Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
What is "skill" based combat?
seraphynx
Member UncommonPosts: 147
I see people state non tab target combat = skill based I don't understand that concept...all combat is skill based no matter the targeting system. Can someone elaborate why aiming seems to be the definition of skill based to people?
Comments
Without the full context of the conversation, I'm just guessing here, but I would think they are referring to player skill (mental/physical) rather than character skill (stats/attributes) to determine outcome.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If both players have equal gear and stats then it no longer is just a dice roll..so then it would come down to who knows how to play their character betterWhile practically every game is skill based to an extent, the term "skill-based" is used for games with a gameplay significantly more so to set them apart from the rest.
These games usually rely more on the players skill rather than relying on stats and dicerolls. Such gameplay elements include active blocking, dodge rolls, manual aim, various minigames for noncombat activities etc.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
because fps players (like to) feel superior to rpg players?
Heh it is not. Just different. Some like it better some do not.
It is just a way to make the gamer more involved by having to move the mouse around and/or the character to target than tab targeting .
Not really "skill" to me, other than with a mouse, or keyboard.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Skill based combat is when player actually control things like aiming, dodging, timing instead of being solved by computer calculations and stats.
When most things are resolved by stats the difference between skill floor and skill cap is so small, and competitive players hate that.
All combat is skill based. Whether you have a fixed target (tab targeting) or pointer targeted or randomized elements (dice rolls), it all comes down to which skills you use and when and in which combinations, combined with alot of other factors. You could argue that some combat settings require more skills in various ways, twitch skills, fast thinking, strategic planning, foresight, etc; but I think that is a very subjective discussion.
Maybe "they" are talking about skill based as in your skills having levels (relative power), instead of your character having levels ?
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Tab target is pressing your skill buttons in the correct order for max dps, you don't have to worry about aiming or dodging anything at all. You make sure you have gear high enough to do high dps and so that you don't take too much damage.
Action combat means that you have to use your skills in order but you also have to aim at your target, if the target moves fast and you can't keep on target you lose dps. That means that of 2 dps, the one that can't keep up with the aiming system will do a lot less damage which means one will be more "skilled" than the other. Added to that some also have systems where any damage aimed at you can be dodged or blocked by a skill button press, don't block or dodge in time and you either take lots of damage or you die outright.
You would think so, but it's actually not true.
In most tab targetting games you have things like 'crit' 'block percentage' 'dodge percentage', etc. Even if both players have the same percentage, it's still all based on RNG (random number generators). Just because you both have 50% chance to dodge, doesn't mean you will both dodge half the attacks of a single fight, just as it doesn't mean that you will both dodge the same quality of attacks (you might have dodged a 1900 dmg crit, whereas I may have dodged a 500 dmg auto attack).
You also don't have to worry about aiming, positioning, etc. during a fight, which means the numbers behind the scenes (which are passive strength indicators) are primarily what determines the outcome of a fight.
Also, (using WoW as an example), the difference between a person with full epic (or w/e it's called now), and normal (green) items is astronomical. You have zero chance of winning, even if the enemy goes afk. This fact shows that in such a game it is GEAR that is the primary factor in determining the outcome of a fight.
- Understand that when most people refer to a game as 'skill-based' they are talking about 'skill' being the primary factor in determining player strength. This is not meant as an attack on 'non-skill-based' games, but rather is a matter of personal preference. Some players prefer games in which they acquire better & better stats (gear progression), other players prefer games in which they mostly have to outplay and outsmart opponents to win (skill-based).
As the lines between game-types get more and more blurred, the discussion over which games are and aren't skill-based (mobas for example) becomes more difficult. However, this is a very basic breakdown of how (and why) skill-based games are classified the way they are.
+100% !
The term "skill-based combat" is usually linked to games where twitch skills (mouse-cursor aiming, circle-strafing, active dodging, etc.) are the deciding factor in the outcome of a battle. The term implies that physical attributes (fast reflexes and good eye/hand co-ordination) are what determines "skill", not the player's mental acuity.
So, if you can execute complex keypress combo's with one hand whilst using the other to move the mouse accurately at lightspeed, you are "skilled".
If not, you're a "bad"...
Wow...
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Just a "bad" or a full-blown "bkrandy"?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It's not a buzzword, and it's not something to be offended by either.
