Originally posted by SEANMCAD I dont understand the point of NDA.
Many gamers apparently think that companies use NDA's to hide things from players.
NDA's are typically created to protect what the company feels to be valuable information from competitors and has nothing to do with players at all.
Sometimes, it's not even strictly about either of those, if a marketing department has enough pull within a company, they can set timetables for information release so that their staff can hit deadlines to produce videos, artwork, talking points, setting up exclusive interviews, etc.
Now, keep in mind, just because we (the gamers) don't think something is unique, new, or worth protecting, doesn't mean the company shares that view of their own product.
I understand NDA's early in the development cycle but by now?....no doesnt make sense.
I wonder if all NDA agreements also involved players buying something...that would explain a lot
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
So.. They gave people an old beta build for the "stress test" then 4 weeks later allow the press to report on said old build beta?
I sure hope Bethesda is smarter than that and have recently let the press have access to something more finished.
any game media outlet that doesnt clearly inform players the difference between a beta and a finished product should be pushed out of the business.
Any player who doesnt understand the difference should not be playing games.
Its really not that hard of a concept.
Pre-release press evaluations and previews are done on near-finished products, not heavy beta products. That's why they're called previews, they're previews of the release game; not the beta game. General thoughts on the game are something else and can apply to any alpha/beta but the upcoming proposals are previews, not general thoughts.
If you looked at MMO marketing, you'd know this is why NDAs exist in the first place. They're designed to protect your game from damage until you feel comfortable with people getting out there and scrutinizing it.
Thus my original point stands: that stress test build people got was broken, unfinished and lacking. It was a build from November last year apparently. So, once again, I hope the press actually got into a more complete release.
Originally posted by SEANMCAD I dont understand the point of NDA.
Once upon a time it was used to protect proprietary data and prevent another company from utilizing your ideas/systems in their own game and beat you to market with your own idea. That was back when you could fit the whole thing on a few floppies or partially fill a CD.
With the development time and shear amount of data in todays games NDA does not fill that function anymore. It's more a marketing tool now. As you can use it to effectively eliminate most pre-release bad press/tester comments, and generate greater hype by dangling out tidbits every week or so without ever really saying much.
I don't really like the concept of early access and kick starter as I see the potential for abuse, but I do see them having one possible positive effect on the industry if the trend proves successful as it will force out this ancient crutch of game design.
If they drop the NDA then, there will have been a lot of high dudgeon and hot air gone to waste here over the last couple of days. If mmorpg could just capture the energy of that angst and recycle it, it would do wonders for their electric bill.
Does slightly reinforce the idea that Amazon may have jumped the gun with their announcement. Anyway, SOON......
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Originally posted by SEANMCAD I dont understand the point of NDA.
Many gamers apparently think that companies use NDA's to hide things from players.
NDA's are typically created to protect what the company feels to be valuable information from competitors and has nothing to do with players at all.
Sometimes, it's not even strictly about either of those, if a marketing department has enough pull within a company, they can set timetables for information release so that their staff can hit deadlines to produce videos, artwork, talking points, setting up exclusive interviews, etc.
Now, keep in mind, just because we (the gamers) don't think something is unique, new, or worth protecting, doesn't mean the company shares that view of their own product.
Well that would be 100% correct if all betas wouldn't hand out invites to devs from other companies (directly or indirectly) and guide writers.
Originally posted by SEANMCAD I dont understand the point of NDA.
Many gamers apparently think that companies use NDA's to hide things from players.
NDA's are typically created to protect what the company feels to be valuable information from competitors and has nothing to do with players at all.
Sometimes, it's not even strictly about either of those, if a marketing department has enough pull within a company, they can set timetables for information release so that their staff can hit deadlines to produce videos, artwork, talking points, setting up exclusive interviews, etc.
Now, keep in mind, just because we (the gamers) don't think something is unique, new, or worth protecting, doesn't mean the company shares that view of their own product.
I understand NDA's early in the development cycle but by now?....no doesnt make sense.
I wonder if all NDA agreements also involved players buying something...that would explain a lot
Seeing as how they havent talked about high level content and adventure zones maybe they feel it is still needed. And they have only talked about the basics of Cyrodil.
So.. They gave people an old beta build for the "stress test" then 4 weeks later allow the press to report on said old build beta?
I sure hope Bethesda is smarter than that and have recently let the press have access to something more finished.
any game media outlet that doesnt clearly inform players the difference between a beta and a finished product should be pushed out of the business.
Any player who doesnt understand the difference should not be playing games.
Its really not that hard of a concept.
That was true 10 years ago, but with the rise of f2p and games in "beta" with running cash shops and things like paid alpha access what exactly beta and even alpha is anymore is very much open for interpretation.
Originally posted by SEANMCAD I dont understand the point of NDA.
Many gamers apparently think that companies use NDA's to hide things from players.
NDA's are typically created to protect what the company feels to be valuable information from competitors and has nothing to do with players at all.
