In SWTOR you can grind credits which will unlock SOME things but they capped the limit to 200k (F2P) limit, so unlocks costing more your just SOL. I got lucky last night and managed to get the Artifact unlock, character only of course but normally they sell for over 200k on my server. The other day, bought a Cargo Bay Unlock(Account), not realizing I really wanted the Cargo Hold to unlock my ships cargo. Of course there was no warning and after I bought it let me use it, despite the fact it's worthless without the Cargo Hold unlock.
Everywhere you turn in this game your getting pissed on for not paying, it really is pretty humorous. Humorous? Heck yeh, this game screams "FU for making us do this!". It so ridiculous and petty the level of nag/F2P hate that I can actually visualize fellow EA/BioWare employees walking past the F2P team cubicles and spitting on them. They in turn concocting another lockout for F2P players, thus completing the circle of hate. I think it's safe to assume the F2P team are Sith Lords.
I am actually enjoying the game, buying F2P unlocks is a game in it's self. Will I ever give them a dime, I doubt it. In LOTR, Turbine lured me in with easy TP points right in the beginning. I gradually started to unlock XPACs which in turn gave my characters new areas for more TP points, until one day I just subbed. It was actually quite smart. EVE was even better, CCP treats PLEX exactly as a subscriber! Once you realize the cost of losing ships your just better off subbing and saving a ton of ISKs each month. IMO, that is the problem with SWTOR it really does not have a graceful way to get you to pay. They treat F2P (potential customers) like dirt, heck they don't even treat the preferred members well (returning customers)!
The OP tried to play and drew a line when they used the games UI as another club to knock you over the head with to pay. That's the point, everyone has there "line" with all these F2P games. All we can do as a community is show the line before someone wastes their time downloading/creating an account. In the end everyone has a different threshold, and SWTOR will most defiantly push yours to the limits.
Does anyone else see the disconnect between complaining about EA's greed in SWToR by complaining about not getting enough free stuff?
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that EA is pushing this game as FREE to play. People see FREE and they think that is what it means. It is why I stay away from games so title because they are lying about that FREE part just to reel in customers to SPEND money. In the old days, they would call those things ding joints. Now, if EA (and others) wish to call those types of PAYMENT models something other then f2p, I might reconsider.
TERA is still the best game in this regard, you don't feel any different than a P2P player when you're playing as F2P, you have access to every class, dungeon and item in the game through the broker. Even cosmetics and race changes.
There are many different types of free-to-play models which have varying degrees of how hard they push for microtransactions.
SWTOR's approach is particularly bad since not only is it doing the usual stuff like constantly spamming the user, selling cosmetics and selling pay2win gear, but they are going a step further by going pay-2-UI.
The only decent thing the game has is the story quests - which they give away - the rest of the user experience has purposely been made really bad in order to frustrate the user into paying.
Good F2P models generally try to hook the player in and get them playing as much as possible, SWTOR basically says pay for the basic user experience or GTFO.
Originally posted by Gruug Originally posted by lizardbonesDoes anyone else see the disconnect between complaining about EA's greed in SWToR by complaining about not getting enough free stuff?
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that EA is pushing this game as FREE to play. People see FREE and they think that is what it means. It is why I stay away from games so title because they are lying about that FREE part just to reel in customers to SPEND money. In the old days, they would call those things ding joints. Now, if EA (and others) wish to call those types of PAYMENT models something other then f2p, I might reconsider.
If people think a game is FREE, as in they don't have to pay for anything, then they deserve the tears and disappointment that they'll get. Luckily there are millions upon millions of people who are capable of figuring out the simple concept.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by lizardbonesDoes anyone else see the disconnect between complaining about EA's greed in SWToR by complaining about not getting enough free stuff?
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that EA is pushing this game as FREE to play. People see FREE and they think that is what it means. It is why I stay away from games so title because they are lying about that FREE part just to reel in customers to SPEND money. In the old days, they would call those things ding joints. Now, if EA (and others) wish to call those types of PAYMENT models something other then f2p, I might reconsider.
