I have in lots of hours and i have played every type of builds up to the level i could and i enjoyed every one of them. The most fun one i found was a inferno mage with magica build and putting a lot of points into the top skill tree. If you are limited to only 4 builds then its not because the game don't let you its because you don't know how to play the different builds and how to get the most from them.
Maybe this game isn't for you and you should try a less demanding game for your skill level.
well, at least for the beta (with it's "lvl restriction" or missing 2nd zone,whatever) there were obviously more than one working specc.
my mage went full melee and lightning, which basically resultet in a thane (DAoC) like class. worked excellent :>
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Think some people are messing the point. it seems a low levels It's alright to play the fun build and try random things, but as you progress reaching higher levels and eventually max level, the fun builds will start becoming a pain. Either you die more often to only a few mobs or killing mobs seem to be taking much more time . So eventually you will find yourself playing the top 3 builds.
And i think the OP sees this as a problem because the "You can play and be what you want" factor was very appealing for many people, so if it's true that as you progress certain builds start to become useless, it could turn off quite a few players.
I don't see why you should buy it either. I bought it because I love it, you don't so you should go buy the game that you think will bring you the most enjoyment.
My local grocery store offers like 50 flavors of ice cream, 40 of them I would probably never buy but it never once occurred to me that nobody else should either, AND I spend zero amount of time standing in front of the ice cream case questioning people about why they would possibly buy what I wont. OMIGOD WTF are you buying PISTACHIO ice cream for???? It has no chocolate chips noob....
I really don't understand threads like this. I came out of the beta with a completely different opinion. If you have played the game to level 10, and come to the conclusion the game is lacking or just plain boring, find the game you enjoy and play that.
I for one had the best time in my life in an MMO since playing DAOC in 2001. I will definitely be there at launch...
^this
Also @ OP, no game with tons of builds will ever be truely balanced. A good example is path of exile. Theoreticly you have billions of viable possibilities in builds, but some are always stronger than others.
The interesting part is to make a build that works for you, and if the game changes, change your build with it if need be.
What was this about 4 builds one for each class again?
From what I've read from lvl 50 internal testers - none of those are very viable at 50.
They are playable sure - if you have a group that will carry you of course - but they are crap builds.
Now - that doesn't mean that they won't be fun to play for some players - if you have fun - that's all that matters in the end.
Now that's not to say that it won't be viable later on. The first thing that Zenimax is going to learn about is class/build balance. They really don't want 2 million mages running around their servers and 500 of everything else. Every class needs to have a place, and every class requires multiple balanced builds in order for that class to be playable. There will always be a damage/survivability trade-off, there always has been, but they will learn quickly that they can't promote their game as "Play how you want" if there are glaring balance issues. So I'd say play whichever class/build you'd like and whine and complain about balance until it gets changed That's usually how these things get done.
I don't see why you should buy it either. I bought it because I love it, you don't so you should go buy the game that you think will bring you the most enjoyment.
My local grocery store offers like 50 flavors of ice cream, 40 of them I would probably never buy but it never once occurred to me that nobody else should either, AND I spend zero amount of time standing in front of the ice cream case questioning people about why they would possibly buy what I wont. OMIGOD WTF are you buying PISTACHIO ice cream for???? It has no chocolate chips noob....
Could that be because when you are stood at the ice cream case, you are not, in fact engaged in a public discussion forum created to facilitate feedback, both positive and negative in relation to said ice cream and it's flavours?
If you actually compare appled with apples, the OP is completely valid and he is perfectly entitled to make his views known, good, bad or indifferent.
I fail to see where I said he could not do it. Everyone's opinion is completely valid and they'll hopefully act accordingly. I just really don't see the point, but he has every right to make it :-)
In the end this games target audience is the casual of casual player. Thus why it wont be sub based very long.
They want the type of people who will forgive bugs, forgive log in screens, forgive all the problems this game has and wants to play because they think it offers them a lot of cool things to do.
"Serious" players wont last long because beyond PvP (which will require a build that actually works) there isnt any 'challenge' in this game. When you can offer so many builds that 'arent any good' and they can still accomplish stuff the game isnt much of a challenge.
The performance of the game has been so bad that people have gotten away from the other things wrong with this game. Which cant be a positive thing thats for sure, when there are so many negatives to talk about that you loose focus on some to harp on others there are just too many things wrong.
