Originally posted by BadOrb I'm not saying the cash shop will have P2W items but the early part of the model for the game isn't very promising at all , you must admit $100 straight off the bat before you have seen anything is a bit expensive and the possible P2W item you get for spending the money upfront is a bit disappointing , to me anyway.
Let's hope the cash shop is okay and not P2W for the EQNL community.
I understand and respect your opinion and everyone else that have these type of concerns.
With that said I do not understand everyone freaking out over a pay to play the game before other people option.
How is having random beta keys that you have to sign up for from websites you've probably never heard of or would never want to sign up for any better? People create hundreds of accounts to get that special beta key so they can sell it on eBay or wherever. Half the people that get in to 'test' the game, don't even care about the game. They just want it because it's unknown and new.
SOE is offering the uber fanboy/fangirl the opportunity to pay to secure your place in Alpha and then Beta as well. And something tells me that those people spending real money and investing in the game will be far better testers than a random strange that happens to walk through that door.
Now let's take a hard look at the deal. For 20 bucks you get into closed Beta. Plenty of indy games offered access to Beta to play. Path of Exile (an excellent game) did this. So why is this so unprecedented?
The alpha part is really for those that are already sold on the game and want to guarantee that they are first to see this thing. So SOE is charging for that opportunity. This is not unusual for a company to do this in any industry. You are by no means required to purchase any of these packs to play in the future. You just won't be able to play first. I don't see why this is any worse than some random with 58 email accounts getting to 'test' out a Alpha/Beta before you. At least with the Founder Pack option you have a choice. With the other options we see in the past you have no choice. Just a random chance and the odds are stacked against you. That is unless you bother to create dozens of email accounts as well. Then your chances might be a little better.
About the items: Nowhere did they say those items are exclusive. In fact the only part that we do know about when discussing items is the Void Vault. Which they say will take a player weeks to create one crafting. Since this game is heavily dependent upon player created material, there is a very good chance that the other stuff can be created as well. Or at least something equivalent. What probably will be exclusive are the flags and costumes.
The bottom line is that these founder packs are not for everyone. They are for those that are already sold on the game and excited to experience Landmark. The varying degrees of excitement changes based on how into the game you are. Want to be in Beta? Throw down $20 and you're in. A F2P business model mentioned before that is similar to Grinding Gear Games and others. Want to be in Alpha? Surprise you don't have to be friends or family with a developer! You can pay $60 and you're in. Want to be in Alpha, want to be first to lay your claim and want to get stuff that will get you a leg up on your adventure? $100. It will cost you, but that pack is for the diehards and I see nothing wrong that.
On top of all that you still have the option to 'test' the game through beta keys.
TONS OF OTHER MMOs only have Betas on the Weekend or select days.
So why is getting a Beta Key that lasts 7 days that bad? More over the keys stack so you can extend that time significantly.
So if you want to get your strange on, feel free and sign up and see if you get a free key and check out the game.
If you want a guarantee, that's going to cost you. Considering that other MMOs don't even offer you the option to guarantee entrance into Alpha/Beta, I don't really see the problem. Just pretend that the Founder Packs don't exist and apply for a Beta spot, just like you would with Wildstar, ESO, etc.
More like you are paying the company to be lab rats. They'll still be doing the work. Just that you'll be there experiencing the game design choices/experiments while they're doing it and providing feedback.
Giving away free Beta Keys randomly or from third party sites that hold stupid contests is an awful way of getting a player base to test your game design on. Majority of those you get will barely log in and provide little to no feedback.
How engaged do you think someone will be with the game that actually spent real money on it?
Originally posted by BadOrb I'm not saying the cash shop will have P2W items but the early part of the model for the game isn't very promising at all , you must admit $100 straight off the bat before you have seen anything is a bit expensive and the possible P2W item you get for spending the money upfront is a bit disappointing , to me anyway.
Let's hope the cash shop is okay and not P2W for the EQNL community.
About the items: Nowhere did they say those items are exclusive. In fact the only part that we do know about when discussing items is the Void Vault. Which they say will take a player weeks to create one crafting. Since this game is heavily dependent upon player created material, there is a very good chance that the other stuff can be created as well. Or at least something equivalent. What probably will be exclusive are the flags and costumes.
