i think the f2p world and the sub world are about to find a 'happy medium', a balance if you will.
i think that the convenience of a subscription is going to have enough appeal, at least here in the US if not the West in general.
people do get worn out by being asked for money every time they launch or exit a game, or more pragmatically, every time they simply want to complete a goal ingame and find that the subscription folks achieved that same goal just a bit more conveniently.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
This entire thing both on reddit and on here is overblown.
You can't compare models used in China/Asian countries and the models used in "western countries". Our governments and cultures are completely different.
Pretty much every game has a different payment structure in China. This has to do with both governmental regulations in China as well as cultural differences. In China and many Asian countries, "Pay to win" structures don't have the same stigma as in the west. Meaning, pretty much every company is likely to adopt a pay to win structure in China (with obvious governmental regulations) as well as other asian countries. It's not necessarily taking advantage of people as much as pandering to the culture and wants of population.
This is why every game undergoes extensive modification when going between eastern vs western cultures. Games coming out of Asia are typically made less "Pay to Win" for western countries because that structure is heavily frowned upon. This is also why for game coming out of Asia that haven't had extensive modification are often raked through the online coals here in the west: we don't like "pay to win" or "grinding". Hence the "asian grinder" stereotype.
tl;dr You can't pass judgement on the models used in Asia. Different regulations and cultural worldviews will make for a different model.
Also, of course any screen shot from a internal test server is going to be in English. ArenaNet is an American country, and I'm pretty sure many don't speak Chinese (some might, but it's not a guarantee). Have to be able to read what you type in order to develop a game...
Now if they were to introduce this in the west, feel free to grab your pitchforks. ArenaNet stated that this is not the case, so stop with the annoying conspiracy theories unless you can prove it.
I question the validity of the use of the term "Resurrection Buff". 1st ANET never use the word "buff / debuff" in the game, everything is called "Boon" or "Condition". The 2nd official term is not "Ressurection" but "Revivial"
They have already admitted that it was real...... It is just a test for a different market, but it is indeed valid.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
They need to make expansions if they want more of my money. I'm not currently playing GW2 and I'm not interested in this "living story" update model. Expansions releases are exciting times for a mmorpg, dropping a content and feature bomb on players while luring old players back.
Regular updates does not have that same exciting feeling, tbh they have absolutely zero pull compared to expansions, and they have zero publicity, I dont recall seeing barely any news about GW2 content updates. Bad business strategy.
Originally posted by bcbully They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
Didn't they all leave for Planetside 2?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by bcbully They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
Originally posted by bcbully They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
The few times I have logged in over the past few months my server has been kinda dead. Empty zones and all. I have seen a few post where people are saying the same about their servers. Would not shock me if this is a needed cash infusion if that is the case. Their B2P model needs people playing to pay the bills. With subs you can not play a month here and there and still they get ya with that 15 bucks a month.
Originally posted by bcbully They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
with ESO's current combat? not a chance
Agreed.. ESO's combat is horrible. I was shocked at how bad it was.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Originally posted by bcbully They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
with ESO's current combat? not a chance
IMO I would rather ESO combat hands down. GW2 twitch style and no trinity just has not done well for what I want in a MMO. ESO trinity is at lest an option, not the only one but its there. Also you dont need to spam dodge, you can block as well. Watching vids of dungeon runs in GW2 looked more like an acrobatic game then combat. Ya ESO over GW2 combat any day.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle The few times I have logged in over the past few months my server has been kinda dead. Empty zones and all. I have seen a few post where people are saying the same about their servers. Would not shock me if this is a needed cash infusion if that is the case. Their B2P model needs people playing to pay the bills. With subs you can not play a month here and there and still they get ya with that 15 bucks a month.
Not Desolation.
What server are you in?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by bcbully They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
with ESO's current combat? not a chance
IMO I would rather ESO combat hands down. GW2 twitch style and no trinity just has not done well for what I want in a MMO. ESO trinity is at lest an option, not the only one but its there. Also you dont need to spam dodge, you can block as well. Watching vids of dungeon runs in GW2 looked more like an acrobatic game then combat. Ya ESO over GW2 combat any day.
Do you spam dodge in GW2?
I could swear that was a recharge (endurance) on dodge.
