You missed the option for Both or Either or Don't Care About the Cost. It's about the game. If I love the game, I'll sub even if it's F2P to support the developer.
Originally posted by Boneserino Give me a sub game with worthwhile content that makes me want to play continuously and I will happily spend my money. But I think many of us here can agree, that just isn't going to be likely to happen in the near future. I am keen to see how Wildstar does because it seems there is a lot of interest in the game and they plan on a sub payment model.
This right here is the real kicker. MMOs today just are not worth a sub of any kind, in my opinion. Like you mentioned (but I cut it out for brevity), give me a game where I can not wait to log in and I will happily pay a sub. They just do not make these MMOs anymore, in my opinion.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Everyone paying the same, everything in game earned in game, not with cash. Everyone on a level playing field where how well and how much you play dictates your success, not how much you're willing to pay. Everyone paying - and thus hopefully more serious.
F2P is a crap model for MMORPGs. It leads to sleazy content, sleazy and lower quality players, cheating (paying to win is effectively cheating), and more garbage.
Make games worth a sub. Make focused games. Don't expect to get millions of subscribers and don't water down your games to get millions of box sales just to have most players gone when they're done with your glorified single player game.
MMORPGs of old, many of which are still going and still sub-based, were more challenging games with more hardcore gameplay and more emphasis on grouping - you know, what MMORPGs are all about. So little wonder that when games are designed in an entirely different way and labeled as MMORPGs that they fail to fully deliver the real MMORPG experience. A bunch of soloists sharing chat isn't an MMORPG.
Single player games aren't worth a sub, which is why most MMORPGs after the classics (and with crappy solo-first designs) haven't been able to stay sub-based.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
There are no pure subscription models anymore. At best you get sub + cash shop, such as WoW.
For me, I prefer B2P+Cash Shop such as GW2. The devs get enough money up front so that they don't have to cripple your gaming experience from the get-go.
^^ What he said.
I prefer B2P and cash shop for vanity items and new content (with a sub option for those who prefer sub).
Originally posted by cura When and IF somebody makes a game worth a sub, im all for it. Untill then FTP. Other thing is, they could lower standard sub price to make it more worthy paying. In my country i pay less then $10 for SWTORs sub and its adequate enough for me to pay for couple of months every now and then.
You make it sound like $14.99 a month is some outrageous price! My God I spend more than that a month on chewing gum and mid day snacks! (of which both I could do without)
Sub. Without question. Here's a non-exhaustive list of "why'.
In my view, game developers approach "free" and "sub" games different. In a sub game, devs are looking to make a game that continues to roll subs from month to month. They have a pretty good gauge of incoming and outgoing players and can adjust accordingly.
In a free game, the devs are looking to make a game that encourages people to open up their wallets and spend money willy-nilly for everything from weapon skins to XP potions, renaming tokens, new hairstyles, races, toolbars, and anything else.
Just how I see it.
Another reason: keeps out the riff-raff. Simple as that.
Subscriptions aren't going to exist very much longer, just like paying by the hour was phased out when the rest of the industry started to go B2P and pay per month.
The sub fee is there because it used to cost a lot to run a MMORPG but that isn't the case anymore. The market will be 95% B2P and F2P in just a couple of years, heck it is almost there now. The only sub games that will survive are the absolutely biggest games like WoW and games that are extremely high quality but offer something unique (I guess Eve is an example). Those games will also have cash shops though which are just part of the genre now.
The idea that sub fee means higher quality game is absurd and I think we have proven it isn't true by all the failed sub games released in the past 5 years.
Originally posted by cura When and IF somebody makes a game worth a sub, im all for it. Untill then FTP. Other thing is, they could lower standard sub price to make it more worthy paying. In my country i pay less then $10 for SWTORs sub and its adequate enough for me to pay for couple of months every now and then.
You make it sound like $14.99 a month is some outrageous price! My God I spend more than that a month on chewing gum and mid day snacks! (of which both I could do without)
So what? Im not against sub becouse i dont have money for it. Im fighting against crap games with my wallet. If its not worth it im not gonna support it.
