Some players enjoy PVE, some players don't. Players who enjoy PVE might like to plan their game, their quests(quests
are all about PVE, right?). Players who do not enjoy PVE(let's call them Hard Core PVP players from now on), they do
not have questing plans(dictated by necessity? No? Maybe?). Players who enjoys PVE wouldn't like to be interrupted in
their plans. Nobody would! People in general do not like to be not in control of events they are involved in. Any
PVP initiative from PVE haters will be perfectly in those PVP lovers plans, but not in plans of players who enjoys
PVE. It will be their quest plans interruption for them. So, it seems there is no equality in playing conditions for
those two types of players. What possibly could be done about it? There was a precedent in history(was it, really?)
To just make things more fair, some criminals were put on an island where they had no obstacles to their criminal
style of life(of course except actions of other criminals). They roam free, and do what they want. Doesn't it sounds
familiar? Yes! Oh, gee we call it PVP Servers now.
And agree, killing people is kind of a crime. At least in civilized society.
I was not talking about casual PVP players. They are like all of us. We will kill if opportunity presents itself, but will not make master mind plans for it.
I don't actually hate PvP, I hate it being forced on me, I hate the 'Non-Consentual "I can gank you" wither you like it or not.' I don't care if a game has PvP as long as it doesn't affect me. I don't care if people beat the snot out of each other as long as I don't have to deal with it (ie: Arena,"wargrounds" etc)
But if game have free for all pvp you won't buy it right?
Why i ask you wonder?
Well thats where the main problem is many buy games blindly [Snip-o-la the ranting]
End of discussion.
If I know the game has open PvP I don't buy it..I'm not the 'many' (mainly because its full of people like you)
I don't have to 'get used it" because I don't play or buy it..
OP is either trolling, 12 years old or just your stereotypical 'hardcore PvP' MMORPG player. So there, you have your answer. I don't like PvP focused MMORPG's because of the PvP community. Call me a carebear all you wan't but after a day at work I'd much rather cooperate with a group of friends to achieve a common goal at our own pace while having a few laughs than get into an e-peen swinging competition with a bunch of emo kids.
Pvp brings out the worst in a community that is by default known for hyperbole and overreacting on a level worthy of a three year old.
Not only that, this tendency to wring the everliving last drop of abuse and exploit out of the game often leads to fun and quirky PvE features being walled in order to stop the PvP crowd from crying them self in to de-hyderation over percived (or at times real) imbalances.
That is why i dislike PvP (hate is a way to strong word.) and that is why i generally leave PvP to it´s own... Apart from shooters. There the PvP works most of the time.
Originally posted by Skuall i love pvp , however i despise PVP players
I love PVP too. In FPS games where everyone is on equal footing and it´s truly about player skill and luck.
I have come to hate PVP in MMO´s for two reasons.
1. The utter low lives of the internet who think it´s funny to endlessly grief other players who are many levels lower than them, all for their sick way of entertainment.
It´s these low lives that have litterly destroyed PVP in MMO´s and why you see either servers with seperate rulesets, PVP restricted to sertain zones or instances... or developers abandoning PVP altogether.
2. The endless whining about balance in PVP, resulting in bland boring and flat class design, with no real uniqueness and diversity among various classes.
To be honest: other than structured, objective-driven PVP (think CTF or similar), guild battles and personal duels I don´t think PVP should be a part of MMORPGs at all. Main reason for this is the imbalance that is present in all stages of any MMORPG, be it lvl difference, gear difference, the 'who-has-spend-more-in-the-cash-shop' difference (in F2P games) and so on. When I want to PVP, I go play LoL or Generic online shooter Nr. 5, because there at least it´s tried to achieve something like balance, while it is quite hard to impossible to balance MMORPG PVP, especially when it´s open world, FFA or something else. GW2 for example has its entire PVP system separated from the main game to be able to balance it, a rather smart move, I gotta say.
But hey, I don´t even care about PVP as long as it´s not forced down my throat and when I can avoid it during my play.
Only a tiny, tiny minority which is very very vocal about it, and game devs ALWAYS listen to them.
Actually research shows that it is more often then not the other way around, PvE gameplay have to bend for PvP gameplay more often the the other way around and when it happens it is mostly in games that have non-consensual PvP in order to stop greifing or to improve the new player experience.
