I am thinking about trying to go with my Templar in Heavy armor and sword & board for an in your face healer.
I can use two sets of one hand and shield to have a full set of healing, cleansing and increased health regen. And also have a charge, shield bash for stuns as well as the crippling slash for a snare and decrease damage output on the mob.
I can still use dawn's wrath for solo/small group PvE while questing and shouldn't have too much of a problem. Just go back and forth between magicka and stamina skills. Put most of my points in magicka and use the passives of heavy armor for an increase in health regen and healing self.
Plan B will be a bow and light armor for healing, but won't know till I give it a try. Looking forward to giving it a try though. I think healing will be fun in ESO with all the options you can go with.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Hopefully ESOs combat system allows me to be a well rounded build or a tanky dps without punishing me for it like GW2. I won't play if I am going to be forced into running a max dps build.
In pvp you of course don't need to have the triad to be successful, but having a healer will absolutely give your group an advantage.
Pve is a different story. The group dungeons are hard when run through at the appropriate level. You have to have a tank and a healer, and the tank had better know how to actively block. If he doesn't, he'll die. You'll know when you have a good tank in the group.
Hell, there were pve solo dungeons for quests that were so hard at the appropriate level that many people were skipping until they leveled up some more. Granted it depends on what skills you've chosen, but still it was rough. I was standing outside one of the dungeons that people had to solo for a quest line, and there were four people that had just attempted it and some had tried it multiple times. They were all appropriate level for it, and none of them could complete it yet. We talked about how tough it was, and they decided they would gain a couple levels and come back to try it again.
I haven't tried the higher level dungeons, but other players have stated that there are boss mechanics that everyone has to actively block. If you don't you will die no matter if you're playing dps, tank, or healer.
pve dungeons are not meant to be zerged through. Personally I loved it, as I love a good challenge. Expect to die when first trying some of the pve dungeons out. Good support players will definitely stand out, but it will still be a good challenge for everyone.
Gotta say I had a different experience. I ran Grotto with an all DPS group after we couldn't find a healer. levels 10-15. Maybe level 11-15. I was the low level and I can't remember if I was 10 or 11. I could have been 12. it was a few beta weekends ago.I later ran (most recent beta weekend) it with a healer and I think it was harder since we lost DPS. Granted it was a different group and different players, but we were levels 13 - 16. Don't now how a DPS group will do in a higher level dungeon, but I found Grotto to be the hardest of all the stater dungeons. If we could DPS our way through Grotta (probably 4 wipes) I'm sure the group could run the other two a little easier.
Without having played much it is difficult to see how a healer can level a small range of heals as well as do enough DPS to tackle these solo dungeons.
It seems to me to be a healer you need adequate DPS and adequate healing to get on in pve.
Simply pitching up to 4 man dungeons with unlevelled heal spells via a fresh restoration staff equip doesnt sound fair on the rest of the group.
If you have enough levels between the main group dungeon content and skill points are sufficient I can see a solo player having time to level DPS and healing skills, otherwise they would need to group in pve outside dungeons as much as possible ? Perhaps doing world bosses, anchors over and over ?
First you must consider that having an ability slotted gives it experience gain. As a templar I had 3 damage abilities and 2 heals on my bar. I rarely healed while I was leveling but I had the abilities slotted to gain experience. Yes, there were some challenging solo encounters, but they were not impossible.
More damage abilities does not lead to more success. It is a resource management game. If you are doing damage with magicka, then your stamina is used to block, evade, and interrupt. If you are using both stamina and magicka to do damage, you will not have as much stamina for defensive play. The same concept is applied to healing. You don't need 5 healing abilities on your bar for your first dungeon.
Its not unfathomable to reserve a slot, or two, for skills that you want to gain experience in but may not necessarily use while soloing.
Ok but it is the second and third dungeon one needs to worry about too ?
Id immediately worry about people speccing 2 weps and ending up at the second dungeons with 2 weak spell bars because they spread themselves too thin over all their abilities.
In group pve contentId (perhaps naively) I still see a healing biased character needing (or wanting) a variety of healing spells at their disposal and largely CC or defensive abilities elsewhere.
I would see pugs being far more of a challenge in ESO that a trinity based game because I expect a lot of screwed up builds and people spreading themselves too thinly. It is all very well people having healing skills but if they have no significant experience healing they wont use them in combat any way ....
Obviously that goes for every class ...having to play hybrid characters takes time to get used to.
I don't think you have a very good grasp of how the system works if you think slightly suboptimal builds are going to be the big reason why groups fail.
Originally posted by Giffen The problem he is referring to is the targeting. In a massive zerg non-ae healing is supposedly nearly impossible due to the targeting mechanics in this game.
Or simply people aren't good at it yet and don't have the patience to learn a new skill.