This ^^^
Misguided people think that it is about affordability. It is not. It is about competition. If i can get the same fun for less, why would i pay even $1? And everyone has different priority for money
I spent $1400 for a meal for 4 around xmas. I spent $40 each on bottles of sweet wine. However, I won't spend $15 a month on any MMOs. That tells you about a) my priorities, and b) the competition in MMOs.
Originally posted by cura When and IF somebody makes a game worth a sub, im all for it. Untill then FTP. Other thing is, they could lower standard sub price to make it more worthy paying. In my country i pay less then $10 for SWTORs sub and its adequate enough for me to pay for couple of months every now and then.
You make it sound like $14.99 a month is some outrageous price! My God I spend more than that a month on chewing gum and mid day snacks! (of which both I could do without)
So what? Im not against sub becouse i dont have money for it. Im fighting against crap games with my wallet. If its not worth it im not gonna support it.
This ^^^
Misguided people think that it is about affordability. It is not. It is about competition. If i can get the same fun for less, why would i pay even $1? And everyone has different priority for money
I spent $1400 for a meal for 4 around xmas. I spent $40 each on bottles of sweet wine. However, I won't spend $15 a month on any MMOs. That tells you about a) my priorities, and b) the competition in MMOs.
Yeah .... "priorities". Crazy spending $1400 on a meal for 4 for anything!!!!!
BUT back to the original quote I used. The poster was complaining about the cost... NOT about the value. I replied to his complaint. If a game is not worth the sub. I won't pay it either, but I still rather have a sub. over F2P. My point is completely valid.
Originally posted by Superman0X My personal favorite is pay by the minute. This is the single most fair way to do a pay to play game.This way, people who want to play 100 hours a week, can do so, and will support the game. Those of us that only have an hour to two a week, can pay for the time we spend.
MMORPGs started out this way. Players sometimes wracked up monthly bills of hundreds of dollars with this system. I do not wish to "watch the clock" as I am playing, though.
I agree that players that do not have the time to play should not pay as much. Would a compromise work? Maybe the option to pay the minute (or hour or week) or a flat rate monthly fee?
Compromises do work. Asian markets, centered around internet cafes use hourly payment cycles. But an hour will cost more than 2 cents like it does now, so if you play a lot you'll end up paying much more.
It is only fair that those who play more hours, pay more (same rate per hour). The use of prepaid cards (or account balance) for this would be fine. $20 might get you 40 hours (for example), and this might last me for a year, but might only last others a week. I find this very equitable, and would allow everyone to log in and enjoy a game as they desire.
Originally posted by cura When and IF somebody makes a game worth a sub, im all for it. Untill then FTP. Other thing is, they could lower standard sub price to make it more worthy paying. In my country i pay less then $10 for SWTORs sub and its adequate enough for me to pay for couple of months every now and then.
You make it sound like $14.99 a month is some outrageous price! My God I spend more than that a month on chewing gum and mid day snacks! (of which both I could do without)
So what? Im not against sub becouse i dont have money for it. Im fighting against crap games with my wallet. If its not worth it im not gonna support it.
This ^^^
Misguided people think that it is about affordability. It is not. It is about competition. If i can get the same fun for less, why would i pay even $1? And everyone has different priority for money
I spent $1400 for a meal for 4 around xmas. I spent $40 each on bottles of sweet wine. However, I won't spend $15 a month on any MMOs. That tells you about a) my priorities, and b) the competition in MMOs.
You spent $1400 on a meal but then bought some Janky $40 wine?
2. Sub - Cosmetic only cash shop (no potions etc..)
3. f2p - Sub that can totally negate cash shop
4. f2p - With a capped cash shop (never will happen).
5. b2p - no cash shop
6. b2p - cosmetic only cash shop (no potions etc...)
I have b2p under f2p, because I do not think devs can make a b2p, and fund a mmo without a intrusive cash shop that sells potions and other things that are not cosmetic.
I'm tired of people being tired of people that don't say what they want to hear. Deal with it or go in the closet and shut the door.
