Camping is a nice way to get people to interact. As far as not talking to people, well that is your choice of course, but it seems strange you pick MMO then.
Some would consider it very rude if you group with others without acknowledging their existence. It doesn't help you either being rude.
I prefer not to feel forced to follow a trail of breadcrumbs in order to do what I feel like in a game. If I want straight mindless killing of mobs, I would like the option to go to my desired zone and join a camp group. If there were some achievements, random events, crafting related quests that were tied into the mobs in that zone that would be even better.
You don't want to feel forced to do what a questgiver says for a couple of minutes but it's okay to be forced to camp a particular mob for hours or days in hopes of getting that one special drop?
Seriously?
Mindless killings ....
following a story line and then kill mobs ...
I don't see why one is "superior" than the other. They are just different ways of playing a game.
1. hanging out with a group of people that have some personality 2. enjoying the scenery/ambience 3. watching your character's (and others') performance fighting mobs 4. earning some coin you can use later 5. bumping into/saying hi to other groups 6. having a chance at some loot that you would really like. 7. having IMs with other friends or guild mates.
I much prefer this chill, yet exciting, approach over the A.D.D. busywork of modern day themeparks.
None of the stuff you talk about is either appealing to me, or need camping to do.
1. I don't play games to hang out. I hang out in chat rooms.
2. In the same spot and same room? The same scenary got boring in 5 min.
3. if i want to watch others, i go watch e-sports.
4. What has camping has to do with this? There are lots of activities that earn coins in MMOs.
5. Really? Saying "hi"? If i want to say hi, i can do it all day around my office.
6. And the chance is higher if there is no other group around.
7. I can do that without camping.
There is a nice expression:
"You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"
Maybe it can help you open up to others. There's no reason to hide in a shell, most people are very nice in MMO.
There's just a correlation/causation interrupt happening.
Ye Gamez of Olde were just more sociable. (challengable, but we'll pass it as a fervently held belief)
Ye Games of Olde had camping (and a number of other systems x y z a b c)
If 1) and 2), they must be causally related! So if we get 2) back, we'll also get 1)!!!
It's a classic, but we see it all the time, the same way we're seeing every feature of 1999 gaming drug out and re-examined (again) as the Magic Bullet That Will Fix Everything That's Wrong With Games Today.
We see this logic pretty much every day.
The problem is, this line of thinking completely misunderstands the difference between correlation and causation. Just because two things happen at around the same time and in the same place does not mean one caused the other.
Besides, the only reason that old games were more sociable is because they appealed to a single demographic that had a lot of things in common. Today, with MMOs in the mainstream, there isn't a single demographic, there are multiple demographics, most of which have nothing in common. The reason nobody talks today is because most of the time, they're around people with whom they have nothing in common except playing the game. The old days are never coming back and people need to grow up and accept that.
Camping is a nice way to get people to interact. As far as not talking to people, well that is your choice of course, but it seems strange you pick MMO then.
Some would consider it very rude if you group with others without acknowledging their existence. It doesn't help you either being rude.
Why strange? I can play a MMO solo all day, and then trade some stuff in the AH, without talking to a single other player.
You don't have to group to a MMO, you know.
Camping is a way to force people to interact, but it is not "nice" because i don't think it is fun gameplay for many. Otherwise, it won't be eliminate from the market such a long time ago.
You don't want to feel forced to do what a questgiver says for a couple of minutes but it's okay to be forced to camp a particular mob for hours or days in hopes of getting that one special drop?
Seriously?
The only way to 'force' someone to camp is to remove all other experience-earning options (ala MUD).
Now you could do the XP Force ("camping is better xp than everything else'), that works almost equally well.
How likely is either of those ^ to happen?
Mmm, forgot one, 'the only way to get desirable loot x is to camp y'.
Ok, there are some soft 'forces' you can do. About the same as Forced Grouping.
Sure you can. Make only one mob in the entire game drop a major piece of loot and you are going to be forced to camp it in order to have any chance whatsoever to get that loot. Lots of camping games did exactly that.
You don't want to feel forced to do what a questgiver says for a couple of minutes but it's okay to be forced to camp a particular mob for hours or days in hopes of getting that one special drop?
