There are two trends in gaming right now ,well maybe 3,pvp,Esports and end game.
huh? I dont see pvp and esports remotely as trends in the mmorpg industry.
PvP is what its always been and esports is something I would imagine 99% of players dont care about remotely. And end game? The games that have been built around fast leveling and 'game begins at endgame' like Rift seem to not do so well.
WoW have more than 10 mill of players, and even when 90% of that number are from the asian market, we are talking about money and 10 mill of players. Titan or WoW 2 wont happen anytime soon at least they lost more than the 50% of their playerbase, Thats the WoW curse.
After reading the many replies there have been some really interesting conjecture. I like the fact that someone in the know has revealed that Titan is as huge as 'Google' .... that really does back up one of my original points that they are trying to please and cater for too many people and that it would take forever .....
...this is a question though .... would it be possible to turn what they have done with Titan so far and merge it into what could be a sort of Warcraft 2 or World's of Starcraft with Orc's etc. I do think they still have the major MMO IP and really do need to upgrade it and if it takes so long 'not' to be even close to release 'Titan', how archaic would WOW be by the time they got round to making a new one ..... unless Titan is in fact a sort of Bizzard Allstar's where a Night Elf Hunter could be battling it out against a Protoss Templar until both of them get consumed by a Guild of Zerg's and Orc's. ..... ........oooo dangerously similar to Wildstar . ......which again goes back to my original post ......
They really do have to start announcing something a little more definite direction ..... maybe Blizzcon is going to be way more interesting for folks than we yet realize .......
Blizzard is not in a hurry. They can milk WoW for at least a year or two in it's current form and then make a switch to F2P or even make Third person view MOBA with WoW engine.
If, and only if, Wildstar, TESO or something else makes a big impact, Blizzard will get their act together. Until then, Titan will remain on the drawing board, waiting to copy features of some new big thing and improve upon it.
Depending on how well its done, a 100% sandbox EQNext would be a complete failure because it would basically be an empty world with players crafting and creating everything from scratch - the masses hate this.
so you have to have make it just the right mix of developer created content (themepark) and then give players the tools to change some aspects of the game and world in a meaningful way (sandbox).
EQNext must have themepark and sandbox elements blended perfectly to be successful, and that so far has been proven to be very difficult to pull off.
ArcheAge does it quite well - IMO best hybrid on the market, we will see if EQN can do it even better.
If you were to pitch EvE Online today people would be saying the same thing: the masses would hate this. And for the most part the masses do, or they wont even try it.
There are already generic for the masses games. The masses have the countless generic themeparks like Rift that try to please everyone. The niche for fantasy PvE sandbox is most likely significantly greater than the niche for sci fi PvP sandbox where you control a ship.
You are right that there needs to be some devloper created content though. A pure sandbox is boring. But developer created content =/= themepark. there doesnt need to be quest hubs (the core of themepark play) or instances. But something like the EQ1 dungeons, thats developer created content yet its still fairly open ended.
The most important developer created content is quests. The game will fail without them, but no, not the Rift/WoW type minor quests that queue up 5 at a time and finish them in 10 minutes. More like some of the bigger EQ1 type quests or the EQ2 Heritage quests...multiple zones, meant to be done over multiple levels, something that when you are done you know you have accomplished something
ArcheAge is dead to most people because its PvP centric (and eastern). As far as people that dont like forced PvP are concerned ArcheAge doesnt exist.
Eve online is the ONLY mmo that have been growing year after year. from 2003 to 2013 they never bleeded subs, they increased it..... Dunno wtf you talk about when you say -12% ?
Blizzard pissed off alot of people, they will never eer reachthat number again with any product. They showed that in each expansion and each game released after 2007. I think WoW 2.0 wont be comming, the lore is ruined and if WoW 2.0 would be made they need to import all the races and fake shit they released past expansions. And many people hate panda's and the lobby game it had become today.
+ Wildstar is already comming out wich might be the mmo alot of wow players are looking forward to as Blizzard just doesnt seem to know how to make the game fun again. Daily's / Bot Battlegrounds / Random Raid / Random Dungeon / Death servers and we can go on and on and on why people are pissed off.
Dont forget that there are realy good mmo's comming out, maybe the best we have ever soon in the history of mmo's.
EQN Wildstar ESO FF ARR WoD
That list is insane, people wont be playing 1 or 2 mmo's like 10/15 years ago, they got so many choice in good mmo's that no mmo will hold 80% of the total mmo players anymore.