George Carlin was mostly right, only it isn't just America being ****ified, its the world.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
2. Sub - Cosmetic only cash shop (no potions etc..)
3. f2p - Sub that can totally negate cash shop
4. f2p - With a capped cash shop (never will happen).
5. b2p - no cash shop
6. b2p - cosmetic only cash shop (no potions etc...)
I'm surprised more people don't want this. So many games offer "the whole world" in free to play, a box price really seems like a scam when you're going to be charging for so much more every month.
SoE has a few of their games set up this way and I always felt like it was the best deal for the player.
You spent $1400 on a meal but then bought some Janky $40 wine?
Thats criminal, my friend.
Not at all. FIrst, that is not the wine we drank at the meal. Second, wine is very personal. The bottle in question is a sweet Beringer 2007 Nightingale, which i find i like very much.
To expand on the point, wine is not just more expensive = better. For example, i like Domaine Carneros Pinot Noir very much. However, the 2010 clonal series 405 is much more floral, silky, without spice nor tanin, compared to the Famous Gate of the same year. The clonal 405 is $50 (i bought it a couple years ago, so it may be off by $5 either way) and the Famous Gate is $75, and i prefer the clonal 405 by far. BTW, the clonal 405 was also a winery special, and so if you factor the trip to the winery, it is a bit more expensive.
Also note that the meal was a tasting menu, and we prefer to focus on experience the art of culinary creation, as opposed to wine tasting.
Subscriptions aren't going to exist very much longer, just like paying by the hour was phased out when the rest of the industry started to go B2P and pay per month.
The sub fee is there because it used to cost a lot to run a MMORPG but that isn't the case anymore. The market will be 95% B2P and F2P in just a couple of years, heck it is almost there now. The only sub games that will survive are the absolutely biggest games like WoW and games that are extremely high quality but offer something unique (I guess Eve is an example). Those games will also have cash shops though which are just part of the genre now.
The idea that sub fee means higher quality game is absurd and I think we have proven it isn't true by all the failed sub games released in the past 5 years.
The only thing proven by the low quality of sub games that have failed is that MAKING GARBAGE GAMES won't bring in good money. That is all.
Fake "free" to play games are all about nickel and diming. I do not want to be reminded of money when immersed in a world.
Stop making wow clones with tiny, bordered zones, with an ability to jump one inch, where you can reach max level within a month, just to grind 5 dungeons over and over. No one wants to pay a sub or pay ANYTHING for that crap any more.
Subscriptions aren't going to exist very much longer, just like paying by the hour was phased out when the rest of the industry started to go B2P and pay per month.
The sub fee is there because it used to cost a lot to run a MMORPG but that isn't the case anymore. The market will be 95% B2P and F2P in just a couple of years, heck it is almost there now. The only sub games that will survive are the absolutely biggest games like WoW and games that are extremely high quality but offer something unique (I guess Eve is an example). Those games will also have cash shops though which are just part of the genre now.
The idea that sub fee means higher quality game is absurd and I think we have proven it isn't true by all the failed sub games released in the past 5 years.
The only thing proven by the low quality of sub games that have failed is that MAKING GARBAGE GAMES won't bring in good money. That is all.
Fake "free" to play games are all about nickel and diming. I do not want to be reminded of money when immersed in a world.
Stop making wow clones with tiny, bordered zones, with an ability to jump one inch, where you can reach max level within a month, just to grind 5 dungeons over and over. No one wants to pay a sub or pay ANYTHING for that crap any more.
Regardless of what people say on this site those games make money...and lots of it. How they make money seems to have more to do with the posters own bias than anything else...but people are paying.
Regardless of what people say on this site those games make money...and lots of it. How they make money seems to have more to do with the posters own bias than anything else...but people are paying.
*Some* people are paying and whales are paying a lot. And also most are not paying.
I like free to play games because there are certain major advantages. Such as not paying until it is truly something that will benefit your character. Or that free play games tend to have stronger economies because low level free players bring in the bulk of raw mats and common items to the market (making them so abundant, and bought/sold so frequently that the lowest level things tend to have very stable prices that allows for stability at higher levels). Also with free-to-play that has a fair system of micro-transactions I can pick my content.
