Poll - Do you want clearly defined roles in combat for EQ Next

Valkyrie

Originally posted by Dajag

Originally posted by Valkyrie

Originally posted by loopback1199

Originally posted by Blakkrskyrr

Originally posted by loopback1199

Originally posted by Blakkrskyrr

aren't classes and abilities simply the foundations for combat roles and you just need to form your character into it?  You can essentially create a class that has tanking abilities and can maintain most of the defensive needs of the group, and then also a character set around healing your party members, and then lastly a role of dps?  They say that there aren't classes that are singularly for a specific purpose over another.  With multi-classing, I can do what I want to in that I stand infront of my mates and take the brunt of the damage and also that my attacks and abilities simultaneously heal me and near by allies, which increases my survivability and reduces the stress of the main source of healing.  I don't see what the issue is. 

If someone knows what this reduces us to, please elaborate.  But otherwise, I don't see what the fuss is.  As long as someone isn't trying to do everything at once, which in of itself is retarded, aren't there roles to play just by playing well?

You've essentially just made it clear to everyone that they'll never need to group. You can tank, dps, and heal yourself all in one. Way to give your vote for single player games.

 

Godmode for all!

I guess I didn't articulate enough of what I meant.  I don't DPS.  At all.  Nor do I heal to the extent of making a primary healer negligible.  I play GW2 as a guardian and pretty much just have touchness and healing power.  I don't do much damage at all.  I use a hammer and mace/shield combo and am more focused on damage mitigation from my allies, with little damage output, and about mid healing ability.  If the groups I'm in for dungeons and such does not have a primary healer, then the group normally wipes, with me last, since I can maintain my health sufficiently.  Is that wrong? 

So no, not god-mode at all.  it's actually a viable playstyle for a WoW paladin back in the day.  Or what, you want roles that are ONLY meant to be meatbags, or ONLY backstabbing/arrow to the knee tearjerkers, and lastly ONLY binding up the meatbag?  

I understand what you're saying now, but it moves the argument back to zergfest. If you, by yourself, can sufficiently maintain things, then just get a whole group of the same build and roll through everything. DPS might be slow, but it's steady, and if this new (not) AI works as stated, then the mob will have to bounce around between everyone, giving you all a break to heal back up. That's just how I'm seeing this though, it may be different, I'm sure everyone hopes it'll be different, but there's still the possibility that this is how it might end up.

Try to watch it from the other side: you are so used to the AI programmed a certain way (that ridiculous taunting works and of course it goes for the heavily armored guy, because that makes so much SENSE) that you believe not having these roles is automatically without tactics and "zergfest".

That is simply not true. An intelligent AI makes these roles pretty much obsolete because the healer would always be the first to die, the tank never get even in reach of a mob and the damage dealer constantly rooted and stunned. If you are in such a situation SO limited to your roles ... you are dead.

I just want to make a small point here.... About TAUNTS

 

The concept of TAUNTING is not the fact that so and so calls your mother a hairy fat blob of lard rolls with her own gravitational pull... causing you to run over and smack him...

 

NO NO.. Taunting is a game mechanic developed to replace PHYSICS in games.. you see for years games have tried to prefect PHYSICS and have fallen way short.

 

In real life.. If CONAN the 300 pound linebacker who can run a 4 40 is standing between you and the 100 pound weakling in the back of the room tossing eggs at your face... and you try to run through CONAN he will choke the living shiz out of you. If you try and run around CONAN, he will choke the living SHIZ out of you. If you try to back up and toss eggs of your own CONAN will follow you and corner you and choke the living SHIZ out of you. SO you have to keep running from CONAN while tossing your eggs or stand and fight CONAN. If you turn your back to CONAN he does not disappear, NO he chokes the living SHIZ out of you.

Just like chess and football... you have to deal with the line before yo can get to the quarterback.