Sometimes, it's not even strictly about either of those, if a marketing department has enough pull within a company, they can set timetables for information release so that their staff can hit deadlines to produce videos, artwork, talking points, setting up exclusive interviews, etc.
Now, keep in mind, just because we (the gamers) don't think something is unique, new, or worth protecting, doesn't mean the company shares that view of their own product.
A real NDA has nothing to do with the "NDA" that weekend testers sign. Beta NDA is only there to keep a lid on bad press, a marketing tool.
Every preorder made for any game ensures that companies keep exploiting their customers this way, selling half-assed products for those that don't know or care about quality. For reference, see swtor.
Originally posted by BeansnBread These forums are gonna go nuts...
I actually think it will be a lot tamer than the preorder discussion since people will actually be argueing the merits of the game rather than more divisive monetization issues.
I do hope this bodes well for an open beta, since there was some suggestion that it may not occur.
I hope so. I'm really hesitant to preorder without at least a few hours in OBT. Not having one just provides fuel to the naysayers and keeps some of us on the fence.
Likely will be a press NDA lift... with stipulations and other factors... the good stuff you can't fully trust though you can hopefully read through the lines of what they are saying as well.
Who knows though, maybe they will lift the NDA.... I'm just very doubtful of it.
I hope so because I'm not preordering Sh&T unless I see real gameplay from real players, not filtered gameplay like we have been seeing.
EQ Landmark sold me just because they droped the NDA, this shows me that I can trust them, I get to see and hear from real people not being paided like a $5.00 hooker to say nice things.
Games that use NDA are nothing more corperate money grabs and can not be trusted, this happens to all underground things when they become mainstream, from music to video games.
Word to the wise "DO not Trust a Corporate Capitalism", everything they touch turns to crap, just look at the MMO's of today.
From what I understand they press played a PVE beta last weekend and all the game play and opinions from that beta will be release. I don't think anyone cares how bad previous betas were just how the game is now. Also, the press and possible a good chunk of stress test beta testers may be getting into a PVP beta this weekend and so Friday is last PVE beta with no NDA and next week should be PVP beta with no NDA. Instead of a couple hours they probably gave the press several days to derp around, which should give us a feel for what to actually expect from the game as far as PVE goes... Maybe we might even see some long game footage streaming... I just hope they use better software than they usually use for the frickin GW2 and WildStar and other game footage, seriously wth are they using their iPhones? To the Press: if your recording streaming software sucks do us a favor and just don't do it.
Originally posted by Pyatra From what I understand they press played a PVE beta last weekend and all the game play and opinions from that beta will be release. I don't think anyone cares how bad previous betas were just how the game is now. Also, the press and possible a good chunk of stress test beta testers may be getting into a PVP beta this weekend and so Friday is last PVE beta with no NDA and next week should be PVP beta with no NDA. Instead of a couple hours they probably gave the press several days to derp around, which should give us a feel for what to actually expect from the game as far as PVE goes... Maybe we might even see some long game footage streaming... I just hope they use better software than they usually use for the frickin GW2 and WildStar and other game footage, seriously wth are they using their iPhones? To the Press: if your recording streaming software sucks do us a favor and just don't do it.
That's just it, with all due respect to MMORPG.com I don't trust press coverage, they can and are paid off to tell lies and do not express themselves the way they really want to, I have been burned soooo many times taking press coverage to heart, nowdays i will not buy or even wait the download untill I get to see a basement dweller play live on Twitch for at lest an hour with many question from me and others alike, only then will I buy if the game is up to snuff.
Originally posted by Volgore This rather sounds like that the press folks are allowed to reveal a little more. Not like a total NDA lift...
That would be some weird preview... would they use the phrase "I can't tell you but trust me" a whole lot?
Nah, I'm betting on NDA lift as well.
NDA lift for the press and some fan sites.... not for the beta players... that would be my best bet...
Yup, the marketing is strong in this game, so "exclusivity opportunities" for the headline review sites (and possibly favored YouTuber's) are most likely part of the plan.
A week or two later may bring a general NDA lift, to create a critical mass of traffic very close to the release date.
Likelihood of a FULL NDA lift are slim to none as the likelihood of a beta for the masses is pretty high.
I find it very diffcult to think they will lift an NDA for everyone when people are running around the game in a beta. But if they do and if they allow twitch feeds and simulcasts or whatever guys do to broadcast their gameplay live I will give Zenimax credit for that one.
But knowing what I know based on everything they have done up to this point it is unlikely.
I suspect it will be the typical puff pieces and "this game was awesome" shit we have seen form the 'press' in every other crappy game that has come out the past decade.
I think tentonhammer was the only site I have seen that has even given a single critical (and that game sucked out loud) preview of a game.
But I digress. These games like this most people have made up their minds. Or in the case of this one it may have taken alttle longer.
Comments
I understand NDA's early in the development cycle but by now?....no doesnt make sense.