The days of UO's roaming packs of troglodytes killing new players and lowbies alike just because they can are gone for most part and i have a hard time seeing any game adopting this approach being around for very long or haver much of a community outside said troglodytes.. And they will get bored and leave as soon as they run out of lowbies.
I don't hate PvP. I play frequently PvP games - Battlefield, World of Tanks, Natural Selection, etc. I just hate PvP when it is based on character's gear, level, class and attributes. Those will change PvP from skill game to grind game - and I am not intrested from grind. Unfurtunately, most of MMORPGs are using those game mechanism so PvP is absolutely last thing that I want to do on those games.
I hate PvP in MMOs when they decide suddenly rebalance fun PvE class or gear so that it works better in PvP. This is unfortunately happening often, so oftean that I try to generally avoid those PvP oriented MMOs or where devs are clearly oriented towards PvP.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Is it because -
You lose a lot?
You can't get better?
It's scary?
To much adrenalin?
It makes you angry?
PvP'rs are mean?
Your list is severely lacking in empathy of other people's perspectives and tastes.
All of your 'reasons' are the same thing: an insult at others for being too "carebear".
None of the reasons why a minority of players 'hate pvp'.
I believe you also might not understand how many people don't hate pvp, seeing as how the vast majority do not hate it. In fact, more gamers probably hate PvE than the number that hate PvP- even though both are probably quite low.
Only a tiny, tiny minority which is very very vocal about it, and game devs ALWAYS listen to them.
Actually research shows that it is more often then not the other way around, PvE gameplay have to bend for PvP gameplay more often the the other way around and when it happens it is mostly in games that have non-consensual PvP in order to stop greifing or to improve the new player experience.
The days of UO's roaming packs of troglodytes killing new players and lowbies alike just because they can are gone for most part and i have a hard time seeing any game adopting this approach being around for very long or haver much of a community outside said troglodytes.. And they will get bored and leave as soon as they run out of lowbies.
Research shows? LOL, what research?
Usually when people start claiming that "research shows" they cite their research.
Did "THEY" do the research? Once again I must ask...who are "THEY"? LOL...oh geez... "Actually research shows..."
Why watch comedy television, when I can read this thread? lol
Only a tiny, tiny minority which is very very vocal about it, and game devs ALWAYS listen to them.
Actually research shows that it is more often then not the other way around, PvE gameplay have to bend for PvP gameplay more often the the other way around and when it happens it is mostly in games that have non-consensual PvP in order to stop greifing or to improve the new player experience.
The days of UO's roaming packs of troglodytes killing new players and lowbies alike just because they can are gone for most part and i have a hard time seeing any game adopting this approach being around for very long or haver much of a community outside said troglodytes.. And they will get bored and leave as soon as they run out of lowbies.
Research shows? LOL, what research?
Usually when people start claiming that "research shows" they cite their research.
Did "THEY" do the research? Once again I must ask...who are "THEY"? LOL...oh geez... "Actually research shows..."
Why watch comedy television, when I can read this thread? lol
Would LOVE this community if we ALL
stopped the conversation,
singled tawess out,
and asked, "What research exactly?"
Here is the point . (it is the small dot there)
Here is your head (>_<)
That is how high it went over it.
I just felt like i should counter your hyperbole with some of my own. Of course there is no reserarch (on a proper level at least) on what feature have to take the backseat most often, who would actually bother to do that as it is pretty much pointless any way.
Oh, AoC its PvE was destroyed to cater the "Needs" of the PvPers. All the cool stuff (on usually long cooldowns) you could do in PvE was toned down bcs some PvPers whined its unbalanced, op and whatever. PvP first in AoC was with low gear, low stats dependancy and changed totally bcs the PvP crowd had no "Goal", no "Progress" in their PvP other than win and loss. Well, they gave the PvPers stats and gear and whatnot and all they did was exploiting, farming noobs, spawncamping and driving the fresh meat away allways crying they did not get enough love. Then they got hardcore pvp servers they managed to dry out of players in a matter of a few months bcs they could not endure the gameplay they once forced upon others...
As long the PvP community acts as selfdestructive as they usually do there will be no successfull FFA-PvP MMORPG in the west.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
You lose a lot? Not really. It depends who I am with.
You can't get better? I happen to think I am quite good. I top charts constantly.
It's scary? Not at all.
To much adrenalin? Yes - half the reason I partake in it.
It makes you angry? Angry at others or the design of the game, not at myself.
PvP'rs are mean? I suppose it depends on how you look at it.
