They should charge a reasonable amount per level for levels beyond 20 (or so) initial free levels and then nothing else until expansions up the level cap.
I like the "try before you buy" aspect of F2P but I hate feeling like I'm being marketed at constantly. I'd rather make one decision to spend money on a game vs. 100 tiny decisions.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Konfess The true response to your question is, Nothing I want, Nothing I need, Nothing related to my game play style. BTW cosmetic and vanity are nothing but euphemism for the concept of Gay. The LGBT is offended by the idea of having to support the playstyle of a freeloading community.There are four archetypical gamer types: Killers, Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers. Typically the cash shop items not regarded as P2W target Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers (Not that this group is made up entirely of LGBT or vice versa).Those who decry P2W, see it as anything that puts a cost on the Killer type gamer playstyle.
WTF, man. There is not a left field left enough to figure out where this came from.
Payment models have nothing to do with sexual orientation.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Konfess The true response to your question is, “Nothing I want, Nothing I need, Nothing related to my game play style.” BTW cosmetic and vanity are nothing but euphemism for the concept of “Gay”. The LGBT is offended by the idea of having to support the playstyle of a freeloading community.There are four archetypical gamer types: Killers, Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers. Typically the cash shop items not regarded as P2W target Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers (Not that this group is made up entirely of LGBT or vice versa).Those who decry P2W, see it as anything that puts a cost on the Killer type gamer playstyle.
WTF, man. There is not a left field left enough to figure out where this came from.
Payment models have nothing to do with sexual orientation.
Originally posted by TheCrow2k People need to get over this whole "boosts or advantages in PvE is pay 2 win" because it is total nonsense. Selling things that give a tangible advantage in PvP is not acceptable because its direct competition on an uneven playing field. Selling PvE items doesn't really hurt anyone &companies can make some money.
This isn't nonsense. XP Boosts to "get there 1st" can be a serious P2W mechanic, among other seemingly innocent buffs. The ability to reach a goal ahead of others and thus create a control point, bottleneck or dominance in certain areas of the game, (Economy, PVP territory, etc) Can absolutely lead to a long standing, consistent advantage that once a player becomes entrenched, they become very difficult to remove.
Originally posted by Konfess The true response to your question is, “Nothing I want, Nothing I need, Nothing related to my game play style.” BTW cosmetic and vanity are nothing but euphemism for the concept of “Gay”. The LGBT is offended by the idea of having to support the playstyle of a freeloading community.There are four archetypical gamer types: Killers, Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers. Typically the cash shop items not regarded as P2W target Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers (Not that this group is made up entirely of LGBT or vice versa).Those who decry P2W, see it as anything that puts a cost on the Killer type gamer playstyle.
WTF, man. There is not a left field left enough to figure out where this came from.
Payment models have nothing to do with sexual orientation.
lolololololoololol
That last line alone.... (The one highlighted in blue) could very easily be taken out of context and argued.
Originally posted by Konfess The true response to your question is, “Nothing I want, Nothing I need, Nothing related to my game play style.” BTW cosmetic and vanity are nothing but euphemism for the concept of “Gay”. The LGBT is offended by the idea of having to support the playstyle of a freeloading community.There are four archetypical gamer types: Killers, Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers. Typically the cash shop items not regarded as P2W target Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers (Not that this group is made up entirely of LGBT or vice versa).Those who decry P2W, see it as anything that puts a cost on the Killer type gamer playstyle.
WTF, man. There is not a left field left enough to figure out where this came from.
Payment models have nothing to do with sexual orientation.
I was in a guild with an open Gay member and an open Lesbian member. For some time these members felt that “Vanity Items” were targeting their community. Over time new members joined that were not aware of these players sexual orientation. Statements were made in voice chat by these new players that items sold in cash shops in general, were not meant for heterosexual gamers.
