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Why is racism ignored?
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Of course it is! That's like saying you can't hurt anyone in a crowded room when you fire a shotgun because the lights are off and you can't see them.
You don't have to know there are targets for your racism, for your words to affect them. Your point is absurd.
Exactly as I mentioned in the OP, the listener does not matter. Racism is directed at a race as a whole. (or other bigotry aimed at your culture or sexual orientation) You don't need to be specific for it to hurt a specific person.
Saying that racism doesn't exist if the racist doesn't know if their target is listening is an invalid argument.
No offense? You've already proven you have no understanding of what that even means. You think it's about someone being too 'fragile' to hear the ignorance and self-loathing babble of a racist? Are you too 'fragile' to survive a lynching? Are you too fragile to live through being burned at a stake? Are you too 'fragile' to make it through a gas chamber shower?
You speak of fragility as if you're invulnerable and that only speaks to your lack of comprehension and immaturity. These things happened to people. They are real. This IS the 21st century, which means it's time to stop allowing these things to happen and the root of the tree of that kind of hate is... WORDS.
Just for the record, I was not the target of the racism I saw. That does not absolve me of finding a resolution, or you for that matter.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Too late for what? Have you never heard the expression "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me?" Do you have a condition where it causes you physical harm when you read someone's stupid words?
The term "hate speech" should be removed from public discourse. It's just as idiotic as the speech it's being used to describe. I mean, seriously, you can say/type whatever you want about an individual based on who he in particular is, no matter how descriptively vile and hateful it is, and that isn't "hate speech," but someone makes generic statements about someone based on a category they belong to, and that needs it's own Special Label? Comments are no more or less hateful just because they target your skin color rather than your personal habits or political inclinations.
They don't need special categories for every type of idiotic and/or "offensive" speech. It is sufficient that there be a manner for reporting that a rule was broken. If we start assigning special categories to every particular type of comment that someone might find offensive, nobody would report anything, because they would have to scrolls through pages and pages of checkboxes to find the most appropriate one, and it would just be too much hassle for something you can handle with one use of /ignore.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
O.O
It's the INTERNET!
Fk, either grow up and deal with the world of anonymous slandering, or have mommy unplug the cable. It's been going on since the beginning of time and will continue until the end. By /reporting or /crying or /whining-in-forums, all you're doing is giving power to the person you're bitching about... kinda counter-intuitive in this day and age. If words from someone elses mouth somehow defines your personal self-worth, you have issues, not them.
When someone tries to hack a game company, they should just /report it to the police and /ignore the hacking.
Banning their account and writing new security code only gives them power.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Faction warfare mmos (most mmos) are inherintly racist by design. Are you surprised that there are some overtly racist people who play overtly racist fantasy games? I don't think the problem lies directly on moderation, but on the approach to game design in the overwhelming majority of these games.
It's not even in the same league. One is an international crime. The other is not, it's just frowned upon by most people in society.
That's seriously comparing apples and oranges there.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
And yet they both appear in the company's EULA. Making them equal in the eyes of the authority in this case; the game company.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Okay.. this is going to be my last post on this matter because you are obviously on some justice parade. You can't stop ignorance... I can assure you to the end of time, people are going say something you or a large group of people are not going to agree with and that it might be the most hateful thing you ever heard.. but its going to be okay. I think there is enough education going around that people will shrug it off. Asking someone is if they are too "fragile" to survive a lynching is absurd. I think the person saying that you are being "fragile" is in the right. They obviously live in today's society where if someone is saying something racist on the internet, they shrug it off because it really means nothing. You can't be bothered by something an imaginary person says.. because.. that's just silly. If someone is actually offended, then they need to gain more confidence... and Im not 100% on this.. but if someone in a video game tried to incite a lynch mob.. no one is going to help them... and if someone does, then they will deal with the consequences of it. In before "you gotta be proactive instead of reactive."
Also.. I have encountered racism first hand multiple times while growing up and its silly to me that you are trying to stop internet racism.. but I wish you luck on your personal "war on drugs."
It's even farther off than that.
What does getting mad solve ? How can you change that person in any way ? how can the game company change that person ?
All you can do to them is report them so the company can kick them out of the game...that's all they can do.
If no one was offended by the comments and just thought the guy was an idiot and ignored him...what has he really accomplished ?
That does not make them equal. A game company is not a governing body that makes law. Sure they control their own tiny space on their game world, but real life laws take priority over their EULA over their virtual space. It's happened time and time again.