If people think a game is FREE, as in they don't have to pay for anything, then they deserve the tears and disappointment that they'll get. Luckily there are millions upon millions of people who are capable of figuring out the simple concept.
Wrong.
It's called "Free to Play" by the owners of SWTOR themselves. The "misunderstanding" was not just the fault of the Customers.
EA and BioWare have no one else to blame but themselves, same goes for all the other MMO Publishers that use that BS marketing term "Free To Play", "F2P", "Hybrid F2P", etc.
The MMO Publishers brought this upon themselves. I have no sympathy for them. This was foreseeable.
There are many different types of free-to-play models which have varying degrees of how hard they push for microtransactions.
SWTOR's approach is particularly bad since not only is it doing the usual stuff like constantly spamming the user, selling cosmetics and selling pay2win gear, but they are going a step further by going pay-2-UI.
The only decent thing the game has is the story quests - which they give away - the rest of the user experience has purposely been made really bad in order to frustrate the user into paying.
Good F2P models generally try to hook the player in and get them playing as much as possible, SWTOR basically says pay for the basic user experience or GTFO.
I totally agree with you. EA/Bioware totally failed at trying to give players an enjoyable F2P game. I uninstalled SWTOR and have no intention of ever playing it again. The closed world was bad enough without making their F2P version unplayable for casual players.
Originally posted by lizardbonesDoes anyone else see the disconnect between complaining about EA's greed in SWToR by complaining about not getting enough free stuff?
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that EA is pushing this game as FREE to play. People see FREE and they think that is what it means. It is why I stay away from games so title because they are lying about that FREE part just to reel in customers to SPEND money. In the old days, they would call those things ding joints. Now, if EA (and others) wish to call those types of PAYMENT models something other then f2p, I might reconsider.
If people think a game is FREE, as in they don't have to pay for anything, then they deserve the tears and disappointment that they'll get. Luckily there are millions upon millions of people who are capable of figuring out the simple concept.
You know what people are complaining about. You must have just felt the need to post nonsense didn't you?
It's clear what the problem is. The same people who hated this game calling it Tortanic are just really really angry that even with this F2P model the game is doing really well.
Having a 1 million total players really just pisses them off. It really burns them that no mater how much they hate this game it just keeps doing really well. Even the F2P model is doing well and they can't deal with it.
So they come here to talk about how bad it is to try and feel better.
It's clear what the problem is. The same people who hated this game calling it Tortanic are just really really angry that even with this F2P model the game is doing really well.
Having a 1 million total players really just pisses them off. It really burns them that no mater how much they hate this game it just keeps doing really well. Even the F2P model is doing well and they can't deal with it.
So they come here to talk about how bad it is to try and feel better.
I would have to call you out on two things in your post. You mention "1 million total players" and that "the F2P model is doing well". First off, where is that "1 million total players" come from? Second, what is defined as "doing well"? Do you have some links that verify you comments? Perhaps you have information that many of us have not seen.
Originally posted by Thorkune Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by GruugOriginally posted by lizardbonesDoes anyone else see the disconnect between complaining about EA's greed in SWToR by complaining about not getting enough free stuff?
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that EA is pushing this game as FREE to play. People see FREE and they think that is what it means. It is why I stay away from games so title because they are lying about that FREE part just to reel in customers to SPEND money. In the old days, they would call those things ding joints. Now, if EA (and others) wish to call those types of PAYMENT models something other then f2p, I might reconsider.If people think a game is FREE, as in they don't have to pay for anything, then they deserve the tears and disappointment that they'll get. Luckily there are millions upon millions of people who are capable of figuring out the simple concept.You know what people are complaining about. You must have just felt the need to post nonsense didn't you?
Nope. "I'm not getting enough free stuff!" is a bad argument to highlight EA's greed. If greed is bad, and if EA being greedy is bad, then being a greedy player is bad too.
