A long time ago what feels like an eon I played Everquest and tried crafting in it. Collecting ingredients were so very hard and the crafting was so expensive and you never made anything useful for the level you were. I never got very far in it and decided this was no fun at all especially because I was putting in way more money than I could ill afford.
I tried crafting in DAoC which was slightly more fun but running about doing those commissions I think it was called got very tedious too and again it required money to get higher which if you weren't actively selling got you nowhere.
Then WoW and I tried making things my level but fighting with people trying to outbid you in the AH for an ingredient got old fast then again I fell beyond the curve and gave up because recipes were insanely expensive and decided what the devil might as well go to a dungeon and get my gear.
Then I went back and played Everquest 2 and my whole outlook changed. The thing about that game was you could by harvesting and getting the ingredients actually make and use things that were commiserate to your level plus it had a very nice (before the dumb down) system where you even died if you failed so you had to pay attention to what you did. I made poisons to spells and best of all furniture. I could create magnificent things that I used to decorate my own home thereby gaining commissions to work on other people's homes. When they came to my home and like what I did they asked me to make a piece for them and I made money. Yes finally I began to enjoy crafting. It was the balance between finding things you could use at the level you were and making interesting things like carpets and portraits and the odd vase or two.
After that I crafted in Vanguard and then every other game after that because I got addicted to it thanks to Everquest 2.
There aren't any good crafting systems in games atm. Probably FFXI and preSWOTR had the best. No, not Everquest, it's crafting was to hard to be enjoyable. Wanting to craft depends on if you want to play a game or live in a game world. Where I live in Illinois USA I cannot walk in the woods because it's over run with poison oak. I happen to be highly allergic. Before the oak spread I spent a lot of time on deer trails. I miss that but I can get it from online games with no itching involved. So I appreciate a realistic game with woods and same for crafting. I know how to craft a few things in real life. I came from a family of artists. But I can't sew. I'm not going to invest the money/time into learning how to sew. But if I can quickly make an outfit in a game for an avatar that's neat! I don't think there is a huge need for home spun clothes in real life anymore anyway. Unless you're a cosplayer or part of an anachronistic society.
I don't think there is a way to explain the joy of making shiz. No judgement on those who don't find it interesting.
I don't think there is a way to explain the joy of making shiz. No judgement on those who don't find it interesting.
People just have different preferences. Explaining joy .. even if the other person can understand intellectually .. is not going to change their preferences.
Personally, i don't play games to create .. i do that to destroy.
Originally posted by Razeekster I've never understood the appeal of crafting. To me it's just another grind, and unlike questing, which at least has the appeal of finding out about the lore of the game, and some of the quests are actually interesting. Crafting though...there is nothing fun or interesting about it, accept maybe the concept. You grind for 100s of mats and then go back to a crafting station and stand there waiting for the crafting bar to finish filling up and create whatever it is you're crafting. I don't get how that's fun at all... Can someone who actually enjoys crafting explain to me how or why it's fun to them? I don't get it...
I hate bad crafting systems, too. But have you played any games with a good crafting system? Try A Tale in the Desert or Puzzle Pirates. Maybe even FFXIV, though that does have a stupid grind for a while until you get your crafting levels up some.
I love having the ability to build individual stuff though.
But the boring grind to get there - ugh.
If I would make an own MMO, learning crafting would be limited to get one of many crafter classes per character, you would have to solve adventuring questlines and spent money to get crafting skill advancement, and the materials and recipes would drop from boss monsters that can only be killed by groups or raid forces, and you could learn only a limited amount of recipes, too.
This way everyone is motivated to do crafting (since so many different crafters are needed), and nobody has to waste too much time on it (but do adventuring which is way more enjoyable, and have to spend money they otherwise could spent on different things), and its clearly social (you need a guild to learn it, and you need lots of other crafters to succeed at it).
Originally posted by Razeekster I've never understood the appeal of crafting. To me it's just another grind, and unlike questing, which at least has the appeal of finding out about the lore of the game, and some of the quests are actually interesting. Crafting though...there is nothing fun or interesting about it, accept maybe the concept. You grind for 100s of mats and then go back to a crafting station and stand there waiting for the crafting bar to finish filling up and create whatever it is you're crafting. I don't get how that's fun at all... Can someone who actually enjoys crafting explain to me how or why it's fun to them? I don't get it...
To me the fun in crafting is the one who keeps everything moving. I love being that guy who makes your day when you see 'that item' on the market. Who enchants or sharpens your <item here>. I love being the guy who looks at a new guild member or friend and says 'I can do better than that.' and gives him a full new outfit.
I thrive being the guy everyone knows to message, because he has all of the rare recipes. Want some endgame items? Yeah. I got your stuff right here champ.