But a 'casual' guy who doesnt know any better probably wont care, at least once its free.
In the end this games target audience is the casual of casual player. Thus why it wont be sub based very long.
They want the type of people who will forgive bugs, forgive log in screens, forgive all the problems this game has and wants to play because they think it offers them a lot of cool things to do.
"Serious" players wont last long because beyond PvP (which will require a build that actually works) there isnt any 'challenge' in this game. When you can offer so many builds that 'arent any good' and they can still accomplish stuff the game isnt much of a challenge.
The performance of the game has been so bad that people have gotten away from the other things wrong with this game. Which cant be a positive thing thats for sure, when there are so many negatives to talk about that you loose focus on some to harp on others there are just too many things wrong.
But a 'casual' guy who doesnt know any better probably wont care, at least once its free.
Wow I feel like we were playing different games. performance was fantastic... I guess experiences differ. I'm not saying you're wrong I just don't know why our experiences were so different. Hopefully they tweak it so you come away with a different feeling.
How long players will subscribe probably depend on how much content they can release after launch and if it's content the majority enjoy.
I personaly expect a new pve zone to quest in at max lvl, 4-5 new dungeons, more advanced crafting, and that has to atleast be announced within 2 months after release and all be out before fall 2014.
While I don't like the game itself complaining about class balance is futile. There will always be 3 or 4 specs that everyone says are the only ones that work and then another 10-20 that work just fine but require a non standard thought process to make work.
There will always be a build deemed as OP and it almost never is the most powerful build. Players like to pretend that things are a set in stone than they really aren't.
The beta was fun while it lasted. First time playing, and I found the graphics and gameplay good and enjoyed the varied types of quests they offered. I like the animations for cooking. Lots of recipes too.I'll wait a few after release,but I may pick it up. The snow here will prolly be on the ground till June so plenty of time to play I guess>
True you have no reason to buy it game is copy past old and boring. You shall play ArcheAge amazing game !!
(ok guys don't laugh I tricked him 1 less whiner in our great game by the way I lied about ArcheAge couldn't play that crap much in 15 min got lvl 9 and throw up on those farm vile zombies also is the most liniar game ever played just follow quest and high lighter road on minimap xD also skill are so dam restricted I made a mage with 1 hand wand and shield first I use mage DPS spell and when mob get close I bash him back with shield unfortunately after that i can't use mage spell for few sec xDD so broken class limitation!! But don't tell OP this will be our secret }: [ )
True about min maxing is so great so many details to combine and get a completely new thing but make sure OP don't find out we don't need cry babies in TESO ?
I've been in 3 beta weekends. What convinced me to buy this game was the fact that no matter what build, I was able to have fun and be effective.
I'm nor a min/maxer. In the last 10 years of MMORPG I usually ended up with the less effective build in the game at the beginning, because I just try a bit of everything until I find my way. I usually read up and ask help. Not with ESO.
I had great fun in PVP and I ended the beta being in the top 20 leaderbord of my campaign (to be completely honest, I was n. 19.. but it's still top 20!!! :-D ) I played a nightblade.
I really think min/maxing is a way to enjoy a game, but in ESO is not the ONLY way.
Think some people are messing the point. it seems a low levels It's alright to play the fun build and try random things, but as you progress reaching higher levels and eventually max level, the fun builds will start becoming a pain. Either you die more often to only a few mobs or killing mobs seem to be taking much more time . So eventually you will find yourself playing the top 3 builds.
And i think the OP sees this as a problem because the "You can play and be what you want" factor was very appealing for many people, so if it's true that as you progress certain builds start to become useless, it could turn off quite a few players.
I did not expect 80% of the readers and repliers of this thread to be involved in mid-late game content. If one has played MMO since more than 10years can easily predict where this is going.
I just love how defensive so so many players are about their favorite and upcoming game, while they have no indepth knowledge about it, rather uphold an immense illusionary bubble, an idea, a fragment of said title in their minds. Which does not reflect reality.
