This is my opinion, not fact and I do not really mind if anyone else does not follow it.
Why post it here then ? If you are not playing just move on.
Well the simple answer is that this forum both for positive and negative for everyone who had or has an interest in this game be it to love or hate.
I know the company that is doing the game is a different company than the one that does Skyrim etc but this is an Elder scrolls game and just be held up to the past and history of these games.
Having been immersed in the lore and game play of the series since the original game which I have fond memories of my wife watching me play and Daggerfall with its shops and huge world single handed started my wife's gaming addiction.
My Morrowind save has over 2400 hours on it, Oblivion 1100 and as of this morning my Skyrim game is just nudging 604 hours.
So as a fan of the series and player of the games I am heavily invested in those titles, I spent a few hours last night with some not too accurate stats and realized that It would take me over 17 years of constant play to get through all the mod content on nexus and steam for skyrim alone.
March 2006 Oblivion came out and 7 years later if you use the latest meshes and enhancements it looks better than ESO, Skyrim with a decent pc you came make absolutely breath taking even morrowind is being shoe horned into the skyrim engine.
Bethesda makes good games but it is the tools and open ended architecture that cause it to surpass the lifetime of most other fantasy games.
At the same time I have played mmo's since muds and meridian 59 nearly every online title out there, currently I spend time in TSW, STO and Eve online.
My hope for ESO was a co-operative version of skyrim 4-8-16 players server mechanics like a modable minecraft server that people could come play in your world and adventure with you, open to all skyrim content available both original as well as nexus and steam the only limit being what the server owner decided would be on there.
Maybe I am the only one who wanted that I don't know but thinking about the elder scrolls as a genre in its own right and knowing that no development team in the world will be able to create and give content at the level of the mod people can I realize at best ESO will be a RvRvR competent mmo with ES lore and skin.
It just isn't for me, hell I will probably still be able to play skyrim in 7 years and will be amazed if ESO is still around then.
Just came to the conclusion that I do not need the ESO that is being created for us.
I do not hate it, sad at a lost chance to make something pretty unique after all imagine a co-op version or skyrim with access to all the mods available from quests to houses from races to item 17+ years of content for you and friends to play through.
I have hopes for wildstar and other mmo games but ESO is just stepping into a realm where it can never fill the world people have been playing in for 10 years already.
then dont play, I feel sorry for you and you will miss out on a great game.
This is my opinion, not fact and I do not really mind if anyone else does not follow it.
Why post it here then ? If you are not playing just move on.
Well the simple answer is that this forum both for positive and negative for everyone who had or has an interest in this game be it to love or hate.
I know the company that is doing the game is a different company than the one that does Skyrim etc but this is an Elder scrolls game and just be held up to the past and history of these games.
Having been immersed in the lore and game play of the series since the original game which I have fond memories of my wife watching me play and Daggerfall with its shops and huge world single handed started my wife's gaming addiction.
My Morrowind save has over 2400 hours on it, Oblivion 1100 and as of this morning my Skyrim game is just nudging 604 hours.
So as a fan of the series and player of the games I am heavily invested in those titles, I spent a few hours last night with some not too accurate stats and realized that It would take me over 17 years of constant play to get through all the mod content on nexus and steam for skyrim alone.
March 2006 Oblivion came out and 7 years later if you use the latest meshes and enhancements it looks better than ESO, Skyrim with a decent pc you came make absolutely breath taking even morrowind is being shoe horned into the skyrim engine.
Bethesda makes good games but it is the tools and open ended architecture that cause it to surpass the lifetime of most other fantasy games.
At the same time I have played mmo's since muds and meridian 59 nearly every online title out there, currently I spend time in TSW, STO and Eve online.
My hope for ESO was a co-operative version of skyrim 4-8-16 players server mechanics like a modable minecraft server that people could come play in your world and adventure with you, open to all skyrim content available both original as well as nexus and steam the only limit being what the server owner decided would be on there.
