I'm sorry, but no amount of customer service or CS discussion is going to change the minds of gamers with no patience or intelligence as to how it goes with MMO's and their companies. These types of gamers(especially console players) want it all and they want it now.
The best thing is most MMO's are becoming "niche" games and we're slowly weeding out these types of gamers and the veteran, mature players can settle in for some gaming greatness. Perhaps we won't have to listen to the "chicken littles" of the gaming world too much longer.
God knows, I'm waiting for that day...
LOL you made my day! That made me laugh, but it is so true.
well the kids were raised on gold stars and pats on the head for just showing up, so what do you expect when life even in in a game treats then hard, all we hear is "I am Speical Give me!!" sigh...no clue about life at all.
Originally posted by onemanwolf No Auction House I will cancel my sub if they do not a Auction House
M8? how much time have spent in the game? cause for me the game has one of the best economies i have seen. Do you like better the AH of GW2? or the one in WoW? ( in which for example during Cataclysm i could easily buy all the Malestrom crystals in my server and sell them back at x5 the price)... Here you can join the trading guilds (up to 5) buy cheap from one and sell in better price in another.
I am playing out the rest of my 30 days then I'm gone. I am now playing EvE and planetside 2 again, but the miserable themepark grind of MMOs like ESO is getting extremely tired.
Underneath the rubble lies a real gem.... if Zenimax is open to give people more ways to level and keep improving their game then its prolly one of the better mmo's released in recent years.
I have come across my fair share of bugs and facepalm moments, but i still realy dig this mmo. Its a long road Zenimax has to walk and as we have seen there are many bumbs in the road ahead. But i am confident Zenimax is working their as s off to make good decisions.
And yes the grind is brutal, and thats what i like, i just wished their were more options then to grind quests.
AvA is a solid part of the game and yet there is no way to level trough pvp wich is realy sad.
Running Dungeons should reward gold / exp / items better, much much better then it does now.
These are 2 things i would realy like to see improved real fast before i reach V10.
Underneath the rubble lies a real gem.... if Zenimax is open to give people more ways to level and keep improving their game then its prolly one of the better mmo's released in recent years.
I have come across my fair share of bugs and facepalm moments, but i still realy dig this mmo. Its a long road Zenimax has to walk and as we have seen there are many bumbs in the road ahead. But i am confident Zenimax is working their as s off to make good decisions.
And yes the grind is brutal, and thats what i like, i just wished their were more options then to grind quests.
AvA is a solid part of the game and yet there is no way to level trough pvp wich is realy sad.
Running Dungeons should reward gold / exp / items better, much much better then it does now.
These are 2 things i would realy like to see improved real fast before i reach V10.
You know the rewards from dungeons have been purposefully lowered to their current levels, right? Where they are now is where they want them to be. I don't agree with their seeming insistence that questing be the only way to level, it's one thing to make sure that grinding mobs or spamming dungeons doesn't leave questing behind, but another thing to make grinding and spamming dungeons completely inefficient. Anywho, don't hold your breath. Fortunately I love the questing in this game.
I don't accept the argument posted repeatedly that ESO should get a pass because all of these types of problems have surfaced in other games, in their launches. It's irresponsible to put forth that logic here and to support that logic by paying a subscription.
It's hard to believe that in game design that someone didn't say, for example, "hey, what about bots on static resource nodes?" I would bet that all of these issues were anticipated, and purposely ignored or deferred. Shame on, anyone defending that behavior.
If you lost a loved one because their car had a defect, and it was a defect that had been in older cars, would you post your support on that car company's website? Or would you argue they should have avoided that defect by studying past issues?
It was obvious from beta that the game was over-hyped. The best that can be said about it is that it is your average MMO. It is clearly over priced as well and there is no way that it is not going FTP. The launch bugs are to be expected. However, people who decided to pay the exorbitant fee to play this game have a right to be upset. When you are paying for a premium service, one expects to get premium service and support. From the business side, however, the calculus is totally different. They are charging premium prices to re-coup their investment and make a ton of money for as long as they can milk the customer base. Hiring more programmer's to fix bugs and more support staff to handle tickets cuts into the bottom line. IMO, ESO was meant to rake it in from the early adopters and then go FTP. This was the plan from the beginning.
ESO has much bigger issue than bugs/exploits/rocky launch.... the grind in Veteran Ranks is brutal. and questing in Veteran Ranks... well to put it bluntly, sucks.
Also why should we forgive problems during launch?