___________
I don't necessarily hate PvP.
But my two majors issues with PvP are...
1) The way it is implemented.
One example is "Forced PvP" - this usually leads to repeated ganking and corpse camping by those with much more time to spend than I do and are typically much higher level than I am. I have never understood the concept behind it, other than people will do anything immoral if they can get away with it - sitting behind a computer screen without any repercussion. While I was in the Military, killing women and children is immoral and that is typically how I view higher level players destroying lower level characters with a click of a button. There is no challenge. There is no reward. There are no repercussions because you hide behind a computer screen. There is nothing but a perverse sense of superiority. "Because I can" is not an excuse for essentially cyber-bullying. Yes, there are a few games that have tried to combat this and I applaud them for trying, but their efforts usually come up short. Warhammer Online comes to mind.
Another example is the complete imbalance between PvE and PvP. This usually leads to an increase in the amount of patching that is implemented to "fix" the balance but in reality all it does is support a FOTM class or skill. I sometimes wonder if numbers are ever actually tested at any length or if programmers/designers just guess at numbers and throw out patches to try and sedate the consumers for a short time. I understand that as an evolving game/world, balance will never exist, but trying to throw in the PvE and PvP part of it without making them completely separate only makes things worse when testing apparently rarely exists. World of Warcraft is a good example of this. It was an on-going joke for several years with my friends that if you didn't have every class available to you every week, then you didn't have the most overpowered class.
2) The player skill base
An example of this would be going into a Warfront in RIFT and putting forth 100% of my effort and literally watching players just stand around doing nothing or nearly nothing. I typically play healers and I cannot stand healing players who do not "earn" it. Ever spent all of your mana/power healing a group of players who just stand there or have given up trying? Maybe it is just my competitive spirit, but I can rarely play any PvP oriented games anymore without playing with people I know. Mainly my brother. Because I know for sure my efforts are not in vain when gaming with my brother. Even if I lose, I know my brother and I have given them "a run for their money". I guess what I am saying is, it is hard for me to work together with players who backpedal, which coincidentally happens to be the majority of the PvP player base.
____________
Thank you for reading - this is all just from my viewpoint but it surely counts for something.
Only a tiny, tiny minority which is very very vocal about it, and game devs ALWAYS listen to them.
I agree with the first part, the only difference being that most people IMO want to choose to PvP when they want it and be left alone the rest of the time. This is easily seen by the ratio of PvE:PvP servers. Dispite that ratio you still see a lot of people in battlegrounds.
The second part is a bit tricky as if we pull to both extremes, pure PvE vs. pure PvP, PvE wins out by a long shot by just looking at the server type ratio of almost any MMO. That doesn't directly tie into people hating PvP, but hating non-consensual PvP. The majority of people do not like non-consensual PvP.
I'll throw in my two cents, who knows, might have some value to the OP and others.
I don't hate PvP, per se, but I don't typically get much enjoyment from it, either. Note, this is from someone who played Shadowbane for years (Treachery server)... it's not like I've never had the experience.
The issue for me? Call it an excess of empathy... winning any particular fight, unless it's good and close, yields little of value because I'm worried about whether my opponent feels bad/disappointed/angry/whatever, and obviously, losing is less than enjoyable as well, especially if the notion of sportsmanship is something my opponent has decided to ignore.
I've been this way as long as I can recall, IRL as well... back in grade school, I'd have friends yell at me playing schoolyard basketball because I'd let up to keep it close if we were winning. FPS games have no appeal to me for much the same reason... they can be a fun little diversion on rare occasion, but I don't bother caring about the kill counts, and lose interest fast if the other players start getting hypercompetitive.
For me, the PvE side of things, and in particular, cooperative game mechanics where people work together to achieve a goal, preferably one that doesn't mean tearing some other real person down, yields far more enjoyment. That's what kept me in Shadowbane, seeing how big we could get our city to be... before the power guild would decide to destroy our little outpost. (There was no resisting, we were outnumbered 50 to 1, and "fair fights" were not high on their list of priorities.)
I'm forced to be a jack-ass more often than I like in real life... I own a small business, capitalism and all, hard to avoid completely... doing so in my games as well just doesn't have much appeal. And to be brutally honest, proving I'm better at some game just isn't that high on my list to begin with... if I really feel the need to prove my worth, I'll do it in programming, or making my business more profitable, or building a new deck for my house (I'm studiously ignoring the old one, hoping it'll just go away, shhhh), or some other such real life achievement. As the OP said, in so many words, but with a significantly different intent... "it's just a game".