All the staff in my doctor’s office are of the LGBT community and gamers. I always bring a book on game development to read in the waiting room. So they all knew I was a gamer and independant developer, so they all asked me why it seems that cash shops target the LGBT.
I realize that not all games do this, or market to the LGBT exclusively. I also realize that 12 people don’t speak for the entire LGBT population.
Do you agree that P2W means anything that affects the KIller gamer playstyle? And Vanity means anything that has its effect to Killer gamer playstyle either minimized or removed? The result is cash shops are stocked with Non-Killer Gamer Items(NKGI) or only NKGI are felt to be acceptable for cash shop sale.
The follow up question to this thread, should be. How many times have you bought and XP boost in a cash shop and had a guild member say in chat. “What are you a non-heterosexual?” or something like that. Again I am not saying this happens 100% of the time and to 100% of the LGBT. But it does happen.
Ethical behavior has everything to do with impressions. This is a statement often repeated in ethic training. My original post was meant to inform the readers of this thread of an impression that is growing in acceptance. You may believe that “Payment models have nothing to do with sexual orientation.” But there is an impression that it does.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Originally posted by Konfess The true response to your question is, “Nothing I want, Nothing I need, Nothing related to my game play style.” BTW cosmetic and vanity are nothing but euphemism for the concept of “Gay”. The LGBT is offended by the idea of having to support the playstyle of a freeloading community.There are four archetypical gamer types: Killers, Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers. Typically the cash shop items not regarded as P2W target Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers (Not that this group is made up entirely of LGBT or vice versa).Those who decry P2W, see it as anything that puts a cost on the Killer type gamer playstyle.
WTF, man. There is not a left field left enough to figure out where this came from.
Payment models have nothing to do with sexual orientation.
I was in a guild with an open Gay member and an open Lesbian member. For some time these members felt that “Vanity Items” were targeting their community. Over time new members joined that were not aware of these players sexual orientation. Statements were made in voice chat by these new players that items sold in cash shops in general, were not meant for heterosexual gamers.
All the staff in my doctor’s office are of the LGBT community and gamers. I always bring a book on game development to read in the waiting room. So they all knew I was a gamer and independant developer, so they all asked me why it seems that cash shops target the LGBT.
I realize that not all games do this, or market to the LGBT exclusively. I also realize that 12 people don’t speak for the entire LGBT population.
Do you agree that P2W means anything that affects the KIller gamer playstyle? And Vanity means anything that has its effect to Killer gamer playstyle either minimized or removed? The result is cash shops are stocked with Non-Killer Gamer Items(NKGI) or only NKGI are felt to be acceptable for cash shop sale.
The follow up question to this thread, should be. How many times have you bought and XP boost in a cash shop and had a guild member say in chat. “What are you a non-heterosexual?” or something like that. Again I am not saying this happens 100% of the time and to 100% of the LGBT. But it does happen.
I'm lost...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
How many times have me, my friends, anyone I know, have spoken with in or out of a game bought anything on a cs (boosts, equipment, clothing, pets, mounts, house…. Anything at all) and had someone call me out or made any mention whatsoever about being straight or gay?
Answer – none.
Do I think it happens? No. I do think that some people may be feeling more targeted, but that is their perception which is not reflective of reality.
The idea that only LGBT use vanity items, or use vanity items any more than other people is ludicous as is anything that thinks this. Vanity items are some of if not the biggest industry (if it was just one industry anyway) and largest expenditures of people in RL, why would a game be any different.
Do I think that P2W means anything that affects the Killer gameplay style?
No. Virtually all items are sold on cs now. Some with power, some without, boosts, bag space, mounts, abilities… all can affect the killer, explorer, social, achiever gameplay – all are called out and debated in this forum.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Voting is based on opinion. However, one must be smart enough to see through all the lies told by politicians to see which one really fits their opinion of what is needed.