Because many previous games had problems? To me that's not a valid excuse period.
1. You spend $60 - the game should work, the quests (especially MAIN quest) should work, the server shouldn't be down for 14 hours, bank slots deleted - this should not happen ever.
Mass bans (including players who never duped), then unbans of folks who duped too?
There are some things that are very hard to forgive.
I feel that Zenimax does not know and are not ready to host a AAA game - I am not going to give them another shot at this time.
I have no confidence in their ability to run an online game at this time. So I will play out my remaining 2 weeks but no sub from me.
Unfortunately I have tried to like the game but can't, I feel as if i wasted money on the game as well,. It has been a frustrating experience and because i enjoy my friends that i am grateful to play with i bought it. There are too many issues to resolve for me personally. I wish everyone the best of luck but i won't be paying my sub for it. Perhaps in time if it survives this major loss of customers it will flourish, who knows? Hopefully the investors got there ROI on the 200 million dollars they have invested so we will see other titles developed in the industry.
I don't think the game has sufficient player heritage to survive a FFXIV ARR redo but who knows anything is possible.
TESO is easily up there with SWTOR, TSW and GW2. The question is will it get better? TESO does not have a gaming system problem, like say faction play in Warhammer or a mid level crisis like in AoC.
It will get past the bugs which are one of the easiest things to fix, they do not have to redesign the game from the ground up like FF did, within a couple of months most of the bugs will be history.
It was obvious from beta that the game was over-hyped. The best that can be said about it is that it is your average MMO. It is clearly over priced as well and there is no way that it is not going FTP. The launch bugs are to be expected. However, people who decided to pay the exorbitant fee to play this game have a right to be upset. When you are paying for a premium service, one expects to get premium service and support. From the business side, however, the calculus is totally different. They are charging premium prices to re-coup their investment and make a ton of money for as long as they can milk the customer base. Hiring more programmer's to fix bugs and more support staff to handle tickets cuts into the bottom line. IMO, ESO was meant to rake it in from the early adopters and then go FTP. This was the plan from the beginning.
These companies (all of it, including Zenimax) think we all are customers, not "fellow gamers". They also act like that. If i don't pay my sub in time, do they say "ah cut some slack to Joe.. he is a good man, he will pay it.. lets just wait a little more"? No. So why should i cut some slack to them? Why should i wait for the magical patch that will fix everything?
Whole review says "it is not that bad, just wait, they will fix it". No. First of all, it is that bad. Second of all, again, why should i wait? If i am a customer, which i am in their eyes, i demand the polished version now. Not 3 months later.
This is not a indie / kickstarter game. This is an AAA title that costs lot of money.
It is amazing that gaming companies usually gets away with a pat on their back. In any other business field, acts like this will make your company ruin. But when it comes to games, suddenly we all became "ah you.. don't do this again.. but we still love you, don't worry."
Why do we keep doing that? Gaming became a very serious business lately, billion dollars kinda thing. Bigger then movies. Bigger then any other entertainment. Companies understand this perfectly but we still can't. We still think people who makes games are different, are more "special". No. They are not.
Make them understand. Unsub. Ask for a refund. Make complaints. Or we will keep seeing this kind of amateurism in the future.
Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)
Originally posted by remyburke I am having more fun with this MMO than I think I've ever had with another themepark.
Me as well. The enjoyment of the overall game elements exceeds the few bugs I've experienced.
My biggest problem so far are the gold/power leveling spammers (they've worked around the 2 add-ons that help with this) and bots. I see characters dressed in starter clothes fading into virtual existence then fading away again..going from node to node and quest to quest all the time. One mine I went into yesterday had a group of 10 or so just sitting there botting 2 spawns in a back corner of the cave structure. Fortunately they were not quest spawns b/'c they died in less than a second. Definitely some hack/spam and exploit issues I hope they can remedy and guard against in the future.
These companies (all of it, including Zenimax) think we all are customers, not "fellow gamers". They also act like that. If i don't pay my sub in time, do they say "ah cut some slack to Joe.. he is a good man, he will pay it.. lets just wait a little more"? No. So why should i cut some slack to them? Why should i wait for the magical patch that will fix everything?
Whole review says "it is not that bad, just wait, they will fix it". No. First of all, it is that bad. Second of all, again, why should i wait? If i am a customer, which i am in their eyes, i demand the polished version now. Not 3 months later.
This is not a indie / kickstarter game. This is an AAA title that costs lot of money.