The fun for me in crafting is having the cash to go and buy literally anything I want in the game, and have it impact my in game wallet less than a cup of coffee would in real life.
Crafting and control over the market is what makes the game fun for me. The monster and things I need to murder along the way, are just stops along my journey of complete economic control over a section of the market.
Crafting, like PvP, is one of those things that has been added haphazardly last second to most themeparks recently.
If you don't like one or the other, it may just not be for you, or you may have actually just never played a game with a decent metagame outside of geargrind and killing canned content for the millionth time.
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
well it sounds like swtor is the crafting type for u. u dont do squat. send ur companions out to gather or craft. mats can b in the bank so no need to carry them on u. no need to go to a crafting table or station. just stop and hit a few buttons and continue killing. easiest crafting u can get
well it sounds like swtor is the crafting type for u. u dont do squat. send ur companions out to gather or craft. mats can b in the bank so no need to carry them on u. no need to go to a crafting table or station. just stop and hit a few buttons and continue killing. easiest crafting u can get
nah ... Marvel Heroes is better. In TOR, you still have to send companions out, and manage them. In MH, you just donate your junk to level up, and make whatever you want and it is useful form day 1 (because it upgrades gear, not make them).
The problem with most MMORPGs is that crafting is an afterthought with endgame rewards being better than crafted rewards so why bother with crafting at all. I prefer games like EVE where crafting is meaningful and required to sustain a thriving economy, plus it's a non-combat PvP variant trying to best your competitors on the Market. Fallen Earth has a good crafting system with the need to make components then assemble those components. And of course SWG (yes I went there) had an excellent crafting system as it separated combat and crafting professions, there should be more games like that.
Why do I like crafting? Because I get bored of killing things all the time and exploring gives me something to do while gathering. We all like/dislike different things. I don't see the point of repeatedly grinding dungeons at end game just to get gear when it's more fun to craft it... or easier just to buy it. Each to their own...
The problem with most MMORPGs is that crafting is an afterthought with endgame rewards being better than crafted rewards so why bother with crafting at all.
It is not a problem, in fact, it is preferable, to those who don't care for crafting. And by the way majority of MMOs are designed, i think most don't care about crafting much.
The problem with most MMORPGs is that crafting is an afterthought with endgame rewards being better than crafted rewards so why bother with crafting at all.
It is not a problem, in fact, it is preferable, to those who don't care for crafting. And by the way majority of MMOs are designed, i think most don't care about crafting much.
That's his point. Why have it at all if they're going to put so little thought or effort into the system. Focus on what your game does well and leave the rest out.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Crafting was about helping people, getting rich, mastering the market, doing something besides combat. But now, its BiS or bust. Nevermind if crafters make 95% of the rest of the items in the game, if they can't make that top 5% gear, then its all fail. The worst part is so called "hardcore crafters" advocate this. Sad times. Fortunately, a few devs still get the unique aspects of what a good crafting system can offer.
The problem with most MMORPGs is that crafting is an afterthought with endgame rewards being better than crafted rewards so why bother with crafting at all.
It is not a problem, in fact, it is preferable, to those who don't care for crafting. And by the way majority of MMOs are designed, i think most don't care about crafting much.
That's his point. Why have it at all if they're going to put so little thought or effort into the system. Focus on what your game does well and leave the rest out.
Oh, i have no qualms if many games leave crafting out ...
Comments
A long time ago what feels like an eon I played Everquest and tried crafting in it. Collecting ingredients were so very hard and the crafting was so expensive and you never made anything useful for the level you were. I never got very far in it and decided this was no fun at all especially because I was putting in way more money than I could ill afford.
I tried crafting in DAoC which was slightly more fun but running about doing those commissions I think it was called got very tedious too and again it required money to get higher which if you weren't actively selling got you nowhere.
Then WoW and I tried making things my level but fighting with people trying to outbid you in the AH for an ingredient got old fast then again I fell beyond the curve and gave up because recipes were insanely expensive and decided what the devil might as well go to a dungeon and get my gear.
Then I went back and played Everquest 2 and my whole outlook changed. The thing about that game was you could by harvesting and getting the ingredients actually make and use things that were commiserate to your level plus it had a very nice (before the dumb down) system where you even died if you failed so you had to pay attention to what you did. I made poisons to spells and best of all furniture. I could create magnificent things that I used to decorate my own home thereby gaining commissions to work on other people's homes. When they came to my home and like what I did they asked me to make a piece for them and I made money. Yes finally I began to enjoy crafting. It was the balance between finding things you could use at the level you were and making interesting things like carpets and portraits and the odd vase or two.
