3 offline games that are completed in a week or two and cost 5 months of a P2P game.
And of course, the great difference between these 250+ titles you are talking about is that they are not AAA games.
Yeah, so your MMO also costs you $60 for the box as well plus expansions.
Who on PC actually pays $60 for a game? Every game price, on Steam in particular, is now based off making money on it's sale price of 50% off or more. I may have not paid full price for any game in years at this point.
It's no where near only single player games that I don't have to pay to access. At this point there are several AAA MMO's in the same boat; not to mention titles from every single genre. So I'm just paying said sub to be able to type in my user name and password and access a particular game world. That's all you get. Nothing more, nothing less.
Alternatively I could go play in 1000's of other worlds for free or the cost of the box/download. For me any game in 2013 with a sub model must be the greatest game on the planet and every other game must be trash if I'm willing to pay box price + $120+ per year to play that game. Alternatively I could get the same value for only spending $60 or most times even less to play tons of titles that span every single genre.
Also I'm not one of these folks that just picks a single MMO and plays nothing else ever. I'm a gamer I play tens of games per year not one.
Sadly your argument is rather antiquated and dated seeing as how you're under the impression that I can only get 40-50 hours out of a single title (Skyrim anyone?) and that it's only single player games that require a box purchase and nothing more or less (CoD, BF, PS2, GW2, Warframe, and about a billion other games).
Also I have to laugh at the fact that after 30 years of gaming you don't think I easily own 250+ AAA titles. I wasn't referring to indie crap I paid $1 for. Not to mention that's just looking at my Steam account it doesn't take into account every antiquated console whose games I've owned or the 100+ games for the current gen of consoles sitting at my house either.
Money and gaming is a non-issue for me. If I thought I actually got something worthwhile in return for my sub I'd easily pay it. The fact is I don't feel like I do and neither do many others (probably the majority at this point). You're obviously welcome to feel differently but I'd think you're opinion is foolish.
Originally posted by jollybean It costs money to run a game a monthly payment is a small token to people who worked hard to make and further improve the game. So many people I see complaining about p2p is ridiculous. I understand it's not for everyone but to act as though you are entitled to so much for nothing is a bit narrow minded.
That's bullshit says every single title that features multiplayer and therefore has servers but I don't pay any monthly fee at all.
i am not going to discuss with a unninformed guy, this game box cost 39,99$
Skyrim is a big AAA game sure it have more than 50 hours of gameplay, i played 20 and i got bored. Offline games are no more for me. and on Online games, plus, on Massive Multiplayer Online Games, these with subscription offer better game quality than your 1000+ free to play, buy to play games. Full of free accounts spamming, annoying, selling gold, with no gameplay quality, etc.
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So you payed 1600 bucks on a single game for 10 years of enterteinement... so bad true? i know people who wasted these money in a single year buying games and consoles. I can laught from the other one, you simple wasted 160 bucks per year.
showing high numbers dont impress me. Is not the same to say: I wasted 5200 bucks in alcohol my last 10 years.. than i go out once every 2 weeks and waste 20 bucks. (10 per week, 52 weeks per year, 10 years)
OMG i need help.. i am alcoholic.. 5200!!! .. oh wait, i go out once per 2 weeks.. is not so bad.
This argument is factually false "these with subscription offer better game quality than your 1000+ free to play, buy to play games." Therefore, I can no longer continue this discussion with you. Perhaps you should play some more games or do some reading and learn about video games before returning with a reply.
Originally posted by swizards01 I don't like to play a game that have subscription because it's not open to everyone and it's getting pretty boring. The real mmorpg is open to everybody. Every month, every year there is new release free 2 play mmo and more greater. I'm not happy i did not see my friends playing and i can't see more people. I am still looking a free 2 play mmo, not pay 2 win and there is a real money auction house. A MMO company that thinking different type of trading so no other website scam and no other website allowed giving discount. Very simple make a program the game coins can only trade in auction house not in the carracter.
Totally wrong, real MMORPG were always P2P, F2P is relatively new on this genre and in my opinion is just filling the genre with mediocre games that are just to get money from these rich gamers that dont care to pay 200$ to have best game gear, boost exps etc.