I could also swear there are blocks in GW2.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by bcbully They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
with ESO's current combat? not a chance
IMO I would rather ESO combat hands down. GW2 twitch style and no trinity just has not done well for what I want in a MMO. ESO trinity is at lest an option, not the only one but its there. Also you dont need to spam dodge, you can block as well. Watching vids of dungeon runs in GW2 looked more like an acrobatic game then combat. Ya ESO over GW2 combat any day.
Do you spam dodge in GW2?
I could swear that was a recharge (endurance) on dodge.
I could also swear there are blocks in GW2.
If you never played with an active block button, it hard to understand how much more dynamic it makes combat.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle The few times I have logged in over the past few months my server has been kinda dead. Empty zones and all. I have seen a few post where people are saying the same about their servers. Would not shock me if this is a needed cash infusion if that is the case. Their B2P model needs people playing to pay the bills. With subs you can not play a month here and there and still they get ya with that 15 bucks a month.
Not Desolation.
What server are you in?
Patching to find out... I switch servers mine was so bad. I dont remember the name of the new one. Or the old one for that matter. Not like you see your server selection every time you log in lol. When the patch is done I will post.
Originally posted by bcbully They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
with ESO's current combat? not a chance
IMO I would rather ESO combat hands down. GW2 twitch style and no trinity just has not done well for what I want in a MMO. ESO trinity is at lest an option, not the only one but its there. Also you dont need to spam dodge, you can block as well. Watching vids of dungeon runs in GW2 looked more like an acrobatic game then combat. Ya ESO over GW2 combat any day.
Do you spam dodge in GW2?
I could swear that was a recharge (endurance) on dodge.
I could also swear there are blocks in GW2.
If you never played with an active block button, it hard to understand how much more dynamic it makes combat.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle The few times I have logged in over the past few months my server has been kinda dead. Empty zones and all. I have seen a few post where people are saying the same about their servers. Would not shock me if this is a needed cash infusion if that is the case. Their B2P model needs people playing to pay the bills. With subs you can not play a month here and there and still they get ya with that 15 bucks a month.
Not Desolation.
What server are you in?
Patching to find out... I switch servers mine was so bad. I dont remember the name of the new one. Or the old one for that matter. Not like you see your server selection every time you log in lol. When the patch is done I will post.
Tarnished Coast is the server name and beside it says the wonderful - heavy load. But you walk around the zones and play. I see very few players unless you are in the high level area and even there... not nearly as many as it used too. Trying to get Public Quests done is not fun. The world feels so empty its sad. Could be just people standing in town and in Q for fractals but that does not do anything for people who like to play in the persistent world. But my guess is like a lot of games, there server loads are not what they show.
Originally posted by bcbully They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
with ESO's current combat? not a chance
IMO I would rather ESO combat hands down. GW2 twitch style and no trinity just has not done well for what I want in a MMO. ESO trinity is at lest an option, not the only one but its there. Also you dont need to spam dodge, you can block as well. Watching vids of dungeon runs in GW2 looked more like an acrobatic game then combat. Ya ESO over GW2 combat any day.
Do you spam dodge in GW2?
I could swear that was a recharge (endurance) on dodge.
I could also swear there are blocks in GW2.
If you never played with an active block button, it hard to understand how much more dynamic it makes combat.
Doesn't the block in ESO have a cooldown mechanism (stamina drain or something)?
Or are you saying that you can spam block and that is somehow superior to spamming dodge?
Again, GW2 has active blocks.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by bcbully They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
with ESO's current combat? not a chance
IMO I would rather ESO combat hands down. GW2 twitch style and no trinity just has not done well for what I want in a MMO. ESO trinity is at lest an option, not the only one but its there. Also you dont need to spam dodge, you can block as well. Watching vids of dungeon runs in GW2 looked more like an acrobatic game then combat. Ya ESO over GW2 combat any day.
I also love that ESO has block.
I play heavies exclusively, and it always bothered me in GW2 to watch my Guardian roll around on the ground in full plate armour.
In ESO you can spec to dodge if you are a Rogue, or block in you're a tank.
Rithwis, Righteous Golem of Camelot | Skritha, Orc Archer of Tamriel | Bloodwod, Sawbones of Auraxis | Thrumdi, Blue Norn of Tyria | Gwidwod, Spider of the Ettenmoors | Gideon Slack, Hunter of Alsius
Originally posted by Nanfoodle The few times I have logged in over the past few months my server has been kinda dead. Empty zones and all. I have seen a few post where people are saying the same about their servers. Would not shock me if this is a needed cash infusion if that is the case. Their B2P model needs people playing to pay the bills. With subs you can not play a month here and there and still they get ya with that 15 bucks a month.
