It doesn't need a progression/leveling system to be fun. If the combat is fun and the incentives are there to keep playing, then it will work.
My personal issue with Cyrodiil is the lack of visual feedback and rewards for direct actions; Objective claims, player kills, etc. You get a mail send to you every so often with a single piece of gear, but that seems to be the only reward other than alliance points (which, again, lack visual feedback, I can't tell when I'm earning them).
That's my issue with some of the questing in general. You kill a boss at the end of a quest after a really great fight, then nothing. No looting, no dramatic music, no bells. You just turn in the quest for the delayed reward and the rest of the story.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Randomly getting ganked or chased around makes trying to do high reward pve stuff have that extra element to it ("i could make a mint doing this .. but have to watch out for crazy bastages") is what makes eve fun in some ways ... developing a hatred for "pirates" adds game content that otherwise would be forced upon the dev writers .. I am always going to hate a real person behind in game actions than those of a scripted npc.
Doing PvE in the AvA zone will have elements of (a) and (b) and i hope they do stuff to make the PvE in the zone be reallly high reward - to attract people to interact with it, drawing the type (b) people in to try and ruin their day.
This type of behavior is what will hurt the PvE crowd the game is hoping to attract. If I find to meet my PvE goals, I need to do PvP content, that will turn off a not so insignificant part of the population. As it is, I expect to see griefers at most of the skyshard locations just to harass people trying to complete them.
Maybe they can implement a static non PvP version of Cyrodill to satisfy the PvE completionist types.
To play devil's advocate i would counter this is exactly the kind of thing that makes for good pvp.. for example .. the pvp'er knowing their fellow alliance pve'rs need access to pve content will have to take and hold the territory where within is said pve content. It will give the pvp'er a reason to pvp other than just for fun of it. Also as a long time "carebear" who likes / liked to do pve .. i understand the dislike of griefers - been there done that got killed and didnt get a tshirt. But over the years i found that without that extra threat pve became more and more boring .. uneventful .. I didnt want to always get griefed .. but once a while a close call or even a loss made the game more fun. It is a multiplayer game, and it is challenging and interesting to play against other players .. not just next to them.
Trying to get all the pve stuff in the pvp zone is going to be a challenge .. but i think a good one .. not a impossible task - but one where you will have to be on your toes and truly get a sense of accomplishment when you complete parts of it.
Lastly i know no one wants the fun of others to come at their expense ... but thats what makes a pvp world go round .. offer yourself up to the game gods once and a while, satisfy the blood lust of some poor basement dwelling creature and they will keep playing - providing content for others .. making the game better .. even though they are killing you once and while.
Final arguement for a little pvp with your pve - which usually comes from the avid rabid pro pvp crowed, but i have learned the mantra over the years, is for us carebears to come ready to fight .. you want to get a peice of pve content - but know its gona be camped .. then bring 10 friends .. have a fun fight .. bait or just kill the campers .. pvp'ers have fun, pve'ers get their content .. everyone is happy.
Alliance Points are not only a currency, they also contribute to your Alliance Rank that you level up through AvA. Alliance ranks are persistent and not unlike Realm Ranks from DAoC, even if they don't have the same impact on your characte.
I find it surprising that someone would write an article about DAOC Realm Ranks and the ability purchases based on attaining those RRs being a key contributor to retention, while at the same time ignoring the vastly superior and endless Skill Point system this game has... not to mention that we already know of their plans to increase the available skill lines--Dark Brotherhood and Thieve's Guild being just the first 2 of many.
There is much more potential here for creating an endless progression system much more compelling than DAoC ever had with the added kicker that those SPs are not totally dependent on PVP as was the case in DAoC.
You got to think it through before jumping to conclusions.
Plans, wishes, ideas, potentials... haven't we heard that before?
"We have hundreds of new planets already in the making."
- Bioware
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
There will be morphs for morphs. Thats some of the Content, there are benefits of winning and controlling keeps, Economy.. as it should be. Rank, well you get skillpoints for rank up. and new pvp skill lines will be coming, so theres plenty of progression. Even crafting requires you to run in cyrodil at lvl 50.
People should learn to lean back abit, and not hunker on beta impressions for a not yet released game. When the game comes out, if it fails it fails. if it succeeds it succeeds.
Looking at the dayli mails we defiantly know which games features the most in forums.
So the interest is there.
Also when the game arrives yourl feel more with your character since, when you know a char wipe is coming. well. You burn out fast.
People that say playing pvp for the fun of it dont look further then their nose... How long can one play pvp untill it becomes boring ?