12$ per month is ridicully low when u see the cost of a mount on a F2P game. Inventory slots, Reset, Server change, Storage slots, dungeon access, etc. But i will not discuss between P2P and F2P, i just want a P2P game that give me AAA quality game with updates focused on gameplay and not on their online shop
It's not that $12/mo is expensive to people. The issue is the perceived value that they are getting for their $12/mo. I could easily afford to subscribe to tens of games at that price, but I don't see what I am getting for my money except paid access to a game. Alternatively I own well over 250+ titles that I can always access anytime for free after having paid the initial box price. Most fans of B2P and F2P see no benefit of the subscription outside of being able to access a game that has a P2P model. Everything else is the same as any F2P or B2P that wasn't thrown together as a pure cash grab.
If the $12 I give a company every month provides me no return outside of access to the game that's money wasted IMO.
I cant see the difference wasting 60 bucks on a game with 40-50 gameplay hours that you will put in box and forget it until apolcalypse day.
3 games bought per year are 180 bucks in 150 gameplay hours.
144 bucks on a year subscription (i am not using discounts per packs) give you access to 8760 hours every year.
I cant see your "acess" point when people waste money on 3 offline games that are completed in a week or two and cost 5 months of a P2P game.
And of course, the great difference between these 250+ titles you are talking about is that they are not AAA games.
Yeah, so your MMO also costs you $60 for the box as well plus expansions.
Who on PC actually pays $60 for a game? Every game price, on Steam in particular, is now based off making money on it's sale price of 50% off or more. I may have not paid full price for any game in years at this point.
It's no where near only single player games that I don't have to pay to access. At this point there are several AAA MMO's in the same boat; not to mention titles from every single genre. So I'm just paying said sub to be able to type in my user name and password and access a particular game world. That's all you get. Nothing more, nothing less.
Alternatively I could go play in 1000's of other worlds for free or the cost of the box/download. For me any game in 2013 with a sub model must be the greatest game on the planet and every other game must be trash if I'm willing to pay box price + $120+ per year to play that game. Alternatively I could get the same value for only spending $60 or most times even less to play tons of titles that span every single genre.
Also I'm not one of these folks that just picks a single MMO and plays nothing else ever. I'm a gamer I play tens of games per year not one.
Sadly your argument is rather antiquated and dated seeing as how you're under the impression that I can only get 40-50 hours out of a single title (Skyrim anyone?) and that it's only single player games that require a box purchase and nothing more or less (CoD, BF, PS2, GW2, Warframe, and about a billion other games).
Also I have to laugh at the fact that after 30 years of gaming you don't think I easily own 250+ AAA titles. I wasn't referring to indie crap I paid $1 for. Not to mention that's just looking at my Steam account it doesn't take into account every antiquated console whose games I've owned or the 100+ games for the current gen of consoles sitting at my house either.
Money and gaming is a non-issue for me. If I thought I actually got something worthwhile in return for my sub I'd easily pay it. The fact is I don't feel like I do and neither do many others (probably the majority at this point). You're obviously welcome to feel differently but I'd think you're opinion is foolish.
them ftp games are garbage tho
SOME ftp games are garbage would be an accurate statement. It's 2013 if you still think ALL ftp games are garbage then you're living in the dark ages. Also I'm not only referring to F2P titles - every single multiplayer and single player title outside of MMO's is able to function perfectly fine without a subscription fee. Why is that?
Originally posted by swizards01 I don't like to play a game that have subscription because it's not open to everyone and it's getting pretty boring. The real mmorpg is open to everybody. Every month, every year there is new release free 2 play mmo and more greater. I'm not happy i did not see my friends playing and i can't see more people. I am still looking a free 2 play mmo, not pay 2 win and there is a real money auction house. A MMO company that thinking different type of trading so no other website scam and no other website allowed giving discount. Very simple make a program the game coins can only trade in auction house not in the carracter.
Totally wrong, real MMORPG were always P2P, F2P is relatively new on this genre and in my opinion is just filling the genre with mediocre games that are just to get money from these rich gamers that dont care to pay 200$ to have best game gear, boost exps etc.
12$ per month is ridicully low when u see the cost of a mount on a F2P game. Inventory slots, Reset, Server change, Storage slots, dungeon access, etc. But i will not discuss between P2P and F2P, i just want a P2P game that give me AAA quality game with updates focused on gameplay and not on their online shop
It's not that $12/mo is expensive to people. The issue is the perceived value that they are getting for their $12/mo. I could easily afford to subscribe to tens of games at that price, but I don't see what I am getting for my money except paid access to a game. Alternatively I own well over 250+ titles that I can always access anytime for free after having paid the initial box price. Most fans of B2P and F2P see no benefit of the subscription outside of being able to access a game that has a P2P model. Everything else is the same as any F2P or B2P that wasn't thrown together as a pure cash grab.