It is amazing that gaming companies usually gets away with a pat on their back. In any other business field, acts like this will make your company ruin. But when it comes to games, suddenly we all became "ah you.. don't do this again.. but we still love you, don't worry."
Why do we keep doing that? Gaming became a very serious business lately, billion dollars kinda thing. Bigger then movies. Bigger then any other entertainment. Companies understand this perfectly but we still can't. We still think people who makes games are different, are more "special". No. They are not.
Make them understand. Unsub. Ask for a refund. Make complaints. Or we will keep seeing this kind of amateurism in the future.
I know people will think I'm soft but it has always been this way with the majority, if not all, MMOs. It's the nature of the beast in my opinion. Some have had it better than others but mostly its the same story.
Some say we should speak with our wallet but if we had done the same with UO, Everquest, Runescape, DAoC or WOW back in those days we'd likely not have many options to choose from these days. We are not as forgiving or patient these days ...imo...only because we have so many MMOs it seems they are all trying to fuck us over with crap product..when they really have always been this way. Buggy as hell for the most part.. It just started on a very small, easily manageable and more tolerable , niche scale that has since grown exponentially and overwhelmingly as MMOs have become more appealing to a larger demographic.
These companies (all of it, including Zenimax) think we all are customers, not "fellow gamers". They also act like that. If i don't pay my sub in time, do they say "ah cut some slack to Joe.. he is a good man, he will pay it.. lets just wait a little more"? No. So why should i cut some slack to them? Why should i wait for the magical patch that will fix everything?
Whole review says "it is not that bad, just wait, they will fix it". No. First of all, it is that bad. Second of all, again, why should i wait? If i am a customer, which i am in their eyes, i demand the polished version now. Not 3 months later.
This is not a indie / kickstarter game. This is an AAA title that costs lot of money.
It is amazing that gaming companies usually gets away with a pat on their back. In any other business field, acts like this will make your company ruin. But when it comes to games, suddenly we all became "ah you.. don't do this again.. but we still love you, don't worry."
Why do we keep doing that? Gaming became a very serious business lately, billion dollars kinda thing. Bigger then movies. Bigger then any other entertainment. Companies understand this perfectly but we still can't. We still think people who makes games are different, are more "special". No. They are not.
Make them understand. Unsub. Ask for a refund. Make complaints. Or we will keep seeing this kind of amateurism in the future.
Originally posted by mbd1968 As I am forcing myself to log in to play I doubt I will be subbing at the end of my 30 days. The game just isn't that enjoyable for me.
Somehow I don't think you are alone on that one. It just fails at being an Elder Scrolls game and from what I've seen even the fourth installment held my attention more than what the MMO likely would have.
These companies (all of it, including Zenimax) think we all are customers, not "fellow gamers". They also act like that. If i don't pay my sub in time, do they say "ah cut some slack to Joe.. he is a good man, he will pay it.. lets just wait a little more"? No. So why should i cut some slack to them? Why should i wait for the magical patch that will fix everything?
Whole review says "it is not that bad, just wait, they will fix it". No. First of all, it is that bad. Second of all, again, why should i wait? If i am a customer, which i am in their eyes, i demand the polished version now. Not 3 months later.
This is not a indie / kickstarter game. This is an AAA title that costs lot of money.
It is amazing that gaming companies usually gets away with a pat on their back. In any other business field, acts like this will make your company ruin. But when it comes to games, suddenly we all became "ah you.. don't do this again.. but we still love you, don't worry."
Why do we keep doing that? Gaming became a very serious business lately, billion dollars kinda thing. Bigger then movies. Bigger then any other entertainment. Companies understand this perfectly but we still can't. We still think people who makes games are different, are more "special". No. They are not.
Make them understand. Unsub. Ask for a refund. Make complaints. Or we will keep seeing this kind of amateurism in the future.
Very well said
Problem with this everyone is different when it comes to bug tolerance when it comes to a product. What to you is unacceptable may be just a minor annoyance to someone else. Everyone makes their own cost/benefit analysis. While it is silly for some to say everyone should stop complaining about bugs; it is equally silly for someone to ask us all to unsub and rant and rave...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
You want to charge 60 bucks + $20 (if you want Imperial + white horse and other perks) and then a subscription? You get your shit together. They bragged about how they had 5mil beta registers. I don't want to hear excuses. I want to hear accountability. I want to see patch notes specifically pointing out known issues if they weren't fixed already.