You might want to watch today's video where he says that the tier 1 pick / top tier axe's are exclusive, you can find it here
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Exclusive but not more powerful than what you can build in the game. That pick is not going to give you an advantage a month after release. It is more like the Hero Band I got with GW2 pre-order or the Bow with my AOC preorder where it helped my newbie characters for a while but by mid level it was simply in the bank or destroyed because it was worthless.
Exclusive but not more powerful than what you can build in the game. That pick is not going to give you an advantage a month after release. It is more like the Hero Band I got with GW2 pre-order or the Bow with my AOC preorder where it helped my newbie characters for a while but by mid level it was simply in the bank or destroyed because it was worthless.
About your first sentence , we don't actually know yet , but of course tiers move in MMO's over time. He does say top tier axe as in it doubles as a top tier weapon , so it is a top tier axe from the off after spending $20 - $100.
Hopefully that won't be a trend in the game as i hope it turns out to be a fun minecraft / EQ crossover MMO's.
I guess we shall leave the ring / bracer convo alone.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
About your first sentence , we don't actually know yet , but of course tiers move in MMO's over time. He does say top tier axe as in it doubles as a top tier weapon , so it is a top tier axe from the off after spending $20 - $100.
Hopefully that won't be a trend in the game as i hope it turns out to be a fun minecraft / EQ crossover MMO's.
I guess we shall leave the ring / bracer convo alone.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
You and I must have taken that "Top Tier Axe" comment two different ways. To my understanding, the axe would be used to harvest lumber, not fight battles. I could be wrong about that thought.
If the axe is used to fight battles, let us consider that combat won't be in the game at release. This will give all the other players time to catch up. So, if the axe is supposed to be used in combat instead of harvesting, I say "who cares?". Nobody will get the chance to use it for a while anyway.
- - "What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?" - -
About your first sentence , we don't actually know yet , but of course tiers move in MMO's over time. He does say top tier axe as in it doubles as a top tier weapon , so it is a top tier axe from the off after spending $20 - $100.
Hopefully that won't be a trend in the game as i hope it turns out to be a fun minecraft / EQ crossover MMO's.
I guess we shall leave the ring / bracer convo alone.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
You and I must have taken that "Top Tier Axe" comment two different ways. To my understanding, the axe would be used to harvest lumber, not fight battles. I could be wrong about that thought.
If the axe is used to fight battles, let us consider that combat won't be in the game at release. This will give all the other players time to catch up. So, if the axe is supposed to be used in combat instead of harvesting, I say "who cares?". Nobody will get the chance to use it for a while anyway.
Good point there, still it's the top tier gathering axe , still a bit dubious really , but yeah we shall see. Hm the top lumberjack's in the alpha and beta's are the ones who have paid ? Fair enough.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
ive been pretty excited overall to see how this pans out. but looking forward to the beta in February i thought, mistakenly, that it would be an open beta at that point.
now? its weird, but for some reason selling off early access to a beta, which is really a beta to the beta for EQN, just kinda flipped a switch. i dont care as much anymore.
im by no means suggesting that SOE not sell Founder's Packs and the like, just a personal observation on how the marketing has affected my interest level overall.
It really is weird, I just realized this:
Pay to enter beta.
Play the game for free.
Kinda weird. Im interested but I'm not paying to enter a beta. I will just try to get one free or wait to live, anyway, it's free.
While you're right that he calls those specific items exclusive, I'll point to another part where I specifically say -
there is a very good chance that the other stuff can be created as well. Or at least something equivalent.
Of course we don't know that's true or not.
Option 1: We can just go on thinking that only Founders will have access to the Top Tier 1 materials...forever.
Option 2: Or we could be rational and think that he is talking about that specific Toolset that looks 'fancy.'
Nah, let's go with option 1. 'Cause ya know this is an MMORPG forum. Gotta have the drama.
No I agree , we just don't know yet. Just a little worried that's all. No drama , we see enough on here yeah . Of course there will be other gathering items in alpha and beta or the beta key people from the lottery would just be standing there going yeah very pretty but what the hell do i do .
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
You're paying for access sooner than others from everything I'm reading.
They could either do it random or have a site do a contest or they could make money from it.
I'm shocked that a business chose option number 3.