If the $12 I give a company every month provides me no return outside of access to the game that's money wasted IMO.
I cant see the difference wasting 60 bucks on a game with 40-50 gameplay hours that you will put in box and forget it until apolcalypse day.
3 games bought per year are 180 bucks in 150 gameplay hours.
144 bucks on a year subscription (i am not using discounts per packs) give you access to 8760 hours every year.
I cant see your "acess" point when people waste money on 3 offline games that are completed in a week or two and cost 5 months of a P2P game.
And of course, the great difference between these 250+ titles you are talking about is that they are not AAA games.
Yeah, so your MMO also costs you $60 for the box as well plus expansions.
Who on PC actually pays $60 for a game? Every game price, on Steam in particular, is now based off making money on it's sale price of 50% off or more. I may have not paid full price for any game in years at this point.
It's no where near only single player games that I don't have to pay to access. At this point there are several AAA MMO's in the same boat; not to mention titles from every single genre. So I'm just paying said sub to be able to type in my user name and password and access a particular game world. That's all you get. Nothing more, nothing less.
Alternatively I could go play in 1000's of other worlds for free or the cost of the box/download. For me any game in 2013 with a sub model must be the greatest game on the planet and every other game must be trash if I'm willing to pay box price + $120+ per year to play that game. Alternatively I could get the same value for only spending $60 or most times even less to play tons of titles that span every single genre.
Also I'm not one of these folks that just picks a single MMO and plays nothing else ever. I'm a gamer I play tens of games per year not one.
Sadly your argument is rather antiquated and dated seeing as how you're under the impression that I can only get 40-50 hours out of a single title (Skyrim anyone?) and that it's only single player games that require a box purchase and nothing more or less (CoD, BF, PS2, GW2, Warframe, and about a billion other games).
Also I have to laugh at the fact that after 30 years of gaming you don't think I easily own 250+ AAA titles. I wasn't referring to indie crap I paid $1 for. Not to mention that's just looking at my Steam account it doesn't take into account every antiquated console whose games I've owned or the 100+ games for the current gen of consoles sitting at my house either.
Money and gaming is a non-issue for me. If I thought I actually got something worthwhile in return for my sub I'd easily pay it. The fact is I don't feel like I do and neither do many others (probably the majority at this point). You're obviously welcome to feel differently but I'd think you're opinion is foolish.
them ftp games are garbage tho
SOME ftp games are garbage would be an accurate statement. It's 2013 if you still think ALL ftp games are garbage then you're living in the dark ages still.
only good i know of is gw2 and that game is boring i hate the other ftp games that went form p2p wasnt worth that either. i actyully speend more money in ftp games to cause you know i cant get everythign in game if its ftp and id ont fork over cash i rather have the 12 a month and have excess to all the content
Originally posted by swizards01 I don't like to play a game that have subscription because it's not open to everyone and it's getting pretty boring. The real mmorpg is open to everybody. Every month, every year there is new release free 2 play mmo and more greater. I'm not happy i did not see my friends playing and i can't see more people. I am still looking a free 2 play mmo, not pay 2 win and there is a real money auction house. A MMO company that thinking different type of trading so no other website scam and no other website allowed giving discount. Very simple make a program the game coins can only trade in auction house not in the carracter.
Totally wrong, real MMORPG were always P2P, F2P is relatively new on this genre and in my opinion is just filling the genre with mediocre games that are just to get money from these rich gamers that dont care to pay 200$ to have best game gear, boost exps etc.
12$ per month is ridicully low when u see the cost of a mount on a F2P game. Inventory slots, Reset, Server change, Storage slots, dungeon access, etc. But i will not discuss between P2P and F2P, i just want a P2P game that give me AAA quality game with updates focused on gameplay and not on their online shop
It's not that $12/mo is expensive to people. The issue is the perceived value that they are getting for their $12/mo. I could easily afford to subscribe to tens of games at that price, but I don't see what I am getting for my money except paid access to a game. Alternatively I own well over 250+ titles that I can always access anytime for free after having paid the initial box price. Most fans of B2P and F2P see no benefit of the subscription outside of being able to access a game that has a P2P model. Everything else is the same as any F2P or B2P that wasn't thrown together as a pure cash grab.