Originally posted by Giffen The problem he is referring to is the targeting. In a massive zerg non-ae healing is supposedly nearly impossible due to the targeting mechanics in this game.
Or simply people aren't good at it yet and don't have the patience to learn a new skill.
Not true. There are multiple different types of heals. There are:
Ground-Target AoE: Simply place the circle and forget it.
Proximity AoE: Heals all allies around the caster.
Priority Multi-Targetting: Targets X number of nearby allies with the lowest health / aren't already being affected by your heal (regen is an example of this).
Priority Sinlge-Target: Targets the closest ally with the lowest HP.
There are good and bad components to all of these, but once you learn how to use them effectively, healing is really very easy in this game. It just requires players to think about combat more actively, and not try to play this like it's a tab-targetting game. It requires a lot more situational awareness, which is something a lot of players seem to have forgotten.
Originally posted by NetSage This game from what I've seen looks like it will be a nightmare for them. Especially healers. If this is true we'll just end up the zerg fest that is GW2 all over again.
What part makes you think it will be a zerg-fest. From a PvE perspective? or a PvP perspective?
I've heard quite a few people criticize games like GW2 for being 'too zergy', but in the dungeons the non-trinity system worked perfectly fine. It just required people to think about what they were doing. The bulk of GW2's zerg problems came from other aspects of the game design, which brought 100s of people together, and offered no incentive for people to separate.
That said, ESO has a soft-trinity, while GW2 didn't really have any. It's possible to tank, to main-heal, and to dps in ESO. It is more action-based, though. This means people will need to get used to dodging / blocking / etc. For example, some of the dungeons have bosses that will target random party members and deal massive damage if htey aren't mitigated. A certain amount of it can be healed through, but each party member has to be partially responsible for staying alive.
It works fine, but it's a different system of doing things. And as such you really can't try and play it like it's another WoW. It needs to be learned with an open mind.
Originally posted by NetSage This game from what I've seen looks like it will be a nightmare for them. Especially healers. If this is true we'll just end up the zerg fest that is GW2 all over again.
What part makes you think it will be a zerg-fest. From a PvE perspective? or a PvP perspective?
I've heard quite a few people criticize games like GW2 for being 'too zergy', but in the dungeons the non-trinity system worked perfectly fine. It just required people to think about what they were doing. The bulk of GW2's zerg problems came from other aspects of the game design, which brought 100s of people together, and offered no incentive for people to separate.
That said, ESO has a soft-trinity, while GW2 didn't really have any. It's possible to tank, to main-heal, and to dps in ESO. It is more action-based, though. This means people will need to get used to dodging / blocking / etc. For example, some of the dungeons have bosses that will target random party members and deal massive damage if htey aren't mitigated. A certain amount of it can be healed through, but each party member has to be partially responsible for staying alive.
It works fine, but it's a different system of doing things. And as such you really can't try and play it like it's another WoW. It needs to be learned with an open mind.
Way off topic, but if people didn't skip all the content in GW2's dungeons they became a lot harder. Can't remember if it was up or forward in TA (the path with the small lake) some elites we sprinted by were damn hard. Especially if you got too big of a pull.
In Grotto I think whoever was doing the most DPS would pull aggro (didn't have a tank). Sorry, that is incorrect. When I was using a healing staff I seemed to pull aggro. We'll see all sorts of group compositions (hopefully) be successful in ESO dungeons. Still, healing and support is muy valuable in Cyrodill when 4, 6, 8 man roaming.
From what some of the extended-beta testers have been saying, it actually sounds like it's going to be a "tank first" game instead of a "dps or gtfo" game. Soft-cap apparently is rather punishing to any attempts at trading survivability for damage.
Ok but it is the second and third dungeon one needs to worry about too ?
Id immediately worry about people speccing 2 weps and ending up at the second dungeons with 2 weak spell bars because they spread themselves too thin over all their abilities.
In group pve contentId (perhaps naively) I still see a healing biased character needing (or wanting) a variety of healing spells at their disposal and largely CC or defensive abilities elsewhere.
I would see pugs being far more of a challenge in ESO that a trinity based game because I expect a lot of screwed up builds and people spreading themselves too thinly. It is all very well people having healing skills but if they have no significant experience healing they wont use them in combat any way ....
Obviously that goes for every class ...having to play hybrid characters takes time to get used to.
You really shouldn't concern yourself with how others play the game. Make it your own experience, form your own group.
You haven't played beta so lets clear some things up;
-You don't need defensive skills. You can block at anytime, and dodge, all which use stamina as a resource.
-Skills don't level slow. If they are slotted they gain experience. You don't even have to use them, just have them slotted and anytime you gain experience, some of it will go to this ability.
-Skills don't have cool downs. You don't need 5 damage abilities to do damage. You don't need 5 heals to rotate on the group to keep them alive. They are all usable as long as you have the resource available.