I'll throw in my two cents, who knows, might have some value to the OP and others.
I don't hate PvP, per se, but I don't typically get much enjoyment from it, either. Note, this is from someone who played Shadowbane for years (Treachery server)... it's not like I've never had the experience.
The issue for me? Call it an excess of empathy... winning any particular fight, unless it's good and close, yields little of value because I'm worried about whether my opponent feels bad/disappointed/angry/whatever, and obviously, losing is less than enjoyable as well, especially if the notion of sportsmanship is something my opponent has decided to ignore.
I've been this way as long as I can recall, IRL as well... back in grade school, I'd have friends yell at me playing schoolyard basketball because I'd let up to keep it close if we were winning. FPS games have no appeal to me for much the same reason... they can be a fun little diversion on rare occasion, but I don't bother caring about the kill counts, and lose interest fast if the other players start getting hypercompetitive.
For me, the PvE side of things, and in particular, cooperative game mechanics where people work together to achieve a goal, preferably one that doesn't mean tearing some other real person down, yields far more enjoyment. That's what kept me in Shadowbane, seeing how big we could get our city to be... before the power guild would decide to destroy our little outpost. (There was no resisting, we were outnumbered 50 to 1, and "fair fights" were not high on their list of priorities.)
I'm forced to be a jack-ass more often than I like in real life... I own a small business, capitalism and all, hard to avoid completely... doing so in my games as well just doesn't have much appeal. And to be brutally honest, proving I'm better at some game just isn't that high on my list to begin with... if I really feel the need to prove my worth, I'll do it in programming, or making my business more profitable, or building a new deck for my house (I'm studiously ignoring the old one, hoping it'll just go away, shhhh), or some other such real life achievement. As the OP said, in so many words, but with a significantly different intent... "it's just a game".
There was one other poster early in the thread that a very similar post. I told story abou my first real race, where I pulled up at the and let a friend win. I understand.
Yet it's the competition I crave. I learned to accept winning and the attention it brings, well I learning. It's an on going process
You could sum up the entire debate as, "People don't like being forced to do things they don't feel like doing in order to do the things they want to do. The more expensive the game, the less they want to do the unwanted activities."
It doesn't matter if you're talking about people not liking PvP or people not liking PvE raiding or whatever. Think about it like this. Most people going to the movies to see "Thor", don't want to sit through fifteen minutes of "Police Drama" in order to watch "Thor".
Lizardbones person just won the thread. This is spot on.
Project 1999 had a PVE server with a 1,000 players online. The team then created a PvP server, and its population was about 40; but the forums were aglow with juvenile drama.
I do love PvP in MMOFPS, and might enjoy PvP in RPG if hacking was not so prevalent nowadays. I enjoyed my time on Rallos Zek in 1999.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
it not the PvP it self I don't like I actually enjoy PvP from time to time the prob is I don't always want to deal with it and I especially don't like getting ganked out of the blue when im just standing around chilling minding my own bussness,
also the reason why I tend to avoid pure PvP games is the atmosphere, casue to be honest ya a good chunk of players are decent people but you know the assholes stand out and are often the ones you end up delaing with, and while I know they exist in all forms of games in pure PvP games the can and will stalk you and harse you constantly and not only dose the game allow them to but often supports them in doing so where as other style place barriers.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
1. I have to be in the mood for pvp which means open world is out.
2. Also open world pvp is rarely an equal fight. Most of the time I've been jumped at less than half health by multiple players of higher level and/or better gear. It isn't pvp when I have no chance to fight back. It's just irritating. And the times I got revenge by jumping someone lower level or at half health or undergeared it wasn't fun. I took no joy in it even if I logged a main to kill someone who ganked my alt. It was fun exactly one time. So if I don't want it done to me and if it's no fun to do unto others, why the hassle?
3. Most games are now somewhat pay to win and/or require players to do a lot of group content for the best pvp gear. I don't do wallet vs wallet and I refuse to group just to gear so even pvp that isn't open world has lost its shine for me.
4. Premades against randoms. Boring and predictable outcome the vast majority of the time. Not worth bothering with.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
we .. or at least I play games for a different reason than you. i am more interested in collaborative, world building style gaming.
