the obvious difference between Guildwars and 'mmorpg's' isthe lack of a non linear world to explore and play in. thats why Guildwars isnt an mmorpg and what it lacks for mmorpg players. like i said before its Diablo with linear based instances. and alot of Diablo style players wouldnt like an mmorpg, or are burned out from them and probably need more a action rpg like Guildwars is. to me it just lacks that huge world thats open to explore whichever path you take. not some linear path based on quests that force you one way.
Some of you would rather have a linear based instance that cuts out all the travel in other mmorpg's and just gets you to the meat of the fighting and loot. Others dont mind the long travel times that are part of a mmorpg 'world'. You obviously have to take the good with the bad, if those 'worlds' let you get from A to B so easily then it would trivialize it as a 'world'. So now you have a 'linear' path to follow where you dont have the long travel times, at the same time you have little to no 'worldly' feel at all in comparison to real mmorpg's.
Bottomline is Guildwars is very different from 'mmorpg's', and leans much closer to the 'actionrpg' genre than 'mmorpg' genre. If anything id call it an 'online actionrpg'. i dont know how a few of you still pretend to presume its a 'mmorpg', it lacks in so many ways from economy to community, to just an open world to explore thats nonlinear which defines mmorpg's. I think the distinction is important and should be made many times over, especially here where people come to find out about 'mmorpgs'. since there are many people who have gotten the wrong impression of Guildwars from the fanbois who seem to misrepresent the game. So threads like these DO matter I remember i got into an argument here once months back with a Guildwars fanboi who tried to argue with me that it isnt anythign like Diablo. I couldnt believe what this person was saying considering its Diablo3, you'd have to be completely ignorant or blind not to see the similarities.
Im sure it'll be successful since Diablo was very successful and there are alot of gamers that have been waiting for another Diablo. Thats partly why the great reviews dont surprise me. I just have a problem with how its presented by some people or compared to mmorpg's. Hopefully posts/threads like these clear up some of the misrepresentations floating around~
Originally posted by waveslayer I think the original posters real point is that Guild wars not being far removed from WoW, seems to be the direction MMos are heading. They seem to be getting easier , maybe even to easy.
Some of us would like an MMo thats a little more complicated, there is nothing wrong with that. If you want ease then thats fine. But, it would be nice to have one made in the other direction. Personally I dont mind walking forever, I dont mind harsh death penalties. I dont mind having to think about what I am doing. But then again I enjoy complicated games to begin with.
For the sake of discussion, what existing MMORPGs would you classify as being hardcore / complicated? Out of that list, which are you currently playing and if you did play any of them in the past, why have you quit playing?
It really comes down to the market. If the numbers aren't there for the existing MMORPGs (classified as hardcore/complicated), then why would a developer/publisher take the risk on developing another one? Granted other things like lore and storyline have a lot to do with it also.
i think your both right. Guildwars IS less complicated, has less depth, and is less hardcore than your typical mmorpg in terms of being a 'mmorpg'. That said there IS a market out there for rpg players that want a more action focused rpg w/o the hassles of a mmorpg that focuses on pvp. ie Diablo. Diablo was a big seller so obviously a market exists which hasnt had a sequel in a long time, let alone an online version of it, and thats the market Guildwars caters to.
I wouldnt say the mmorpg market is dead considering how successful WOW is. I just dont blame companies for not wanting to compete against the current ones. Since good and working mmorpgs are very difficult to make in the first place(there have been countless failures), and competing against a market thats dominated by a few very good ones is a poor investment.
I look at SOE who were very successful with EQ1 as a good example of the difficulty in making a great mmorpg, and attracting players. With that success spawned SWG, and more recently EQ2 which were both big budget, highly anticipated mmorpgs where i'm sure they thought they'd make more initially than they actually have/did. Theyve slowly been knocked off their pedestal due to competition, and their own difficulty in making a game as ground-breaking as EQ1 was, if anything their probably cutting back on their mmorpg budgets over at Sony due to not being able to have that same success with much higher budgeted games. I dont blame companies for staying away from the mmorpg genre at this point, since more fail than succeed, and the competition right now makes it difficult to pull players away from the already established mmorpg's.
YEAH! A person should have to do monotinous killing for a weeks worth of playing time (not the time you play in a week, the kind where you do /played and it says Play time 7 days) before they're allowed to have fun! If you plan to have fun in a MMO, you have to discard all real life matters; it's the defining element of the game FFS!