You are not shocked to pay for something you should not pay ?
if we start to charge you 5 $ for go take a shit in my business you will be okay with that too ?
after all you could totaly ''WAIT'' and go somewhere else.
because they are business they are allowed to rips off people and get money they can anywhere and everywhere right ?
what about moral ?
alpha test are game not even finished, THEY NEED PEOPLE FOR HELP THEM TEST IT, not the other way around....
but let give them money for help them !! after all we are fool !
In Europe it's common to pay to use public restrooms even in businesses. Of course they are keep really clean as a result so it's probably not a bad thing when you compare it to the average American restroom.
There is two ways to look at this. One the one hand limiting alpha and beta to people willing to spend money up front could result in nothing but fanboys either happy or disgruntled testing your game. The devs run the risk of having so much sunshine shoved up your rear end that the final result is a game with deep and significant flaws that the few people who did try and bring up during testing got overwhelmed by the people defending "their" game to the last breath.
On the other hand you could say that the people who care the most about producing a good game and not taking every opportunity to burn the whole thing down in flame wars are those who have the most invested in it. The dev's themselves and the companies behind them have the most invested for sure but asking for people with access to testing to also pitch in to make them invested a bit could be seen as a way to weed out the freeloaders and unredeemable haters from the system.
Personally I think a little of both ends up happening in these kinds of tests. It's not as simple as saying that all testers who pay will lean over for the dev's at request or that all people you select at random for free will be unredeemable haters. It's somewhere in the middle of those statements.
Not that I think this has anything to do with concern over the testing community. Companies see this as a legitimate means to drum up pre sales. It's a perk just like those hats or mounts you get for ordering the deluxe or collectors editions of games.
Comments
I understand and respect your opinion and everyone else that have these type of concerns.
With that said I do not understand everyone freaking out over a pay to play the game before other people option.
How is having random beta keys that you have to sign up for from websites you've probably never heard of or would never want to sign up for any better? People create hundreds of accounts to get that special beta key so they can sell it on eBay or wherever. Half the people that get in to 'test' the game, don't even care about the game. They just want it because it's unknown and new.
SOE is offering the uber fanboy/fangirl the opportunity to pay to secure your place in Alpha and then Beta as well. And something tells me that those people spending real money and investing in the game will be far better testers than a random strange that happens to walk through that door.
Now let's take a hard look at the deal. For 20 bucks you get into closed Beta. Plenty of indy games offered access to Beta to play. Path of Exile (an excellent game) did this. So why is this so unprecedented?
The alpha part is really for those that are already sold on the game and want to guarantee that they are first to see this thing. So SOE is charging for that opportunity. This is not unusual for a company to do this in any industry. You are by no means required to purchase any of these packs to play in the future. You just won't be able to play first. I don't see why this is any worse than some random with 58 email accounts getting to 'test' out a Alpha/Beta before you. At least with the Founder Pack option you have a choice. With the other options we see in the past you have no choice. Just a random chance and the odds are stacked against you. That is unless you bother to create dozens of email accounts as well. Then your chances might be a little better.
About the items: Nowhere did they say those items are exclusive. In fact the only part that we do know about when discussing items is the Void Vault. Which they say will take a player weeks to create one crafting. Since this game is heavily dependent upon player created material, there is a very good chance that the other stuff can be created as well. Or at least something equivalent. What probably will be exclusive are the flags and costumes.
The bottom line is that these founder packs are not for everyone. They are for those that are already sold on the game and excited to experience Landmark. The varying degrees of excitement changes based on how into the game you are. Want to be in Beta? Throw down $20 and you're in. A F2P business model mentioned before that is similar to Grinding Gear Games and others. Want to be in Alpha? Surprise you don't have to be friends or family with a developer! You can pay $60 and you're in. Want to be in Alpha, want to be first to lay your claim and want to get stuff that will get you a leg up on your adventure? $100. It will cost you, but that pack is for the diehards and I see nothing wrong that.
On top of all that you still have the option to 'test' the game through beta keys.
TONS OF OTHER MMOs only have Betas on the Weekend or select days.
So why is getting a Beta Key that lasts 7 days that bad? More over the keys stack so you can extend that time significantly.
So if you want to get your strange on, feel free and sign up and see if you get a free key and check out the game.
If you want a guarantee, that's going to cost you. Considering that other MMOs don't even offer you the option to guarantee entrance into Alpha/Beta, I don't really see the problem. Just pretend that the Founder Packs don't exist and apply for a Beta spot, just like you would with Wildstar, ESO, etc.