WoW 2.0 woulnt make it in that list. They need to come up with something totaly diffrent Titan would have been that, but it prolly was a total mess.
Blizzard should use a current IP like Starcraft / Diablo, those would do better then another WoW tbh.
Originally posted by Thupli I don't understand why people in this thread say that blizzard is somehow incapable of making a sandbox either with wow 2 or Titan.
Because they have no experience in making such games and to get it right you need experience on all levels?
I see no reason for Blizzard to be any sort of hurry to get a new game out. WoW makes them millions, consistently. Their best bet is probably to continue nourishing that project.
WoW 2 makes no sense. It wouldtarget the same exact demographic that WoW is already targeting.
I wonder if any of this really even matters. The Blizzard that created all of the games that made Blizzard great no longer exists. As of now they're just another big name developer. Who's to say their next MMO will really be anything special? /shrug
WoW gets older and older, and the decline of the game might start snowballing sooner or later, it's entirely possible that Blizzard has re-evaluated the situation and perhaps WoW 2 isnt all that bad move afterall when WoW still has nice amount of players.
The game also has a huge amount of ex-players who would possibly jump back in with modern graphics, and most of all, modern game engine able to support all kinds of fancy stuff you expect to see in games today.
It's a huge familiar setting to a huge number of gamers. There's countless amount of people who keep saying that they would love to play WoW if it had modern feature palette. Blizzard also has stated many times that they would love to add all kinds of stuff into WoW but they cant because the engine is from stone age. Perhaps they decided that it's time to add that stuff in.
Originally posted by Thupli I don't understand why people in this thread say that blizzard is somehow incapable of making a sandbox either with wow 2 or Titan.
Because they have no experience in making such games and to get it right you need experience on all levels?
because CCP had so much experience?
anti-WoW/anti-blizzard people are so amusing with the things they say...
WoW gets older and older, and the decline of the game might start snowballing sooner or later, it's entirely possible that Blizzard has re-evaluated the situation and perhaps WoW 2 isnt all that bad move afterall when WoW still has nice amount of players.
The game also has a huge amount of ex-players who would possibly jump back in with modern graphics, and most of all, modern game engine able to support all kinds of fancy stuff you expect to see in games today.
It's a huge familiar setting to a huge number of gamers. There's countless amount of people who keep saying that they would love to play WoW if it had modern feature palette. Blizzard also has stated many times that they would love to add all kinds of stuff into WoW but they cant because the engine is from stone age. Perhaps they decided that it's time to add that stuff in.
....I agree. Also it would be a 'safe' bet for them too. Of course it's not re-inventing the wheel but because it has been a long while since originally launched I imagine people would flock back or remain..............though the second time round I would wish they would switch from Harley's to Chariot's .... never been really keen on adding contemporary imagery in with Fantasy. Time travel is a different issue but the combustion engine has no place in the present WOW.
Someone earlier suggested that Titan or the speculation regarding it as a 'Red Herring' ... can totally see this point. Even the Word Titan conjures up different images ..... A planet maybe, A greek monster from the depth's evoking the power of God's .... or just ....it's Huge ..... I have no doubt the latter is true. I bet there'a an Orc in there somewhere ....
Originally posted by Thupli I don't understand why people in this thread say that blizzard is somehow incapable of making a sandbox either with wow 2 or Titan.
Because they have no experience in making such games and to get it right you need experience on all levels?
because CCP had so much experience?
Or Blizzard when making WoW, for that matter.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
My money would be on a Starcraft MMO although maybe not full MMORPG.
Twitch combat, lobby, lots of phasing, lots of bg / arena pvp.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
With Titan or WOW 2 I can certainly see where they would want players to stamp their existence within the game. Wildstar's Home / Building program seems to allow folks the chance to bring individuality into the game and I thing this could extend into larger Guild orientated structures like Forts and Castles or even Spaceports.
This of course is a Sandbox element. Also I think the scale of environments dictates to a degree weather a game 'feels' like a themepark or not. I remember playing the vanilla WOW and trekking for miles and miles, particularly in the Arathi Highlands mining my head off to raise enough gold to get a mount. Also the open PvP around Hillsbrad was amazing .... a proper old fashioned 'rumble'. Even though I played horde for many years one staggering memory I had was sauntering up the road as an early level Human Warrior and having to stand to the side as an endless trail of mounted Taurens and Orc's surged towards Stormwind......and very importantly .... could lay siege (kill everyone in sight) without having to join a queue or a loading screen.