In this country (US) far too many people vote based off of the lies or fear created from scare campaigns then by actually reaching down in and looking at the truth and the real issues. That is essentially what the other poster is referencing and although snarky and sarcastic, the underlying point is valid. Too many people don't know how to look for real facts and just believe any random thing they hear at face value.
Oh, so you are a politician as well? Because you sound precisely like one - preaching, misleading, creating illusion of fear, pointing fingers.
Irony?
There is no need for any of that, election is a process of expression. People can express themselves, whether they want to make a research or want to vote based on their feeling, w/e they decide. It is their choice, their right.
Your first line also had no merit or basis to it. You randomly spewed that to try and attack and when you look at the post above it, it just reads absolutely silly. Nice work there and no, absolutely no irony there.
What you just described is pure irresponsibility. Voting without the facts and info is a terrible thing to do. You can also buy a car without any research at all. You have a right to do that, but it is irresponsible as there may be all kinds of problems and safety issues with it. With that you are risking yourself and a few other people on the road. With voting you are risking an entire town/state/ or nation. The "I don't want to learn, have the proper knowledge, or do any research, but damn it I want to vote to make myself feel good!!" crowd is one of the worst to exist.
You can ruin a nation and destroy entire classes of people by voting because of the emotion that some lie instilled in you. You are actually describing what is wrong with the modern world. Thanks for making it so clear to everyone else.
Originally posted by Konfess The true response to your question is, “Nothing I want, Nothing I need, Nothing related to my game play style.” BTW cosmetic and vanity are nothing but euphemism for the concept of “Gay”. The LGBT is offended by the idea of having to support the playstyle of a freeloading community.There are four archetypical gamer types: Killers, Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers. Typically the cash shop items not regarded as P2W target Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers (Not that this group is made up entirely of LGBT or vice versa).Those who decry P2W, see it as anything that puts a cost on the Killer type gamer playstyle.
WTF, man. There is not a left field left enough to figure out where this came from.
Payment models have nothing to do with sexual orientation.
I was in a guild with an open Gay member and an open Lesbian member. For some time these members felt that “Vanity Items” were targeting their community. Over time new members joined that were not aware of these players sexual orientation. Statements were made in voice chat by these new players that items sold in cash shops in general, were not meant for heterosexual gamers.
All the staff in my doctor’s office are of the LGBT community and gamers. I always bring a book on game development to read in the waiting room. So they all knew I was a gamer and independant developer, so they all asked me why it seems that cash shops target the LGBT.
I realize that not all games do this, or market to the LGBT exclusively. I also realize that 12 people don’t speak for the entire LGBT population.
Do you agree that P2W means anything that affects the KIller gamer playstyle? And Vanity means anything that has its effect to Killer gamer playstyle either minimized or removed? The result is cash shops are stocked with Non-Killer Gamer Items(NKGI) or only NKGI are felt to be acceptable for cash shop sale.
The follow up question to this thread, should be. How many times have you bought and XP boost in a cash shop and had a guild member say in chat. “What are you a non-heterosexual?” or something like that. Again I am not saying this happens 100% of the time and to 100% of the LGBT. But it does happen.
I'm lost...
In what respect, or to which item? BTW, the exterminator just came to the door here, so I will be back and forth
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Hypothetically given the criteria outlined in the OP.
Here is the way I would like to see a cash shop set up in a MMO. I write this not as a gamer, but from the standpoint of the developer. I would not add any lockbox or other items of chance to a cash shop as that promotes binge spending instead of sustainable income (would rather get $5/month from 90% of the player base instead of 90% of the $ from 5% of the player base).
- For the first 30 day/100hrs game play ... no in-game access to the cash shop, but you can access the cash shop via a web based store front . There will be no store pop-ups or advertising in game during this trial period. This lets the player get to know the game and the game to know the player.
- Cash shop will be tailored to the user after the trial period is over. Gamers who spend no money will see basic items from the different gamer types (killer, social, explorer, achievers, crafters).