 

In games player characters do not have real Physics, you can just run through them, which in real life does not happen, if you run passed a guy like CONAN who is trained with a sword.. he chops off your head (attack of opportunity)

So TAUNTING was developed to replace PHYSICS as a mechanism to demonstrate the fact the players have mass and can not be walk through or around so easily.

 

Try it some time.. Give your friend a garbage can lid and a tire iron and have him stand in a doorway.. and you try and get by him without stopping to defend yourself.. let me know how it turned our when you get back from the hospital...

Maybe in your world "you have to deal with the line before ...". In my world it is brains over muscles and that means ... I find a way to ignore the line and make them look stupid while I deal with the actual weakness first.

Valkyrie

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Valkyrie

Originally posted by NomadMorlock
Personally I support having many different roles but the ability to switch skills to fill multiple roles.  Without roles, everyone is DPS and any encounter can be completed by a large number of cookie cutter characters who are all the same.

Actually I don't think that is true. For the clearest counter argument, try Defiance for a moment (there is a trial). Whatever weapon you pick defines what you can do, mix that up with the mods on the weapon that can completely turn the weapon aroun, the abiltiies you have activated on top from your Ego map (char advancement tree) individually and ... there is no cookie cutter. People make templates they like for their kind of gameplay, but there is a lot of variety of what comes out of it in the end. I'd go so far to claim that I see much LESS cookie cutter characters in Defiance than I see in EQ2 for example.

I love this about Defiance.  I'm using a scoped assault rifle with a linking BMG.  It fits perfectly how I like to play right now.  I'm still working out my second loadout.

One thing that is cool about that game is not all weapons of the same type work the same.  Not every assault rifle or pistol or SMG, etc fires and feels the same.  Add mods and EGO on top of that and each character feels different.

I hope there is a similar philosophy to this in EQN.  Sort of like Skyrim or TSW only to the next level.

Yup, exactly. I'm currently leaning more toward semi auto sniper guns and small machine gun but only because I have that neat VOT Pulser SMG. Can't for the life of me work with that FRC Sub Carbine I have as well, its short burst shooting properties don't work for me - despite being the same weapon type even. And my sniper gun is double tap as well, so one would think ... but no, personal preferences are strong. Turns out the weapon type (and thus in classical thinking the "role") does not matter nearly as much as the specific individual and modded weapon. And as they said in EQN you have this weapon modding too and several people from Defiance came to join EQN now ... If they put that functionality into a fantasy game it would be great, as this way you can truly develop your fight style.

Rydeson

So since taunting is OUT.. What are the roles of a pet?   Assuming pet attacks target and does a knock down..... THEN WHAT?  Smart mob goes after master (Mr squishy) and kills him?

Dajag

Originally posted by Valkyrie

Originally posted by Dajag

Originally posted by Valkyrie

Originally posted by loopback1199

Originally posted by Blakkrskyrr

Originally posted by loopback1199

Originally posted by Blakkrskyrr

aren't classes and abilities simply the foundations for combat roles and you just need to form your character into it?  You can essentially create a class that has tanking abilities and can maintain most of the defensive needs of the group, and then also a character set around healing your party members, and then lastly a role of dps?  They say that there aren't classes that are singularly for a specific purpose over another.  With multi-classing, I can do what I want to in that I stand infront of my mates and take the brunt of the damage and also that my attacks and abilities simultaneously heal me and near by allies, which increases my survivability and reduces the stress of the main source of healing.  I don't see what the issue is. 

If someone knows what this reduces us to, please elaborate.  But otherwise, I don't see what the fuss is.  As long as someone isn't trying to do everything at once, which in of itself is retarded, aren't there roles to play just by playing well?

You've essentially just made it clear to everyone that they'll never need to group. You can tank, dps, and heal yourself all in one. Way to give your vote for single player games.

 

Godmode for all!