For instance I play runescape which is a free-to-play with subscription option. But, I subscribe to the membership (for simplicities sake I buy mine a year at a time). Yet, on top of that I still make micro-transactions. I also play World of tanks which has the same basic payment model. I don't play it frequently enough to subscribe, but I have bought a premium tank from them. It's nice to pick the pace of pay. Between these two games I have spent probably around $500 in the last two years (which isn't bad at all considering I dropped over $1400 in 2 years of playing Aika Online...and I won't even say the kind of money spent/made on second life).
The major point here being, that I enjoyed every dollar I have spent on free-to-plays. And I think it's largely because I get to choose how much I pay, when i pay it, and what I get for my money.
Subscription.
There generally seems to be a higher level of quality with subscription games, and a lot more guarantees. While I do enjoy these. I don't like the trials. I never feel like I get enough preview of what the game is actually like on a trial account. I often end up subscribing for a short time and then upon discovering that it simply isn't holding my interest, stop the subscription and stop playing. I don't feel like I wasted money. If I had fun it's all good. But, I do think as to what I could have spent that same money on in a game I know I already enjoy.
Subscriptions have more exclusivity and this is nice... I just often simply don't enjoy them as much. For instance I spent $70-ish dollars on EVE online within the last 2 months. And, I am finding now that the game simply fails to hold my attention. And, I probably won't renew my subscription next month. It would have been nice to know that before I dropped money on it. But, sub-games simply don't seem to give me that option. I feel like I have to spend money to find out if I am actually going to enjoy it or not.
Originally posted by Xthos 1. Sub - without cash shop 2. Sub - Cosmetic only cash shop (no potions etc..) 3. f2p - Sub that can totally negate cash shop 4. f2p - With a capped cash shop (never will happen). 5. b2p - no cash shop 6. b2p - cosmetic only cash shop (no potions etc...)
I'm surprised more people don't want this. So many games offer "the whole world" in free to play, a box price really seems like a scam when you're going to be charging for so much more every month. SoE has a few of their games set up this way and I always felt like it was the best deal for the player.
From what I've seen of this type of model, when you pay a sub, the cash shop does not go away. It is still there, selling off pieces of the game. What the sub gets you is a monthly allowance to spend IN THE CASH SHOP.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by cura When and IF somebody makes a game worth a sub, im all for it. Untill then FTP. Other thing is, they could lower standard sub price to make it more worthy paying. In my country i pay less then $10 for SWTORs sub and its adequate enough for me to pay for couple of months every now and then.
The thing is, I don't care what it costs if it's a truly great game. There just aren't any truly great games and the communities in every single game suck, therefore I cannot imagine any game worth paying a sub for, or even worth playing for free. Money isn't the issue, having a fun time is. If I'm not having fun, and I don't in modern MMOs anymore, then I just don't do it at all, regardless of how expensive or cheap it is.
Originally posted by cura When and IF somebody makes a game worth a sub, im all for it. Untill then FTP. Other thing is, they could lower standard sub price to make it more worthy paying. In my country i pay less then $10 for SWTORs sub and its adequate enough for me to pay for couple of months every now and then.
The thing is, I don't care what it costs if it's a truly great game. There just aren't any truly great games and the communities in every single game suck, therefore I cannot imagine any game worth paying a sub for, or even worth playing for free. Money isn't the issue, having a fun time is. If I'm not having fun, and I don't in modern MMOs anymore, then I just don't do it at all, regardless of how expensive or cheap it is.
Well, there are plenty of great SP games, or MMOs that are good enough SP games. Forget about community. Strangers are not dependable for fun in a video game. There are plenty of other ways that i enjoy.
Comments
You missed the option for Both or Either or Don't Care About the Cost. It's about the game. If I love the game, I'll sub even if it's F2P to support the developer.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Sub.
Everyone paying the same, everything in game earned in game, not with cash. Everyone on a level playing field where how well and how much you play dictates your success, not how much you're willing to pay. Everyone paying - and thus hopefully more serious.