Like it or not: Min-maxing in an MMO is going to the CORE of the game mechanics. Testing it's FULL viability. One should ask oneself why one does not like this approach. I know exactly why because it easily uncovers the flaws of the game mechanics. And this is reality. And reality stings. The majority of gamers are playing games because reality stings, they flee into fantasy. But what if there are actually gamers who want to - and ultimatelly find - the real core mechanics of a game? Hate, hate and hate - because this reality crushes their illusion.
Funny isn't it? This is witch burning in 2014 :-) "DARE YOU TO SHOW ME THE TRUTH ABOUT THE IMAGINE I HAVE CREATED IN MY MIND!"
Thankfully, your hate-filled opinions are powerless.
In the end this games target audience is the casual of casual player. Thus why it wont be sub based very long.
They want the type of people who will forgive bugs, forgive log in screens, forgive all the problems this game has and wants to play because they think it offers them a lot of cool things to do.
"Serious" players wont last long because beyond PvP (which will require a build that actually works) there isnt any 'challenge' in this game. When you can offer so many builds that 'arent any good' and they can still accomplish stuff the game isnt much of a challenge.
The performance of the game has been so bad that people have gotten away from the other things wrong with this game. Which cant be a positive thing thats for sure, when there are so many negatives to talk about that you loose focus on some to harp on others there are just too many things wrong.
But a 'casual' guy who doesnt know any better probably wont care, at least once its free.
Exactly. Almost at the end of what has been posted so far and this nails it. Let me quote it.
I made a post about this on the ESO forums...that all I see are typical "ranged caster sorcerer", "stealthy dagger nightblade", 2hander heavy armor dragonknight, etc. Not once did I see a battlemage...sorc in heavy armor wielding a greatsword(other than myself). People, however, responded in my thread saying that this sort of thing runs wild in later levels. Ive never seen it.
Still, will you expect to see a greatsword wielding nightblade with stealth? Would something like that even be viable?
Is the game worth box price and a sub? Box price yes, sub...I dont know. My opinions definately improved `10 fold this weekend, I had a lot of fun. Just not sure it is worth a sub especially with no real endgame announced(other than PVP). Why am I paying 15 bucks per month? To do open world quests and exploration? I can do that in GW2. Give me real endgame content and the game might be worth 15/month
I made a post about this on the ESO forums...that all I see are typical "ranged caster sorcerer", "stealthy dagger nightblade", 2hander heavy armor dragonknight, etc. Not once did I see a battlemage...sorc in heavy armor wielding a greatsword(other than myself). People, however, responded in my thread saying that this sort of thing runs wild in later levels. Ive never seen it.
Still, will you expect to see a greatsword wielding nightblade with stealth? Would something like that even be viable?
Is the game worth box price and a sub? Box price yes, sub...I dont know. My opinions definately improved `10 fold this weekend, I had a lot of fun. Just not sure it is worth a sub especially with no real endgame announced(other than PVP). Why am I paying 15 bucks per month? To do open world quests and exploration? I can do that in GW2. Give me real endgame content and the game might be worth 15/month
What's real end game content, or do you even know?
"(...) drags itself down in less than 3 months. How very, very sad. And with it the entire TES franchise."
Yes, and if they'd release KotoR 3 today, no one would buy it because of TOR. You really think so?
No, I don't see this at all. TES is a very solid single player franchise. Fans of Oblivion, etc will still buy the next TES game.
who would even suggest that, I would preorder the next KotoR the day they anounced and I bailed out of TOR about 3 weeks in. I hate the TES games to be honest and I kinda like ESO, but I wouldnt expect any sane person to judge the TES games by ESO. Before people rail on that btw I don't think that ESO is very different in concept from the TES games but I just feel that TES games have combat like a MMORPG without the social component. I hold games that don't have the online social component to a higher polish and fluidity standard than MMO's and thats where i find TES games lacking.
There will be plenty of ways to make a crappy character, just as there will be plenty of ways to make a good one.
Also, I honestly don't think there's any way the OP played much PvP, if at all. The shear variety of builds out there at a high level will always keep you guessing, I assure you.
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
How is it that the diversity of weapons doesn't lead to more than one viable build per class in the end game? Do all of these builds use the same weapon?
It's very simple, if you don't like the game, don't buy it. There are 20 people that will for every whiner that won't buy it, plain and simple. Personally, I can't wait for this game and every single one of my friends that play MMO's and myself have already pre ordered. That's 11 people right there.