/sarcasm
I just cancelled WoW (I've been to AO, DAoC, EQ, EQ2 Trial, GW Beta, Linage I beta, MxO beta, Planetside, and a few others...no noob here ;p ) and probably plan to get GW in a few days.
Comments
the obvious difference between Guildwars and 'mmorpg's' isthe lack of a non linear world to explore and play in. thats why Guildwars isnt an mmorpg and what it lacks for mmorpg players. like i said before its Diablo with linear based instances. and alot of Diablo style players wouldnt like an mmorpg, or are burned out from them and probably need more a action rpg like Guildwars is. to me it just lacks that huge world thats open to explore whichever path you take. not some linear path based on quests that force you one way.
Some of you would rather have a linear based instance that cuts out all the travel in other mmorpg's and just gets you to the meat of the fighting and loot. Others dont mind the long travel times that are part of a mmorpg 'world'. You obviously have to take the good with the bad, if those 'worlds' let you get from A to B so easily then it would trivialize it as a 'world'. So now you have a 'linear' path to follow where you dont have the long travel times, at the same time you have little to no 'worldly' feel at all in comparison to real mmorpg's.
Bottomline is Guildwars is very different from 'mmorpg's', and leans much closer to the 'actionrpg' genre than 'mmorpg' genre. If anything id call it an 'online actionrpg'. i dont know how a few of you still pretend to presume its a 'mmorpg', it lacks in so many ways from economy to community, to just an open world to explore thats nonlinear which defines mmorpg's. I think the distinction is important and should be made many times over, especially here where people come to find out about 'mmorpgs'. since there are many people who have gotten the wrong impression of Guildwars from the fanbois who seem to misrepresent the game. So threads like these DO matter
I remember i got into an argument here once months back with a Guildwars fanboi who tried to argue with me that it isnt anythign like Diablo. I couldnt believe what this person was saying considering its Diablo3, you'd have to be completely ignorant or blind not to see the similarities.
Im sure it'll be successful since Diablo was very successful and there are alot of gamers that have been waiting for another Diablo. Thats partly why the great reviews dont surprise me. I just have a problem with how its presented by some people or compared to mmorpg's. Hopefully posts/threads like these clear up some of the misrepresentations floating around~
there is something massive in guild wars, massive bordom
I couldn't agree more
For the sake of discussion, what existing MMORPGs would you classify as being hardcore / complicated? Out of that list, which are you currently playing and if you did play any of them in the past, why have you quit playing?
It really comes down to the market. If the numbers aren't there for the existing MMORPGs (classified as hardcore/complicated), then why would a developer/publisher take the risk on developing another one? Granted other things like lore and storyline have a lot to do with it also.
i think your both right. Guildwars IS less complicated, has less depth, and is less hardcore than your typical mmorpg in terms of being a 'mmorpg'. That said there IS a market out there for rpg players that want a more action focused rpg w/o the hassles of a mmorpg that focuses on pvp. ie Diablo. Diablo was a big seller so obviously a market exists which hasnt had a sequel in a long time, let alone an online version of it, and thats the market Guildwars caters to.
I wouldnt say the mmorpg market is dead considering how successful WOW is. I just dont blame companies for not wanting to compete against the current ones. Since good and working mmorpgs are very difficult to make in the first place(there have been countless failures), and competing against a market thats dominated by a few very good ones is a poor investment.
I look at SOE who were very successful with EQ1 as a good example of the difficulty in making a great mmorpg, and attracting players. With that success spawned SWG, and more recently EQ2 which were both big budget, highly anticipated mmorpgs where i'm sure they thought they'd make more initially than they actually have/did. Theyve slowly been knocked off their pedestal due to competition, and their own difficulty in making a game as ground-breaking as EQ1 was, if anything their probably cutting back on their mmorpg budgets over at Sony due to not being able to have that same success with much higher budgeted games. I dont blame companies for staying away from the mmorpg genre at this point, since more fail than succeed, and the competition right now makes it difficult to pull players away from the already established mmorpg's.
YEAH! A person should have to do monotinous killing for a weeks worth of playing time (not the time you play in a week, the kind where you do /played and it says Play time 7 days) before they're allowed to have fun! If you plan to have fun in a MMO, you have to discard all real life matters; it's the defining element of the game FFS!
/sarcasm
I just cancelled WoW (I've been to AO, DAoC, EQ, EQ2 Trial, GW Beta, Linage I beta, MxO beta, Planetside, and a few others...no noob here ;p ) and probably plan to get GW in a few days.