That EA is greedy should be obvious though. They're a corporation. Greed is built in from the start. It's why they exist. Complaining about EA being greedy is like going to the ocean and complaining about all the salt. We don't need any examples of them being greedy to know they are greedy because it's a base component of their makeup.
That's not to say I think they made good choices with their cash shop items. I don't think action bars are a good thing to charge for, but then I don't think SWToR is a very good game anyway, so it doesn't matter that much to me. They are giving away the character stories, the best part of the game for free and getting players to pay for things that aren't that much fun. A counter point to my opinion is that there are a million people playing the game and the game's population of subscribers stabilized at about a half million players. This is a good indicator that the choices EA made were good ones. Many people either don't mind paying for the action slots, or they don't mind doing without the action slots.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I was coming back to the game, lost my account info, was making a new account, everything's good.
Made a new toon, couldn't roll a sith, had to pay for that or unlock in in legacy.....ok, that's cool too, gotta make money somehow, saw new races, that's interesting.
So then I am playing, was enjoying it, done the story before but you know, was enjoying it all the same. So I got some new moves, was telling myself "I want to put that rush ability above my builder, cause it will make for easier clicking." cause I am a clicker.
Then it came up, I HAD TO PURCHASE THE ABILITY TO HAVE EXTRA HOTBARS.
so I uninstalled the game, came here to moan, and warn people talk about how horrible the cash shop is in the game, well here is a prime example.
There is quite a lot wrong with SWTOR's FTP model....but bringing up having to pay for an additional hotbar to stack 2 abilities on top of eachother, 100% gives you away as a fraud...
If you want some valid things to commplain about, I suggest you visit http://www.swtor.com/free/features, cherry pick what frustrates you, then come here and make up another story about how you installed it, made a new toon again, got mad at "xxxx", and quickly uninstalled the game.
Its not that people want more free stuff, its that the basic user experience is really terrible compared to what other free2play titles offer.
People who would like to actually play and may be willing to pay for stuff like cosmetics are simply being turned off due to the arbitrary UI limitations.
The correct term for SWTORs payment model should be: Gimped2Play
Its not that people want more free stuff, its that the basic user experience is really terrible compared to what other free2play titles offer.
People who would like to actually play and may be willing to pay for stuff like cosmetics are simply being turned off due to the arbitrary UI limitations.
The correct term for SWTORs payment model should be: Gimped2Play
Or, expanded free trial to a subscription based game, which it functionally is.
It's clear what the problem is. The same people who hated this game calling it Tortanic are just really really angry that even with this F2P model the game is doing really well.
Having a 1 million total players really just pisses them off. It really burns them that no mater how much they hate this game it just keeps doing really well. Even the F2P model is doing well and they can't deal with it.
So they come here to talk about how bad it is to try and feel better.
I would have to call you out on two things in your post. You mention "1 million total players" and that "the F2P model is doing well". First off, where is that "1 million total players" come from? Second, what is defined as "doing well"? Do you have some links that verify you comments? Perhaps you have information that many of us have not seen.
This is the last time I link the 10 million accounts and 1 million play per month , I even think I posted it in this very thread , keep up with the news please , it's getting really annoying.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
It's clear what the problem is. The same people who hated this game calling it Tortanic are just really really angry that even with this F2P model the game is doing really well.
Having a 1 million total players really just pisses them off. It really burns them that no mater how much they hate this game it just keeps doing really well. Even the F2P model is doing well and they can't deal with it.
So they come here to talk about how bad it is to try and feel better.
I would have to call you out on two things in your post. You mention "1 million total players" and that "the F2P model is doing well". First off, where is that "1 million total players" come from? Second, what is defined as "doing well"? Do you have some links that verify you comments? Perhaps you have information that many of us have not seen.
Bad orb linked to the artilce above
how can I prove its doing well? Well aside from the large number of players
1. The servers have a steady healthy population
2. New content every 6 weeks. This is a huge deal not only is it a fast content cycle but it shows they are putting resources back into the game. Less then 1 year after launch Warhammer online stop adding any content.