Not Desolation.
What server are you in?
Patching to find out... I switch servers mine was so bad. I dont remember the name of the new one. Or the old one for that matter. Not like you see your server selection every time you log in lol. When the patch is done I will post.
Tarnished Coast is the server name and beside it says the wonderful - heavy load. But you walk around the zones and play. I see very few players unless you are in the high level area and even there... not nearly as many as it used too. Trying to get Public Quests done is not fun. The world feels so empty its sad. Could be just people standing in town and in Q for fractals but that does not do anything for people who like to play in the persistent world. But my guess is like a lot of games, there server loads are not what they show.
First, GW2 is a big world and not only that you can travel it instantly (if you previously unlocked it)
Second, the large majority of DE can be completed alone (any not tagged as [group event] and even some of these can be soloed) or with a couple of people.
If you can't you need better equipment, build, improve your play skill or any combination of the things mentioned.
Third if you shout in map about an event or chain of events dealing with champions, I'm sure 2-5 players will pop up.
If 2-5 players popping up when you call it for it in map chat is "an empty zone" I guess every MMORPG is empty unless it is a tiny world mmoprg.
I keep seeing people everywhere I go.
Caledon forest, 5 people (this is generally instance party size) underwater.
Wayfarer foothills, 5 people in some off path cave.
Of course the big events will attract a big number of players (many players just go around the world tracking this kind of event)
Tons of people like to talk about new areas, as if new areas will not cause an even bigger dispersal of players.
Having 400K concurrent users at release in 45 servers with access to 5 zones (225 zones) is a bit different to having less than 400K concurrent users in 51 servers with access to 26 zones (1326 zones, excluding instances and towns).
Even if the population was the same 2 million than at launch (it is lower) you would see 1/5 of the population in each zone. Or if you prefer GW2 would have to have over 10 million players (2 million concurrent users) to keep the same population density.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by Nanfoodle The few times I have logged in over the past few months my server has been kinda dead. Empty zones and all. I have seen a few post where people are saying the same about their servers. Would not shock me if this is a needed cash infusion if that is the case. Their B2P model needs people playing to pay the bills. With subs you can not play a month here and there and still they get ya with that 15 bucks a month.
That isn't a subscription service, or at least, not the way you would recognize one (Flat 15 dollar fee)
IT's a tiered service. I doubt that even if Arenanet wanted to, that they could get away with such an exceedingly Chinese system of payment, nor should anybody WISH that they do.
Imagine if one of the bigger games (GW2 IS one of the bigger MMORPGs) tried such a system and found it extremely profitable. .... and lots of games started switching to a tiered P2W system where people who pay hundreds of dollars for higher level tiers have a noticable advantage and premium status. That's the type of system that China is using. z.z
Originally posted by Nanfoodle The few times I have logged in over the past few months my server has been kinda dead. Empty zones and all. I have seen a few post where people are saying the same about their servers. Would not shock me if this is a needed cash infusion if that is the case. Their B2P model needs people playing to pay the bills. With subs you can not play a month here and there and still they get ya with that 15 bucks a month.
That isn't a subscription service, or at least, not the way you would recognize one (Flat 15 dollar fee)
IT's a tiered service. I doubt that even if Arenanet wanted to, that they could get away with such an exceedingly Chinese system of payment, nor should anybody WISH that they do.
Imagine if one of the bigger games (GW2 IS one of the bigger MMORPGs) tried such a system and found it extremely profitable. .... and lots of games started switching to a tiered P2W system where people who pay hundreds of dollars for higher level tiers have a noticable advantage and premium status. That's the type of system that China is using. z.z
Yeh Snail thought they could do that in the west with Age of Wushu. They are very much regretting that move now considering their dwindling population and talks of another server merge. Bigger games like GW2, FF(I forget the number again), and WoW can make subtle changes here and there with various content updates to keep players playing and buying gems. Small niche games like Wushu are just suffering due to poor planning on the Chinese Devs and believing their VIP system and cash shop rentals would survive very long in the West. Western devs are smart enough to know to adapt their payment models when publishing a game in the East.
Originally posted by bcbully They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
with ESO's current combat? not a chance
IMO I would rather ESO combat hands down. GW2 twitch style and no trinity just has not done well for what I want in a MMO. ESO trinity is at lest an option, not the only one but its there. Also you dont need to spam dodge, you can block as well. Watching vids of dungeon runs in GW2 looked more like an acrobatic game then combat. Ya ESO over GW2 combat any day.
Do you spam dodge in GW2?
I could swear that was a recharge (endurance) on dodge.
I could also swear there are blocks in GW2.
If you never played with an active block button, it hard to understand how much more dynamic it makes combat.
Doesn't the block in ESO have a cooldown mechanism (stamina drain or something)?
Or are you saying that you can spam block and that is somehow superior to spamming dodge?
Again, GW2 has active blocks.
You can hold block as long as you want. Blocking attacks take stamina. No, GW2 does not have an active block system like ESO or Wushu. I see you swing, I can put up my guard block your attack. All players, all classes can do this at any time. In or out of combat. It's very different trust me.
Originally posted by bcbully They will need to do something. ESO is going to hit GW2 hard. AvA is a better product than WvW. I do not know the percentage of WvW only players in GW2, but that percentage will leave.
with ESO's current combat? not a chance
IMO I would rather ESO combat hands down. GW2 twitch style and no trinity just has not done well for what I want in a MMO. ESO trinity is at lest an option, not the only one but its there. Also you dont need to spam dodge, you can block as well. Watching vids of dungeon runs in GW2 looked more like an acrobatic game then combat. Ya ESO over GW2 combat any day.
Well to each their own. I found ESO's combat god awful. They really need to have some feedback additions to the player and add in impact to the mobs. Most of the time I felt like I was swinging at air, could only tell that I hit them by looking at their health bar. Almost everyone I've talked to that has played has had my opinion so you are probably in the minority in that.
Comments
here's my latest thinking:
i think the f2p world and the sub world are about to find a 'happy medium', a balance if you will.
i think that the convenience of a subscription is going to have enough appeal, at least here in the US if not the West in general.
people do get worn out by being asked for money every time they launch or exit a game, or more pragmatically, every time they simply want to complete a goal ingame and find that the subscription folks achieved that same goal just a bit more conveniently.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
This entire thing both on reddit and on here is overblown.
You can't compare models used in China/Asian countries and the models used in "western countries". Our governments and cultures are completely different.
Pretty much every game has a different payment structure in China. This has to do with both governmental regulations in China as well as cultural differences. In China and many Asian countries, "Pay to win" structures don't have the same stigma as in the west. Meaning, pretty much every company is likely to adopt a pay to win structure in China (with obvious governmental regulations) as well as other asian countries. It's not necessarily taking advantage of people as much as pandering to the culture and wants of population.
This is why every game undergoes extensive modification when going between eastern vs western cultures. Games coming out of Asia are typically made less "Pay to Win" for western countries because that structure is heavily frowned upon. This is also why for game coming out of Asia that haven't had extensive modification are often raked through the online coals here in the west: we don't like "pay to win" or "grinding". Hence the "asian grinder" stereotype.
tl;dr You can't pass judgement on the models used in Asia. Different regulations and cultural worldviews will make for a different model.
Also, of course any screen shot from a internal test server is going to be in English. ArenaNet is an American country, and I'm pretty sure many don't speak Chinese (some might, but it's not a guarantee). Have to be able to read what you type in order to develop a game...
Now if they were to introduce this in the west, feel free to grab your pitchforks. ArenaNet stated that this is not the case, so stop with the annoying conspiracy theories unless you can prove it.
They have already admitted that it was real...... It is just a test for a different market, but it is indeed valid.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
They need to make expansions if they want more of my money. I'm not currently playing GW2 and I'm not interested in this "living story" update model. Expansions releases are exciting times for a mmorpg, dropping a content and feature bomb on players while luring old players back.
Regular updates does not have that same exciting feeling, tbh they have absolutely zero pull compared to expansions, and they have zero publicity, I dont recall seeing barely any news about GW2 content updates. Bad business strategy.
Didn't they all leave for Planetside 2?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
ESO isn't going to hit anything hard. ESO sucks.
with ESO's current combat? not a chance
Agreed.. ESO's combat is horrible. I was shocked at how bad it was.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
IMO I would rather ESO combat hands down. GW2 twitch style and no trinity just has not done well for what I want in a MMO. ESO trinity is at lest an option, not the only one but its there. Also you dont need to spam dodge, you can block as well. Watching vids of dungeon runs in GW2 looked more like an acrobatic game then combat. Ya ESO over GW2 combat any day.