F2P is a crap model for MMORPGs. It leads to sleazy content, sleazy and lower quality players, cheating (paying to win is effectively cheating), and more garbage.
Make games worth a sub. Make focused games. Don't expect to get millions of subscribers and don't water down your games to get millions of box sales just to have most players gone when they're done with your glorified single player game.
MMORPGs of old, many of which are still going and still sub-based, were more challenging games with more hardcore gameplay and more emphasis on grouping - you know, what MMORPGs are all about. So little wonder that when games are designed in an entirely different way and labeled as MMORPGs that they fail to fully deliver the real MMORPG experience. A bunch of soloists sharing chat isn't an MMORPG.
Single player games aren't worth a sub, which is why most MMORPGs after the classics (and with crappy solo-first designs) haven't been able to stay sub-based.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
^^ What he said.
I prefer B2P and cash shop for vanity items and new content (with a sub option for those who prefer sub).
You make it sound like $14.99 a month is some outrageous price! My God I spend more than that a month on chewing gum and mid day snacks! (of which both I could do without)
Sub. Without question. Here's a non-exhaustive list of "why'.
In my view, game developers approach "free" and "sub" games different. In a sub game, devs are looking to make a game that continues to roll subs from month to month. They have a pretty good gauge of incoming and outgoing players and can adjust accordingly.
In a free game, the devs are looking to make a game that encourages people to open up their wallets and spend money willy-nilly for everything from weapon skins to XP potions, renaming tokens, new hairstyles, races, toolbars, and anything else.
Just how I see it.
Another reason: keeps out the riff-raff. Simple as that.
Subscriptions aren't going to exist very much longer, just like paying by the hour was phased out when the rest of the industry started to go B2P and pay per month.
The sub fee is there because it used to cost a lot to run a MMORPG but that isn't the case anymore. The market will be 95% B2P and F2P in just a couple of years, heck it is almost there now. The only sub games that will survive are the absolutely biggest games like WoW and games that are extremely high quality but offer something unique (I guess Eve is an example). Those games will also have cash shops though which are just part of the genre now.
The idea that sub fee means higher quality game is absurd and I think we have proven it isn't true by all the failed sub games released in the past 5 years.
This ^^^
Misguided people think that it is about affordability. It is not. It is about competition. If i can get the same fun for less, why would i pay even $1? And everyone has different priority for money
I spent $1400 for a meal for 4 around xmas. I spent $40 each on bottles of sweet wine. However, I won't spend $15 a month on any MMOs. That tells you about a) my priorities, and b) the competition in MMOs.
Yeah .... "priorities". Crazy spending $1400 on a meal for 4 for anything!!!!!
BUT back to the original quote I used. The poster was complaining about the cost... NOT about the value. I replied to his complaint. If a game is not worth the sub. I won't pay it either, but I still rather have a sub. over F2P. My point is completely valid.
It is only fair that those who play more hours, pay more (same rate per hour). The use of prepaid cards (or account balance) for this would be fine. $20 might get you 40 hours (for example), and this might last me for a year, but might only last others a week. I find this very equitable, and would allow everyone to log in and enjoy a game as they desire.
You spent $1400 on a meal but then bought some Janky $40 wine?
Thats criminal, my friend.
neither option
personal preference is a buy to play payment, like almost every non-mmo game out there
1. Sub - without cash shop
2. Sub - Cosmetic only cash shop (no potions etc..)
3. f2p - Sub that can totally negate cash shop
4. f2p - With a capped cash shop (never will happen).
5. b2p - no cash shop
6. b2p - cosmetic only cash shop (no potions etc...)
I have b2p under f2p, because I do not think devs can make a b2p, and fund a mmo without a intrusive cash shop that sells potions and other things that are not cosmetic.
I'm tired of people being tired of people that don't say what they want to hear. Deal with it or go in the closet and shut the door.
George Carlin was mostly right, only it isn't just America being ****ified, its the world.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I'm surprised more people don't want this. So many games offer "the whole world" in free to play, a box price really seems like a scam when you're going to be charging for so much more every month.