That's not the case for SWTOR
3. Hiring. We know that Bioware has been hiring new talent for SWTOR over the past few months. If the game is doing bad you don't grow your staff
4. They did say not too long ago that SWTOR has more then doubled its income since going F2P
As for the defintion of doing well. I would say that doing well is a steady player base and new content being added on a regular basis.
Now you seem to think its not doing well. Well perhaps you have seen some information that the rest of have not seen so please enlighten me.
Oh and if you have to fall back on the old "It went F2P in less then a year" Then I know you got nothing.
its surviving, Theres an element of succes in that, too
did they improve? of course, if they hadnt, they would have shut down
this is the story-driven mmo, that couldnt continue the stories-FAIL
this is the mmo, that boasted large scale PVP, but couldnt handle it-FAIL
this is the STAR WARS mmo, without a proper Space part-FAIL
no matter, how much paint , you slab on the rust, you still wont get rid of it
the very concept of the game is flawed
hint: the Company , that made it, got hit by severe cutbacks
AND, they stopped the expensive VOs
that wouldnt have happened, if the game was a SUCCESS
The VO's weren't expensive. It was all the Q / A choices that cost time and money , to produce and test.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
its surviving, Theres an element of succes in that, too
did they improve? of course, if they hadnt, they would have shut down
this is the story-driven mmo, that couldnt continue the stories-FAIL
this is the mmo, that boasted large scale PVP, but couldnt handle it-FAIL
this is the STAR WARS mmo, without a proper Space part-FAIL
Apparently this poster is the single source of truth when it comes to 'success / failures' in MMOs and we should abide by its definition. /Sarcasm
he was spot on with those fail arguments though.
except he is wrong
They have continued the Story they have done massive updates with tons of new story content.
They have also not stopped the voice acting at all. Every new content comes complete with new fully voiced mission. Hell for GSF they even brought back all of the companions to record new dialouge.
Well actually no it never boasted large scale PVP
They actually said it would be grouped gurella combat
Of course even with that there is large scale pvp that happens. It is only on PVP servers but it happens. Gree event is the perfect example and I know you are going to say "But its people waiting in line" yeah that doesnt happen on PVP servers.
Define proper space Does he mean SWG style? Because that kind of sucked. If you ever played SWG the space combat was bad. Nostialgia makes people think it was amazing but it was horribley balanced. and often very boring as you wouldn't see anyone else
Comments
In SWTOR you can grind credits which will unlock SOME things but they capped the limit to 200k (F2P) limit, so unlocks costing more your just SOL. I got lucky last night and managed to get the Artifact unlock, character only of course but normally they sell for over 200k on my server. The other day, bought a Cargo Bay Unlock(Account), not realizing I really wanted the Cargo Hold to unlock my ships cargo. Of course there was no warning and after I bought it let me use it, despite the fact it's worthless without the Cargo Hold unlock.
Everywhere you turn in this game your getting pissed on for not paying, it really is pretty humorous. Humorous? Heck yeh, this game screams "FU for making us do this!". It so ridiculous and petty the level of nag/F2P hate that I can actually visualize fellow EA/BioWare employees walking past the F2P team cubicles and spitting on them. They in turn concocting another lockout for F2P players, thus completing the circle of hate. I think it's safe to assume the F2P team are Sith Lords.
I am actually enjoying the game, buying F2P unlocks is a game in it's self. Will I ever give them a dime, I doubt it. In LOTR, Turbine lured me in with easy TP points right in the beginning. I gradually started to unlock XPACs which in turn gave my characters new areas for more TP points, until one day I just subbed. It was actually quite smart. EVE was even better, CCP treats PLEX exactly as a subscriber! Once you realize the cost of losing ships your just better off subbing and saving a ton of ISKs each month. IMO, that is the problem with SWTOR it really does not have a graceful way to get you to pay. They treat F2P (potential customers) like dirt, heck they don't even treat the preferred members well (returning customers)!