- Items to be sold in the cash shop will be given user loyalty grades (basic, supporter, champion, ViP ...)
- Users will be given a loyalty grade based on how much $ has been spent with the company (this grade will/could carry across all titles if company produces more than one game). This user loyalty grade will be tied to the loyalty grades of the items displayed in the cash shop. Users with a higher loyalty grade will be shown items with higher loyalty grades.
- After the first month/100 hours of gameplay (or which ever comes first), the store icon will be added to a non-premium location of the UI. If the user has not spent any $ in the online web store they will also see a cash store pop-up. The pop-up will continue to display to users who have not spent money every 50 hours of gameplay. After one year of free play the pop-up will appear on every log in.
- The store should adjust itself to the user; a user that purchases more cosmetic stuff should see the cosmetic items first when entering the store. People with different loyalty levels will see different items in the store, and depending on their buying habits may see them in a different order.
- If the game offers a sub, then that user will be placed at the ViP level of loyalty for the length of time sub is active, and that money spent will add up so that after a year of subscription the user will always be a ViP even if they un-sub.
- I do not think that items should be sold directly to the user, but a quest chain (solo, group, raid, heroic raid) which rewards the item could be sold.
- Items purchased in the cash shop would be BoA, and could not be sold. This would ensure that only players who support the company have access to the benefits.
I think developers should reward the user who support the company, and they should do it in a way that does not punish the gamers who do not spend money on their games. It should work much like the Airlines Frequent Flyer miles or the ViP Perks at casinos. People who do not spend money should have access to the same game as those that do spend money. However, the people that spend money should have access to more in the game store.
Originally posted by SnarlingWolfYour first line also had no merit or basis to it. You randomly spewed that to try and attack and when you look at the post above it, it just reads absolutely silly. Nice work there and no, absolutely no irony there.
You brought up politicians and their practicies, yet you have done the same in your very post what you condemn them for - irony. Thus logical assumption would be to ask if you are also a politician.
And you still continue with your agenda.
You admit that people have their right to be, as you put it - irresponsible, but you do not hesitate to remove the right off them.
Then, it is no wonder you consider democratic principles and human rights to be the bane of modern society since they are a real threat to authocratic system you promote.
I think mostly cosmetics , clothing and maybe some boosts of some sorts. What is horrifying to me is Rift's approach of selling the second from top raiding items , that's a no no to me , mind you I am an old school gamer at heart. Also after watching a recent Gamebreaker tv the republic show , two of the people would buy a maxed level character from the cash shop ( SWTOR ) and/or a certificate/pass to only do the class stories. What is that all about , the whole point ( to me of an MMO ) is the journey , achievement of getting somewhere in said MMO. So if they sell such items it defeats the whole purpose of actually playing the game. Mind you with WOW letting you have a level 85 character by only buying the next expansion is similar ( I know it's not a cash shop item but it's the same principle ) and is also an awful idea.
To conclude , it's best to not sell anything that is defined as P2W. Also if any of the above happen in an MMO I play I will just up and leave , sorry but this market is /has changed and I don't want this trend to continue , maybe the Subscription based MMO model has all but long gone , but for gods sake , let the players actually play the game and if they don't like the levelling experience then that's not their fault but the dev's.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Your first line also had no merit or basis to it. You randomly spewed that to try and attack and when you look at the post above it, it just reads absolutely silly. Nice work there and no, absolutely no irony there.
You brought up politicians and their practicies, yet you have done the same in your very post what you condemn them for - irony. Thus logical assumption would be to ask if you are also a politician.
And you still continue with your agenda.
You admit that people have their right to be, as you put it - irresponsible, but you do not hesitate to remove the right off them.
Then, it is no wonder you consider democratic principles and human rights to be the bane of modern society since they are a real threat to authocratic system you promote.
I went back and reread the posts several time.
I don't think he said anything you are reporting.