Seriously?
The only way to 'force' someone to camp is to remove all other experience-earning options (ala MUD).
Now you could do the XP Force ("camping is better xp than everything else'), that works almost equally well.
How likely is either of those ^ to happen?
Mmm, forgot one, 'the only way to get desirable loot x is to camp y'.
Ok, there are some soft 'forces' you can do. About the same as Forced Grouping.
Sure you can. Make only one mob in the entire game drop a major piece of loot and you are going to be forced to camp it in order to have any chance whatsoever to get that loot. Lots of camping games did exactly that.
What a nightmare. Who in their right mind would play such a game? Especially if that item was REQUIRED to progress.
Camping is a way to force people to interact, but it is not "nice" because i don't think it is fun gameplay for many. Otherwise, it won't be eliminate from the market such a long time ago.
Forced camping, like forced grouping, doesn't force anyone to interact. Most PUGs never say a word to each other. It only forces people into close proximity, it doesn't force people to do anything together. I could join a camp, know I have an hour until respawn, and go watch TV until then. I could multitask in the background. I could read a book. There's nothing that says I have to actually talk to anyone in the game. Heck, I could chat with a friend elsewhere in the game if I wanted to.
It's just an absurd idea that putting you next to someone by force is going to make you want to interact with them.
You don't want to feel forced to do what a questgiver says for a couple of minutes but it's okay to be forced to camp a particular mob for hours or days in hopes of getting that one special drop?
Seriously?
The only way to 'force' someone to camp is to remove all other experience-earning options (ala MUD).
Now you could do the XP Force ("camping is better xp than everything else'), that works almost equally well.
How likely is either of those ^ to happen?
Mmm, forgot one, 'the only way to get desirable loot x is to camp y'.
Ok, there are some soft 'forces' you can do. About the same as Forced Grouping.
Sure you can. Make only one mob in the entire game drop a major piece of loot and you are going to be forced to camp it in order to have any chance whatsoever to get that loot. Lots of camping games did exactly that.
What a nightmare. Who in their right mind would play such a game? Especially if that item was REQUIRED to progress.
Lots of people. There was a boss in Anarchy Online that lived in a junkyard that only respawned once per day and killing him was the finale for a major questline. There are plenty of examples of this.
You don't want to feel forced to do what a questgiver says for a couple of minutes but it's okay to be forced to camp a particular mob for hours or days in hopes of getting that one special drop?
Seriously?
The only way to 'force' someone to camp is to remove all other experience-earning options (ala MUD).
Now you could do the XP Force ("camping is better xp than everything else'), that works almost equally well.
How likely is either of those ^ to happen?
Mmm, forgot one, 'the only way to get desirable loot x is to camp y'.
Ok, there are some soft 'forces' you can do. About the same as Forced Grouping.
Sure you can. Make only one mob in the entire game drop a major piece of loot and you are going to be forced to camp it in order to have any chance whatsoever to get that loot. Lots of camping games did exactly that.
What a nightmare. Who in their right mind would play such a game? Especially if that item was REQUIRED to progress.
Lots of people. There was a boss in Anarchy Online that lived in a junkyard that only respawned once per day and killing him was the finale for a major questline. There are plenty of examples of this.
Now THAT is a really bad design. Sure, 1 person a day my be happy they completed their quest, but the REST of the population is screwed.
What a nightmare. Who in their right mind would play such a game? Especially if that item was REQUIRED to progress.
People who like interacting.
It's a simple mechanical problem, pressing your forward button non-stop doesn't allow you to type.
A camp does, because it's static. It's one of the reasons EQ was such a social game.
Everything in EQ consisted out of camps except for the instances.
There's no big difference between running to mobs or letting a puller bring the mobs to you, but it allows 5 out of 6 people to talk who would otherwise be pressing their forward button non-stop.
You could argue that doing that is actually a nightmare, camping is a more sane approach.
Another nice thing about camping is the amount of pulling skill and CC it requires.
Because camping MMO use much more condensed mobs, there is a lot more splitting and CC involved.