I don't want to share servers with people like this.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Comments
Some players enjoy PVE, some players don't. Players who enjoy PVE might like to plan their game, their quests(quests
are all about PVE, right?). Players who do not enjoy PVE(let's call them Hard Core PVP players from now on), they do
not have questing plans(dictated by necessity? No? Maybe?). Players who enjoys PVE wouldn't like to be interrupted in
their plans. Nobody would! People in general do not like to be not in control of events they are involved in. Any
PVP initiative from PVE haters will be perfectly in those PVP lovers plans, but not in plans of players who enjoys
PVE. It will be their quest plans interruption for them. So, it seems there is no equality in playing conditions for
those two types of players. What possibly could be done about it? There was a precedent in history(was it, really?)
To just make things more fair, some criminals were put on an island where they had no obstacles to their criminal
style of life(of course except actions of other criminals). They roam free, and do what they want. Doesn't it sounds
familiar? Yes! Oh, gee we call it PVP Servers now.
And agree, killing people is kind of a crime. At least in civilized society.
I was not talking about casual PVP players. They are like all of us. We will kill if opportunity presents itself, but will not make master mind plans for it.
Another thing that makes this entire thread kind of dumb is...
Planetside 2. An MMOFPS. If people hated PvP so much, PS2, APB etc. wouldn't have any players..neither would CoD, neither would LoL
Seriously.
If I know the game has open PvP I don't buy it..I'm not the 'many' (mainly because its full of people like you)
I don't have to 'get used it" because I don't play or buy it..
Please go hump someone elses leg...
"End of Discussion."
hah!
OP is either trolling, 12 years old or just your stereotypical 'hardcore PvP' MMORPG player. So there, you have your answer. I don't like PvP focused MMORPG's because of the PvP community. Call me a carebear all you wan't but after a day at work I'd much rather cooperate with a group of friends to achieve a common goal at our own pace while having a few laughs than get into an e-peen swinging competition with a bunch of emo kids.
TL;DR - It's too scary.
Pvp brings out the worst in a community that is by default known for hyperbole and overreacting on a level worthy of a three year old.
Not only that, this tendency to wring the everliving last drop of abuse and exploit out of the game often leads to fun and quirky PvE features being walled in order to stop the PvP crowd from crying them self in to de-hyderation over percived (or at times real) imbalances.
That is why i dislike PvP (hate is a way to strong word.) and that is why i generally leave PvP to it´s own... Apart from shooters. There the PvP works most of the time.
This have been a good conversation
almost no one hates PvP.
Only a tiny, tiny minority which is very very vocal about it, and game devs ALWAYS listen to them.
Amen to that!
To be honest: other than structured, objective-driven PVP (think CTF or similar), guild battles and personal duels I don´t think PVP should be a part of MMORPGs at all. Main reason for this is the imbalance that is present in all stages of any MMORPG, be it lvl difference, gear difference, the 'who-has-spend-more-in-the-cash-shop' difference (in F2P games) and so on. When I want to PVP, I go play LoL or Generic online shooter Nr. 5, because there at least it´s tried to achieve something like balance, while it is quite hard to impossible to balance MMORPG PVP, especially when it´s open world, FFA or something else. GW2 for example has its entire PVP system separated from the main game to be able to balance it, a rather smart move, I gotta say.
But hey, I don´t even care about PVP as long as it´s not forced down my throat and when I can avoid it during my play.
Actually research shows that it is more often then not the other way around, PvE gameplay have to bend for PvP gameplay more often the the other way around and when it happens it is mostly in games that have non-consensual PvP in order to stop greifing or to improve the new player experience.
The days of UO's roaming packs of troglodytes killing new players and lowbies alike just because they can are gone for most part and i have a hard time seeing any game adopting this approach being around for very long or haver much of a community outside said troglodytes.. And they will get bored and leave as soon as they run out of lowbies.
This have been a good conversation
I don't hate PvP. I play frequently PvP games - Battlefield, World of Tanks, Natural Selection, etc. I just hate PvP when it is based on character's gear, level, class and attributes. Those will change PvP from skill game to grind game - and I am not intrested from grind. Unfurtunately, most of MMORPGs are using those game mechanism so PvP is absolutely last thing that I want to do on those games.
I hate PvP in MMOs when they decide suddenly rebalance fun PvE class or gear so that it works better in PvP. This is unfortunately happening often, so oftean that I try to generally avoid those PvP oriented MMOs or where devs are clearly oriented towards PvP.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
Your list is severely lacking in empathy of other people's perspectives and tastes.