While an intelligent test is IMO extreme, the reasons he gave IMO are valid and I actually do agree with. So while I support and agree with the reason, the the conclusion and subsequent actions that should be taken I do not agree with.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa Because if I'm already paying money for the game, I should have access to the game. There shouldn't be shop exclusive items.Its a GAME not a STORE. I should be able to play the GAME to get the GAME reward.
You only rephrased what you stated before - that there should be no shop with exclusive items.
How many times have me, my friends, anyone I know, have spoken with in or out of a game bought anything on a cs (boosts, equipment, clothing, pets, mounts, house…. Anything at all) and had someone call me out or made any mention whatsoever about being straight or gay?
Answer – none.
This has not happened to you or anyone you know? Congratulations.
Do I think it happens? No. I do think that some people may be feeling more targeted, but that is their perception which is not reflective of reality.
Are you saying you believe it doesn’t happen at all? To absolutely no one? In a case of violation of ethics, impressions do matter.
The idea that only LGBT use vanity items, or use vanity items any more than other people is ludicous as is anything that thinks this. Vanity items are some of if not the biggest industry (if it was just one industry anyway) and largest expenditures of people in RL, why would a game be any different.
This is the opposite of what I said and meant. What I said is that Explorers, Socializers, and Achievers are targeted in the cash shop. Then I elaborated that E.S.A are not entirely LGBT or that LGBT is entirely E.S.A.
I also agree that IRL vanity items are a big industry (especially sports team jerseys). It would be ludicrous to think that IRL, vanity items were either marketed or sold to the LGBT exclusively. Here is why I think a game would be different. I expect to see subscribers (either hetero or not) buying and wearing vanity gear with their free cash shop points. I don’t expect to see Free Gamers PvPing in vanity costumes or buying anything. But I do expect they are playing IRL in their favorite team jersey.
Do I think that P2W means anything that affects the Killer gameplay style?
No. Virtually all items are sold on cs now. Some with power, some without, boosts, bag space, mounts, abilities… all can affect the killer, explorer, social, achiever gameplay – all are called out and debated in this forum.
I see what you are saying, buying an unlock of 100 bag slots could affect a Killer gamer equally as an OP Epic Legendary Weapon. But I think the Epic Legendary weapon would be called P2W, more often and more loudly than the bag slots. Are you saying that since all items are sold on the cash shop now, all items are P2W?.
LoL. If you read DeathWolf2U's post, right after this one. It is a reiteration of my points from my original post
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
1. Reduce dramatically what items cost in the cash shop = more people will buy stuff which = company makes even more money because of the increase of people buying i.e. Neverwinter for example only here, charging $40 to $50 just for a mount is an insane amount which in turn not many people buy that item. Reduce the cost to a reasonable amount and more people buy. I mean a realistic cost not something stupid like even $20 for a mount.
2. Do not sell any items in the cash shop like potions, gear or whatever that gives a person and unfair advantage in PvP if that game has it. Hence Pay To Win where it really hurts. It's bad enough to compete with cheaters scripting in PvP let alone giving them even a bigger edge by buying items in the cash shop.
When these two things are responsibly addressed by the gaming companies they might find a more successful F2P model like Path of Exile for one.
1. Reduce dramatically what items cost in the cash shop = more people will buy stuff which = company makes even more money because of the increase of people buying i.e. Neverwinter for example only here, charging $40 to $50 just for a mount is an insane amount which in turn not many people buy that item. Reduce the cost to a reasonable amount and more people buy. I mean a realistic cost not something stupid like even $20 for a mount.
2. Do not sell any items in the cash shop like potions, gear or whatever that gives a person and unfair advantage in PvP if that game has it. Hence Pay To Win where it really hurts. It's bad enough to compete with cheaters scripting in PvP let alone giving them even a bigger edge by buying items in the cash shop.
When these two things are responsibly addressed by the gaming companies they might find a more successful F2P model like Path of Exile for one.