After that I crafted in Vanguard and then every other game after that because I got addicted to it thanks to Everquest 2.
There aren't any good crafting systems in games atm. Probably FFXI and preSWOTR had the best. No, not Everquest, it's crafting was to hard to be enjoyable. Wanting to craft depends on if you want to play a game or live in a game world. Where I live in Illinois USA I cannot walk in the woods because it's over run with poison oak. I happen to be highly allergic. Before the oak spread I spent a lot of time on deer trails. I miss that but I can get it from online games with no itching involved. So I appreciate a realistic game with woods and same for crafting. I know how to craft a few things in real life. I came from a family of artists. But I can't sew. I'm not going to invest the money/time into learning how to sew. But if I can quickly make an outfit in a game for an avatar that's neat! I don't think there is a huge need for home spun clothes in real life anymore anyway. Unless you're a cosplayer or part of an anachronistic society.
I don't think there is a way to explain the joy of making shiz. No judgement on those who don't find it interesting.
People just have different preferences. Explaining joy .. even if the other person can understand intellectually .. is not going to change their preferences.
Personally, i don't play games to create .. i do that to destroy.
I hate bad crafting systems, too. But have you played any games with a good crafting system? Try A Tale in the Desert or Puzzle Pirates. Maybe even FFXIV, though that does have a stupid grind for a while until you get your crafting levels up some.
I hate crafting too.
I love having the ability to build individual stuff though.
But the boring grind to get there - ugh.
If I would make an own MMO, learning crafting would be limited to get one of many crafter classes per character, you would have to solve adventuring questlines and spent money to get crafting skill advancement, and the materials and recipes would drop from boss monsters that can only be killed by groups or raid forces, and you could learn only a limited amount of recipes, too.
This way everyone is motivated to do crafting (since so many different crafters are needed), and nobody has to waste too much time on it (but do adventuring which is way more enjoyable, and have to spend money they otherwise could spent on different things), and its clearly social (you need a guild to learn it, and you need lots of other crafters to succeed at it).
To me the fun in crafting is the one who keeps everything moving. I love being that guy who makes your day when you see 'that item' on the market. Who enchants or sharpens your <item here>. I love being the guy who looks at a new guild member or friend and says 'I can do better than that.' and gives him a full new outfit.
I thrive being the guy everyone knows to message, because he has all of the rare recipes. Want some endgame items? Yeah. I got your stuff right here champ.
The fun for me in crafting is having the cash to go and buy literally anything I want in the game, and have it impact my in game wallet less than a cup of coffee would in real life.
Crafting and control over the market is what makes the game fun for me. The monster and things I need to murder along the way, are just stops along my journey of complete economic control over a section of the market.
Crafting, like PvP, is one of those things that has been added haphazardly last second to most themeparks recently.
If you don't like one or the other, it may just not be for you, or you may have actually just never played a game with a decent metagame outside of geargrind and killing canned content for the millionth time.
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
well it sounds like swtor is the crafting type for u. u dont do squat. send ur companions out to gather or craft. mats can b in the bank so no need to carry them on u. no need to go to a crafting table or station. just stop and hit a few buttons and continue killing. easiest crafting u can get
nah ... Marvel Heroes is better. In TOR, you still have to send companions out, and manage them. In MH, you just donate your junk to level up, and make whatever you want and it is useful form day 1 (because it upgrades gear, not make them).
The problem with most MMORPGs is that crafting is an afterthought with endgame rewards being better than crafted rewards so why bother with crafting at all. I prefer games like EVE where crafting is meaningful and required to sustain a thriving economy, plus it's a non-combat PvP variant trying to best your competitors on the Market. Fallen Earth has a good crafting system with the need to make components then assemble those components. And of course SWG (yes I went there) had an excellent crafting system as it separated combat and crafting professions, there should be more games like that.
Why do I like crafting? Because I get bored of killing things all the time and exploring gives me something to do while gathering. We all like/dislike different things. I don't see the point of repeatedly grinding dungeons at end game just to get gear when it's more fun to craft it... or easier just to buy it. Each to their own...
It is not a problem, in fact, it is preferable, to those who don't care for crafting. And by the way majority of MMOs are designed, i think most don't care about crafting much.
That's his point. Why have it at all if they're going to put so little thought or effort into the system. Focus on what your game does well and leave the rest out.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Crafting was about helping people, getting rich, mastering the market, doing something besides combat. But now, its BiS or bust. Nevermind if crafters make 95% of the rest of the items in the game, if they can't make that top 5% gear, then its all fail. The worst part is so called "hardcore crafters" advocate this. Sad times. Fortunately, a few devs still get the unique aspects of what a good crafting system can offer.
Oh, i have no qualms if many games leave crafting out ...