It's fucking hilarious how if you don't want to sub to these unfinished buggy games you're a poor person mooching, but when you do buy in and subscribe and expect quality you're overbearing and expect too much.
There are quests that were broken since beta and they 2-stepped their way right into launch. Even now there are some simple quests that have spawning issues that seem simple enough to correct so people can progress on. I've seen F2P games hotfix stuff like that in 24-48 hrs. Is Zenimax capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time?
I'm one of the people that came in liking ESO, but I feel like Zenimax is being rewarded for feet dragging. Look at their terms of service. They try to make people pay an extra month if they don't cancel 30 days in advance, but I'm not allowed to expect simple quest hotfixes. I'm not allowed to expect when I press my mouse or keys something is to happen. I'm not allowed to expect NPCs to spawn in quests.
FOH. I didn't buy in to hate the game.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
What amazes me is that it takes developers 5 years to release mmos with bugs. Why should we forgive them when it is our money they are dealing with ? I'm just saying perhaps mmo development needs 6 or more years in order to avoid such tragic events such as these... This sounds like they tried to cut corners in order to make investors happy again. Don't people ever learn ?
Comments
well the kids were raised on gold stars and pats on the head for just showing up, so what do you expect when life even in in a game treats then hard, all we hear is "I am Speical Give me!!" sigh...no clue about life at all.
It's funny isn't it? i have played so many mmos and yet no other mmo ever gave me so nice leveling experience.
M8? how much time have spent in the game? cause for me the game has one of the best economies i have seen. Do you like better the AH of GW2? or the one in WoW? ( in which for example during Cataclysm i could easily buy all the Malestrom crystals in my server and sell them back at x5 the price)... Here you can join the trading guilds (up to 5) buy cheap from one and sell in better price in another.
http://wyrdblogging.blogspot.com/
Underneath the rubble lies a real gem....
if Zenimax is open to give people more ways to level and keep improving their game then its prolly one of the better mmo's released in recent years.
I have come across my fair share of bugs and facepalm moments, but i still realy dig this mmo.
Its a long road Zenimax has to walk and as we have seen there are many bumbs in the road ahead.
But i am confident Zenimax is working their as s off to make good decisions.
And yes the grind is brutal, and thats what i like, i just wished their were more options then to grind quests.
AvA is a solid part of the game and yet there is no way to level trough pvp wich is realy sad.
Running Dungeons should reward gold / exp / items better, much much better then it does now.
These are 2 things i would realy like to see improved real fast before i reach V10.
You know the rewards from dungeons have been purposefully lowered to their current levels, right? Where they are now is where they want them to be. I don't agree with their seeming insistence that questing be the only way to level, it's one thing to make sure that grinding mobs or spamming dungeons doesn't leave questing behind, but another thing to make grinding and spamming dungeons completely inefficient. Anywho, don't hold your breath. Fortunately I love the questing in this game.
It's hard to believe that in game design that someone didn't say, for example, "hey, what about bots on static resource nodes?" I would bet that all of these issues were anticipated, and purposely ignored or deferred. Shame on, anyone defending that behavior.
If you lost a loved one because their car had a defect, and it was a defect that had been in older cars, would you post your support on that car company's website? Or would you argue they should have avoided that defect by studying past issues?
It was obvious from beta that the game was over-hyped. The best that can be said about it is that it is your average MMO. It is clearly over priced as well and there is no way that it is not going FTP. The launch bugs are to be expected. However, people who decided to pay the exorbitant fee to play this game have a right to be upset. When you are paying for a premium service, one expects to get premium service and support. From the business side, however, the calculus is totally different. They are charging premium prices to re-coup their investment and make a ton of money for as long as they can milk the customer base. Hiring more programmer's to fix bugs and more support staff to handle tickets cuts into the bottom line. IMO, ESO was meant to rake it in from the early adopters and then go FTP. This was the plan from the beginning.
Agree 100%
Unfortunately I have tried to like the game but can't, I feel as if i wasted money on the game as well,. It has been a frustrating experience and because i enjoy my friends that i am grateful to play with i bought it. There are too many issues to resolve for me personally. I wish everyone the best of luck but i won't be paying my sub for it. Perhaps in time if it survives this major loss of customers it will flourish, who knows? Hopefully the investors got there ROI on the 200 million dollars they have invested so we will see other titles developed in the industry.
I don't think the game has sufficient player heritage to survive a FFXIV ARR redo but who knows anything is possible.