1. Raph Koster pointed out in a recent AMA (and I'm paraphrasing here) that if a company keeps their prices set in a particular way it is because people are paying those prices and meeting the revenue expectation. How do you know not many people are buying mounts and companions, or other things in that cash shop at their current prices. Cryptic reduced the prices shortly after launch, but haven't reduced them much since. That sort of signals that they are happy with the prices.
2. What other ways to people gain advantage in pvp in an rpg? Should those be removed as well? When is gaining advantage non-tactical advantage one way okay, but not another?
How do you conclude that models outside of PoE aren't successful?
1. I know because I played Neverwinter and only a handful of people actually bought the mounts and companions from the cash shop. That was also only one example I gave there are a ton of others but I think you and everyone else gets the point.
2. This makes absolutely no sense. I'm trying to figure out what your point is that you are trying to get across but I don't see it. I gave two reasons that give an unfair advantage in PvP and are very real. How you even begin to debate that is beyond me or you are one of the ones that thrive on the over advantage with the two methods I mentioned.
3. Again PoE was only one example there are more out there. I'm starting to think you are just looking to argue with anything that someone says which proves it by you attempting to debate me which failed.
Comments
TSW has the best payment model of all the mmos on the market.
B2P + Cosmetic + Expac store = Winx3
Herald of innovation, Vanquisher of the old! - Awake a few hours almost everyday!
They should charge a reasonable amount per level for levels beyond 20 (or so) initial free levels and then nothing else until expansions up the level cap.
I like the "try before you buy" aspect of F2P but I hate feeling like I'm being marketed at constantly. I'd rather make one decision to spend money on a game vs. 100 tiny decisions.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I think they should be like TSW's item shop.
Pets, Titles, Clothes and Outfits, AP Boost that don't give you a huge advantage, Weapons that you can find in game.
I think TSW, Guild Wars 2 and Rift do F2P as well as you can.
WTF, man. There is not a left field left enough to figure out where this came from.
Payment models have nothing to do with sexual orientation.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
lolololololoololol
This isn't nonsense. XP Boosts to "get there 1st" can be a serious P2W mechanic, among other seemingly innocent buffs. The ability to reach a goal ahead of others and thus create a control point, bottleneck or dominance in certain areas of the game, (Economy, PVP territory, etc) Can absolutely lead to a long standing, consistent advantage that once a player becomes entrenched, they become very difficult to remove.
That last line alone.... (The one highlighted in blue) could very easily be taken out of context and argued.
I was in a guild with an open Gay member and an open Lesbian member. For some time these members felt that “Vanity Items” were targeting their community. Over time new members joined that were not aware of these players sexual orientation. Statements were made in voice chat by these new players that items sold in cash shops in general, were not meant for heterosexual gamers.
All the staff in my doctor’s office are of the LGBT community and gamers. I always bring a book on game development to read in the waiting room. So they all knew I was a gamer and independant developer, so they all asked me why it seems that cash shops target the LGBT.
I realize that not all games do this, or market to the LGBT exclusively. I also realize that 12 people don’t speak for the entire LGBT population.
Do you agree that P2W means anything that affects the KIller gamer playstyle? And Vanity means anything that has its effect to Killer gamer playstyle either minimized or removed? The result is cash shops are stocked with Non-Killer Gamer Items(NKGI) or only NKGI are felt to be acceptable for cash shop sale.
The follow up question to this thread, should be. How many times have you bought and XP boost in a cash shop and had a guild member say in chat. “What are you a non-heterosexual?” or something like that. Again I am not saying this happens 100% of the time and to 100% of the LGBT. But it does happen.Ethical behavior has everything to do with impressions. This is a statement often repeated in ethic training. My original post was meant to inform the readers of this thread of an impression that is growing in acceptance. You may believe that “Payment models have nothing to do with sexual orientation.” But there is an impression that it does.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I'm lost...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
How many times have me, my friends, anyone I know, have spoken with in or out of a game bought anything on a cs (boosts, equipment, clothing, pets, mounts, house…. Anything at all) and had someone call me out or made any mention whatsoever about being straight or gay?
