Originally posted by CactusmanX I always try to make myself in RPGs, some games make it easier than others, call it vanity or pride, but I think I am the coolest, and the real world is awesome, thats why games should reflect more reality but maintain the fun factor but anyways... Just one question is there a difference between Fantasy and High Fantasy
High fantasy is your typical elf/dwarf etc blahd with magic swords, quests, epic bad guys etc.
Low fantasy is a made up world, but without much if any magic, generally grittier.
Romantic Fantasy is psychic animals companions, social relationships and the bad guys are misunderstood rather than bad
Originally posted by darquenblade An Over the Edge MMO...holy CRAP that would be awesome. Damn near impossible, but awesome nonetheless =)An Unknown Armies MMO would be just as cool/disturbing
Both pretty much impossible.
Good to see some other TT gamers around.
You know what would make a good compromise setting between fantasy and better?
Iron Kingdoms/Warmachine
Actually, Over the Edge you could do, instanced Al Amarja's with a max of 100 players to each island, heavily scripted and updatable NPCs and a good core of guides with the ability to posess and RP through the various characters on the island.
The reason why fantasy dominates has to be because that was the literary genre that could be most easily transferred into multi-player gaming. So fantasy fans found it easier to design the early games than sci-fi fans.
Even today, sci-fi & other game designers struggle to come up with in-game professions/ classes that are not directly related to the definitive fantasy classes of tank, healer & caster.
But you can do away with all these say for a military game. In small special forces units like the British SAS you have one guy who is the sniper, another who is the medic and another who is the bomb guy. But you wouldn't need anyone who could cast the equivalent of magic.
Personally, I expect to see more action MMOGs along the lines of Planetside and few of these will be fantasy based.
Originally posted by Orkozi5 There's only a couple of historical MMORPG's out there and I for one really hope that's gonna change. I'm sick of cookie cutter swords'n'sorcery MMORPG's - they're all the same.
Damn, I didn't think I'd be taken seriously. I agree with Grimachu though, having written for chaosium, that ttrpg are way ahead of the video game industry. Mostly because with ttrpgs you can be WAY more creative. No one to bitch about the graphics.
I would like to say for the record I wasn't actually suggesting Over the Edge as an MMO, I think it'd be awesome but the industry isn't up to it yet, I was sugessting a game similar to it. I'd rather someone make an MMO that goes outside standard genres.
I've been gaming for a long time both on the pc and with ttrpgs, but I get bored with game after game of the same thing. The Tolkein-esk formula can only be abused so many times. . .
___________~____________ Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
Whilst I will prbably play DnL and Im actually looking forward to Vanguard..... overall Iv had my fill of Elves and Orcs and would welcome something fresh in terms of settings.
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Originally posted by Orkozi5 There's only a couple of historical MMORPG's out there and I for one really hope that's gonna change. I'm sick of cookie cutter swords'n'sorcery MMORPG's - they're all the same.
Fantasy is easy because it allows the developers to be a little creative while being mostly an understood genre - there's plenty of if around, so people know what to expect to find. Developers have existing rulesets and existing expectations about what kind of things could go on in the world (monsters, magic, armour, economy).
SciFi is essentially the same, substituting weaponry for swords, nanobots or drugs for magic spells and potions.
Any thing that is "real world" based is immediately harder because players know how real-world things work, and how to exploit them - if these things don't work the same way in the game world the players sometimes get peeved.
Forum signatures are stupid and annoying. I've turned mine off.
Originally posted by vqly There was a poll on the mmorpg home page recently of which type of mmorpg race you would mostly like to play, and the only choices were that from a fantasy settings. I wanted to vote other, but couldn't. I was curious to why there are so many mmorpgs with Fantasy settings (dragons/mage/orcs/elves/et al). Is it because of the traditional table top pencil and paper D&D games? How relevant is it now that the market is saturated with so many fantasy MUDs/MMORPGs?