Theft is punishable by law, Racism is not, however sad that may actually be. I'm not defending racists by any means, I just think it's really not that any company is going to deal with it when the tools for players to deal with it are already in place, regardless of EULA.
All trying to deal with people spouting racism in chat will do is back up their CSR staff with calls of being banned unjustly, requesting refunds, using manpower and hours of time and labor to deal with something they give the customer the ability to deal with in a much more timely and efficient manner.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Sticks and Stones may break my bones...but stupid ignornant people spamming a chat in an online game will never hurt me.
We seriously need to be teaching this in schools now days...it matters more now than it ever did.
And breaking into a network compared to name calling on the net?......
That is like comparing the schoolyard bully to the rapist/serial killer breaking into your home.
Everyone here is just so accepting, you apparently weren't around in the early days of MMORPG's when in game moderator's walked the earth.
My first MMORPG was the US version of Lineage 1, and they had an active moderation team that literally would appear in game if someone was reported as griefing and kill them on the spot.
Which let anyone near them loot any of their stuff that might have dropped, a problem in particular for any red players, but even white players might lose an item if their karma score or whatever it was called wasn't high enough. (or they didn't have enough candles in their backpack, those how played know what I'm talking about)
They also monitored the global chat and trade channel, which as I recall you had to be like level 30 or 35 (not an easy feat btw) before you could even use them.
If you reported someone in game for chat misbehavior (even discussing playing another MMORPG title was forbidden) you could expect to be chat locked for some period of time, and for gross offenses, your account was perma-banned.
How do I know? My accounts were perma-banned when I left because they also had these in game scrolls that you could write stuff on, and then drop on the ground anywhere you pleased, and they would stay their for a few weeks. So I dropped 50 or so scrolls telling folks I was moving over to DAOC and that got both of my accounts banned, even though I only used one to do the deed.
In game moderation is actually the answer to improve player behavior, and I'd literally pay a higher sub fee if a company offered servers that had it.
BTW, wasn't all bad, sometimes the in game moderators ran special events such as scavenger hunts or send a bunch of high level npc's rampaging through a town, though not nearly as often as I would have liked.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
the "I'm offended" card.
I'm offended by too many people pulling this card at every possible occasion
Your point specifically says "lower someone's worth in eyes of others". In order for you to lower my worth in the eyes of others based on race, others need - at the very least - to know that i belong to that race.
An example for you. For this example, let's use the "blue" race of humans. Let's say that "smurf" is a derogatory term for people of the blue race.
Now, you say to the general chat channel "all smurfs are so stupid they shouldn't even be allowed to vote!"
So being a blue person, this may be offensive to me. But there is no way that anyone that reads that remark will have a lower opinion of ME character in the game. Because - even if they decide to share your stupid racist opinion, even then - nobody knows to connect that comment to me. Because in the game, i am not blue, i am not a smurf, i am a Ratonga. Unless i tell people. And the second i make the choice to tell people, i make the choice to engage in the discussion - a discussion that has no place in the game world in the first place.
If you insist on using the stupid "crowded room with a shotgun" analogy, then what you're describing is equivalent of someone pulling out a shotgun and saying "hey, i am idiot with a shotgun, i will shoot anyone that wants to get shot. If you want to get shot, please put up your hand, otherwise leave". If you decide to put up your hand, it doesn't justify you getting shot, but it really isn't the brightest thing to do if your goal is to avoid getting shot.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
So, a person saying stupid things in chat, which can literally be removed from your screen with one command, is going to cause some deep emotional harm because it's going to bring to mind something truly horrible that someone read about in a history book, which happened to someone with some superficial cosmetic similarities to the reader?
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
what can i say? People can be flaky.
I suppose people like that may not be suited for a life with the internet because they may get emotionally harmed just by landing on the wrong page.
Justice? You mean like you saying the crime should be ignored? That the best resolution also just happens to be the easiest?
This is just another word you don't comprehend.
Not trying to change the world, just trying to make in-game MMO chat a friendlier place. Lets not forget the original post of the thread, and not try to expand the argument past the focus of the thread in an attempt to obfuscate the point.
It'll be okay for those too weak to fight? It'll be okay for those too lazy to fight?
I just want to get your personal point of view on why you give up so easily.
No, I think it's directly to the point of this thread. Are you too fragile to hear someone criticize you personally by calling you an idiot? Are you too fragile to listen to someone make fun of the killing and injustice that has followed your people for years, decades, or centuries?
See the difference? no, of course you don't.
You said it, don't pretend you're being objective.