Answer – none.
Do I think it happens? No. I do think that some people may be feeling more targeted, but that is their perception which is not reflective of reality.
The idea that only LGBT use vanity items, or use vanity items any more than other people is ludicous as is anything that thinks this. Vanity items are some of if not the biggest industry (if it was just one industry anyway) and largest expenditures of people in RL, why would a game be any different.
Do I think that P2W means anything that affects the Killer gameplay style?
No. Virtually all items are sold on cs now. Some with power, some without, boosts, bag space, mounts, abilities… all can affect the killer, explorer, social, achiever gameplay – all are called out and debated in this forum.
Your first line also had no merit or basis to it. You randomly spewed that to try and attack and when you look at the post above it, it just reads absolutely silly. Nice work there and no, absolutely no irony there.
What you just described is pure irresponsibility. Voting without the facts and info is a terrible thing to do. You can also buy a car without any research at all. You have a right to do that, but it is irresponsible as there may be all kinds of problems and safety issues with it. With that you are risking yourself and a few other people on the road. With voting you are risking an entire town/state/ or nation. The "I don't want to learn, have the proper knowledge, or do any research, but damn it I want to vote to make myself feel good!!" crowd is one of the worst to exist.
You can ruin a nation and destroy entire classes of people by voting because of the emotion that some lie instilled in you. You are actually describing what is wrong with the modern world. Thanks for making it so clear to everyone else.
In what respect, or to which item? BTW, the exterminator just came to the door here, so I will be back and forth
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Hypothetically given the criteria outlined in the OP.
Here is the way I would like to see a cash shop set up in a MMO. I write this not as a gamer, but from the standpoint of the developer. I would not add any lockbox or other items of chance to a cash shop as that promotes binge spending instead of sustainable income (would rather get $5/month from 90% of the player base instead of 90% of the $ from 5% of the player base).
- For the first 30 day/100hrs game play ... no in-game access to the cash shop, but you can access the cash shop via a web based store front . There will be no store pop-ups or advertising in game during this trial period. This lets the player get to know the game and the game to know the player.
- Cash shop will be tailored to the user after the trial period is over. Gamers who spend no money will see basic items from the different gamer types (killer, social, explorer, achievers, crafters).
- Items to be sold in the cash shop will be given user loyalty grades (basic, supporter, champion, ViP ...)
- Users will be given a loyalty grade based on how much $ has been spent with the company (this grade will/could carry across all titles if company produces more than one game). This user loyalty grade will be tied to the loyalty grades of the items displayed in the cash shop. Users with a higher loyalty grade will be shown items with higher loyalty grades.
- After the first month/100 hours of gameplay (or which ever comes first), the store icon will be added to a non-premium location of the UI. If the user has not spent any $ in the online web store they will also see a cash store pop-up. The pop-up will continue to display to users who have not spent money every 50 hours of gameplay. After one year of free play the pop-up will appear on every log in.
- The store should adjust itself to the user; a user that purchases more cosmetic stuff should see the cosmetic items first when entering the store. People with different loyalty levels will see different items in the store, and depending on their buying habits may see them in a different order.
- If the game offers a sub, then that user will be placed at the ViP level of loyalty for the length of time sub is active, and that money spent will add up so that after a year of subscription the user will always be a ViP even if they un-sub.
- I do not think that items should be sold directly to the user, but a quest chain (solo, group, raid, heroic raid) which rewards the item could be sold.
- Items purchased in the cash shop would be BoA, and could not be sold. This would ensure that only players who support the company have access to the benefits.
I think developers should reward the user who support the company, and they should do it in a way that does not punish the gamers who do not spend money on their games. It should work much like the Airlines Frequent Flyer miles or the ViP Perks at casinos. People who do not spend money should have access to the same game as those that do spend money. However, the people that spend money should have access to more in the game store.