EQ had dedicated pullers, the tank never pulled unless it was lower level content.
Run & Rush didn't exist in EQ outside of instances, it would get you killed, but it's standard practise in most MMO now. Many MMO don't even use a puller class anymore.
Not only did camping encourage interacting, it opened up a whole new dedicated archetype, the puller class.
EQ wasn't really a trinity...it used 4-5 core archetypes, most trinity MMO only use 3.
In short, Don't blame the general audience for having diverse interest, blame the companies for not being focused enough. If a games design is shallow they are going to get shallow players and vice versa for much deeper games. Deep games doesn't necessarily make everyone happy but their customers tend to be around for years i.e. EVE Online. They are considered successful at below 1 million subscribers.
Why would anyone want 1M (Eve is more like 0.5M) when you can get 2M? GW2 got 2M in the first 2 weeks.
Yeah Jairoe03. Why would you want 1M long term dedicated players who add revenue towards the game consistently when you can have 2M sporadic game jumping players who will complain about the game until things are changed and provide short term miniscule amounts of cash to the game to boot?
Because you make more money, of course. You think GW2 (B2P), and all the F2P games are doing it because of the goodness of their hearts?
Sub games are dying.
They are only dying because none of the current MMORPG's on the market are worth having a sub and could not hold players with a sub because even the developer's know their games don't justify it.
If an MMORPG had the content, game play, and longevity beyond rushing to max lvl to grind end game content in the course of a couple of months to justify the means...then sub fees would still be in use. But since they don't...and as said above...last a few months with the shallow content they have...it makes more sense for the dev's to sucker you out of more cash with shinnies in their cash shops and in some cases...enhancers that put you a step ahead of another player...causing a bum rush of spending to outdo one another.
You don't want to feel forced to do what a questgiver says for a couple of minutes but it's okay to be forced to camp a particular mob for hours or days in hopes of getting that one special drop?
Seriously?
The only way to 'force' someone to camp is to remove all other experience-earning options (ala MUD).
Now you could do the XP Force ("camping is better xp than everything else'), that works almost equally well.
How likely is either of those ^ to happen?
Mmm, forgot one, 'the only way to get desirable loot x is to camp y'.
Ok, there are some soft 'forces' you can do. About the same as Forced Grouping.
Sure you can. Make only one mob in the entire game drop a major piece of loot and you are going to be forced to camp it in order to have any chance whatsoever to get that loot. Lots of camping games did exactly that.
What a nightmare. Who in their right mind would play such a game? Especially if that item was REQUIRED to progress.
Lots of people. There was a boss in Anarchy Online that lived in a junkyard that only respawned once per day and killing him was the finale for a major questline. There are plenty of examples of this.
Now THAT is a really bad design. Sure, 1 person a day my be happy they completed their quest, but the REST of the population is screwed.
Yeah. And that is why no modern game will have that bone headed design.
Think about it. Once a day = 365 a year. Can you imagine how long one has to wait if the server has 30k players (which is a tiny number)?
They are only dying because none of the current MMORPG's on the market are worth having a sub and could not hold players with a sub because even the developer's know their games don't justify it.
And that is not going to change anytime soon. In fact, why would any game justify a sub when you can have as much fun in a free game? That is the beauty of competition.
You don't want to feel forced to do what a questgiver says for a couple of minutes but it's okay to be forced to camp a particular mob for hours or days in hopes of getting that one special drop?
Seriously?
The only way to 'force' someone to camp is to remove all other experience-earning options (ala MUD).
Now you could do the XP Force ("camping is better xp than everything else'), that works almost equally well.
How likely is either of those ^ to happen?
Mmm, forgot one, 'the only way to get desirable loot x is to camp y'.
Ok, there are some soft 'forces' you can do. About the same as Forced Grouping.
Sure you can. Make only one mob in the entire game drop a major piece of loot and you are going to be forced to camp it in order to have any chance whatsoever to get that loot. Lots of camping games did exactly that.
What a nightmare. Who in their right mind would play such a game? Especially if that item was REQUIRED to progress.
Lots of people. There was a boss in Anarchy Online that lived in a junkyard that only respawned once per day and killing him was the finale for a major questline. There are plenty of examples of this.