I think modern additions of 'Quest Trackers' are to blame for that Themepark feel ...... in Neverwinter you just have to follow Tinkerbell and you're there ... well another loading screen.....this I think is very poor for an MMO.
Freedom is the key. If you want to be part of a believable online world, scope, scale and the flexibility to allow the personality of a player to have a direct physical impact is paramount ......... give folks the building blocks and they will build cities and vehicles that will blow your socks off.
Real environments with temperature impacting on different races ... wind actually blowing a gale and a 'real' force of energy. Maybe even season's. The closer to a 'real' world you can get the more convincing it is ....... I still think in Guild Wars 2 when running in snow you should leave footprints etc ..... it's slightly lazy in this respect ....a small point but irritating.
i personally believe Titan is WoW 2 and they pulled people off the Titan team to help make the next WoW expansion a huge burning legion themed xpac that will hold us over and lead into WoW 2.Anybody that still plays WoW and has done the Wrathion storyline will know that there is allot of foreshadowing of a stand off with the Burning Legion which could potentially setup WoW 2.
I would LOVE a WoW 2.0...LOVE IT! Horde lead by Thralls son, Alliance by who gives a shit! LOVE IT. Or perhaps make it as a prequil...we get to see (maybe play) Hellscream
Blizzard is unlike other companies, they have the means to delay and redo a game as long as they like. And they are not stupid.
I don't believe it'll be another theme park now. Seeing how all the posts WoW have "fail" . And seeing the fans' reaction to D3, they know that players will no longer settle for something mediocre, something that is based on past success anymore.
I believe it will still be a new IP, but totally driving in a new direction , maybe even a direction that no MMO has ever done before.
They need this new MMO to be special, so that they can once again have the same or even better success than WoW.
They have "fail" in D3, and if they "fail" again in Titans, than their name and business is all but lost.
I don't think they have failed at making World of Warcraft. It's true the game has passed through several stages, attracting different kinds of players, but overall, the game was a resounding success. Nowadays, the game is slowly decaying due to the huge range of products in the games market (MMO or not) But we have to acknowledge that WoW was the best product out there for many years (only EVE Online can be considered its competitor in that period, but they were totally different games) Diablo 3, was a totally different story, nowadays is slowly becoming what it should have been on its launch date, but there are better games like Path of Exile.
Aside from Hearthstone, which I am following very closely, Project Titan could be what Blizzard needs to be again ahead of the gaming industry. Not disclosing what the game is about, is a very good strategy, since fans are usually a factor that could make the game crash in the Failure Swamp (or not, but in Blizzard's case, they are very demanding) It's a better idea to give developers their own pace to do things, and not to rush creativity. Also, being a new franchise it's positive, because they aren't pressured by their own success.
I'm eagerly waiting for this game. Hoping that it creates a new kind of gameplay, or something never seen in MMOs.
WOW 2 would be fun with a all new graphics engine and content update.Among the MMOs I play today is GW2, the game doesn't lag for me, not even in zerg battles in WvWvW with everything to max.Seeing the dragons, graphics, scenery there, imagine only those graphics used on a WOW2 franchise.... ....damn.
I would love for this to happen. However, WoW still has a large enough player base and still generates enough revenue that its worth it for Blizzard to continue milking it for awhile. I think its already been said that Titan is not WoW2. Even though a lot of WoW players will undoubtedly move over to Titan upon its release, I don't think it will take players from WoW on as large of a scale as an actual WoW sequel would. So I think Blizzard is going to make Titan something else entirely, it'll be awesome, and their next MMO will be WoW 2. What do you guys think? Accurate?
wow 2 never ended up happening . it was suppose to be after the expansion cataclysm which blizzard had said was the last expansion for wow . but the player base drop probably made blizzard scrap the idea like starcraft ghost . in short its never going to happen . because they pay the bills at blizzard with diablo and starcraft money . there just keeping wow around because if they shut it down without replacing it they look bad so it ends up the low end pc game that they have that no one cares about
Comments
huh? I dont see pvp and esports remotely as trends in the mmorpg industry.
PvP is what its always been and esports is something I would imagine 99% of players dont care about remotely. And end game? The games that have been built around fast leveling and 'game begins at endgame' like Rift seem to not do so well.
After reading the many replies there have been some really interesting conjecture. I like the fact that someone in the know has revealed that Titan is as huge as 'Google' .... that really does back up one of my original points that they are trying to please and cater for too many people and that it would take forever .....