Their should be gear upgrades or gear skins to keep the fight going. pvp isnt going to last long when the honeymoon is over and you just get sick of the littlew things you dint even bother with when it was still fun.
There should be rewards to keeo you going, doesnt matter if its just cosmetic or titles or real gear upgrades and skill points. Just doing pvp for the fun of it and you see empty cyrodill in no time.
People that say playing pvp for the fun of it dont look further then their nose... How long can one play pvp untill it becomes boring ?
Their should be gear upgrades or gear skins to keep the fight going. pvp isnt going to last long when the honeymoon is over and you just get sick of the littlew things you dint even bother with when it was still fun.
There should be rewards to keeo you going, doesnt matter if its just cosmetic or titles or real gear upgrades and skill points. Just doing pvp for the fun of it and you see empty cyrodill in no time.
Good job dude, you just pointed out all the stuff ESO has. :P
Titles. It has those
Skillpoints. It has those
Gear Upgrades. It has those, buyable for fp and getting in mail for archivements.
With Gearupgrades comes cosmetics, and also the fact of emporership gives a cosmetic to.
Economics in controlling most keeps, makes a larger trading market for that faction
You start with 2 skill lines for PVP but i unlocked one extra, and theres prob gonna be more.
Rank System. be the best?
And for crafting. All lvl 50 resources are in cyrodil. Chance of getting Gold items in mail for pvp archievements, and therefor getting yellow craftupgrades. And "this is just a rumor, and not stated yet" upcoming pvp only crafting gems for pvp threats, that can only be learned by researching cyrodil dropped gear.
People that say playing pvp for the fun of it dont look further then their nose... How long can one play pvp untill it becomes boring ?
Their should be gear upgrades or gear skins to keep the fight going. pvp isnt going to last long when the honeymoon is over and you just get sick of the littlew things you dint even bother with when it was still fun.
There should be rewards to keeo you going, doesnt matter if its just cosmetic or titles or real gear upgrades and skill points. Just doing pvp for the fun of it and you see empty cyrodill in no time.
What I don't understand is how a trinket makes something more fun, great a new piece of armor, or new word to place in my name. Sorry the fun is in the activity to me, the trinket is pretty much pointless after about 3 seconds IMO. Teh true reward comes from victory against a larger group or something like that for me, holding a keep against odds heavily not in your favor. That sort of stuff. The progression comes from getting better at PVP for me, improving my knowledge and skill in the game mechanics.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
first off in ESO your end goal for the ridiculous hardcore pvp player is to be the emperor. You dont just get a rank n title but a new skill tree only available if you become emperor. if I am not mistaken for those who participated their faction would also get a new skill set. Its on their website
also I find it very bias to give the hammer fall on a game that isnt even launched yet.
there is this whole bunch of people whom are bashing ESO for some reason or another. Most are an result of over thinking of some hypotical reason or unrealistic benchmarks
I find it surprising that someone would write an article about DAOC Realm Ranks and the ability purchases based on attaining those RRs being a key contributor to retention, while at the same time ignoring the vastly superior and endless Skill Point system this game has... not to mention that we already know of their plans to increase the available skill lines--Dark Brotherhood and Thieve's Guild being just the first 2 of many.
There is much more potential here for creating an endless progression system much more compelling than DAoC ever had with the added kicker that those SPs are not totally dependent on PVP as was the case in DAoC.
You got to think it through before jumping to conclusions.
Plans, wishes, ideas, potentials... haven't we heard that before?
"We have hundreds of new planets already in the making."
- Bioware
Oh look! You worked in ESO = SWTOR into the topic... how original!
Are you saying there won't be a DB or Thieve's guild and their skill lines? How much money are you willing to put on it?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I liked ESO untill spending some time PVPing, toally turned me off. Gets old REALLY fast. No Arena no Bg's just a big dumb zerg. Never should have let this enter the game, ESO's biggest mistake imo.
I would have much rather a PVE centric game, after GW2 and ESO I hate the idea of this kind of pvp.
This is about designing a big endgame theme park pvp map that never needs new content.
I find it surprising that someone would write an article about DAOC Realm Ranks and the ability purchases based on attaining those RRs being a key contributor to retention, while at the same time ignoring the vastly superior and endless Skill Point system this game has... not to mention that we already know of their plans to increase the available skill lines--Dark Brotherhood and Thieve's Guild being just the first 2 of many.
There is much more potential here for creating an endless progression system much more compelling than DAoC ever had with the added kicker that those SPs are not totally dependent on PVP as was the case in DAoC.
You got to think it through before jumping to conclusions.
Plans, wishes, ideas, potentials... haven't we heard that before?
"We have hundreds of new planets already in the making."