Now THAT is a really bad design. Sure, 1 person a day my be happy they completed their quest, but the REST of the population is screwed.
Yeah. And that is why no modern game will have that bone headed design.
Think about it. Once a day = 365 a year. Can you imagine how long one has to wait if the server has 30k players (which is a tiny number)?
80+ years. But at least we could chit-chat for the rest of our lives until it was our turn to kill the mob...
They are only dying because none of the current MMORPG's on the market are worth having a sub and could not hold players with a sub because even the developer's know their games don't justify it.
And that is not going to change anytime soon. In fact, why would any game justify a sub when you can have as much fun in a free game? That is the beauty of competition.
I doubt sub games are ever going to come back.
Maybe not...because there are far too many impatient morons who will pay through the nose in cash shops for the chance at "Look at me!" items and power up items to get an advantage. Many spend far more in a given year on that stuff than they would with a monthly sub. In the brief time I played Allods Online (F2P MMORPG almost exactly like WoW)...I saw people spend hundreds on chests just for a chance at a special mount. Not to mention the game was P2W.
So.... the "old timers" who want the "glory days" of camping back *cant* do that, even though they love it, because it isnt "the most efficient way to level", but the *problem* is all of the "new immature and impatient young kids" who want silly things like "linear quests" and are "too impatient" to camp?
OK, got it. (thats all sarcasm btw)
How can people not see their own hypocrisy when they post ironic crap like that? So YOU are "too impatient" to not just CAMP like you claim to love doing (all of the like minded can ban together) and take an extra 8 days to hit max level (where you then sit for 6 months until next expansion anyway), but that is OK. What ISNT OK is all of the OTHER folks who are "too impatient" to camp.
So the only solution is that the entire game must be restructured to force everyone to do what you want to do without anyone else being able to progress faster than you.
So as great as camping supposedly was, and despite how much you supposedly miss it, it is SECONDARY to the fastest possible leveling.
OK, got that too (more sarcasm)
Ive been playing MMOs since UO and absolutely *hated* camping, but if I *did* love it, I would just do what that other poster said and camp in current games. Who cares if someone else can level faster through quests? Chinese leveling teams can level faster than ANYONE. Does that mean you're going to pay a Chinese leveling team to PLVL you?
Everyone feels that whatever play style they love MUST be made *mandatory* for everyone. Thats one of the biggest problems MMO devs have. Its an essentially unpleasable audience. No one wants compromise. All 12,000 niche interests want their particular flavor made absolutely exclusive.
That graph above takes it too a new level. A graph isnt necessary. People "get it". Its not that hard. The thing is, something doesnt have to be 1:1 DIRECTLY and LITERALLY to be close enough to the same. The basic idea of 5 friends just sitting around killing monsters all day is perfectly achievable in any MMO and will allow plenty of socializing. People use VOICE chat today too, which makes it even easier. Dont be ridiculous and try to pretend there is some 'science' that makes this silly argument objective rather than subjective
So.... the "old timers" who want the "glory days" of camping back *cant* do that, even though they love it, because it isnt "the most efficient way to level", but the *problem* is all of the "new immature and impatient young kids" who want silly things like "linear quests" and are "too impatient" to camp?
OK, got it. (thats all sarcasm btw)
It's impossible because the rate of respawns is too low, and the density is too low. EQ has fast respawns and ridiculous mob density. It's also not fun if there's no challenge, EQ's challenge had partly to do with mob splitting.
It has nothing to do with hypocrisy.
You're arguing we should be playing tennis on a ping pong table, and if we don't, it's our hypocrisy. No it's just that it doesn't work.
They are only dying because none of the current MMORPG's on the market are worth having a sub and could not hold players with a sub because even the developer's know their games don't justify it.
And that is not going to change anytime soon. In fact, why would any game justify a sub when you can have as much fun in a free game? That is the beauty of competition.
I doubt sub games are ever going to come back.