I wonder if all NDA agreements also involved players buying something...that would explain a lot
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Pre-release press evaluations and previews are done on near-finished products, not heavy beta products. That's why they're called previews, they're previews of the release game; not the beta game. General thoughts on the game are something else and can apply to any alpha/beta but the upcoming proposals are previews, not general thoughts.
If you looked at MMO marketing, you'd know this is why NDAs exist in the first place. They're designed to protect your game from damage until you feel comfortable with people getting out there and scrutinizing it.
Thus my original point stands: that stress test build people got was broken, unfinished and lacking. It was a build from November last year apparently. So, once again, I hope the press actually got into a more complete release.
Once upon a time it was used to protect proprietary data and prevent another company from utilizing your ideas/systems in their own game and beat you to market with your own idea. That was back when you could fit the whole thing on a few floppies or partially fill a CD.
With the development time and shear amount of data in todays games NDA does not fill that function anymore. It's more a marketing tool now. As you can use it to effectively eliminate most pre-release bad press/tester comments, and generate greater hype by dangling out tidbits every week or so without ever really saying much.
I don't really like the concept of early access and kick starter as I see the potential for abuse, but I do see them having one possible positive effect on the industry if the trend proves successful as it will force out this ancient crutch of game design.
If they drop the NDA then, there will have been a lot of high dudgeon and hot air gone to waste here over the last couple of days. If mmorpg could just capture the energy of that angst and recycle it, it would do wonders for their electric bill.
Does slightly reinforce the idea that Amazon may have jumped the gun with their announcement. Anyway, SOON......
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Well that would be 100% correct if all betas wouldn't hand out invites to devs from other companies (directly or indirectly) and guide writers.
Seeing as how they havent talked about high level content and adventure zones maybe they feel it is still needed. And they have only talked about the basics of Cyrodil.
Not sure what you mean by buying something.
That was true 10 years ago, but with the rise of f2p and games in "beta" with running cash shops and things like paid alpha access what exactly beta and even alpha is anymore is very much open for interpretation.
NDA lift for the press and some fan sites.... not for the beta players... that would be my best bet...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
A real NDA has nothing to do with the "NDA" that weekend testers sign. Beta NDA is only there to keep a lid on bad press, a marketing tool.
Every preorder made for any game ensures that companies keep exploiting their customers this way, selling half-assed products for those that don't know or care about quality. For reference, see swtor.
I hope so. I'm really hesitant to preorder without at least a few hours in OBT. Not having one just provides fuel to the naysayers and keeps some of us on the fence.
Not really. The mods will ban everyone with even the tiniest criticism just like they did with GW2. Did you not see that full page ESO ad?
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
Likely will be a press NDA lift... with stipulations and other factors... the good stuff you can't fully trust though you can hopefully read through the lines of what they are saying as well.
Who knows though, maybe they will lift the NDA.... I'm just very doubtful of it.
I hope so because I'm not preordering Sh&T unless I see real gameplay from real players, not filtered gameplay like we have been seeing.
EQ Landmark sold me just because they droped the NDA, this shows me that I can trust them, I get to see and hear from real people not being paided like a $5.00 hooker to say nice things.
Games that use NDA are nothing more corperate money grabs and can not be trusted, this happens to all underground things when they become mainstream, from music to video games.
Word to the wise "DO not Trust a Corporate Capitalism", everything they touch turns to crap, just look at the MMO's of today.
That's just it, with all due respect to MMORPG.com I don't trust press coverage, they can and are paid off to tell lies and do not express themselves the way they really want to, I have been burned soooo many times taking press coverage to heart, nowdays i will not buy or even wait the download untill I get to see a basement dweller play live on Twitch for at lest an hour with many question from me and others alike, only then will I buy if the game is up to snuff.
Nice.
Though I think I will sit over this one anyway until release and see how it goes, even though I am eager to play it.
--------------------------------------------
Youtube newb:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC96N3cxBuqKTPV2BQNlzGUw
Well you can google some reviews already (not from respected gaming sites obviously), it doesnt take much work
I hope Im not breaking NDA by saying this as Im not posting any sources etc..
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Yup, the marketing is strong in this game, so "exclusivity opportunities" for the headline review sites (and possibly favored YouTuber's) are most likely part of the plan.
A week or two later may bring a general NDA lift, to create a critical mass of traffic very close to the release date.
Likelihood of a FULL NDA lift are slim to none as the likelihood of a beta for the masses is pretty high.
I find it very diffcult to think they will lift an NDA for everyone when people are running around the game in a beta. But if they do and if they allow twitch feeds and simulcasts or whatever guys do to broadcast their gameplay live I will give Zenimax credit for that one.
But knowing what I know based on everything they have done up to this point it is unlikely.
I suspect it will be the typical puff pieces and "this game was awesome" shit we have seen form the 'press' in every other crappy game that has come out the past decade.
I think tentonhammer was the only site I have seen that has even given a single critical (and that game sucked out loud) preview of a game.
But I digress. These games like this most people have made up their minds. Or in the case of this one it may have taken alttle longer.