If you feel like the game isn't fun, don't buy, there is no need to spread misinformation and whine and stamp your feet like a 12 year old just because it's not exactly what you want.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Now a quick question to those who have more experience, when you say there are only 1 effective build per class, do you mean other builds are not viable or viable just not optimal?
Comments
well, at least for the beta (with it's "lvl restriction" or missing 2nd zone,whatever) there were obviously more than one working specc.
my mage went full melee and lightning, which basically resultet in a thane (DAoC) like class. worked excellent :>
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Think some people are messing the point. it seems a low levels It's alright to play the fun build and try random things, but as you progress reaching higher levels and eventually max level, the fun builds will start becoming a pain. Either you die more often to only a few mobs or killing mobs seem to be taking much more time . So eventually you will find yourself playing the top 3 builds.
And i think the OP sees this as a problem because the "You can play and be what you want" factor was very appealing for many people, so if it's true that as you progress certain builds start to become useless, it could turn off quite a few players.
I don't see why you should buy it either. I bought it because I love it, you don't so you should go buy the game that you think will bring you the most enjoyment.
My local grocery store offers like 50 flavors of ice cream, 40 of them I would probably never buy but it never once occurred to me that nobody else should either, AND I spend zero amount of time standing in front of the ice cream case questioning people about why they would possibly buy what I wont. OMIGOD WTF are you buying PISTACHIO ice cream for???? It has no chocolate chips noob....
^this
Also @ OP, no game with tons of builds will ever be truely balanced. A good example is path of exile. Theoreticly you have billions of viable possibilities in builds, but some are always stronger than others.
The interesting part is to make a build that works for you, and if the game changes, change your build with it if need be.
Now that's not to say that it won't be viable later on. The first thing that Zenimax is going to learn about is class/build balance. They really don't want 2 million mages running around their servers and 500 of everything else. Every class needs to have a place, and every class requires multiple balanced builds in order for that class to be playable. There will always be a damage/survivability trade-off, there always has been, but they will learn quickly that they can't promote their game as "Play how you want" if there are glaring balance issues. So I'd say play whichever class/build you'd like and whine and complain about balance until it gets changed
That's usually how these things get done.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I fail to see where I said he could not do it. Everyone's opinion is completely valid and they'll hopefully act accordingly. I just really don't see the point, but he has every right to make it :-)
In the end this games target audience is the casual of casual player. Thus why it wont be sub based very long.
They want the type of people who will forgive bugs, forgive log in screens, forgive all the problems this game has and wants to play because they think it offers them a lot of cool things to do.
"Serious" players wont last long because beyond PvP (which will require a build that actually works) there isnt any 'challenge' in this game. When you can offer so many builds that 'arent any good' and they can still accomplish stuff the game isnt much of a challenge.
The performance of the game has been so bad that people have gotten away from the other things wrong with this game. Which cant be a positive thing thats for sure, when there are so many negatives to talk about that you loose focus on some to harp on others there are just too many things wrong.
But a 'casual' guy who doesnt know any better probably wont care, at least once its free.
Wow I feel like we were playing different games. performance was fantastic... I guess experiences differ. I'm not saying you're wrong I just don't know why our experiences were so different. Hopefully they tweak it so you come away with a different feeling.
How long players will subscribe probably depend on how much content they can release after launch and if it's content the majority enjoy.
I personaly expect a new pve zone to quest in at max lvl, 4-5 new dungeons, more advanced crafting, and that has to atleast be announced within 2 months after release and all be out before fall 2014.
While I don't like the game itself complaining about class balance is futile. There will always be 3 or 4 specs that everyone says are the only ones that work and then another 10-20 that work just fine but require a non standard thought process to make work.
There will always be a build deemed as OP and it almost never is the most powerful build. Players like to pretend that things are a set in stone than they really aren't.
True you have no reason to buy it game is copy past old and boring. You shall play ArcheAge amazing game !!