...this is a question though .... would it be possible to turn what they have done with Titan so far and merge it into what could be a sort of Warcraft 2 or World's of Starcraft with Orc's etc. I do think they still have the major MMO IP and really do need to upgrade it and if it takes so long 'not' to be even close to release 'Titan', how archaic would WOW be by the time they got round to making a new one ..... unless Titan is in fact a sort of Bizzard Allstar's where a Night Elf Hunter could be battling it out against a Protoss Templar until both of them get consumed by a Guild of Zerg's and Orc's. ..... ........oooo dangerously similar to Wildstar . ......which again goes back to my original post ......
They really do have to start announcing something a little more definite direction ..... maybe Blizzcon is going to be way more interesting for folks than we yet realize .......
Blizzard is not in a hurry. They can milk WoW for at least a year or two in it's current form and then make a switch to F2P or even make Third person view MOBA with WoW engine.
If, and only if, Wildstar, TESO or something else makes a big impact, Blizzard will get their act together. Until then, Titan will remain on the drawing board, waiting to copy features of some new big thing and improve upon it.
If you were to pitch EvE Online today people would be saying the same thing: the masses would hate this. And for the most part the masses do, or they wont even try it.
There are already generic for the masses games. The masses have the countless generic themeparks like Rift that try to please everyone. The niche for fantasy PvE sandbox is most likely significantly greater than the niche for sci fi PvP sandbox where you control a ship.
You are right that there needs to be some devloper created content though. A pure sandbox is boring. But developer created content =/= themepark. there doesnt need to be quest hubs (the core of themepark play) or instances. But something like the EQ1 dungeons, thats developer created content yet its still fairly open ended.
The most important developer created content is quests. The game will fail without them, but no, not the Rift/WoW type minor quests that queue up 5 at a time and finish them in 10 minutes. More like some of the bigger EQ1 type quests or the EQ2 Heritage quests...multiple zones, meant to be done over multiple levels, something that when you are done you know you have accomplished something
ArcheAge is dead to most people because its PvP centric (and eastern). As far as people that dont like forced PvP are concerned ArcheAge doesnt exist.
Eve online is the ONLY mmo that have been growing year after year.
from 2003 to 2013 they never bleeded subs, they increased it.....
Dunno wtf you talk about when you say -12% ?
Blizzard pissed off alot of people, they will never eer reachthat number again with any product.
They showed that in each expansion and each game released after 2007.
I think WoW 2.0 wont be comming, the lore is ruined and if WoW 2.0 would be made they need to import all the races and fake shit they released past expansions.
And many people hate panda's and the lobby game it had become today.
+ Wildstar is already comming out wich might be the mmo alot of wow players are looking forward to as Blizzard just doesnt seem to know how to make the game fun again.
Daily's / Bot Battlegrounds / Random Raid / Random Dungeon / Death servers and we can go on and on and on why people are pissed off.
Dont forget that there are realy good mmo's comming out, maybe the best we have ever soon in the history of mmo's.
EQN
Wildstar
ESO
FF ARR
WoD
That list is insane, people wont be playing 1 or 2 mmo's like 10/15 years ago, they got so many choice in good mmo's that no mmo will hold 80% of the total mmo players anymore.
WoW 2.0 woulnt make it in that list.
They need to come up with something totaly diffrent Titan would have been that, but it prolly was a total mess.
Blizzard should use a current IP like Starcraft / Diablo, those would do better then another WoW tbh.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Because they have no experience in making such games and to get it right you need experience on all levels?
WoW gets older and older, and the decline of the game might start snowballing sooner or later, it's entirely possible that Blizzard has re-evaluated the situation and perhaps WoW 2 isnt all that bad move afterall when WoW still has nice amount of players.
The game also has a huge amount of ex-players who would possibly jump back in with modern graphics, and most of all, modern game engine able to support all kinds of fancy stuff you expect to see in games today.
It's a huge familiar setting to a huge number of gamers. There's countless amount of people who keep saying that they would love to play WoW if it had modern feature palette. Blizzard also has stated many times that they would love to add all kinds of stuff into WoW but they cant because the engine is from stone age. Perhaps they decided that it's time to add that stuff in.
because CCP had so much experience?
anti-WoW/anti-blizzard people are so amusing with the things they say...
....I agree. Also it would be a 'safe' bet for them too. Of course it's not re-inventing the wheel but because it has been a long while since originally launched I imagine people would flock back or remain..............though the second time round I would wish they would switch from Harley's to Chariot's .... never been really keen on adding contemporary imagery in with Fantasy. Time travel is a different issue but the combustion engine has no place in the present WOW.