Maybe I am the only one who wanted that I don't know but thinking about the elder scrolls as a genre in its own right and knowing that no development team in the world will be able to create and give content at the level of the mod people can I realize at best ESO will be a RvRvR competent mmo with ES lore and skin.
It just isn't for me, hell I will probably still be able to play skyrim in 7 years and will be amazed if ESO is still around then.
Just came to the conclusion that I do not need the ESO that is being created for us.
I do not hate it, sad at a lost chance to make something pretty unique after all imagine a co-op version or skyrim with access to all the mods available from quests to houses from races to item 17+ years of content for you and friends to play through.
I have hopes for wildstar and other mmo games but ESO is just stepping into a realm where it can never fill the world people have been playing in for 10 years already.
then dont play, I feel sorry for you and you will miss out on a great game.
Originally posted by Iselin The basic mistake that you and many others here make is to think that declining player numbers after the first 3 months for an MMO reflects badly on the game.
It's just a fact of life on the MMO business. There are way too many current and new MMOs for players to stick around any of them for very long.
It's the way we are, not the way they are. Those who stick around for a long time are the anomaly.
So... Predicting that the population of any MMO will decrease over time is about as useful as predicting that the sun will rise tomorrow.
And pointing out similarities to other MMOs and using that as the basis for your prediction is about as useful as saying that the reason the sun will rise tomorrow is because it's Friday.
FF, ESO, Wildstar, Archeage, whatever... will all go through the same player retention drop. Just because that's the way it works these days.
Thats where YOURE wrong, EVERYONE is looking for a DESTINATION game. One where they can play and STAY for an extended time. While there are a lot of good and free MMOs out there theyre all lacking if they werent they would be the ga,e most people would be playing. So if a game starts out with a few million people and offers enough of everything to appeal to everyone then what would that do?
Player retention statistics for any game in the last 10 years not named WOW would beg to differ. It just does not happen any more AND the reason it doesn't happen is because there are so many choices and a constant stream of new ones with interesting twists on some core MMO aspect.
It's a fantasy to think it will happen again and it's madness to think that you know the magic formula that will prevent people from wanting to check out new and different things.
Even WOW itself has very few constant 10-year vets. People leave it for other things and come back all the time. Blizzard just happened to have cashed in by being the easiest, most popular MMO to pick-up and play at the time when MMOs hit the mainstream. Even today, go up to anyone who doesn't play MMOs and tell them that you do... 99% of them will say "What, like WOW?"
Even if the majority of MMO players are saying that they're looking for a destination game (and even that is not the case) what they actually do with their gaming time and money shows clearly that this isn't so.
Youre still missing the point. People BUY the games, it doesnt take much to think they will STAY in those game (that they paid for) if they were worth playing for any extended period of time.
There havent been a lot of serious efforts since WOW came out.
Warhammer, AOC, Swotor, and maybe RIFT. Thats about it. Warhammer and AOC were both released severely lacking in content. So in reality they werent really a serious effort, but because they happened so long ago and before it has become common place for games to continue to 'fail they have to be taken a little more seriously.
SWOTOR was the major game that is both recent. had the hype and the IP and what peopel thought they wanted. It lasted less than a year before it went F2P. A lot of people still play t so F2P helped it, apparently.
Rift did the 'best' they stayed sub longer than most because they followed the basic rules, problem is they also cloned WoW a little too much.
But is now a whole new era and a new generation of MMOs should be showing up. ESO isnt that. But it should be. It should be implementing what EQ next is promising, and then some.
To think that a game that offers the 'toal' package wont e able to hold the playerbase is naive.
WoW did it when they changed the genre in 2004. Contrary to popular belief WoW wasnt the first MMO, it wasnt even 'the best' even when it was released, but it offered so much of everything that it became a game people would stick with. So you dont have to do too much beyond what other games offer, you just have to offer a complete package. Population generate more population. The aforementioned games or at least AOC and Rift are 'better' thatn they were at release. Hell you might even be able to put vanguard into that. But the problem is the window of opportunity has long passed. Not many games get people back even after they go F2P as they do at release. Even if they improve significantly. Mostly because peopel like to play with other people.