You brought up politicians and their practicies, yet you have done the same in your very post what you condemn them for - irony. Thus logical assumption would be to ask if you are also a politician.
And you still continue with your agenda.
You admit that people have their right to be, as you put it - irresponsible, but you do not hesitate to remove the right off them.
Then, it is no wonder you consider democratic principles and human rights to be the bane of modern society since they are a real threat to authocratic system you promote.
I think mostly cosmetics , clothing and maybe some boosts of some sorts. What is horrifying to me is Rift's approach of selling the second from top raiding items , that's a no no to me , mind you I am an old school gamer at heart. Also after watching a recent Gamebreaker tv the republic show , two of the people would buy a maxed level character from the cash shop ( SWTOR ) and/or a certificate/pass to only do the class stories. What is that all about , the whole point ( to me of an MMO ) is the journey , achievement of getting somewhere in said MMO. So if they sell such items it defeats the whole purpose of actually playing the game. Mind you with WOW letting you have a level 85 character by only buying the next expansion is similar ( I know it's not a cash shop item but it's the same principle ) and is also an awful idea.
To conclude , it's best to not sell anything that is defined as P2W. Also if any of the above happen in an MMO I play I will just up and leave , sorry but this market is /has changed and I don't want this trend to continue , maybe the Subscription based MMO model has all but long gone , but for gods sake , let the players actually play the game and if they don't like the levelling experience then that's not their fault but the dev's.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
I went back and reread the posts several time.
I don't think he said anything you are reporting.
While an intelligent test is IMO extreme, the reasons he gave IMO are valid and I actually do agree with. So while I support and agree with the reason, the the conclusion and subsequent actions that should be taken I do not agree with.
I don't spend any money in or on shitty f2p, b2p or p2p.
Only good ones
+1
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Because if I'm already paying money for the game, I should have access to the game. There shouldn't be shop exclusive items.
Its a GAME not a STORE. I should be able to play the GAME to get the GAME reward.
You only rephrased what you stated before - that there should be no shop with exclusive items.
That still does not explain why not.
I see what you are saying, buying an unlock of 100 bag slots could affect a Killer gamer equally as an OP Epic Legendary Weapon. But I think the Epic Legendary weapon would be called P2W, more often and more loudly than the bag slots. Are you saying that since all items are sold on the cash shop now, all items are P2W?.
LoL. If you read DeathWolf2U's post, right after this one. It is a reiteration of my points from my original post
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
@lizardbones,
Well it's easy really, two things:
1. Reduce dramatically what items cost in the cash shop = more people will buy stuff which = company makes even more money because of the increase of people buying i.e. Neverwinter for example only here, charging $40 to $50 just for a mount is an insane amount which in turn not many people buy that item. Reduce the cost to a reasonable amount and more people buy. I mean a realistic cost not something stupid like even $20 for a mount.
2. Do not sell any items in the cash shop like potions, gear or whatever that gives a person and unfair advantage in PvP if that game has it. Hence Pay To Win where it really hurts. It's bad enough to compete with cheaters scripting in PvP let alone giving them even a bigger edge by buying items in the cash shop.
When these two things are responsibly addressed by the gaming companies they might find a more successful F2P model like Path of Exile for one.
1. I know because I played Neverwinter and only a handful of people actually bought the mounts and companions from the cash shop. That was also only one example I gave there are a ton of others but I think you and everyone else gets the point.
2. This makes absolutely no sense. I'm trying to figure out what your point is that you are trying to get across but I don't see it. I gave two reasons that give an unfair advantage in PvP and are very real. How you even begin to debate that is beyond me or you are one of the ones that thrive on the over advantage with the two methods I mentioned.
3. Again PoE was only one example there are more out there. I'm starting to think you are just looking to argue with anything that someone says which proves it by you attempting to debate me which failed.