If the $12 I give a company every month provides me no return outside of access to the game that's money wasted IMO.
I cant see the difference wasting 60 bucks on a game with 40-50 gameplay hours that you will put in box and forget it until apolcalypse day.
3 games bought per year are 180 bucks in 150 gameplay hours.
144 bucks on a year subscription (i am not using discounts per packs) give you access to 8760 hours every year.
I cant see your "acess" point when people waste money on 3 offline games that are completed in a week or two and cost 5 months of a P2P game.
And of course, the great difference between these 250+ titles you are talking about is that they are not AAA games.
Yeah, so your MMO also costs you $60 for the box as well plus expansions.
Who on PC actually pays $60 for a game? Every game price, on Steam in particular, is now based off making money on it's sale price of 50% off or more. I may have not paid full price for any game in years at this point.
It's no where near only single player games that I don't have to pay to access. At this point there are several AAA MMO's in the same boat; not to mention titles from every single genre. So I'm just paying said sub to be able to type in my user name and password and access a particular game world. That's all you get. Nothing more, nothing less.
Alternatively I could go play in 1000's of other worlds for free or the cost of the box/download. For me any game in 2013 with a sub model must be the greatest game on the planet and every other game must be trash if I'm willing to pay box price + $120+ per year to play that game. Alternatively I could get the same value for only spending $60 or most times even less to play tons of titles that span every single genre.
Also I'm not one of these folks that just picks a single MMO and plays nothing else ever. I'm a gamer I play tens of games per year not one.
Sadly your argument is rather antiquated and dated seeing as how you're under the impression that I can only get 40-50 hours out of a single title (Skyrim anyone?) and that it's only single player games that require a box purchase and nothing more or less (CoD, BF, PS2, GW2, Warframe, and about a billion other games).
Also I have to laugh at the fact that after 30 years of gaming you don't think I easily own 250+ AAA titles. I wasn't referring to indie crap I paid $1 for. Not to mention that's just looking at my Steam account it doesn't take into account every antiquated console whose games I've owned or the 100+ games for the current gen of consoles sitting at my house either.
Money and gaming is a non-issue for me. If I thought I actually got something worthwhile in return for my sub I'd easily pay it. The fact is I don't feel like I do and neither do many others (probably the majority at this point). You're obviously welcome to feel differently but I'd think you're opinion is foolish.
them ftp games are garbage tho
SOME ftp games are garbage would be an accurate statement. It's 2013 if you still think ALL ftp games are garbage then you're living in the dark ages still.
only good i know of is gw2 and that game is boring i hate the other ftp games that went form p2p wasnt worth that either
That's opinion though. I'm not saying that you will enjoy all F2P or B2P titles either. However, GW2 and TSW for example are unarguably AAA titles. You may not like them, but they're not inferior products when compared to P2P just because they're not to your taste. You wouldn't like GW2 whether it was P2P or not.
Perfect example of an amazing F2P title (in many people's, 35? million, opinion) - League of Legends. Regardless of whether you enjoy the game or not it's definitely not an inferior game.
Comments
It's not that $12/mo is expensive to people. The issue is the perceived value that they are getting for their $12/mo. I could easily afford to subscribe to tens of games at that price, but I don't see what I am getting for my money except paid access to a game. Alternatively I own well over 250+ titles that I can always access anytime for free after having paid the initial box price. Most fans of B2P and F2P see no benefit of the subscription outside of being able to access a game that has a P2P model. Everything else is the same as any F2P or B2P that wasn't thrown together as a pure cash grab.
If the $12 I give a company every month provides me no return outside of access to the game that's money wasted IMO.
Steam: Neph
I cant see the difference wasting 60 bucks on a game with 40-50 gameplay hours that you will put in box and forget it until apolcalypse day.
3 games bought per year are 180 bucks in 150 gameplay hours.
144 bucks on a year subscription (i am not using discounts per packs) give you access to 8760 hours every year.
I cant see your "acess" point when people waste money on 3 offline games that are completed in a week or two and cost 5 months of a P2P game.
And of course, the great difference between these 250+ titles you are talking about is that they are not AAA games.
Yeah, so your MMO also costs you $60 for the box as well plus expansions.
Who on PC actually pays $60 for a game? Every game price, on Steam in particular, is now based off making money on it's sale price of 50% off or more. I may have not paid full price for any game in years at this point.