There are four major reasons why there are tooo many "Sword & Sorcery" MMORPGs:
1. Officially, Sword & Sorcery stories were the first ones popularized worldwide. The Brother's Grimm, JRR Tolkien, and even further back, European myths (Achilies, Ajax, Hector, Jason and the Argunaughts, Hercules, Perseus, etc.....). This all came directly from Egyptian myths (Set, Zugg ((where the idea of Zeus came from)) Nut, Ra/Rah, Horus, Seth, Isis, Thoth, Anubis, Isis, Osiris, etc...)And this all came directly from Persian->Babylonian->Akkaidian mythics (Gilgamesh, Sidhartha, Anu, Marduk, Tiamat, Enlil, Ea, Ishtar, Enurta, etc...)
2. In modern times JRR Tolkien reached a worldwide audiance. He re-popularized Sword & Sorcery tales. European based Sword & Sorcery tales. From this we get our current ideas of Elves, Orcs, Trolls, Goblins, Humans, Dwarves, etc...
3. Dungeons and Dragons games. They further popularized Sword & Sorcery themes after Tolkien died. They built on what Tolkien started. They strengthend what Tolkien started.
4. Lord British. Aka Richard Garriott. He was the first one to adapt Sword & Sorcery themes to computer games. Back in the late 1970's with a game now known as Ultima 0. It was later followed with Ultima 1, Ultima 2, Ultima 3, Ultima 4, Ultima 5, Ultima 6, Ultima 7, Ultima 8, Ultima 9. It was the most successful computer game, and game series in computer history. Then he and Raph Koster made Ultima Online.
So that is how it all got started. One thing led to another, and now we have Sword & Sorcery-themed MMORPGs glutting the market. Ultima 0 led to other game makers using simular themes - Bard's Tale, Phantasi, Temple of Asph. In order of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th most successful computer game series in computer history. Years passed after Ultima 0, before non-Sword & Sorcery themed RPGs were attempted and made. One well known example is Auto Duel. (Successful Mad Max type game done in the mid 1980's). Another was Infiltrator. (It has everything Metal Gear Solid has, except it was done in the early/mid 1980's.)
In the MMORPG market, it was years, and years, and years, after Ultima Online that Anarchy Online got released - the first non-Swords & Sorcery themed MMORPG made.
I agree with you that there is a market for Sci-Fi MMORPGs. And other ideas for non-Sword & Sorcery themed games. But unfortunatly the moneymen dislike taking chances. They would rather make clones, or near-clones of existing games.
------------------------------
Sidenote: Unofficially, "sci-fi" myths and legends and stories existed before "sword & sorcery" stories. "sword & sorcery" stories came from "sci-fi" stories. Magic was simply a way ancient man described the ancient technology ancient beings had, that man could not understand. But that is another subject about ancient beings visiting our planet in their spaceships. (Heck in 1957 an army of spaceships flew over Washington, DC. US Airforce jets were sent to intercept them. I will leave it to everyone to google "UFO flyover washington dc" to find out how it ended.) Going into the many Bible verses that talk about spaceships. Going into the pyramids on Mars. Going into structures and other physical evidences on our planet of ancient beings who had "sci-fi" technology to make them. As Issac Asimov once said "Sci-Fiction has a loooong way to go before it catches up to Sci-Fact."
*EDIT*
I had a bit of free time to do some in depth research:
Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)
I have found out it was Arthur C. Clarke, and NOT Issac Asimov, who said that famous quote that I paraphrased. Or maybe Clarke simply quoted a new version? And I cannot find exactly where Asimov said what I think he said? Anyway, what Clarke said is the same thing.
Advanced technology is the same as magic. And in fact there is no way to distinguish between magic and advanced technology!!!! Thus science ficition is really science fact. And science fact is really lies and thus the real fiction. Science fact has a loooong way before it catches up to science fiction.
Fantasy is able to 'reach' more people. As a whole people want to play a game to suspend reality and enjoy themselves. I have never been able to really get into games such as Command and conquer even though I play Warcraft. Basically the same type of game but the difference lies in the weapons used, the presence of magic over teck, and the possibility to be something you can't in real life. I know alot of people will not agree with this but it's my opinion...