- Bioware
Oh look! You worked in ESO = SWTOR into the topic... how original!
Are you saying there won't be a DB or Thieve's guild and their skill lines? How much money are you willing to put on it?
I believe in Jesus.
With that my reservior to believe in the unseen is entirey depleted. So if they add it all, good. But that requires the revenue even lasts long enough. I believe it when I see it.
And the Good Lord forbade me to bet, btw.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by ElirionLoth Did DAOC have the PvP rank system when it launched?
If I recall correctly, Realm Rank points were introduced after the game launched. As an early adopter of DAoC, I seem to remember RR being introduced in a Content Update Patch.
This sort of makes the original poster's claim a moot point considering that I have no doubts everyone at Zenimax wants to see The Elder Scrolls Online succeed. I highly doubt they'll be sitting around resting on their laurels, tipping a champagne glass in each other's direction any time soon
In the past couple of Weekend Beta events I participated in, I was surprised to find myself more deeply engaged in the experience than I originally expected. That's not to say TESO is a "perfect" experience yet, but as a former Dark Age of Camelot fan (pre-ToA) I could see DAoC's influences in many aspects of TESO. I expect to see plenty of content updates in TESO's future that will hopefully shape it into something that people, especially old fans of DAoC, will love.
some people on here are acting like this game has been out for 6 months or a year, instead of realizing this game hasnt even been released yet. Most MMO's dont have a lot of what the OP stated in game at launch, Developers add game content as the game evolves, and the player base evolves.. The OP is also thinking PVP is the ONLY thing to do in the PVP zone. as one poster wrote, there are 16 dungeons, PVE content, and a host of other activities to do in Cyradill, not JUST PVP. ZOS has stated they will be reading player feed back and adding to the game what the player base would like to see in game. That includes Arena's and dueling. People on here are acting like ZOS is going to keep what they have now for PVP and they are done with it.
this game will have A LOT more to offer than just PVP end game. they will have adventure zones, they are adding a justice system, they are adding the thieves guild and the dark brotherhood, and those are just what we know about. How about we wait at least the first 6 months, then suggest good options for ZOS to add to the game.
AP points in ESO will buy more things, there will be more skills and whatever else carrot they can create. The game just launched. Dude needs to get over his lost love affair with DAOC. We all have fav games of the past and that experience we hope to relive. Give it a chance. If the game is the same by end of year, then we got an abandon ship situation.
Comments
That's my issue with some of the questing in general. You kill a boss at the end of a quest after a really great fight, then nothing. No looting, no dramatic music, no bells. You just turn in the quest for the delayed reward and the rest of the story.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
To play devil's advocate i would counter this is exactly the kind of thing that makes for good pvp.. for example .. the pvp'er knowing their fellow alliance pve'rs need access to pve content will have to take and hold the territory where within is said pve content. It will give the pvp'er a reason to pvp other than just for fun of it. Also as a long time "carebear" who likes / liked to do pve .. i understand the dislike of griefers - been there done that got killed and didnt get a tshirt. But over the years i found that without that extra threat pve became more and more boring .. uneventful .. I didnt want to always get griefed .. but once a while a close call or even a loss made the game more fun. It is a multiplayer game, and it is challenging and interesting to play against other players .. not just next to them.
Trying to get all the pve stuff in the pvp zone is going to be a challenge .. but i think a good one .. not a impossible task - but one where you will have to be on your toes and truly get a sense of accomplishment when you complete parts of it.
Lastly i know no one wants the fun of others to come at their expense ... but thats what makes a pvp world go round .. offer yourself up to the game gods once and a while, satisfy the blood lust of some poor basement dwelling creature and they will keep playing - providing content for others .. making the game better .. even though they are killing you once and while.
Final arguement for a little pvp with your pve - which usually comes from the avid rabid pro pvp crowed, but i have learned the mantra over the years, is for us carebears to come ready to fight .. you want to get a peice of pve content - but know its gona be camped .. then bring 10 friends .. have a fun fight .. bait or just kill the campers .. pvp'ers have fun, pve'ers get their content .. everyone is happy.
i've been harping same thing regarding open war pvp.
what makes ppl pvp is the game need to have something we want belong to opposition. if we took it they want it back.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Plans, wishes, ideas, potentials... haven't we heard that before?
"We have hundreds of new planets already in the making."
- Bioware
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
There will be morphs for morphs. Thats some of the Content, there are benefits of winning and controlling keeps, Economy.. as it should be. Rank, well you get skillpoints for rank up. and new pvp skill lines will be coming, so theres plenty of progression. Even crafting requires you to run in cyrodil at lvl 50.