I guess I didn't articulate enough of what I meant.  I don't DPS.  At all.  Nor do I heal to the extent of making a primary healer negligible.  I play GW2 as a guardian and pretty much just have touchness and healing power.  I don't do much damage at all.  I use a hammer and mace/shield combo and am more focused on damage mitigation from my allies, with little damage output, and about mid healing ability.  If the groups I'm in for dungeons and such does not have a primary healer, then the group normally wipes, with me last, since I can maintain my health sufficiently.  Is that wrong? 

So no, not god-mode at all.  it's actually a viable playstyle for a WoW paladin back in the day.  Or what, you want roles that are ONLY meant to be meatbags, or ONLY backstabbing/arrow to the knee tearjerkers, and lastly ONLY binding up the meatbag?  

I understand what you're saying now, but it moves the argument back to zergfest. If you, by yourself, can sufficiently maintain things, then just get a whole group of the same build and roll through everything. DPS might be slow, but it's steady, and if this new (not) AI works as stated, then the mob will have to bounce around between everyone, giving you all a break to heal back up. That's just how I'm seeing this though, it may be different, I'm sure everyone hopes it'll be different, but there's still the possibility that this is how it might end up.

Try to watch it from the other side: you are so used to the AI programmed a certain way (that ridiculous taunting works and of course it goes for the heavily armored guy, because that makes so much SENSE) that you believe not having these roles is automatically without tactics and "zergfest".

That is simply not true. An intelligent AI makes these roles pretty much obsolete because the healer would always be the first to die, the tank never get even in reach of a mob and the damage dealer constantly rooted and stunned. If you are in such a situation SO limited to your roles ... you are dead.

I just want to make a small point here.... About TAUNTS

 

The concept of TAUNTING is not the fact that so and so calls your mother a hairy fat blob of lard rolls with her own gravitational pull... causing you to run over and smack him...

 

NO NO.. Taunting is a game mechanic developed to replace PHYSICS in games.. you see for years games have tried to prefect PHYSICS and have fallen way short.

 

In real life.. If CONAN the 300 pound linebacker who can run a 4 40 is standing between you and the 100 pound weakling in the back of the room tossing eggs at your face... and you try to run through CONAN he will choke the living shiz out of you. If you try and run around CONAN, he will choke the living SHIZ out of you. If you try to back up and toss eggs of your own CONAN will follow you and corner you and choke the living SHIZ out of you. SO you have to keep running from CONAN while tossing your eggs or stand and fight CONAN. If you turn your back to CONAN he does not disappear, NO he chokes the living SHIZ out of you.

Just like chess and football... you have to deal with the line before yo can get to the quarterback.

 

In games player characters do not have real Physics, you can just run through them, which in real life does not happen, if you run passed a guy like CONAN who is trained with a sword.. he chops off your head (attack of opportunity)

So TAUNTING was developed to replace PHYSICS as a mechanism to demonstrate the fact the players have mass and can not be walk through or around so easily.

 

Try it some time.. Give your friend a garbage can lid and a tire iron and have him stand in a doorway.. and you try and get by him without stopping to defend yourself.. let me know how it turned our when you get back from the hospital...

Maybe in your world "you have to deal with the line before ...". In my world it is brains over muscles and that means ... I find a way to ignore the line and make them look stupid while I deal with the actual weakness fi

 

 

So by your world, you mean the closet, where you can be all by yourself, and what ever you believe is true,  because no one can interrupt your fantasy... No really that is the it happened baby, I just shoved the biker out of the way , did a quick quadratic equation to stun him, i did it so fast, he couldn't even hit me, and I took all his drug money.

Don't worry we all believe you... because your the smartest guy ever in all of history, that's why, today we no longer have infantrymen,  Riot police, or play football, because your to smart, and have made all those things single handedly obsolete.

I hear they even change the game of chess because of you, now it's just the queen and king, and the player that wins the coin toss, always wins the match.

Let us know when you get your cape and tights, HULK SMASH... FIRE BALL FIREBALL, TELEPORT< FIREBALL! I AM KING IN MY OWN MIND!! bow all before me...