It's no where near only single player games that I don't have to pay to access. At this point there are several AAA MMO's in the same boat; not to mention titles from every single genre. So I'm just paying said sub to be able to type in my user name and password and access a particular game world. That's all you get. Nothing more, nothing less.
Alternatively I could go play in 1000's of other worlds for free or the cost of the box/download. For me any game in 2013 with a sub model must be the greatest game on the planet and every other game must be trash if I'm willing to pay box price + $120+ per year to play that game. Alternatively I could get the same value for only spending $60 or most times even less to play tons of titles that span every single genre.
Also I'm not one of these folks that just picks a single MMO and plays nothing else ever. I'm a gamer I play tens of games per year not one.
Sadly your argument is rather antiquated and dated seeing as how you're under the impression that I can only get 40-50 hours out of a single title (Skyrim anyone?) and that it's only single player games that require a box purchase and nothing more or less (CoD, BF, PS2, GW2, Warframe, and about a billion other games).
Also I have to laugh at the fact that after 30 years of gaming you don't think I easily own 250+ AAA titles. I wasn't referring to indie crap I paid $1 for. Not to mention that's just looking at my Steam account it doesn't take into account every antiquated console whose games I've owned or the 100+ games for the current gen of consoles sitting at my house either.
Money and gaming is a non-issue for me. If I thought I actually got something worthwhile in return for my sub I'd easily pay it. The fact is I don't feel like I do and neither do many others (probably the majority at this point). You're obviously welcome to feel differently but I'd think you're opinion is foolish.
Steam: Neph
I'm fairly anti P2P lately, though I plan on playing and support Square (especially since I get a huge discount on the monthly fee) with this game due to the lengths they went to completely remake it (and apologize profusely for past mistakes).
But as a whole, the main reason I no longer play P2P games is because of World of Warcraft (and others). To date I've spent almost four thousand dollars on that game (1600 in monthly fees for one account pf which I have multiple accounts), plus the box prices for all those collectors editions and server transfers etc. Four thousand for one game that I was essentially only renting and can no longer play as my characters are essentially being held for ransom every month.
I feel utterly ashamed when I say I spent four grand on a single game, and then get the usual response from my friends (who weren't MMO players) "That must be the best damn game in the world to pay that much more". The sad thing is, I can't play a game I pay that much for as I don't really "own" and despite all that money can't access it regardless if I bought all the boxes or not.
Thusly I have my accounts printed out and printed on the wall so I don't get tempted to fall into the WoW trap again. Whenever I talk finances I always lose with my girlfriend as she just points to the wall and say how stupid I was for paying thousands of dollars for a game I can't even play. /sadface
I was tricked into rhetoric such as "skip having coffee three times a month and it will pay itself" or some such, without looking at it in terms of equity and a business outlook. In the past when I played Ultima Online it was seen as more of an investment by my MMO friends. Many of them sold their accounts for tens of thousands of dollars due to ample real estate and riches/strengths their characters had. Nowadays companies bar you from doing this, and there's literally no value to your account. This is only relevant as to why I played it in the past and gladly paid thousands for a game I wouldn't have access to (in addition to bandwidth being more expensive). Nowadays I just plain feel ripped off with how cheap bandwidth is, and how we only typically got one patch every six months.
Was that patch ($90) ever equivalent to the five full games I could've got from Steam? Not even close, not even enough content that a single game would've had. Just a raid that only the 1% could play (even with LFR now it's still a rip).
With Final Fantasy I've experienced a progressing story with patches -- a real story with cutscenes and everything -- in the first version when they were improving the game. If they can manage this then I can manage the discounted price I will pay and feel it's at least somewhat worth it (not to mention they said there will likely be new classes with some patches as well).
Thus, I would gladly support Square Enix in this endeavor as they've shown great stuff, and have proven to me that my money is being well invested what with the storyline and content they offer in return.
The above demonstrates my point perfectly. $4000 paid by the user of the game and now what is left to show for it? They can't even access the game they paid $4000 for unless of course they pony up some more money.
Steam: Neph
i am not going to discuss with a unninformed guy, this game box cost 39,99$
Skyrim is a big AAA game sure it have more than 50 hours of gameplay, i played 20 and i got bored. Offline games are no more for me. and on Online games, plus, on Massive Multiplayer Online Games, these with subscription offer better game quality than your 1000+ free to play, buy to play games. Full of free accounts spamming, annoying, selling gold, with no gameplay quality, etc.