All of your 'reasons' are the same thing: an insult at others for being too "carebear".
None of the reasons why a minority of players 'hate pvp'.
I believe you also might not understand how many people don't hate pvp, seeing as how the vast majority do not hate it. In fact, more gamers probably hate PvE than the number that hate PvP- even though both are probably quite low.
Research shows? LOL, what research?
Usually when people start claiming that "research shows" they cite their research.
Did "THEY" do the research? Once again I must ask...who are "THEY"? LOL...oh geez... "Actually research shows..."
Why watch comedy television, when I can read this thread? lol
Would LOVE this community if we ALL
stopped the conversation,
singled tawess out,
and asked, "What research exactly?"
Here is the point . (it is the small dot there)
Here is your head (>_<)
That is how high it went over it.
I just felt like i should counter your hyperbole with some of my own. Of course there is no reserarch (on a proper level at least) on what feature have to take the backseat most often, who would actually bother to do that as it is pretty much pointless any way.
This have been a good conversation
Oh, AoC its PvE was destroyed to cater the "Needs" of the PvPers.
All the cool stuff (on usually long cooldowns) you could do in PvE was toned down bcs some PvPers whined its unbalanced, op and whatever.
PvP first in AoC was with low gear, low stats dependancy and changed totally bcs the PvP crowd had no "Goal", no "Progress" in their PvP other than win and loss.
Well, they gave the PvPers stats and gear and whatnot and all they did was exploiting, farming noobs, spawncamping and driving the fresh meat away allways crying they did not get enough love.
Then they got hardcore pvp servers they managed to dry out of players in a matter of a few months bcs they could not endure the gameplay they once forced upon others...
As long the PvP community acts as selfdestructive as they usually do there will be no successfull FFA-PvP MMORPG in the west.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
You lose a lot? Not really. It depends who I am with.
You can't get better? I happen to think I am quite good. I top charts constantly.
It's scary? Not at all.
To much adrenalin? Yes - half the reason I partake in it.
It makes you angry? Angry at others or the design of the game, not at myself.
PvP'rs are mean? I suppose it depends on how you look at it.
___________
I don't necessarily hate PvP.
But my two majors issues with PvP are...
1) The way it is implemented.
One example is "Forced PvP" - this usually leads to repeated ganking and corpse camping by those with much more time to spend than I do and are typically much higher level than I am. I have never understood the concept behind it, other than people will do anything immoral if they can get away with it - sitting behind a computer screen without any repercussion. While I was in the Military, killing women and children is immoral and that is typically how I view higher level players destroying lower level characters with a click of a button. There is no challenge. There is no reward. There are no repercussions because you hide behind a computer screen. There is nothing but a perverse sense of superiority. "Because I can" is not an excuse for essentially cyber-bullying. Yes, there are a few games that have tried to combat this and I applaud them for trying, but their efforts usually come up short. Warhammer Online comes to mind.
Another example is the complete imbalance between PvE and PvP. This usually leads to an increase in the amount of patching that is implemented to "fix" the balance but in reality all it does is support a FOTM class or skill. I sometimes wonder if numbers are ever actually tested at any length or if programmers/designers just guess at numbers and throw out patches to try and sedate the consumers for a short time. I understand that as an evolving game/world, balance will never exist, but trying to throw in the PvE and PvP part of it without making them completely separate only makes things worse when testing apparently rarely exists. World of Warcraft is a good example of this. It was an on-going joke for several years with my friends that if you didn't have every class available to you every week, then you didn't have the most overpowered class.
2) The player skill base
An example of this would be going into a Warfront in RIFT and putting forth 100% of my effort and literally watching players just stand around doing nothing or nearly nothing. I typically play healers and I cannot stand healing players who do not "earn" it. Ever spent all of your mana/power healing a group of players who just stand there or have given up trying? Maybe it is just my competitive spirit, but I can rarely play any PvP oriented games anymore without playing with people I know. Mainly my brother. Because I know for sure my efforts are not in vain when gaming with my brother. Even if I lose, I know my brother and I have given them "a run for their money". I guess what I am saying is, it is hard for me to work together with players who backpedal, which coincidentally happens to be the majority of the PvP player base.
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Thank you for reading - this is all just from my viewpoint but it surely counts for something.
I agree with the first part, the only difference being that most people IMO want to choose to PvP when they want it and be left alone the rest of the time. This is easily seen by the ratio of PvE:PvP servers. Dispite that ratio you still see a lot of people in battlegrounds.