Here is a video of a sorcerer healing a group if you watch up to the first boss he will explain how he is only using 2 heals and what they do.
Listen to his description of his abilities, healing is not a struggle. Pugs are always bad in any game if the content provides a significant challenge. I will advise you not to use the dungeon finder and maybe search for a party in your instance instead.
Comments
I am thinking about trying to go with my Templar in Heavy armor and sword & board for an in your face healer.
I can use two sets of one hand and shield to have a full set of healing, cleansing and increased health regen. And also have a charge, shield bash for stuns as well as the crippling slash for a snare and decrease damage output on the mob.
I can still use dawn's wrath for solo/small group PvE while questing and shouldn't have too much of a problem. Just go back and forth between magicka and stamina skills. Put most of my points in magicka and use the passives of heavy armor for an increase in health regen and healing self.
Plan B will be a bow and light armor for healing, but won't know till I give it a try. Looking forward to giving it a try though. I think healing will be fun in ESO with all the options you can go with.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Gotta say I had a different experience. I ran Grotto with an all DPS group after we couldn't find a healer. levels 10-15. Maybe level 11-15. I was the low level and I can't remember if I was 10 or 11. I could have been 12. it was a few beta weekends ago.I later ran (most recent beta weekend) it with a healer and I think it was harder since we lost DPS. Granted it was a different group and different players, but we were levels 13 - 16. Don't now how a DPS group will do in a higher level dungeon, but I found Grotto to be the hardest of all the stater dungeons. If we could DPS our way through Grotta (probably 4 wipes) I'm sure the group could run the other two a little easier.
Healer/support will be valuable in PvP for sure.
I don't think you have a very good grasp of how the system works if you think slightly suboptimal builds are going to be the big reason why groups fail.
Or simply people aren't good at it yet and don't have the patience to learn a new skill.
Not true. There are multiple different types of heals. There are:
Ground-Target AoE: Simply place the circle and forget it.
Proximity AoE: Heals all allies around the caster.
Priority Multi-Targetting: Targets X number of nearby allies with the lowest health / aren't already being affected by your heal (regen is an example of this).
Priority Sinlge-Target: Targets the closest ally with the lowest HP.
There are good and bad components to all of these, but once you learn how to use them effectively, healing is really very easy in this game. It just requires players to think about combat more actively, and not try to play this like it's a tab-targetting game. It requires a lot more situational awareness, which is something a lot of players seem to have forgotten.
What part makes you think it will be a zerg-fest. From a PvE perspective? or a PvP perspective?
I've heard quite a few people criticize games like GW2 for being 'too zergy', but in the dungeons the non-trinity system worked perfectly fine. It just required people to think about what they were doing. The bulk of GW2's zerg problems came from other aspects of the game design, which brought 100s of people together, and offered no incentive for people to separate.
That said, ESO has a soft-trinity, while GW2 didn't really have any. It's possible to tank, to main-heal, and to dps in ESO. It is more action-based, though. This means people will need to get used to dodging / blocking / etc. For example, some of the dungeons have bosses that will target random party members and deal massive damage if htey aren't mitigated. A certain amount of it can be healed through, but each party member has to be partially responsible for staying alive.
It works fine, but it's a different system of doing things. And as such you really can't try and play it like it's another WoW. It needs to be learned with an open mind.
Way off topic, but if people didn't skip all the content in GW2's dungeons they became a lot harder. Can't remember if it was up or forward in TA (the path with the small lake) some elites we sprinted by were damn hard. Especially if you got too big of a pull.
In Grotto I think whoever was doing the most DPS would pull aggro (didn't have a tank). Sorry, that is incorrect. When I was using a healing staff I seemed to pull aggro. We'll see all sorts of group compositions (hopefully) be successful in ESO dungeons. Still, healing and support is muy valuable in Cyrodill when 4, 6, 8 man roaming.
From what some of the extended-beta testers have been saying, it actually sounds like it's going to be a "tank first" game instead of a "dps or gtfo" game. Soft-cap apparently is rather punishing to any attempts at trading survivability for damage.
You really shouldn't concern yourself with how others play the game. Make it your own experience, form your own group.
You haven't played beta so lets clear some things up;
-You don't need defensive skills. You can block at anytime, and dodge, all which use stamina as a resource.
-Skills don't level slow. If they are slotted they gain experience. You don't even have to use them, just have them slotted and anytime you gain experience, some of it will go to this ability.
-Skills don't have cool downs. You don't need 5 damage abilities to do damage. You don't need 5 heals to rotate on the group to keep them alive. They are all usable as long as you have the resource available.
Here is a video of a sorcerer healing a group
if you watch up to the first boss he will explain how he is only using 2 heals and what they do.
Listen to his description of his abilities, healing is not a struggle. Pugs are always bad in any game if the content provides a significant challenge. I will advise you not to use the dungeon finder and maybe search for a party in your instance instead.