Maybe not...because there are far too many impatient morons who will pay through the nose in cash shops for the chance at "Look at me!" items and power up items to get an advantage. Many spend far more in a given year on that stuff than they would with a monthly sub. In the brief time I played Allods Online (F2P MMORPG almost exactly like WoW)...I saw people spend hundreds on chests just for a chance at a special mount. Not to mention the game was P2W.
Yeah .. and i have no problems with whales. They are the ones who subsidize our gaming. So if someone wants to buy a $15 hat in a game where i play free, be my guest.
Comments
Camping is a nice way to get people to interact. As far as not talking to people, well that is your choice of course, but it seems strange you pick MMO then.
Some would consider it very rude if you group with others without acknowledging their existence. It doesn't help you either being rude.
Mindless killings ....
following a story line and then kill mobs ...
I don't see why one is "superior" than the other. They are just different ways of playing a game.
There is a nice expression:
"You catch more flies with honey than vinegar"
Maybe it can help you open up to others. There's no reason to hide in a shell, most people are very nice in MMO.
The problem is, this line of thinking completely misunderstands the difference between correlation and causation. Just because two things happen at around the same time and in the same place does not mean one caused the other.
Besides, the only reason that old games were more sociable is because they appealed to a single demographic that had a lot of things in common. Today, with MMOs in the mainstream, there isn't a single demographic, there are multiple demographics, most of which have nothing in common. The reason nobody talks today is because most of the time, they're around people with whom they have nothing in common except playing the game. The old days are never coming back and people need to grow up and accept that.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Why strange? I can play a MMO solo all day, and then trade some stuff in the AH, without talking to a single other player.
You don't have to group to a MMO, you know.
Camping is a way to force people to interact, but it is not "nice" because i don't think it is fun gameplay for many. Otherwise, it won't be eliminate from the market such a long time ago.
Sure you can. Make only one mob in the entire game drop a major piece of loot and you are going to be forced to camp it in order to have any chance whatsoever to get that loot. Lots of camping games did exactly that.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Oh you misunderstood. I have been in guilds and raid groups. It is easy to make friends. Just that it is not worth the time to do it much in MMOs.
Everything in EQ existed out of camps. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Camping is much more beneficial in some games because of the rate of mobs you can kill.
What a nightmare. Who in their right mind would play such a game? Especially if that item was REQUIRED to progress.
Forced camping, like forced grouping, doesn't force anyone to interact. Most PUGs never say a word to each other. It only forces people into close proximity, it doesn't force people to do anything together. I could join a camp, know I have an hour until respawn, and go watch TV until then. I could multitask in the background. I could read a book. There's nothing that says I have to actually talk to anyone in the game. Heck, I could chat with a friend elsewhere in the game if I wanted to.
It's just an absurd idea that putting you next to someone by force is going to make you want to interact with them.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Lots of people. There was a boss in Anarchy Online that lived in a junkyard that only respawned once per day and killing him was the finale for a major questline. There are plenty of examples of this.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Now THAT is a really bad design. Sure, 1 person a day my be happy they completed their quest, but the REST of the population is screwed.
People who like interacting.
It's a simple mechanical problem, pressing your forward button non-stop doesn't allow you to type.
A camp does, because it's static. It's one of the reasons EQ was such a social game.
Everything in EQ consisted out of camps except for the instances.
There's no big difference between running to mobs or letting a puller bring the mobs to you, but it allows 5 out of 6 people to talk who would otherwise be pressing their forward button non-stop.
You could argue that doing that is actually a nightmare, camping is a more sane approach.
Another nice thing about camping is the amount of pulling skill and CC it requires.
Because camping MMO use much more condensed mobs, there is a lot more splitting and CC involved.
EQ had dedicated pullers, the tank never pulled unless it was lower level content.
Run & Rush didn't exist in EQ outside of instances, it would get you killed, but it's standard practise in most MMO now. Many MMO don't even use a puller class anymore.
Not only did camping encourage interacting, it opened up a whole new dedicated archetype, the puller class.
EQ wasn't really a trinity...it used 4-5 core archetypes, most trinity MMO only use 3.
They are only dying because none of the current MMORPG's on the market are worth having a sub and could not hold players with a sub because even the developer's know their games don't justify it.