TESO is easily up there with SWTOR, TSW and GW2. The question is will it get better? TESO does not have a gaming system problem, like say faction play in Warhammer or a mid level crisis like in AoC.
It will get past the bugs which are one of the easiest things to fix, they do not have to redesign the game from the ground up like FF did, within a couple of months most of the bugs will be history.
This ^^
These companies (all of it, including Zenimax) think we all are customers, not "fellow gamers". They also act like that. If i don't pay my sub in time, do they say "ah cut some slack to Joe.. he is a good man, he will pay it.. lets just wait a little more"? No. So why should i cut some slack to them? Why should i wait for the magical patch that will fix everything?
Whole review says "it is not that bad, just wait, they will fix it". No. First of all, it is that bad. Second of all, again, why should i wait? If i am a customer, which i am in their eyes, i demand the polished version now. Not 3 months later.
This is not a indie / kickstarter game. This is an AAA title that costs lot of money.
It is amazing that gaming companies usually gets away with a pat on their back. In any other business field, acts like this will make your company ruin. But when it comes to games, suddenly we all became "ah you.. don't do this again.. but we still love you, don't worry."
Why do we keep doing that? Gaming became a very serious business lately, billion dollars kinda thing. Bigger then movies. Bigger then any other entertainment. Companies understand this perfectly but we still can't. We still think people who makes games are different, are more "special". No. They are not.
Make them understand. Unsub. Ask for a refund. Make complaints. Or we will keep seeing this kind of amateurism in the future.
Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)
Me as well. The enjoyment of the overall game elements exceeds the few bugs I've experienced.
My biggest problem so far are the gold/power leveling spammers (they've worked around the 2 add-ons that help with this) and bots. I see characters dressed in starter clothes fading into virtual existence then fading away again..going from node to node and quest to quest all the time. One mine I went into yesterday had a group of 10 or so just sitting there botting 2 spawns in a back corner of the cave structure. Fortunately they were not quest spawns b/'c they died in less than a second. Definitely some hack/spam and exploit issues I hope they can remedy and guard against in the future.
I know people will think I'm soft but it has always been this way with the majority, if not all, MMOs. It's the nature of the beast in my opinion. Some have had it better than others but mostly its the same story.
Some say we should speak with our wallet but if we had done the same with UO, Everquest, Runescape, DAoC or WOW back in those days we'd likely not have many options to choose from these days. We are not as forgiving or patient these days ...imo...only because we have so many MMOs it seems they are all trying to fuck us over with crap product..when they really have always been this way. Buggy as hell for the most part.. It just started on a very small, easily manageable and more tolerable , niche scale that has since grown exponentially and overwhelmingly as MMOs have become more appealing to a larger demographic.
Very well said
Somehow I don't think you are alone on that one. It just fails at being an Elder Scrolls game and from what I've seen even the fourth installment held my attention more than what the MMO likely would have.
Problem with this everyone is different when it comes to bug tolerance when it comes to a product. What to you is unacceptable may be just a minor annoyance to someone else. Everyone makes their own cost/benefit analysis. While it is silly for some to say everyone should stop complaining about bugs; it is equally silly for someone to ask us all to unsub and rant and rave...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
They say SWtOR failed also...almost 3 years later.
Maybe this game will fail like SWtOR...
SWTOR is more enjoyable to play, I still go back for some pew pew occasionally.
You want to charge 60 bucks + $20 (if you want Imperial + white horse and other perks) and then a subscription? You get your shit together. They bragged about how they had 5mil beta registers. I don't want to hear excuses. I want to hear accountability. I want to see patch notes specifically pointing out known issues if they weren't fixed already.
It's fucking hilarious how if you don't want to sub to these unfinished buggy games you're a poor person mooching, but when you do buy in and subscribe and expect quality you're overbearing and expect too much.
There are quests that were broken since beta and they 2-stepped their way right into launch. Even now there are some simple quests that have spawning issues that seem simple enough to correct so people can progress on. I've seen F2P games hotfix stuff like that in 24-48 hrs. Is Zenimax capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time?
I'm one of the people that came in liking ESO, but I feel like Zenimax is being rewarded for feet dragging. Look at their terms of service. They try to make people pay an extra month if they don't cancel 30 days in advance, but I'm not allowed to expect simple quest hotfixes. I'm not allowed to expect when I press my mouse or keys something is to happen. I'm not allowed to expect NPCs to spawn in quests.
FOH. I didn't buy in to hate the game.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