Someone earlier suggested that Titan or the speculation regarding it as a 'Red Herring' ... can totally see this point. Even the Word Titan conjures up different images ..... A planet maybe, A greek monster from the depth's evoking the power of God's .... or just ....it's Huge ..... I have no doubt the latter is true. I bet there'a an Orc in there somewhere ....
Or Blizzard when making WoW, for that matter.
My money would be on a Starcraft MMO although maybe not full MMORPG.
Twitch combat, lobby, lots of phasing, lots of bg / arena pvp.
With Titan or WOW 2 I can certainly see where they would want players to stamp their existence within the game. Wildstar's Home / Building program seems to allow folks the chance to bring individuality into the game and I thing this could extend into larger Guild orientated structures like Forts and Castles or even Spaceports.
This of course is a Sandbox element. Also I think the scale of environments dictates to a degree weather a game 'feels' like a themepark or not. I remember playing the vanilla WOW and trekking for miles and miles, particularly in the Arathi Highlands mining my head off to raise enough gold to get a mount. Also the open PvP around Hillsbrad was amazing .... a proper old fashioned 'rumble'. Even though I played horde for many years one staggering memory I had was sauntering up the road as an early level Human Warrior and having to stand to the side as an endless trail of mounted Taurens and Orc's surged towards Stormwind......and very importantly .... could lay siege (kill everyone in sight) without having to join a queue or a loading screen.
I think modern additions of 'Quest Trackers' are to blame for that Themepark feel ...... in Neverwinter you just have to follow Tinkerbell and you're there ... well another loading screen.....this I think is very poor for an MMO.
Freedom is the key. If you want to be part of a believable online world, scope, scale and the flexibility to allow the personality of a player to have a direct physical impact is paramount ......... give folks the building blocks and they will build cities and vehicles that will blow your socks off.
Real environments with temperature impacting on different races ... wind actually blowing a gale and a 'real' force of energy. Maybe even season's. The closer to a 'real' world you can get the more convincing it is ....... I still think in Guild Wars 2 when running in snow you should leave footprints etc ..... it's slightly lazy in this respect ....a small point but irritating.
My theme song.
Blizzard is unlike other companies, they have the means to delay and redo a game as long as they like. And they are not stupid.
I don't believe it'll be another theme park now. Seeing how all the posts WoW have "fail" . And seeing the fans' reaction to D3, they know that players will no longer settle for something mediocre, something that is based on past success anymore.
I believe it will still be a new IP, but totally driving in a new direction , maybe even a direction that no MMO has ever done before.
They need this new MMO to be special, so that they can once again have the same or even better success than WoW.
They have "fail" in D3, and if they "fail" again in Titans, than their name and business is all but lost.
And personally I dont really like SC2 either.
RIP Orc Choppa
I don't think they have failed at making World of Warcraft. It's true the game has passed through several stages, attracting different kinds of players, but overall, the game was a resounding success. Nowadays, the game is slowly decaying due to the huge range of products in the games market (MMO or not) But we have to acknowledge that WoW was the best product out there for many years (only EVE Online can be considered its competitor in that period, but they were totally different games) Diablo 3, was a totally different story, nowadays is slowly becoming what it should have been on its launch date, but there are better games like Path of Exile.
Aside from Hearthstone, which I am following very closely, Project Titan could be what Blizzard needs to be again ahead of the gaming industry. Not disclosing what the game is about, is a very good strategy, since fans are usually a factor that could make the game crash in the Failure Swamp (or not, but in Blizzard's case, they are very demanding) It's a better idea to give developers their own pace to do things, and not to rush creativity. Also, being a new franchise it's positive, because they aren't pressured by their own success.
I'm eagerly waiting for this game. Hoping that it creates a new kind of gameplay, or something never seen in MMOs.
I would love for this to happen. However, WoW still has a large enough player base and still generates enough revenue that its worth it for Blizzard to continue milking it for awhile. I think its already been said that Titan is not WoW2. Even though a lot of WoW players will undoubtedly move over to Titan upon its release, I don't think it will take players from WoW on as large of a scale as an actual WoW sequel would. So I think Blizzard is going to make Titan something else entirely, it'll be awesome, and their next MMO will be WoW 2. What do you guys think? Accurate?rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
i would prefer WoW 2.0 rather than Titan, personally.