More like you are paying the company to be lab rats. They'll still be doing the work. Just that you'll be there experiencing the game design choices/experiments while they're doing it and providing feedback.
Giving away free Beta Keys randomly or from third party sites that hold stupid contests is an awful way of getting a player base to test your game design on. Majority of those you get will barely log in and provide little to no feedback.
How engaged do you think someone will be with the game that actually spent real money on it?
/shrug
You might want to watch today's video where he says that the tier 1 pick / top tier axe's are exclusive, you can find it here
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/399616
The first video.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Exclusive but not more powerful than what you can build in the game. That pick is not going to give you an advantage a month after release. It is more like the Hero Band I got with GW2 pre-order or the Bow with my AOC preorder where it helped my newbie characters for a while but by mid level it was simply in the bank or destroyed because it was worthless.
About your first sentence , we don't actually know yet , but of course tiers move in MMO's over time. He does say top tier axe as in it doubles as a top tier weapon , so it is a top tier axe from the off after spending $20 - $100.
Hopefully that won't be a trend in the game as i hope it turns out to be a fun minecraft / EQ crossover MMO's.
I guess we shall leave the ring / bracer convo alone.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
You and I must have taken that "Top Tier Axe" comment two different ways. To my understanding, the axe would be used to harvest lumber, not fight battles. I could be wrong about that thought.
If the axe is used to fight battles, let us consider that combat won't be in the game at release. This will give all the other players time to catch up. So, if the axe is supposed to be used in combat instead of harvesting, I say "who cares?". Nobody will get the chance to use it for a while anyway.
- - "What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?" - -
Good point there, still it's the top tier gathering axe , still a bit dubious really , but yeah we shall see. Hm the top lumberjack's in the alpha and beta's are the ones who have paid ? Fair enough.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
While you're right that he calls those specific items exclusive, I'll point to another part where I specifically say -
there is a very good chance that the other stuff can be created as well. Or at least something equivalent.
Of course we don't know that's true or not.
Option 1: We can just go on thinking that only Founders will have access to the Top Tier 1 materials...forever.
Option 2: Or we could be rational and think that he is talking about that specific Toolset that looks 'fancy.'
Nah, let's go with option 1. 'Cause ya know this is an MMORPG forum. Gotta have the drama.
It really is weird, I just realized this:
Pay to enter beta.
Play the game for free.
Kinda weird. Im interested but I'm not paying to enter a beta. I will just try to get one free or wait to live, anyway, it's free.
No I agree , we just don't know yet. Just a little worried that's all. No drama , we see enough on here yeah
. Of course there will be other gathering items in alpha and beta or the beta key people from the lottery would just be standing there going yeah very pretty but what the hell do i do 
.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
In Europe it's common to pay to use public restrooms even in businesses. Of course they are keep really clean as a result so it's probably not a bad thing when you compare it to the average American restroom.
There is two ways to look at this. One the one hand limiting alpha and beta to people willing to spend money up front could result in nothing but fanboys either happy or disgruntled testing your game. The devs run the risk of having so much sunshine shoved up your rear end that the final result is a game with deep and significant flaws that the few people who did try and bring up during testing got overwhelmed by the people defending "their" game to the last breath.
On the other hand you could say that the people who care the most about producing a good game and not taking every opportunity to burn the whole thing down in flame wars are those who have the most invested in it. The dev's themselves and the companies behind them have the most invested for sure but asking for people with access to testing to also pitch in to make them invested a bit could be seen as a way to weed out the freeloaders and unredeemable haters from the system.
Personally I think a little of both ends up happening in these kinds of tests. It's not as simple as saying that all testers who pay will lean over for the dev's at request or that all people you select at random for free will be unredeemable haters. It's somewhere in the middle of those statements.
Not that I think this has anything to do with concern over the testing community. Companies see this as a legitimate means to drum up pre sales. It's a perk just like those hats or mounts you get for ordering the deluxe or collectors editions of games.
Your example is ludicrous.
Going to the bathroom is a basic function of being alive. Playing Alpha or Closed Beta for a video game is not.
There's no 'we.' If YOU choose not to buy the Founder Pack, that is YOUR choice. There is no collective 'we.' This isn't the borg.