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So you payed 1600 bucks on a single game for 10 years of enterteinement... so bad true? i know people who wasted these money in a single year buying games and consoles. I can laught from the other one, you simple wasted 160 bucks per year.
showing high numbers dont impress me. Is not the same to say: I wasted 5200 bucks in alcohol my last 10 years.. than i go out once every 2 weeks and waste 20 bucks. (10 per week, 52 weeks per year, 10 years)
OMG i need help.. i am alcoholic.. 5200!!! .. oh wait, i go out once per 2 weeks.. is not so bad.
Is funny that rifts one of the last big AAA titles is going ftp yet FF thinks it can go ptp and make a profit.
Not only did it pour tons of money into making 1.0 it went back and remade the game. How much money has been spent in the development of this game?
How do they figure on getting their invest back quickly when ptp has been met with at best a luck warm reception?
Star Wars the biggest ip failed at ptp, yet FF thinks it can make it?
Should we start taking bets now on how soon it goes ftp or btp? Its all ready in the pricing. Entry level at 12.99 becomes Free.
I'm interested in trying it. Looks like it might be fun
I self identify as a monkey.
they have no investors, they programmed, produced, distributed and maintain the game themself (yeah, they use their own Data center for servers and connection)
is not the same to have to pay thirds than see you are getting profit every year and dont care if you pay the game cost in 10 years.
Anyway, i am not P2P fan, this game have posibilities to be F2P if have not enough attention and i will play it anyway, but if it become annoy or it doesnt have freemium model (F2P with P2P posibilities) i will be out then.
FFXIV 1.0 was p2p, many people payed. and those who saw past all the small problems saw potential for a great game. This is why they are remaking it. It did not live completely up to our standards. And those who love the game are still around, beta testing or eagerly awaiting the remake. We still have faith in them in making the best game possible, and yes, when the time comes we want to pay them for their hardwork and dedication to us. I WANT this game to be P2P.
There's no pressure for them to recoup the money back quickly since they're not reporting to third-party investors. This is a long term thing for them, especially since it's a numbered titled and they've dumped so much money into it. As long as they have a stable playerbase for a long time this game will back into the black. There's going to be the inevitable people leaving after the first few months for whatever reasons, but this game will be just as successful, if not more, than FFXI (which happens to be their most profitable game ever) IMO.
them ftp games are garbage tho
Sub fee? It's like they want this to fail
This game has nowhere near the same love as FF11 and a sub fee for 1.0 caused this to happen so they can't pull this crap a third time
That's bullshit says every single title that features multiplayer and therefore has servers but I don't pay any monthly fee at all.
Steam: Neph
This argument is factually false "these with subscription offer better game quality than your 1000+ free to play, buy to play games." Therefore, I can no longer continue this discussion with you. Perhaps you should play some more games or do some reading and learn about video games before returning with a reply.
Steam: Neph
rift is broing and bland
SOME ftp games are garbage would be an accurate statement. It's 2013 if you still think ALL ftp games are garbage then you're living in the dark ages. Also I'm not only referring to F2P titles - every single multiplayer and single player title outside of MMO's is able to function perfectly fine without a subscription fee. Why is that?
Steam: Neph
i think it has more love actully the housing system is on a diffreant level than ffxis
only good i know of is gw2 and that game is boring i hate the other ftp games that went form p2p wasnt worth that either. i actyully speend more money in ftp games to cause you know i cant get everythign in game if its ftp and id ont fork over cash i rather have the 12 a month and have excess to all the content
That's opinion though. I'm not saying that you will enjoy all F2P or B2P titles either. However, GW2 and TSW for example are unarguably AAA titles. You may not like them, but they're not inferior products when compared to P2P just because they're not to your taste. You wouldn't like GW2 whether it was P2P or not.
Perfect example of an amazing F2P title (in many people's, 35? million, opinion) - League of Legends. Regardless of whether you enjoy the game or not it's definitely not an inferior game.
Steam: Neph
F2P are for casuals, if you want to have ALL of a f2p game you have to spend a fortune. If you want to have all on P2P game, you only need time.
Is a fact.
If a game is worth a sub i will pay it.
If it aint i wont even look at it.
The worste money i ever spend was on SWTOR....i bought 2 copy's with 2x sub and it costed me around 160 euro's....
Just praying SE blow me away for the 1st time in a long long time of disapointments.