SoE has a few of their games set up this way and I always felt like it was the best deal for the player.
Not at all. FIrst, that is not the wine we drank at the meal. Second, wine is very personal. The bottle in question is a sweet Beringer 2007 Nightingale, which i find i like very much.
To expand on the point, wine is not just more expensive = better. For example, i like Domaine Carneros Pinot Noir very much. However, the 2010 clonal series 405 is much more floral, silky, without spice nor tanin, compared to the Famous Gate of the same year. The clonal 405 is $50 (i bought it a couple years ago, so it may be off by $5 either way) and the Famous Gate is $75, and i prefer the clonal 405 by far. BTW, the clonal 405 was also a winery special, and so if you factor the trip to the winery, it is a bit more expensive.
Also note that the meal was a tasting menu, and we prefer to focus on experience the art of culinary creation, as opposed to wine tasting.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
The only thing proven by the low quality of sub games that have failed is that MAKING GARBAGE GAMES won't bring in good money. That is all.
Fake "free" to play games are all about nickel and diming. I do not want to be reminded of money when immersed in a world.
Stop making wow clones with tiny, bordered zones, with an ability to jump one inch, where you can reach max level within a month, just to grind 5 dungeons over and over. No one wants to pay a sub or pay ANYTHING for that crap any more.
Not many are paying much for MMOs anymore anyway .. except may be the whales.
Regardless of what people say on this site those games make money...and lots of it. How they make money seems to have more to do with the posters own bias than anything else...but people are paying.
*Some* people are paying and whales are paying a lot. And also most are not paying.
I am on the side of being for Free to play.
Free-to-Play
I like free to play games because there are certain major advantages. Such as not paying until it is truly something that will benefit your character. Or that free play games tend to have stronger economies because low level free players bring in the bulk of raw mats and common items to the market (making them so abundant, and bought/sold so frequently that the lowest level things tend to have very stable prices that allows for stability at higher levels). Also with free-to-play that has a fair system of micro-transactions I can pick my content.
For instance I play runescape which is a free-to-play with subscription option. But, I subscribe to the membership (for simplicities sake I buy mine a year at a time). Yet, on top of that I still make micro-transactions. I also play World of tanks which has the same basic payment model. I don't play it frequently enough to subscribe, but I have bought a premium tank from them. It's nice to pick the pace of pay. Between these two games I have spent probably around $500 in the last two years (which isn't bad at all considering I dropped over $1400 in 2 years of playing Aika Online...and I won't even say the kind of money spent/made on second life).
The major point here being, that I enjoyed every dollar I have spent on free-to-plays. And I think it's largely because I get to choose how much I pay, when i pay it, and what I get for my money.
Subscription.
There generally seems to be a higher level of quality with subscription games, and a lot more guarantees. While I do enjoy these. I don't like the trials. I never feel like I get enough preview of what the game is actually like on a trial account. I often end up subscribing for a short time and then upon discovering that it simply isn't holding my interest, stop the subscription and stop playing. I don't feel like I wasted money. If I had fun it's all good. But, I do think as to what I could have spent that same money on in a game I know I already enjoy.
Subscriptions have more exclusivity and this is nice... I just often simply don't enjoy them as much. For instance I spent $70-ish dollars on EVE online within the last 2 months. And, I am finding now that the game simply fails to hold my attention. And, I probably won't renew my subscription next month. It would have been nice to know that before I dropped money on it. But, sub-games simply don't seem to give me that option. I feel like I have to spend money to find out if I am actually going to enjoy it or not.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The thing is, I don't care what it costs if it's a truly great game. There just aren't any truly great games and the communities in every single game suck, therefore I cannot imagine any game worth paying a sub for, or even worth playing for free. Money isn't the issue, having a fun time is. If I'm not having fun, and I don't in modern MMOs anymore, then I just don't do it at all, regardless of how expensive or cheap it is.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Well, there are plenty of great SP games, or MMOs that are good enough SP games. Forget about community. Strangers are not dependable for fun in a video game. There are plenty of other ways that i enjoy.