People should learn to lean back abit, and not hunker on beta impressions for a not yet released game. When the game comes out, if it fails it fails. if it succeeds it succeeds.
Looking at the dayli mails we defiantly know which games features the most in forums.
So the interest is there.
Also when the game arrives yourl feel more with your character since, when you know a char wipe is coming. well. You burn out fast.
People that say playing pvp for the fun of it dont look further then their nose...
How long can one play pvp untill it becomes boring ?
Their should be gear upgrades or gear skins to keep the fight going.
pvp isnt going to last long when the honeymoon is over and you just get sick of the littlew things you dint even bother with when it was still fun.
There should be rewards to keeo you going, doesnt matter if its just cosmetic or titles or real gear upgrades and skill points.
Just doing pvp for the fun of it and you see empty cyrodill in no time.
So was it annual or weekly?
Just curious
Good job dude, you just pointed out all the stuff ESO has. :P
Titles. It has those
Skillpoints. It has those
Gear Upgrades. It has those, buyable for fp and getting in mail for archivements.
With Gearupgrades comes cosmetics, and also the fact of emporership gives a cosmetic to.
Economics in controlling most keeps, makes a larger trading market for that faction
You start with 2 skill lines for PVP but i unlocked one extra, and theres prob gonna be more.
Rank System. be the best?
And for crafting. All lvl 50 resources are in cyrodil. Chance of getting Gold items in mail for pvp archievements, and therefor getting yellow craftupgrades. And "this is just a rumor, and not stated yet" upcoming pvp only crafting gems for pvp threats, that can only be learned by researching cyrodil dropped gear.
Theres plenty to aim for in PVP
What I don't understand is how a trinket makes something more fun, great a new piece of armor, or new word to place in my name. Sorry the fun is in the activity to me, the trinket is pretty much pointless after about 3 seconds IMO. Teh true reward comes from victory against a larger group or something like that for me, holding a keep against odds heavily not in your favor. That sort of stuff. The progression comes from getting better at PVP for me, improving my knowledge and skill in the game mechanics.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
first off in ESO your end goal for the ridiculous hardcore pvp player is to be the emperor. You dont just get a rank n title but a new skill tree only available if you become emperor. if I am not mistaken for those who participated their faction would also get a new skill set. Its on their website
also I find it very bias to give the hammer fall on a game that isnt even launched yet.
there is this whole bunch of people whom are bashing ESO for some reason or another. Most are an result of over thinking of some hypotical reason or unrealistic benchmarks
Oh look! You worked in ESO = SWTOR into the topic... how original!
Are you saying there won't be a DB or Thieve's guild and their skill lines? How much money are you willing to put on it?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I believe in Jesus.
With that my reservior to believe in the unseen is entirey depleted. So if they add it all, good. But that requires the revenue even lasts long enough. I believe it when I see it.
And the Good Lord forbade me to bet, btw.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Not that it matters really, this will be left behind and forgotten for the next cash-in AAA MMO "flavor of the month".
If I recall correctly, Realm Rank points were introduced after the game launched. As an early adopter of DAoC, I seem to remember RR being introduced in a Content Update Patch.
This sort of makes the original poster's claim a moot point considering that I have no doubts everyone at Zenimax wants to see The Elder Scrolls Online succeed. I highly doubt they'll be sitting around resting on their laurels, tipping a champagne glass in each other's direction any time soon
In the past couple of Weekend Beta events I participated in, I was surprised to find myself more deeply engaged in the experience than I originally expected. That's not to say TESO is a "perfect" experience yet, but as a former Dark Age of Camelot fan (pre-ToA) I could see DAoC's influences in many aspects of TESO. I expect to see plenty of content updates in TESO's future that will hopefully shape it into something that people, especially old fans of DAoC, will love.
some people on here are acting like this game has been out for 6 months or a year, instead of realizing this game hasnt even been released yet. Most MMO's dont have a lot of what the OP stated in game at launch, Developers add game content as the game evolves, and the player base evolves.. The OP is also thinking PVP is the ONLY thing to do in the PVP zone. as one poster wrote, there are 16 dungeons, PVE content, and a host of other activities to do in Cyradill, not JUST PVP. ZOS has stated they will be reading player feed back and adding to the game what the player base would like to see in game. That includes Arena's and dueling. People on here are acting like ZOS is going to keep what they have now for PVP and they are done with it.
this game will have A LOT more to offer than just PVP end game. they will have adventure zones, they are adding a justice system, they are adding the thieves guild and the dark brotherhood, and those are just what we know about. How about we wait at least the first 6 months, then suggest good options for ZOS to add to the game.