If an MMORPG had the content, game play, and longevity beyond rushing to max lvl to grind end game content in the course of a couple of months to justify the means...then sub fees would still be in use. But since they don't...and as said above...last a few months with the shallow content they have...it makes more sense for the dev's to sucker you out of more cash with shinnies in their cash shops and in some cases...enhancers that put you a step ahead of another player...causing a bum rush of spending to outdo one another.
Yeah. And that is why no modern game will have that bone headed design.
Think about it. Once a day = 365 a year. Can you imagine how long one has to wait if the server has 30k players (which is a tiny number)?
And that is not going to change anytime soon. In fact, why would any game justify a sub when you can have as much fun in a free game? That is the beauty of competition.
I doubt sub games are ever going to come back.
80+ years. But at least we could chit-chat for the rest of our lives until it was our turn to kill the mob...
Maybe not...because there are far too many impatient morons who will pay through the nose in cash shops for the chance at "Look at me!" items and power up items to get an advantage. Many spend far more in a given year on that stuff than they would with a monthly sub. In the brief time I played Allods Online (F2P MMORPG almost exactly like WoW)...I saw people spend hundreds on chests just for a chance at a special mount. Not to mention the game was P2W.
I made a picture for people who don't know how it worked in EQ.
In new MMO you rush mobs, in old MMO everyone in the group stayed in the same area except for the puller.
You're far more likely to talk to others if you aren't busy pressing your forward key.
Camping was a major component behind the socialising in EQ.
So.... the "old timers" who want the "glory days" of camping back *cant* do that, even though they love it, because it isnt "the most efficient way to level", but the *problem* is all of the "new immature and impatient young kids" who want silly things like "linear quests" and are "too impatient" to camp?
OK, got it. (thats all sarcasm btw)
How can people not see their own hypocrisy when they post ironic crap like that? So YOU are "too impatient" to not just CAMP like you claim to love doing (all of the like minded can ban together) and take an extra 8 days to hit max level (where you then sit for 6 months until next expansion anyway), but that is OK. What ISNT OK is all of the OTHER folks who are "too impatient" to camp.
So the only solution is that the entire game must be restructured to force everyone to do what you want to do without anyone else being able to progress faster than you.
So as great as camping supposedly was, and despite how much you supposedly miss it, it is SECONDARY to the fastest possible leveling.
OK, got that too (more sarcasm)
Ive been playing MMOs since UO and absolutely *hated* camping, but if I *did* love it, I would just do what that other poster said and camp in current games. Who cares if someone else can level faster through quests? Chinese leveling teams can level faster than ANYONE. Does that mean you're going to pay a Chinese leveling team to PLVL you?
Everyone feels that whatever play style they love MUST be made *mandatory* for everyone. Thats one of the biggest problems MMO devs have. Its an essentially unpleasable audience. No one wants compromise. All 12,000 niche interests want their particular flavor made absolutely exclusive.
That graph above takes it too a new level. A graph isnt necessary. People "get it". Its not that hard. The thing is, something doesnt have to be 1:1 DIRECTLY and LITERALLY to be close enough to the same. The basic idea of 5 friends just sitting around killing monsters all day is perfectly achievable in any MMO and will allow plenty of socializing. People use VOICE chat today too, which makes it even easier. Dont be ridiculous and try to pretend there is some 'science' that makes this silly argument objective rather than subjective
It's impossible because the rate of respawns is too low, and the density is too low. EQ has fast respawns and ridiculous mob density. It's also not fun if there's no challenge, EQ's challenge had partly to do with mob splitting.
It has nothing to do with hypocrisy.
You're arguing we should be playing tennis on a ping pong table, and if we don't, it's our hypocrisy. No it's just that it doesn't work.
Yeah .. and i have no problems with whales. They are the ones who subsidize our gaming. So if someone wants to buy a $15 hat in a game where i play free, be my guest.
And camping is practically gone after EQ. So the market does not want to socialize .. at least not this way.
Implementing a puller class and CC is a lot harder than doing rush style trinity gameplay.
Developers like the easiest way out most of the time, which is copying WoW, that uses a rush type trinity system.