The OP tried to play and drew a line when they used the games UI as another club to knock you over the head with to pay. That's the point, everyone has there "line" with all these F2P games. All we can do as a community is show the line before someone wastes their time downloading/creating an account. In the end everyone has a different threshold, and SWTOR will most defiantly push yours to the limits.
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that EA is pushing this game as FREE to play. People see FREE and they think that is what it means. It is why I stay away from games so title because they are lying about that FREE part just to reel in customers to SPEND money. In the old days, they would call those things ding joints. Now, if EA (and others) wish to call those types of PAYMENT models something other then f2p, I might reconsider.
Let's party like it is 1863!
The OP is right in his complaints.
There are many different types of free-to-play models which have varying degrees of how hard they push for microtransactions.
SWTOR's approach is particularly bad since not only is it doing the usual stuff like constantly spamming the user, selling cosmetics and selling pay2win gear, but they are going a step further by going pay-2-UI.
The only decent thing the game has is the story quests - which they give away - the rest of the user experience has purposely been made really bad in order to frustrate the user into paying.
Good F2P models generally try to hook the player in and get them playing as much as possible, SWTOR basically says pay for the basic user experience or GTFO.
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that EA is pushing this game as FREE to play. People see FREE and they think that is what it means. It is why I stay away from games so title because they are lying about that FREE part just to reel in customers to SPEND money. In the old days, they would call those things ding joints. Now, if EA (and others) wish to call those types of PAYMENT models something other then f2p, I might reconsider.
If people think a game is FREE, as in they don't have to pay for anything, then they deserve the tears and disappointment that they'll get. Luckily there are millions upon millions of people who are capable of figuring out the simple concept.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Wrong.
It's called "Free to Play" by the owners of SWTOR themselves. The "misunderstanding" was not just the fault of the Customers.
EA and BioWare have no one else to blame but themselves, same goes for all the other MMO Publishers that use that BS marketing term "Free To Play", "F2P", "Hybrid F2P", etc.
The MMO Publishers brought this upon themselves. I have no sympathy for them. This was foreseeable.
I totally agree with you. EA/Bioware totally failed at trying to give players an enjoyable F2P game. I uninstalled SWTOR and have no intention of ever playing it again. The closed world was bad enough without making their F2P version unplayable for casual players.
You know what people are complaining about. You must have just felt the need to post nonsense didn't you?
hate to break it to you but if the game won't run 10 people on your computer guess what its not the game its your computer.
Go check out twitch and see the game runs fine.
It's clear what the problem is. The same people who hated this game calling it Tortanic are just really really angry that even with this F2P model the game is doing really well.
Having a 1 million total players really just pisses them off. It really burns them that no mater how much they hate this game it just keeps doing really well. Even the F2P model is doing well and they can't deal with it.
So they come here to talk about how bad it is to try and feel better.
I would have to call you out on two things in your post. You mention "1 million total players" and that "the F2P model is doing well". First off, where is that "1 million total players" come from? Second, what is defined as "doing well"? Do you have some links that verify you comments? Perhaps you have information that many of us have not seen.
Let's party like it is 1863!
If people think a game is FREE, as in they don't have to pay for anything, then they deserve the tears and disappointment that they'll get. Luckily there are millions upon millions of people who are capable of figuring out the simple concept.
You know what people are complaining about. You must have just felt the need to post nonsense didn't you?
Nope. "I'm not getting enough free stuff!" is a bad argument to highlight EA's greed. If greed is bad, and if EA being greedy is bad, then being a greedy player is bad too.
That EA is greedy should be obvious though. They're a corporation. Greed is built in from the start. It's why they exist. Complaining about EA being greedy is like going to the ocean and complaining about all the salt. We don't need any examples of them being greedy to know they are greedy because it's a base component of their makeup.