What was imaginary about American slavery? What was imaginary about the holocaust? What was imaginary about women being marginalized? Saying any of this is 'imaginary' is not only revisionist but possibly serving a far more nefarious agenda.
Confidence in the face of organized bigotry? You're really displaying your lack of experience with it.
Anonymous MMO players wouldn't start a lynch mob? Right...
Perhaps you should re-read my OP. I'm talking about changing the way chat functions in MMOs.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
It amazes me there is opposition to the original premise of: racism has no place in the MMO community and why is it not being actively fought against? I'm inclined to believe that some of the people so vehemently arguing against the OP may be the exact sort of people the premise wants to fight? Methinks you doth protest to much.
It's not complicated. Bigotry creates a toxic environment for people. It's not fun to feel unwelcomed. Game companies recognize this fact, because as has been stated previously, they include language in their EULAs stating it won't be tolerated. Game companies function to make money. People who don't feel welcome end up not spending money on that game. It's in the company's best interest to be inclusive to all.
Eventually that horrible community the game companies enable drives away business.
Anecdote: I had two WoW subs myself, a sub for my son, and a sub for my niece. I got a sub for my girlfriend to introduce her to the game. Everything was fine, I showed her how to use the /ignore button, and then a racist and sexist series of exchanges on Trade made her cringe and we had a long talk about it. I told her how awful the community was and that I pretty much kept to myself and a couple of close friends and she asked me, "Why do you spend all that money to keep to yourself?"
I didn't have an answer for her.
Why do we give these companies our money to enjoy a social (allegedly) game when we keep to ourselves and have to fill our ignore lists with names to keep immature little cowards at bay?
So Blizzard loses five monthly subs from my family and I. Does that really matter to Blizzard? Not in the slightest. I have to hope it adds up over time. Companies that aren't Blizzard really can't afford to lose people due to this issue.
It doesn't have to be so toxic. Even a little nod to doing something about the foulness would help.
I'd rather have educated and well informed people than blissfully ignorant people.
It's not like we can protect everyone anyway, so individuals should have the intellectual tools to protect themselves against other ignorant people - otherwise they will just end up like "them".
That said, I believe that most company will act on report of discrimination (skin, religion, gender, you name it). This is taken very seriously, as it should be.
Also normally, when you call these people out on their BS publicly and tell them they have to stop, most will stop (not without throwing a last "dare", but you know you've won then).
Much of this thread and your post seems to put the onus on the ones being subjected to the racism, not the racist. I'd rather them educated than blissfully ignorant. The /ignore feature makes us all blissfully ignorant of the problem. While on the other hand, having your account warned, punished, and then banned as I suggested in my OP, goes directly to informing the racists that their behavior will not be tolerated. Perhaps it would leak into their daily lives as well, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. At least the problem would be laid at their feet and not the victims.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
There is the problem with your whole premise: Words don't make victims. Words can't harm anyone unless they are giving the aggressor the power to do so over themselves.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Racism is ignored because the vast majority of players and GMs dont give a damm about what a stupidy person types in chat, showing his stupidity to everyone. The vast majority either ignores, dont giving it the attention it dont deserves, or has more important things to worry about, since racial insults are only WORDS that cant do any harm that is out of the control of the reader/hearer.
Maybe the OP is worried about the others opinion about his race, but he shouldn't because:
1- The vast majority of people dont share the racist opinion of the offender and dont care to it, the same way people dont care to people that says "the sky is pink".
2- The minority of people that share any amount of the racist opinion are stupid too, and you obviously dont care about them, right? You aren't obviously trying to impress or be friend of this kind of people.
3- The chances that ingame (or internet) racial remarks become REAL harms in the REAL world are very tiny in this time we live. I dont believe a racial comment in the internet will make people of the offended race lose their jobs, be impeded of enter certain places or that it will start a lynch or genocide movement against them.
Well, for any existing and comfortably installed problem you have to act in two parts: immediate reaction and future prevention.
I don't believe "ignoring" someone should be the first reaction personally, as I said, people should call out those guys publicly on chat while reporting them (though I'm pretty sure that if the "cleaning team" doesn't come for another 4 hours, I'd rather ignore the individual too than listening to them for hours).
And again, I haven't seen a single game not tackling those issues as much as they can. This is a big taboo and extremely bad press for any company to let those individual proliferate so just from a marketing standpoint it wouldn't be allowed anyway.
Now, I don't think it is possible to create a chat filter for this issue since they are ban-able ideas expressed with non-banable words. And fortunately, there isn't a thought police yet, so we have to wait for those individuals to "speak up" before we can get them reported and banned.