ESO is going to reduce that somewhat with a single server, but phasing will also effect it in some fashion. But at 'end' game I suppose everyone will be on the same 'plane'.
The fact that MILLIONS of people still fork out record breaking prices for every new MMO that comes down the pike shows that theyre still looking for one that they can play and stick with.
Trust me the next game that does enough for enough people will dominate the landscape.
The fact that MILLIONS of people still fork out record breaking prices for every new MMO that comes down the pike shows that theyre still looking for one that they can play and stick with.
Or b) it could just mean that people enjoy playing these games...despite all their lengthy negative dissections in forums
I'm sticking to b...
PS... look, there is nothing wrong with wishing that an MMO comes along that is so compelling that we never want to play anything else - we all wish that - it's just not likely to ever happen again with all the forces pulling us away now compared to 10 years ago.
You are bound to be very unhappy and constantly frustrated if you forever evaluate games on the basis of whether they retained millions or not.
Even the "failures" you mentioned all had their day and I played every one of them for an average of 6 months or so... I actually do stick around longer than most... but most others don't. We have derogatory names for them like "content locust" and other stuff... what they really are is the typical 2013 MMO gamer... they ride in on the wave and then thy go catch a new one
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The fact that MILLIONS of people still fork out record breaking prices for every new MMO that comes down the pike shows that theyre still looking for one that they can play and stick with.
Or b) it could just mean that people enjoy playing these games...despite all their lengthy negative dissections in forums
I'm sticking to b...
PS... look, there is nothing wrong with wishing that an MMO comes along that is so compelling that we never want to play anything else - we all wish that - it's just not likely to ever happen again with all the forces pulling us away now compared to 10 years ago.
You are bound to be very unhappy and constantly frustrated if you forever evaluate games on the basis of whether they retained millions or not.
Even the "failures" you mentioned all had their day and I played every one of them for an average of 6 months or so... I actually do stick around longer than most... but most others don't. We have derogatory names for them like "content locust" and other stuff... what they really are is the typical 2013 MMO gamer... they ride in on the wave and then thy go catch a new one
Yep.
No different in the past either. Average retention for EQ1, according to SoE on its 5th (I think) anniversary was only 7 months. And WoW's subs must be a mix of new, old and returning - it has carried on selling so people must leave. Rift probably did as well as it did because it started with a lower sub and went lower.
A 4, 5 or even 6 month sub is only going to bring in between $45 and $75 - allowing for the 30 days included. And box sales will be impacted. Rather than shooting for Skyrim sales numbers you are going to be shooting for SWTOR box sales. Without the sub they can charge for new content - and if they feel the need to include a "service charge" to cover network costs do that as well. (A small charge to prevent any significant impact on box sales with the first 6 or 12 months included).
My hope for ESO was a co-operative version of skyrim 4-8-16 players server mechanics like a modable minecraft server that people could come play in your world and adventure with you, open to all skyrim content available both original as well as nexus and steam the only limit being what the server owner decided would be on there.
Everyone on here is welcome to express their opinion, its what forums are for. Although co-operative Skyrim has been available for quite some time now through the use of mods. There really is no need for an official version to be released.
however I could forgive all this if the combat were half way decent. It's nothing like the single player games. Hits don't have that impact or weight to them. Western MMO devs seriously need to work on their live action combat. The korean game devs definitely know what their doing when it comes to action combat and character movement and impact etc.
ESO also seems to fall under the annoying aspect that 995 of MMOs like to have. Everyone in the game is basically the same person. You all wake up in the same place and jsut take different paths depending on the faction. Why can't start as a regular person and do my own thing and make my own story? I could go on, but it's the same old story. ESO is just another generic MMO with terrible combat.
Comments
then dont play, I feel sorry for you and you will miss out on a great game.
lol pretty much this^^^
I will give it a shot until it isn't fun anymore.