That's not to say I think they made good choices with their cash shop items. I don't think action bars are a good thing to charge for, but then I don't think SWToR is a very good game anyway, so it doesn't matter that much to me. They are giving away the character stories, the best part of the game for free and getting players to pay for things that aren't that much fun. A counter point to my opinion is that there are a million people playing the game and the game's population of subscribers stabilized at about a half million players. This is a good indicator that the choices EA made were good ones. Many people either don't mind paying for the action slots, or they don't mind doing without the action slots.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
There is quite a lot wrong with SWTOR's FTP model....but bringing up having to pay for an additional hotbar to stack 2 abilities on top of eachother, 100% gives you away as a fraud...
If you want some valid things to commplain about, I suggest you visit http://www.swtor.com/free/features, cherry pick what frustrates you, then come here and make up another story about how you installed it, made a new toon again, got mad at "xxxx", and quickly uninstalled the game.
Its not that people want more free stuff, its that the basic user experience is really terrible compared to what other free2play titles offer.
People who would like to actually play and may be willing to pay for stuff like cosmetics are simply being turned off due to the arbitrary UI limitations.
The correct term for SWTORs payment model should be: Gimped2Play
Or, expanded free trial to a subscription based game, which it functionally is.
This is the last time I link the 10 million accounts and 1 million play per month , I even think I posted it in this very thread , keep up with the news please , it's getting really annoying.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1396514-SWTOR-has-10million-Casual-Players
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Bad orb linked to the artilce above
how can I prove its doing well? Well aside from the large number of players
1. The servers have a steady healthy population
2. New content every 6 weeks. This is a huge deal not only is it a fast content cycle but it shows they are putting resources back into the game. Less then 1 year after launch Warhammer online stop adding any content.
That's not the case for SWTOR
3. Hiring. We know that Bioware has been hiring new talent for SWTOR over the past few months. If the game is doing bad you don't grow your staff
4. They did say not too long ago that SWTOR has more then doubled its income since going F2P
As for the defintion of doing well. I would say that doing well is a steady player base and new content being added on a regular basis.
Now you seem to think its not doing well. Well perhaps you have seen some information that the rest of have not seen so please enlighten me.
Oh and if you have to fall back on the old "It went F2P in less then a year" Then I know you got nothing.
it happened a year ago=it didnt happen at all? really?
Theres the reason for a lot of troubles, people with the attention span of a goldfish
because it did a complete 180. The game completely turned around its growing for gods sake. how do you not understand the game is doing good?
"good" is subjective
its surviving, Theres an element of succes in that, too
did they improve? of course, if they hadnt, they would have shut down
this is the story-driven mmo, that couldnt continue the stories-FAIL
this is the mmo, that boasted large scale PVP, but couldnt handle it-FAIL
this is the STAR WARS mmo, without a proper Space part-FAIL
no matter, how much paint , you slab on the rust, you still wont get rid of it
the very concept of the game is flawed
hint: the Company , that made it, got hit by severe cutbacks
AND, they stopped the expensive VOs
that wouldnt have happened, if the game was a SUCCESS
The VO's weren't expensive. It was all the Q / A choices that cost time and money , to produce and test.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Apparently this poster is the single source of truth when it comes to 'success / failures' in MMOs and we should abide by its definition. /Sarcasm
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
he was spot on with those fail arguments though.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
So if I say 'SWTOR isn't as good as the Star Trek Holodeck / Matrix - FAIL' that will be 'spot on'?
lolwut?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
except he is wrong
They have continued the Story they have done massive updates with tons of new story content.
They have also not stopped the voice acting at all. Every new content comes complete with new fully voiced mission. Hell for GSF they even brought back all of the companions to record new dialouge.
Well actually no it never boasted large scale PVP
They actually said it would be grouped gurella combat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTgbKxnHIdw
Of course even with that there is large scale pvp that happens. It is only on PVP servers but it happens. Gree event is the perfect example and I know you are going to say "But its people waiting in line" yeah that doesnt happen on PVP servers.
Define proper space Does he mean SWG style? Because that kind of sucked. If you ever played SWG the space combat was bad. Nostialgia makes people think it was amazing but it was horribley balanced. and often very boring as you wouldn't see anyone else