It's all in the like/dislike of the individual. I hated EVE online, when I play games like Final fantasy I only use sword/magic users and tend to stray away from anything that could be linked to the modern day. Oh well thats just me I guess
Comments
High fantasy is your typical elf/dwarf etc blahd with magic swords, quests, epic bad guys etc.
Low fantasy is a made up world, but without much if any magic, generally grittier.
Romantic Fantasy is psychic animals companions, social relationships and the bad guys are misunderstood rather than bad
Postmortem Studios
Roleplaying games to DIE for
Shop here
An Over the Edge MMO...holy CRAP that would be awesome. Damn near impossible, but awesome nonetheless
An Unknown Armies MMO would be just as cool/disturbing
Both pretty much impossible.
Good to see some other TT gamers around.
You know what would make a good compromise setting between fantasy and better?
Iron Kingdoms/Warmachine
Actually, Over the Edge you could do, instanced Al Amarja's with a max of 100 players to each island, heavily scripted and updatable NPCs and a good core of guides with the ability to posess and RP through the various characters on the island.
I'd love to see Sad Mary's Bar and Girl rendered
Postmortem Studios
Roleplaying games to DIE for
Shop here
The reason why fantasy dominates has to be because that was the literary genre that could be most easily transferred into multi-player gaming. So fantasy fans found it easier to design the early games than sci-fi fans.
Even today, sci-fi & other game designers struggle to come up with in-game professions/ classes that are not directly related to the definitive fantasy classes of tank, healer & caster.
But you can do away with all these say for a military game. In small special forces units like the British SAS you have one guy who is the sniper, another who is the medic and another who is the bomb guy. But you wouldn't need anyone who could cast the equivalent of magic.
Personally, I expect to see more action MMOGs along the lines of Planetside and few of these will be fantasy based.
Raymondo
Its pretty simple. People like fantasy more, so they make more fantasy mmorpgs.
Damn, I didn't think I'd be taken seriously. I agree with Grimachu though, having written for chaosium, that ttrpg are way ahead of the video game industry. Mostly because with ttrpgs you can be WAY more creative. No one to bitch about the graphics.
I would like to say for the record I wasn't actually suggesting Over the Edge as an MMO, I think it'd be awesome but the industry isn't up to it yet, I was sugessting a game similar to it. I'd rather someone make an MMO that goes outside standard genres.
I've been gaming for a long time both on the pc and with ttrpgs, but I get bored with game after game of the same thing. The Tolkein-esk formula can only be abused so many times. . .
___________~____________
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Raymondo
lets make a game like our real world with magic, that might be hot.....but not like neo-japan anime shit, grimey USA style.
can you hear it?
::magic::
Fantasy is easy because it allows the developers to be a little creative while being mostly an understood genre - there's plenty of if around, so people know what to expect to find. Developers have existing rulesets and existing expectations about what kind of things could go on in the world (monsters, magic, armour, economy).
SciFi is essentially the same, substituting weaponry for swords, nanobots or drugs for magic spells and potions.
Any thing that is "real world" based is immediately harder because players know how real-world things work, and how to exploit them - if these things don't work the same way in the game world the players sometimes get peeved.
Forum signatures are stupid and annoying. I've turned mine off.
All I know is that let's look at the goldmine gone bad SWG. That is why... no one can seemingly do it right.
Realmreaver formally of EQ, SWG, FFXI and WoW.
Malis/Pirotess of PSO.
Some named of Diablo 1 and 2
Grendel Kinguard of GW.
There are four major reasons why there are tooo many "Sword & Sorcery" MMORPGs:
1. Officially, Sword & Sorcery stories were the first ones popularized worldwide. The Brother's Grimm, JRR Tolkien, and even further back, European myths (Achilies, Ajax, Hector, Jason and the Argunaughts, Hercules, Perseus, etc.....). This all came directly from Egyptian myths (Set, Zugg ((where the idea of Zeus came from)) Nut, Ra/Rah, Horus, Seth, Isis, Thoth, Anubis, Isis, Osiris, etc...)And this all came directly from Persian->Babylonian->Akkaidian mythics (Gilgamesh, Sidhartha, Anu, Marduk, Tiamat, Enlil, Ea, Ishtar, Enurta, etc...)