(ok guys don't laugh I tricked him 1 less whiner in our great game by the way I lied about ArcheAge couldn't play that crap much in 15 min got lvl 9 and throw up on those farm vile zombies also is the most liniar game ever played just follow quest and high lighter road on minimap xD also skill are so dam restricted I made a mage with 1 hand wand and shield first I use mage DPS spell and when mob get close I bash him back with shield unfortunately after that i can't use mage spell for few sec xDD so broken class limitation!! But don't tell OP this will be our secret }: [ )
True about min maxing is so great so many details to combine and get a completely new thing but make sure OP don't find out we don't need cry babies in TESO ?
I've been in 3 beta weekends. What convinced me to buy this game was the fact that no matter what build, I was able to have fun and be effective.
I'm nor a min/maxer. In the last 10 years of MMORPG I usually ended up with the less effective build in the game at the beginning, because I just try a bit of everything until I find my way. I usually read up and ask help. Not with ESO.
I had great fun in PVP and I ended the beta being in the top 20 leaderbord of my campaign (to be completely honest, I was n. 19.. but it's still top 20!!! :-D ) I played a nightblade.
I really think min/maxing is a way to enjoy a game, but in ESO is not the ONLY way.
I did not expect 80% of the readers and repliers of this thread to be involved in mid-late game content. If one has played MMO since more than 10years can easily predict where this is going.
I just love how defensive so so many players are about their favorite and upcoming game, while they have no indepth knowledge about it, rather uphold an immense illusionary bubble, an idea, a fragment of said title in their minds. Which does not reflect reality.
Like it or not: Min-maxing in an MMO is going to the CORE of the game mechanics. Testing it's FULL viability. One should ask oneself why one does not like this approach. I know exactly why because it easily uncovers the flaws of the game mechanics. And this is reality. And reality stings. The majority of gamers are playing games because reality stings, they flee into fantasy. But what if there are actually gamers who want to - and ultimatelly find - the real core mechanics of a game? Hate, hate and hate - because this reality crushes their illusion.
Funny isn't it? This is witch burning in 2014 :-) "DARE YOU TO SHOW ME THE TRUTH ABOUT THE IMAGINE I HAVE CREATED IN MY MIND!"
Thankfully, your hate-filled opinions are powerless.
Exactly. Almost at the end of what has been posted so far and this nails it. Let me quote it.
I made a post about this on the ESO forums...that all I see are typical "ranged caster sorcerer", "stealthy dagger nightblade", 2hander heavy armor dragonknight, etc. Not once did I see a battlemage...sorc in heavy armor wielding a greatsword(other than myself). People, however, responded in my thread saying that this sort of thing runs wild in later levels. Ive never seen it.
Still, will you expect to see a greatsword wielding nightblade with stealth? Would something like that even be viable?
Is the game worth box price and a sub? Box price yes, sub...I dont know. My opinions definately improved `10 fold this weekend, I had a lot of fun. Just not sure it is worth a sub especially with no real endgame announced(other than PVP). Why am I paying 15 bucks per month? To do open world quests and exploration? I can do that in GW2. Give me real endgame content and the game might be worth 15/month
What's real end game content, or do you even know?
who would even suggest that, I would preorder the next KotoR the day they anounced and I bailed out of TOR about 3 weeks in. I hate the TES games to be honest and I kinda like ESO, but I wouldnt expect any sane person to judge the TES games by ESO. Before people rail on that btw I don't think that ESO is very different in concept from the TES games but I just feel that TES games have combat like a MMORPG without the social component. I hold games that don't have the online social component to a higher polish and fluidity standard than MMO's and thats where i find TES games lacking.
Pretty good article on high dps. Tthey aren't all cookie cutter, as a matter of fact it's quite the opposite.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/28/tamriel-infinium-building-the-best-dps-class-in-the-elder-scrol/
There will be plenty of ways to make a crappy character, just as there will be plenty of ways to make a good one.
Also, I honestly don't think there's any way the OP played much PvP, if at all. The shear variety of builds out there at a high level will always keep you guessing, I assure you.
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
It's very simple, if you don't like the game, don't buy it. There are 20 people that will for every whiner that won't buy it, plain and simple. Personally, I can't wait for this game and every single one of my friends that play MMO's and myself have already pre ordered. That's 11 people right there.
If you feel like the game isn't fun, don't buy, there is no need to spread misinformation and whine and stamp your feet like a 12 year old just because it's not exactly what you want.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
This post, this OP. Please. Have you played the game? one build per class? it really depends on what you want to do with your build.