Not Desolation.
What server are you in?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Do you spam dodge in GW2?
I could swear that was a recharge (endurance) on dodge.
I could also swear there are blocks in GW2.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
If you never played with an active block button, it hard to understand how much more dynamic it makes combat.
Patching to find out... I switch servers mine was so bad. I dont remember the name of the new one. Or the old one for that matter. Not like you see your server selection every time you log in lol. When the patch is done I will post.
This! Block + dodge for the win =-)
Tarnished Coast is the server name and beside it says the wonderful - heavy load. But you walk around the zones and play. I see very few players unless you are in the high level area and even there... not nearly as many as it used too. Trying to get Public Quests done is not fun. The world feels so empty its sad. Could be just people standing in town and in Q for fractals but that does not do anything for people who like to play in the persistent world. But my guess is like a lot of games, there server loads are not what they show.
Doesn't the block in ESO have a cooldown mechanism (stamina drain or something)?
Or are you saying that you can spam block and that is somehow superior to spamming dodge?
Again, GW2 has active blocks.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I also love that ESO has block.
I play heavies exclusively, and it always bothered me in GW2 to watch my Guardian roll around on the ground in full plate armour.
In ESO you can spec to dodge if you are a Rogue, or block in you're a tank.
Rithwis, Righteous Golem of Camelot | Skritha, Orc Archer of Tamriel | Bloodwod, Sawbones of Auraxis | Thrumdi, Blue Norn of Tyria | Gwidwod, Spider of the Ettenmoors | Gideon Slack, Hunter of Alsius
First, GW2 is a big world and not only that you can travel it instantly (if you previously unlocked it)
Second, the large majority of DE can be completed alone (any not tagged as [group event] and even some of these can be soloed) or with a couple of people.
If you can't you need better equipment, build, improve your play skill or any combination of the things mentioned.
Third if you shout in map about an event or chain of events dealing with champions, I'm sure 2-5 players will pop up.
If 2-5 players popping up when you call it for it in map chat is "an empty zone" I guess every MMORPG is empty unless it is a tiny world mmoprg.
I keep seeing people everywhere I go.
Caledon forest, 5 people (this is generally instance party size) underwater.
Wayfarer foothills, 5 people in some off path cave.
Of course the big events will attract a big number of players (many players just go around the world tracking this kind of event)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tons of people like to talk about new areas, as if new areas will not cause an even bigger dispersal of players.
Having 400K concurrent users at release in 45 servers with access to 5 zones (225 zones) is a bit different to having less than 400K concurrent users in 51 servers with access to 26 zones (1326 zones, excluding instances and towns).
Even if the population was the same 2 million than at launch (it is lower) you would see 1/5 of the population in each zone. Or if you prefer GW2 would have to have over 10 million players (2 million concurrent users) to keep the same population density.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
That isn't a subscription service, or at least, not the way you would recognize one (Flat 15 dollar fee)
IT's a tiered service. I doubt that even if Arenanet wanted to, that they could get away with such an exceedingly Chinese system of payment, nor should anybody WISH that they do.
Imagine if one of the bigger games (GW2 IS one of the bigger MMORPGs) tried such a system and found it extremely profitable. .... and lots of games started switching to a tiered P2W system where people who pay hundreds of dollars for higher level tiers have a noticable advantage and premium status. That's the type of system that China is using. z.z
Yeh Snail thought they could do that in the west with Age of Wushu. They are very much regretting that move now considering their dwindling population and talks of another server merge. Bigger games like GW2, FF(I forget the number again), and WoW can make subtle changes here and there with various content updates to keep players playing and buying gems. Small niche games like Wushu are just suffering due to poor planning on the Chinese Devs and believing their VIP system and cash shop rentals would survive very long in the West. Western devs are smart enough to know to adapt their payment models when publishing a game in the East.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
You can hold block as long as you want. Blocking attacks take stamina. No, GW2 does not have an active block system like ESO or Wushu. I see you swing, I can put up my guard block your attack. All players, all classes can do this at any time. In or out of combat. It's very different trust me.
Well to each their own. I found ESO's combat god awful. They really need to have some feedback additions to the player and add in impact to the mobs. Most of the time I felt like I was swinging at air, could only tell that I hit them by looking at their health bar. Almost everyone I've talked to that has played has had my opinion so you are probably in the minority in that.