2. In modern times JRR Tolkien reached a worldwide audiance. He re-popularized Sword & Sorcery tales. European based Sword & Sorcery tales. From this we get our current ideas of Elves, Orcs, Trolls, Goblins, Humans, Dwarves, etc...
3. Dungeons and Dragons games. They further popularized Sword & Sorcery themes after Tolkien died. They built on what Tolkien started. They strengthend what Tolkien started.
4. Lord British. Aka Richard Garriott. He was the first one to adapt Sword & Sorcery themes to computer games. Back in the late 1970's with a game now known as Ultima 0. It was later followed with Ultima 1, Ultima 2, Ultima 3, Ultima 4, Ultima 5, Ultima 6, Ultima 7, Ultima 8, Ultima 9. It was the most successful computer game, and game series in computer history. Then he and Raph Koster made Ultima Online.
So that is how it all got started. One thing led to another, and now we have Sword & Sorcery-themed MMORPGs glutting the market. Ultima 0 led to other game makers using simular themes - Bard's Tale, Phantasi, Temple of Asph. In order of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th most successful computer game series in computer history. Years passed after Ultima 0, before non-Sword & Sorcery themed RPGs were attempted and made. One well known example is Auto Duel. (Successful Mad Max type game done in the mid 1980's). Another was Infiltrator. (It has everything Metal Gear Solid has, except it was done in the early/mid 1980's.)
In the MMORPG market, it was years, and years, and years, after Ultima Online that Anarchy Online got released - the first non-Swords & Sorcery themed MMORPG made.
I agree with you that there is a market for Sci-Fi MMORPGs. And other ideas for non-Sword & Sorcery themed games. But unfortunatly the moneymen dislike taking chances. They would rather make clones, or near-clones of existing games.
------------------------------
Sidenote: Unofficially, "sci-fi" myths and legends and stories existed before "sword & sorcery" stories. "sword & sorcery" stories came from "sci-fi" stories. Magic was simply a way ancient man described the ancient technology ancient beings had, that man could not understand. But that is another subject about ancient beings visiting our planet in their spaceships. (Heck in 1957 an army of spaceships flew over Washington, DC. US Airforce jets were sent to intercept them. I will leave it to everyone to google "UFO flyover washington dc" to find out how it ended.) Going into the many Bible verses that talk about spaceships. Going into the pyramids on Mars. Going into structures and other physical evidences on our planet of ancient beings who had "sci-fi" technology to make them. As Issac Asimov once said "Sci-Fiction has a loooong way to go before it catches up to Sci-Fact."
*EDIT*
I had a bit of free time to do some in depth research:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. "I have found out it was Arthur C. Clarke, and NOT Issac Asimov, who said that famous quote that I paraphrased. Or maybe Clarke simply quoted a new version? And I cannot find exactly where Asimov said what I think he said? Anyway, what Clarke said is the same thing.
Advanced technology is the same as magic. And in fact there is no way to distinguish between magic and advanced technology!!!! Thus science ficition is really science fact. And science fact is really lies and thus the real fiction. Science fact has a loooong way before it catches up to science fiction.
Fantasy is able to 'reach' more people. As a whole people want to play a game to suspend reality and enjoy themselves. I have never been able to really get into games such as Command and conquer even though I play Warcraft. Basically the same type of game but the difference lies in the weapons used, the presence of magic over teck, and the possibility to be something you can't in real life. I know alot of people will not agree with this but it's my opinion...
It's all in the like/dislike of the individual. I hated EVE online, when I play games like Final fantasy I only use sword/magic users and tend to stray away from anything that could be linked to the modern day. Oh well thats just me I guess
Alcanan
"The True North Strong and Free"
"Faith Manages"