The second part is a bit tricky as if we pull to both extremes, pure PvE vs. pure PvP, PvE wins out by a long shot by just looking at the server type ratio of almost any MMO. That doesn't directly tie into people hating PvP, but hating non-consensual PvP. The majority of people do not like non-consensual PvP.
I'll throw in my two cents, who knows, might have some value to the OP and others.
I don't hate PvP, per se, but I don't typically get much enjoyment from it, either. Note, this is from someone who played Shadowbane for years (Treachery server)... it's not like I've never had the experience.
The issue for me? Call it an excess of empathy... winning any particular fight, unless it's good and close, yields little of value because I'm worried about whether my opponent feels bad/disappointed/angry/whatever, and obviously, losing is less than enjoyable as well, especially if the notion of sportsmanship is something my opponent has decided to ignore.
I've been this way as long as I can recall, IRL as well... back in grade school, I'd have friends yell at me playing schoolyard basketball because I'd let up to keep it close if we were winning. FPS games have no appeal to me for much the same reason... they can be a fun little diversion on rare occasion, but I don't bother caring about the kill counts, and lose interest fast if the other players start getting hypercompetitive.
For me, the PvE side of things, and in particular, cooperative game mechanics where people work together to achieve a goal, preferably one that doesn't mean tearing some other real person down, yields far more enjoyment. That's what kept me in Shadowbane, seeing how big we could get our city to be... before the power guild would decide to destroy our little outpost. (There was no resisting, we were outnumbered 50 to 1, and "fair fights" were not high on their list of priorities.)
I'm forced to be a jack-ass more often than I like in real life... I own a small business, capitalism and all, hard to avoid completely... doing so in my games as well just doesn't have much appeal. And to be brutally honest, proving I'm better at some game just isn't that high on my list to begin with... if I really feel the need to prove my worth, I'll do it in programming, or making my business more profitable, or building a new deck for my house (I'm studiously ignoring the old one, hoping it'll just go away, shhhh), or some other such real life achievement. As the OP said, in so many words, but with a significantly different intent... "it's just a game".
Blogging semi-regularly at http://damianov.wordpress.com
There was one other poster early in the thread that a very similar post. I told story abou my first real race, where I pulled up at the and let a friend win. I understand.
Yet it's the competition I crave. I learned to accept winning and the attention it brings, well I learning. It's an on going process
Lizardbones person just won the thread. This is spot on.
Project 1999 had a PVE server with a 1,000 players online. The team then created a PvP server, and its population was about 40; but the forums were aglow with juvenile drama.
I do love PvP in MMOFPS, and might enjoy PvP in RPG if hacking was not so prevalent nowadays. I enjoyed my time on Rallos Zek in 1999.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
it not the PvP it self I don't like I actually enjoy PvP from time to time the prob is I don't always want to deal with it and I especially don't like getting ganked out of the blue when im just standing around chilling minding my own bussness,
also the reason why I tend to avoid pure PvP games is the atmosphere, casue to be honest ya a good chunk of players are decent people but you know the assholes stand out and are often the ones you end up delaing with, and while I know they exist in all forms of games in pure PvP games the can and will stalk you and harse you constantly and not only dose the game allow them to but often supports them in doing so where as other style place barriers.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
1. I have to be in the mood for pvp which means open world is out.
2. Also open world pvp is rarely an equal fight. Most of the time I've been jumped at less than half health by multiple players of higher level and/or better gear. It isn't pvp when I have no chance to fight back. It's just irritating. And the times I got revenge by jumping someone lower level or at half health or undergeared it wasn't fun. I took no joy in it even if I logged a main to kill someone who ganked my alt. It was fun exactly one time. So if I don't want it done to me and if it's no fun to do unto others, why the hassle?
3. Most games are now somewhat pay to win and/or require players to do a lot of group content for the best pvp gear. I don't do wallet vs wallet and I refuse to group just to gear so even pvp that isn't open world has lost its shine for me.
4. Premades against randoms. Boring and predictable outcome the vast majority of the time. Not worth bothering with.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
we .. or at least I play games for a different reason than you. i am more interested in collaborative, world building style gaming.
I don't want to share servers with people like this.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
UO, L2 and EVE are proofs you're wrong.
Only people that is only used to the pvp of themepark mmos or indie mmos say that open pvp cant be successfull.