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Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?
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You are kidding right? What you find sexually attractive has nothing to do with love. Imagine having a kid saying "Does that mean I'm gay becuase I love you daddy?" Wouldn't it just confuse the kid more? I'd feel like I've just dug a hole for myself with that explanation.
I do agree there is nothing mature/intelligent about sex though.
segregation for safety is fine.
as a counterpoint to some of the argumentation here, i could certainly see the space for a children's guild run by parents.
just don't develop a ghetto mindset. that' the danger of not allowing exposure to the world around us.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
If I were allowed to make an all white, heterosexual guild then maybe.
Anything less is sexist, racist or heterophobic.
once again someone in the absolute majority, a majority which has systematically repressed a group of people for centuries thinks that the same rules apply to them. well they don't. heterophobic would imply the ability to ruin your life, cause you to lose your job, or insist that you cannot marry the person you love, it would include being verbally harrassed for holding hands in public, or at times even physically assaulted. name me the heteros with this experience and we might could talk.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I don't guild any more, but I do have my own personal philosophy regarding this subject. In a game, I enter it as a character. Sure, my personality presents itself, but it's pretty neutral with regard to my sexual orientation, religion, and political beliefs. The reason is that for me, how I interact with others and play the game has nothing to do with these things, so there's no need to assert my stance with regard to them.
In fact, I think people who DO feel the need to assert their straightness/gayness/religiosity/athiesm/conservative/liberal/etc. stances in a game, generally have some kind of agenda and are looking for a conflict. They go straight to my /ignore list, even if they happen to be on the same side of the arguments as I am.
That stuff just has no place in a game, period.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Discriminating against people now because they had more rights in the past doesn't make things even. As distasteful as it sounds that type of guild has to have the same rules as any other or it isn't equal rights.
The odds of any guild being created not being mostly white, heterosexual and probably male is pretty close to zero. Creating a 'white, hetero' guild would be pointless. That already exists. There's no need to try and create a separate space.
I don't think guilds based on race would be allowed in any game. Race is a different can of worms, one that I don't think any developer wants to open. I'm not sure about an all female and all male guild. Again though, all male guilds already exist, there's no need to try and create a separate space for them.
One of the social aspects of guilds is finding people who may share common interests or who may have had the same experiences as the other people in the guild outside of the game. The guild I was in was composed of people who all worked for one company. We shared a common interest. From what I can see, this is the main point of a religious or LBGT guilds. Finding people who share a common interest or experiences when doing so otherwise would be nearly impossible in game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
GLBT guilds do not exclude anyone, they just ask that you be respectful to those in the guild who are of that orientation. Although I suppose that is discriminating against bigots and close minded a-holes.
respect goes both ways
if you want to be respected, don't do it by deliberately causing drama in games by dividing people by sexual orientation
I don't ever recall seeing a bunch of gay people mocking heterosexuals in any game I have played. Or causing drama by having a GLBT friendly guild. Care to share some examples?
I nominate Waterlilly for MMO President.. Keep up the good work in chat.. BTW, if you and like minded players, plan on playing EQN and if that game is any good, send me a note, as I'll come join your guild..
The fact this topic is 15 pages long within 24 hours means it causes drama.
Don't pretend like making a "Gay guild" doesn't cause drama. A "heterosexual" guild would cause drama too.
And as far as examples, there are plenty.
I believe it was WoW where a gay guild was disbanded because it was deemed discriminatory against heterosexuals.
And I have nothing against gay people, but if you want to be treated like an equal, then act like one, and don't join guilds just to be different and cause drama, you know it will cause drama.
It would be...of course the "funny" part is if you let these people form groups like that, in todays politically correct climate, they'd probably learn what it's like to walk a mile in the people they hates shoes. The avg person would not be very accepting of a guild that was based on hate or discrimination.
I have a rule about stupid names. I think they're a great idea. If the devs force someone to change it I might play with someone for hours before I know they're an idiot. Someone walking around with a name like ipeeinurmouth tells me right away to avoid them. The same thing goes for guilds. If you join a guild that's white/hetero/ect only I know to avoid those people.
Not everyone is a role player in character 24/7. I have regular chats with my guildies about RL. If you don't then good for you, but lots of people do, and they don't feel like getting harassed or feel marginalised.
Same as my place of work, we do not discuss Religion or Politics. They fuel wars and only cause problems eventually. Also, in every EULA or TOS I have read those two items have no place in any of the games on the market. They have political forums and religious places of worship for that kind of thing.
I think you missed Waterlilly's point.. She didn't say or imply that those clowns are representative of the community.. What I heard is "keep it private" and don't cause attention drama...... Anyways
Agreed, though sometimes it might come up through chatting with someone personally I don't see why that should be an issue or topic. Jeesh we always find ways to mess things up. Can't we just enjoy something for the sake of enjoyment.
As I said earlier, I am in a raid guild that really doesn't care about it and I happily chat to them about my RL, but threads like this only prove why there is a place for guilds like it. The amount of nonsense being spouted off by various people is ridiculous. Things like 'oh what if kids find out that there are gay people in the world?'. Oh geez, I don't know, maybe they will grow up to be more tolerant people or not commit suicide if they turn out to be gay. And crap about pride parades? Oh I wonder why we need them when people are still getting killed in various countries around the world for being gay, and there is still a whole bunch of misconception about it being a 'choice'.
The problem is that gay people are not equals, not yet, which is why they need to raise public awareness and surround themselves with communities who are accepting and not xenophobic.
You both missed the point that they are keeping it private by creating a community that is accepting of how they were born, so they aren't creating drama in another guild by exposing themselves to those clowns who will create drama about it.
again.. the point is keep it private.. I don't want the KKK out having parades, or making guilds promoting their BS.. Using the excuse of creating "awareness" is just sugar coating it.. I don't care if there is a GL guild, but do you need to label yourself as "GAY PRIDE" guild tag? Knowing damn well it's going to draw attention and from the wrong people.... See my point?
My rule of thumb is this: If bronies are allowed to congregate, than so is anyone else.
Also of note, an all white, heterosexual guild is commonly referred to as . . . a guild. There's lots of those guilds that happen to be that way without any intention and white, heterosexual, male happens to be the default in video games. So making a guild that's accepting of you is a bit silly.
Most themed guilds are open to everyone who wants to join and is comfortable being there. I would not be okay with a LGBT guild if they did not allow heteros, exclusion is teh badz. So if you want to start an all white, hetero guild, that's totally cool. But you have to make it open to everyone who wants to join - like I said, this is commonly referred to as "a guild".ahh...
so you take what a few people do and then infer that everyone of the same orientation/belief system does the same thing?
So if a few hundred do it then everyone does it?
so, like, when the Klan has a rally then that's indicative of everyone who is white? When a portion of a relgious group decries some segment of society that means everyone of that same belief believes the same way?
I see what you are.
Next time you are in guild chat actually listen to what is being said and you'll see that your sexual orientation can have quite a lot to do with how that group relates. Maybe just not in a way you ever noticed before.
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I agree! They should form a guild where they can discuss it in private...
Basicly, nowadays political correctness demands to tolerate a guild that says i.e. "gays only" - but if i'd create a guild saying "no gays", see how fast it would be banned.
Note that this is just an example. I don't have a problem with gay, lesbian or whatever people. I just don't need anyone to rub their orientation into my face when i'm playing a video game to escape just all that crap.
So no, i don't want lesbian/gay/jewish/muslim/whatever-only guilds in the games i play. Take your agenda to where it matters, if at all.
At least in a video game, we should all be the same...there i's enough separation in real life.