Youre still missing the point. People BUY the games, it doesnt take much to think they will STAY in those game (that they paid for) if they were worth playing for any extended period of time.
There havent been a lot of serious efforts since WOW came out.
Warhammer, AOC, Swotor, and maybe RIFT. Thats about it. Warhammer and AOC were both released severely lacking in content. So in reality they werent really a serious effort, but because they happened so long ago and before it has become common place for games to continue to 'fail they have to be taken a little more seriously.
SWOTOR was the major game that is both recent. had the hype and the IP and what peopel thought they wanted. It lasted less than a year before it went F2P. A lot of people still play t so F2P helped it, apparently.
Rift did the 'best' they stayed sub longer than most because they followed the basic rules, problem is they also cloned WoW a little too much.
But is now a whole new era and a new generation of MMOs should be showing up. ESO isnt that. But it should be. It should be implementing what EQ next is promising, and then some.
To think that a game that offers the 'toal' package wont e able to hold the playerbase is naive.
WoW did it when they changed the genre in 2004. Contrary to popular belief WoW wasnt the first MMO, it wasnt even 'the best' even when it was released, but it offered so much of everything that it became a game people would stick with. So you dont have to do too much beyond what other games offer, you just have to offer a complete package. Population generate more population. The aforementioned games or at least AOC and Rift are 'better' thatn they were at release. Hell you might even be able to put vanguard into that. But the problem is the window of opportunity has long passed. Not many games get people back even after they go F2P as they do at release. Even if they improve significantly. Mostly because peopel like to play with other people.
ESO is going to reduce that somewhat with a single server, but phasing will also effect it in some fashion. But at 'end' game I suppose everyone will be on the same 'plane'.
The fact that MILLIONS of people still fork out record breaking prices for every new MMO that comes down the pike shows that theyre still looking for one that they can play and stick with.
Trust me the next game that does enough for enough people will dominate the landscape.
Or b) it could just mean that people enjoy playing these games...despite all their lengthy negative dissections in forums
I'm sticking to b...
PS... look, there is nothing wrong with wishing that an MMO comes along that is so compelling that we never want to play anything else - we all wish that - it's just not likely to ever happen again with all the forces pulling us away now compared to 10 years ago.
You are bound to be very unhappy and constantly frustrated if you forever evaluate games on the basis of whether they retained millions or not.
Even the "failures" you mentioned all had their day and I played every one of them for an average of 6 months or so... I actually do stick around longer than most... but most others don't. We have derogatory names for them like "content locust" and other stuff... what they really are is the typical 2013 MMO gamer... they ride in on the wave and then thy go catch a new one
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Yep.
No different in the past either. Average retention for EQ1, according to SoE on its 5th (I think) anniversary was only 7 months. And WoW's subs must be a mix of new, old and returning - it has carried on selling so people must leave. Rift probably did as well as it did because it started with a lower sub and went lower.
A 4, 5 or even 6 month sub is only going to bring in between $45 and $75 - allowing for the 30 days included. And box sales will be impacted. Rather than shooting for Skyrim sales numbers you are going to be shooting for SWTOR box sales. Without the sub they can charge for new content - and if they feel the need to include a "service charge" to cover network costs do that as well. (A small charge to prevent any significant impact on box sales with the first 6 or 12 months included).
Ah no. I want a real, working, official coop TES.
I agree with OP.
however I could forgive all this if the combat were half way decent. It's nothing like the single player games. Hits don't have that impact or weight to them. Western MMO devs seriously need to work on their live action combat. The korean game devs definitely know what their doing when it comes to action combat and character movement and impact etc.
ESO also seems to fall under the annoying aspect that 995 of MMOs like to have. Everyone in the game is basically the same person. You all wake up in the same place and jsut take different paths depending on the faction. Why can't start as a regular person and do my own thing and make my own story? I could go on, but it's the same old story. ESO is just another generic MMO with terrible combat.