A game being 'skill-based' isn't a snipe at people playing 'non-skill-based' games. All it refers to is what the primary determining factor is for success / victory / winning a game. All games have varying degrees of skill. That is not what is being debated.
When someone says a game is 'skill-based' they mean the game primarily defers to player skill when determining outcome. There are quite obvious examples of both skill, and non-skill based games. And there are some that fall within the grey area in between (like MOBAs).
It's very hard to argue that some MMOs (like WoW) are mostly determined by player skill, when the power creep between gear is so insanely huge, that it is now at the point where a newer WoW player is doing thousands of damage, while a fully decked out vet is doing 100s of thousands if not millions of damage. Other MMOs (primarily newer ones), not only try to minimize these gear differentials, but they also allow for players to mitigate much of what an enemy is doing to them via proper timing, positioning, aiming, etc.
That is the very definition of 'skill', not who has the better legendaries. This doesn't mean that a game like WoW doesn't have a certain degree of skill, but rather that it is not the primary determining factor. It doesn't matter how skilled you are in WoW, you aren't doing top-tier endgame raids in white gear. It's mathematically impossible. Same in PvP. However in a skill based game it can be possible, through proper timing, positioning, aiming, etc. And indeed, in games like GW2 i have beaten less skilled higher lvl (and better geared) players as crappy underleveled / undergeared toons.
Here's the thing.
The term is usually pitted against tab-targeting for a very simple reason, non-tab-targeting games have more elements to pay attention to.
The games people will call "skill based" have all of the elements that a tab-targeting game does, but adds a heavy weight on positioning and aiming as others have mentioned. The more elements to being effective at battle there are, the higher the skill cap is to be the best. And that is it, more skilled players will be on top regardless, but from my experience, the skill caps are raised for games that have left tab-targeting behind.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
Actually, no it doesn't.
These are just things people are interpreting, because they are either trying to use the term as a stigma, or they are taking the term as a slight and getting offended over it.
Chess, is a SKILL based game. You dont have to be strong, or fast, or have good aim. However, you do have to be smart, tactical, and out smart your opponent.
All skill-based means is 'the game relies primarily on player skill to determine the outcome'. It's really that simple. It doesn't distinguish the type of skill, or the amount, just that it's the primary driving force of whatever game you are playing. It doesn't have anything to do with how good (or bad) players are who play a certain game, that's just people being ignorant on the internet. When dealing with MMOs there tends to be 2 types of games, gear-based (or stat-based) which rely primarily on passive factors & rng to determine the outcome of a fight. Then you have skill-based (which rely primarily on player reactions, strategy, positionin, aim, etc.), which rely primarily on player-skill to determine the outcome.
One type of game is primarily passive, the other is primarily active. That's all there is to it, and that's why so many action-combat games are labeled 'skill-based'. Because action-combat is primarily an 'active' style of gameplay/
Well said.
actually, unlike skill-based vs level based character progression, where skill-based really is neutral term referring to the fact that your character progression is not based on gaining overall levels but on increasing particular character skill, term "skill based combat" is, well i would not go as far as saying offensive, but it is MENT as demeaning.
because by saying "i prefer skill based combat" you actually are saying that the other types of combat are not skill based, you are more or less saying "those are beneath me, i have a skill"
edit:
if you want a neutral term, i would say "twitch based combat" or "reflexes based combat"
No, they are actually saying that the other types of combat are stat based. Anything more you are reading into it unless they are explicitly stating it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
i disagree - i would take "player skill based combat" vs "character skill/stat based combat" but "skill based combat" (at least as used on these forums) is ment as "superior" term.
Skill based combat = Combat that does not rely on gear stats and requires player strategy to beat the enemy player or AI. Stat wise everyone is on equal footing (pvp) while combat mechanics and tactics availability are the top factor.
@OP, maybe im not interpreting your first post well but i think you are confusing the word skill. Skill based combat doesnt mean class skills, it means player skill. The ability of a person to properly play the game and win a fight without item stats giving the advantage.
I don't think you've thought that through.
You would still have the "dice rolls" but the variables such as armor ratings, range of damage, etc would all be the same.
Have you ever played D&D? give to combatants the same gear, same level of class, same spells or "skills" same equipment, etc you still would have the dice rolls against all of that.
"Skill based" usually means you are responsible for dodging, blocking and striking and your dodges, blocks and strikes are up to you as the player.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo