It has nothing or little to do with sections of the game and pvp but more so a multitude of reasons.
The game is technically ancient,it also has VERY little assets per zone ,i guess to be expected playing a space game.However the overall content continues to be uni-directional the game has imo not improved one bit from a PVE stand point and this is multi millions in profits later and many years,also imo that is a really slack effort , REALLY slack effort.
Of course you can cut them some slack out of the gate,they struggled badly,had no money but odd nobody was willing to cut Vanguard that same slack,i think it kind of proves this game has no competition and the ONLY reason it has survived.
Then you can add little things like a VERY questionable ISK design and at least 1 most likely more employees caught cheating.The other thing that always bothered me was WHY,why would they hire a small team to oversee the economy if it was SUPPOSE to be player driven,meaning let it happen,quit interfering.Then yet more,i was in noob chat and all i saw was ISK selling spam going off like a repeating gun,that with staff in the chat,proving they obviously don't care or insert other reason.
CCP to this day have proven nothing to me that they are anything but a second rate developer.Yes i know it is not their job to prove anything to me but i am sure many others carry my ideals.I prefer a develoepr i can TRUST with every aspect of the game from how it plays to cheating to ongoing development.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So you expect people to actually pay a subscription fee just to play a game where the goal of the game is to scam and grief people?
...
Lolz.
that is not even remotely close to "the goal of the game". the goal of eve is whatever the player wants to achieve. for some, the goal is to scam, but to others it's to build a financial juggernaut, for others its to kill pirates, for others still it's to build and sell space ships. this also exists on the corp and alliance level.
it's actually exactly what makes eve WORTH that fee,
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
So you expect people to actually pay a subscription fee just to play a game where the goal of the game is to scam and grief people?
...
Lolz.
that is not even remotely close to "the goal of the game". the goal of eve is whatever the player wants to achieve. for some, the goal is to scam, but to others it's to build a financial juggernaut, for others its to kill pirates, for others still it's to build and sell space ships. this also exists on the corp and alliance level.
it's actually exactly what makes eve WORTH that fee,
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what people kick, scream and cry for. No 'end level', open world, ability to do what they want (sandbox) and non-linear skill progression. All of these things that people purport to plead for on a daily basis creates these types of worlds, then you get those same people complaining about how it's 'too harsh' or 'everyone is griefing' which are almost always overgeneralizations and exaggerations.
It has nothing or little to do with sections of the game and pvp but more so a multitude of reasons.
The game is technically ancient,it also has VERY little assets per zone ,i guess to be expected playing a space game.However the overall content continues to be uni-directional the game has imo not improved one bit from a PVE stand point and this is multi millions in profits later and many years,also imo that is a really slack effort , REALLY slack effort.
Of course you can cut them some slack out of the gate,they struggled badly,had no money but odd nobody was willing to cut Vanguard that same slack,i think it kind of proves this game has no competition and the ONLY reason it has survived.
Then you can add little things like a VERY questionable ISK design and at least 1 most likely more employees caught cheating.The other thing that always bothered me was WHY,why would they hire a small team to oversee the economy if it was SUPPOSE to be player driven,meaning let it happen,quit interfering.Then yet more,i was in noob chat and all i saw was ISK selling spam going off like a repeating gun,that with staff in the chat,proving they obviously don't care or insert other reason.
CCP to this day have proven nothing to me that they are anything but a second rate developer.Yes i know it is not their job to prove anything to me but i am sure many others carry my ideals.I prefer a develoepr i can TRUST with every aspect of the game from how it plays to cheating to ongoing development.
They have also NEVER finished ANY of their Expansions. They are like a child with ADHD. They start with something then a few weeks later they are moving on to the next thing.
How about changing the sovereign system in null.
Oh oh! Let's make wormholes and stations.
Let's make some more PVE content called incursions.
i have this shiny new idea of an amazing character editor.
let's sell some fashion items for ridiculous amounts.
wait let's make stations actual areas you can walk in.
No i got a better idea, let's just make captains quarters.
It has nothing or little to do with sections of the game and pvp but more so a multitude of reasons.
The game is technically ancient,it also has VERY little assets per zone ,i guess to be expected playing a space game.However the overall content continues to be uni-directional the game has imo not improved one bit from a PVE stand point and this is multi millions in profits later and many years,also imo that is a really slack effort , REALLY slack effort.
Of course you can cut them some slack out of the gate,they struggled badly,had no money but odd nobody was willing to cut Vanguard that same slack,i think it kind of proves this game has no competition and the ONLY reason it has survived.
Then you can add little things like a VERY questionable ISK design and at least 1 most likely more employees caught cheating.The other thing that always bothered me was WHY,why would they hire a small team to oversee the economy if it was SUPPOSE to be player driven,meaning let it happen,quit interfering.Then yet more,i was in noob chat and all i saw was ISK selling spam going off like a repeating gun,that with staff in the chat,proving they obviously don't care or insert other reason.
CCP to this day have proven nothing to me that they are anything but a second rate developer.Yes i know it is not their job to prove anything to me but i am sure many others carry my ideals.I prefer a develoepr i can TRUST with every aspect of the game from how it plays to cheating to ongoing development.
They have also NEVER finished ANY of their Expansions. They are like a child with ADHD. They start with something then a few weeks later they are moving on to the next thing.
How about changing the sovereign system in null.
Oh oh! Let's make wormholes and stations.
Let's make some more PVE content called incursions.
i have this shiny new idea of an amazing character editor.
let's sell some fashion items for ridiculous amounts.
wait let's make stations actual areas you can walk in.
No i got a better idea, let's just make captains quarters.
oh wait let's make a FPS shooter.
This just keeps continuing over and over.
What is that list supposed to show? Because half of that stuff they did and the other half was for a single expansion that the players overwhelmingly hated and caused a huge backlash so it wasn't completed.
Not even mentioning that half of that list doesn't have much to do with the actual thread subject.
Severe offences may result in an immediate ban without warning; however, warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player:
b. Uses role-playing as an excuse for violating the guidelines regarding fair play with others.
g. Engages in griefplay tactics which may include, but are not limited to, market/courier exploits.
***
So no Griefing is not part of Eve open world PVP. Scamming is, Ganking is, open PVP is. Unfortunately CCP has lost some control, and griefer are running uncontrolled, hence threads like this.
Well, lets preface this by using some of the content at the top of the Policies page that will put this into some actual context.
Though we have made every effort to anticipate all the possible circumstances we may encounter as caretakers of the persistent world of EVE Online, there issues may arise that we had not foreseen. Our players are free-thinking, creative and sometimes crafty individuals who possess the ability to enter into situations or create scenarios unexpectedly. Therefore, this document should not been seen as all-inclusive, but rather to give our players a general idea of the guidelines we follow in dealing with these or similar cases.
You highlighed (b) which is nothing more than a catch-all to cover use of role-playing so players can't use lore to cover their in-game activities.
Eve Online also attempts to define griefing in which it states:
"In EVE, "griefing" refers to various activities, some of which can be argued not to be "griefing" in the classic sense, but parts of valid gameplay. There are certain forms of griefing that can get you banned from the game. These include (but probably are not limited to) can baiting in rookie systems and certain forms of verbal harassment".
After which, it lists some of the types of griefing, here.
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.
An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in the systems the Blood Stained Stars epic arc takes you through is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.
I think the biggest problem here is that there are different definitions of "griefing" and people tend to use the term 'griefing' in their own way. So while some players say that they are or are being 'griefed' it doesn't mean that the actual activity being performed meets the criteria of GM action.
That's exactly what i was referring to, malicious, vindictive behaviour, not predator like activities (The latter of which is core to Eve) It very much depends on intent.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Severe offences may result in an immediate ban without warning; however, warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player:
b. Uses role-playing as an excuse for violating the guidelines regarding fair play with others.
g. Engages in griefplay tactics which may include, but are not limited to, market/courier exploits.
***
So no Griefing is not part of Eve open world PVP. Scamming is, Ganking is, open PVP is. Unfortunately CCP has lost some control, and griefer are running uncontrolled, hence threads like this.
Well, lets preface this by using some of the content at the top of the Policies page that will put this into some actual context.
Though we have made every effort to anticipate all the possible circumstances we may encounter as caretakers of the persistent world of EVE Online, there issues may arise that we had not foreseen. Our players are free-thinking, creative and sometimes crafty individuals who possess the ability to enter into situations or create scenarios unexpectedly. Therefore, this document should not been seen as all-inclusive, but rather to give our players a general idea of the guidelines we follow in dealing with these or similar cases.
You highlighed (b) which is nothing more than a catch-all to cover use of role-playing so players can't use lore to cover their in-game activities.
Eve Online also attempts to define griefing in which it states:
"In EVE, "griefing" refers to various activities, some of which can be argued not to be "griefing" in the classic sense, but parts of valid gameplay. There are certain forms of griefing that can get you banned from the game. These include (but probably are not limited to) can baiting in rookie systems and certain forms of verbal harassment".
After which, it lists some of the types of griefing, here.
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.
An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in the systems the Blood Stained Stars epic arc takes you through is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.
I think the biggest problem here is that there are different definitions of "griefing" and people tend to use the term 'griefing' in their own way. So while some players say that they are or are being 'griefed' it doesn't mean that the actual activity being performed meets the criteria of GM action.
That's exactly what i was referring to, malicious, vindictive behaviour, not predator like activities (The latter of which is core to Eve) It very much depends on intent.
Yes, malicious activity (not all the other stuff like vindictive or predatory behavior which you italicized as if quoting) and it does all come down to intent. CCP does moderate their game but only within the confines of what THEY believe is an actionable offense. The assertion that they've "lost control" is an oversimplification brought on by players misunderstanding of the rules of conduct.
You really think CCP are on top of all malicious behaviour? 'farming for tears' (what a foul indicator that phrase is) or perhaps ganking those who are clearly new for kicks even at a financial loss both spring to mind as common behaviour that is unpunished.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom You really think CCP are on top of all malicious behaviour? 'farming for tears' (what a foul indicator that phrase is) or perhaps ganking those who are clearly new for kicks even at a financial loss both spring to mind as common behaviour that is unpunished.
No game is completely on top of bannable behavior, it's an absurd standard. 'Farming for tears' isn't exclusive to EO and ganking people for kicks isn't necessarily griefing, in the sense of bannable behavior. Suicide ganking is also not griefing, it's part of the chaotic life of the New Eden universe.
This game isn't about rainbows and unicorns, a great deal of the content in this game is player generated and the good and bad that comes with it is inherent in that model.
Originally posted by AndrewGoat So you expect people to actually pay a subscription fee just to play a game where the goal of the game is to scam and grief people? ... Lolz.
Like in real life settings ! and wage war or betray your friends or spy or become a industry giant.
We have themeparks called WoW for the more carebear and smelling the flowers type of players. Eve Online just isnt for those weaker type of players who cant take the heat of losing pixels. battles that actualy matter instead of battlegrounds where you resurect and lose nothing.
Lucky we get Archeage also ! while not even as close to the hardness of Eve Online, it comes close enough to reap tears of the smaller fish who refuse to form unity or play smart.
I love both these mmo's ! And i hope more and more studio's look after these sandpark / sandbox mmo's as we can all see that Themeparks is just failure after failure. To many WoW copy's flying around thinking they can cash in on the same type of players.
Just be happy we as gamers have a choice on what to play and that it offers diffrent playstyles for everyone.
We have themeparks called WoW for the more carebear and smelling the flowers type of players. Eve Online just isnt for those weaker type of players who cant take the heat of losing pixels. battles that actualy matter instead of battlegrounds where you resurect and lose nothing.
...
Just be happy we as gamers have a choice on what to play and that it offers diffrent playstyles for everyone.
On that first point, I don't think it has anything to do with weak or carebear, but rather a general oversight in the pursuit of freedom. I think a lot of people either overlook or dismiss the reality that the freedoms they ask for will be granted universally, and not everyone will do the same with it as they will.
These discussions remind me of Ultima ][: Revenge of the Enchantress. Now, that may seem bizarre, but I'll explain why.
On the back of the box, the description said
seize ships
hi-jack airplanes
travel throughout the solar system
clash with innocent bystanders
be pursued by KGB
get accosted in dark alleys
battle pirates on the open sea
be seduced in a bar
meet prominent people within the computer industry
explore deep dark deadly dungeons
burglarize merchants
slay vicious creatures
charge through impenetrable forces
...and it was true. That was pretty damn amazing, actually. I often wondered what the game world would be like if the NPCs had the same freedoms I did, and DAMN that would have been a crazy world. However, it did get me thinking about the significant difference between subjecting an entire world to my whims and fancies versus a world where everyone else has the same freedom. What if someone else was there when I wanted to rob the McDougall's of food? I could maybe make a deal with him, but what if he doesn't want to share? I could attack him, but what if he was too powerful? I could hire a thug NPC to attack him or call guards on him to run him off, right?
Is it a power play or antagonism? It's definitely a clash of freedoms.
The main thing to consider when looking for more open world x or more freedom to do y is that everyone else will have those same freedoms. Anything that restricts others will also restrict you. Anything that empowers you, empowers them.
On that second point, I agree. There is a great diversity in game worlds right now, and while no society - virtual or real - will ever be utopia, there's at least one (if not dozens) to suit each person's interests.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by tawess I generally don´t post per se... I mostly speak to people.
Somehow you lose all credibility when you list Entropia on your game list. Sorry that you believe that about EVE but from experience I got more drama in WoW in one month than I did in EVE for the first year so your milage may vary significantly.
Personally I prefer games where you can take actual revenge on someone that was a royal prick than not so EVE is far superior to WoW and most hand holdy theme parks for me.
Aint that cute... A grognard... But you are right.. i really should fix that list.... it is very out of date, especially as most of the games on it no longer operate.
That does not change the fact that i have played EvE on and off for close to 10 years... Neither does it change that fact that EvE is the least newcommer friendly game i have ever played.... Single or multiplayer. Oh i do very much tell people who have some MMO exp behind them and like a ruthless and hatefunk filled PvP game to check Eve out... But never someone who is new to MMO´s because they would be eaten alive and have their entire view of the genre skewed by the utter a**hats that you find in EvE... How do i know... Because i have faced them, run with them and even been one of them for a short time.
Why do i send them to WoW (or simliar games), because there you have systems in place to keep new players safe, or at least safer. In EvE they are feed to the wolves pretty much right out of the gate... (ok slight hyperbole i have not run the new player experience in five-ish years... But that is how it used to be and i am sure not much have changed)
I am not saying that EvE can not offer a good experience for the seasoned MMO player, it can and perhaps even will. But for a new player it will be either a long torture of costly mistakes or potentially selling their soul to the local space-pimp for "protection"
Originally posted by Dihoru Originally posted by tawess I generally don´t post per se... I mostly speak to people.
Somehow you lose all credibility when you list Entropia on your game list. Sorry that you believe that about EVE but from experience I got more drama in WoW in one month than I did in EVE for the first year so your milage may vary significantly.
Personally I prefer games where you can take actual revenge on someone that was a royal prick than not so EVE is far superior to WoW and most hand holdy theme parks for me.
Aint that cute... A grognard... But you are right.. i really should fix that list.... it is very out of date, especially as most of the games on it no longer operate.
That does not change the fact that i have played EvE on and off for close to 10 years... Neither does it change that fact that EvE is the least newcommer friendly game i have ever played.... Single or multiplayer. Oh i do very much tell people who have some MMO exp behind them and like a ruthless and hatefunk filled PvP game to check Eve out... But never someone who is new to MMO´s because they would be eaten alive and have their entire view of the genre skewed by the utter a**hats that you find in EvE... How do i know... Because i have faced them, run with them and even been one of them for a short time.
Why do i send them to WoW (or simliar games), because there you have systems in place to keep new players safe, or at least safer. In EvE they are feed to the wolves pretty much right out of the gate... (ok slight hyperbole i have not run the new player experience in five-ish years... But that is how it used to be and i am sure not much have changed)
I am not saying that EvE can not offer a good experience for the seasoned MMO player, it can and perhaps even will. But for a new player it will be either a long torture of costly mistakes or potentially selling their soul to the local space-pimp for "protection"
EVE-Online was my first MMO and the only thing I lost there was the ability to tolerate shitty guided experiences like most themeparks have.
Also starting off with a insult towards the one you are addressing flushes your point down the toilet.
EVE-Online was my first MMO and the only thing I lost there was the ability to tolerate shitty guided experiences like most themeparks have. Also starting off with a insult towards the one you are addressing flushes your point down the toilet.
Well good for you... But seeing as i have first hand evidence of the opposite, it does not really matter jack. Also that was not an insult, it was just me pointing out that you use a completley irrelevant measure stick as to the validity of my post... If i would have liked to insult you by now you would have been crying and looking for the report button. But i kind of like my account to be honest.. Thus i only called you a grumpy old soldier set in your ways.
My point is sadly for you a floater... it keeps coming back up no matter how much you hit that handle. EvE is crap for new players... It is a simple truth.
So... Apart from your manic hatred for anything not eve, do you have something new to come with.
Why do i send them to WoW (or simliar games), because there you have systems in place to keep new players safe, or at least safer. In EvE they are feed to the wolves pretty much right out of the gate... (ok slight hyperbole i have not run the new player experience in five-ish years... But that is how it used to be and i am sure not much have changed)
The new player experience (including tools/indicators to better understand wtf is going on) and the security of Hi Sec has been changed or updated yearly over those five years.
Safety Settings (this is enabled by default on new accounts)
CONCORD (NPC police in EVE, like UO's town guards) had their fleets boosted to better lock down and decimate criminals, the tutorial system has been overhauled, and a crapton of context menus and tooltips have been added.
A new player still has a learning curve, but the improved UI, tooltips and indicators make understanding EVE Online easier, shifting that learning more toward what opportunities they have ahead of them.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I can understand "you" (you who play EVE) do not want the carebears and the masses to play "your" game - but are you not interested in new players at all?
I do not know EVE very well, think I played 4-6 months a few years back, now wondering if I should try it out again - I can live with getting blown up a few times
But if the general current population of EVE don't really want new players - why would a player like me come back?
And if there actually is a somewhat larger portion of the player base who are interested in getting more / new players into the game, why are they not "helping" new players?
- in real open world (as in the real world) 99% of the world population are against scamming, griefing, stealing ect. so we formed this nice thing called police (and army) to enforce that they weak (aka new players) don't get muscled down by those who are stronger - IF EVE really is a true open world, why isn't this happening? - to me it can only mean that the main player base are happy as they are, and don't really want fresh blood in there game - is this the case?
And if there actually is a somewhat larger portion of the player base who are interested in getting more / new players into the game, why are they not "helping" new players?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
let me ask you one question: do you WANT the masses in your game?
Advise you wait until Star citizen and Elite dangerous come out, then you will get what you wish.
Personally I would love to play Eve as a Carebear because of the feeling of depth and maturity, but the risk of getting griefed randomly and to simply aggravate me as a person is just not appealing (being killed for profit where i make a mistake is fine) Not to mention being treated as a seconds class citizen in game.
Planning for an exploration into the heart of a 400 billion star system however sounds a lot more appealing than this.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
EVE-Online was my first MMO and the only thing I lost there was the ability to tolerate shitty guided experiences like most themeparks have. Also starting off with a insult towards the one you are addressing flushes your point down the toilet.
Well good for you... But seeing as i have first hand evidence of the opposite, it does not really matter jack. Also that was not an insult, it was just me pointing out that you use a completley irrelevant measure stick as to the validity of my post... If i would have liked to insult you by now you would have been crying and looking for the report button. But i kind of like my account to be honest.. Thus i only called you a grumpy old soldier set in your ways.
My point is sadly for you a floater... it keeps coming back up no matter how much you hit that handle. EvE is crap for new players... It is a simple truth.
So... Apart from your manic hatred for anything not worth the time for anyone capable of counting to 20, do you have something new to come with.
1) fixed your typo.
2) your first hand experience probably equates to you asking in local what mobs to grind for xp so no surprise there.
3) again considering something like entropia's noob journey without paying a dime is testicles upon sandpaper rough you are really amusing...Hell vanilla WoW was less friendly than vanilla EVE.
4) if the new player is a moron or plain loot whore sure, if he has a functional brainstem and a basic understanding that EVE is unlike any other game around then the experience will be slightly more fun than being led around like a dog on a leash like in most themeparks and it will be downright fun if he follows advice and joins a group like EVE Uni.
5) you also proved in your last post that you have not played EVE in the last year and a half minimum, probably more, which calls into doubt your assertion of being a 10 year vet of the game ( by your lack of knowledge so far I would have a hard time believing your older than 3 in that game if that ).
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Thane
loko, seriously, why bother with carebears.
let me ask you one question: do you WANT the masses in your game?
Advise you wait until Star citizen and Elite dangerous come out, then you will get what you wish.
Personally I would love to play Eve as a Carebear because of the feeling of depth and maturity, but the risk of getting griefed randomly and to simply aggravate me as a person is just not appealing (being killed for profit where i make a mistake is fine) Not to mention being treated as a seconds class citizen in game.
Planning for an exploration into the heart of a 400 billion star system however sounds a lot more appealing than this.
Except Star Citizen will be EVE on crack with half the depth and 1/20 the space and Elite....well if you are not in faction space you are fair game so yeah...you may want to revise your notions of what to expect in those two.
In a 400 billion star system game gate camps are history, and people are not going to dedicate themselves to griefing because of distances involved - so yep easier to avoid arses.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom In a 400 billion star system game gate camps are history, and people are not going to dedicate themselves to griefing because of distances involved - so yep easier to avoid arses.
It's a galaxy btw and if you think routes won't have chokepoints....ooh boy.
Comments
It has nothing or little to do with sections of the game and pvp but more so a multitude of reasons.
The game is technically ancient,it also has VERY little assets per zone ,i guess to be expected playing a space game.However the overall content continues to be uni-directional the game has imo not improved one bit from a PVE stand point and this is multi millions in profits later and many years,also imo that is a really slack effort , REALLY slack effort.
Of course you can cut them some slack out of the gate,they struggled badly,had no money but odd nobody was willing to cut Vanguard that same slack,i think it kind of proves this game has no competition and the ONLY reason it has survived.
Then you can add little things like a VERY questionable ISK design and at least 1 most likely more employees caught cheating.The other thing that always bothered me was WHY,why would they hire a small team to oversee the economy if it was SUPPOSE to be player driven,meaning let it happen,quit interfering.Then yet more,i was in noob chat and all i saw was ISK selling spam going off like a repeating gun,that with staff in the chat,proving they obviously don't care or insert other reason.
CCP to this day have proven nothing to me that they are anything but a second rate developer.Yes i know it is not their job to prove anything to me but i am sure many others carry my ideals.I prefer a develoepr i can TRUST with every aspect of the game from how it plays to cheating to ongoing development.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
that is not even remotely close to "the goal of the game". the goal of eve is whatever the player wants to achieve. for some, the goal is to scam, but to others it's to build a financial juggernaut, for others its to kill pirates, for others still it's to build and sell space ships. this also exists on the corp and alliance level.
it's actually exactly what makes eve WORTH that fee,
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what people kick, scream and cry for. No 'end level', open world, ability to do what they want (sandbox) and non-linear skill progression. All of these things that people purport to plead for on a daily basis creates these types of worlds, then you get those same people complaining about how it's 'too harsh' or 'everyone is griefing' which are almost always overgeneralizations and exaggerations.
They have also NEVER finished ANY of their Expansions. They are like a child with ADHD. They start with something then a few weeks later they are moving on to the next thing.
This just keeps continuing over and over.
What is that list supposed to show? Because half of that stuff they did and the other half was for a single expansion that the players overwhelmingly hated and caused a huge backlash so it wasn't completed.
Not even mentioning that half of that list doesn't have much to do with the actual thread subject.
That's exactly what i was referring to, malicious, vindictive behaviour, not predator like activities (The latter of which is core to Eve) It very much depends on intent.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Yes, malicious activity (not all the other stuff like vindictive or predatory behavior which you italicized as if quoting) and it does all come down to intent. CCP does moderate their game but only within the confines of what THEY believe is an actionable offense. The assertion that they've "lost control" is an oversimplification brought on by players misunderstanding of the rules of conduct.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
No game is completely on top of bannable behavior, it's an absurd standard. 'Farming for tears' isn't exclusive to EO and ganking people for kicks isn't necessarily griefing, in the sense of bannable behavior. Suicide ganking is also not griefing, it's part of the chaotic life of the New Eden universe.
This game isn't about rainbows and unicorns, a great deal of the content in this game is player generated and the good and bad that comes with it is inherent in that model.
griefing,scamming ... etc ...it is all game play or RP-ing in EVE , deal with it stop crying or don't play
Like in real life settings ! and wage war or betray your friends or spy or become a industry giant.
We have themeparks called WoW for the more carebear and smelling the flowers type of players.
Eve Online just isnt for those weaker type of players who cant take the heat of losing pixels.
battles that actualy matter instead of battlegrounds where you resurect and lose nothing.
Lucky we get Archeage also ! while not even as close to the hardness of Eve Online, it comes close enough to reap tears of the smaller fish who refuse to form unity or play smart.
I love both these mmo's !
And i hope more and more studio's look after these sandpark / sandbox mmo's as we can all see that Themeparks is just failure after failure.
To many WoW copy's flying around thinking they can cash in on the same type of players.
Just be happy we as gamers have a choice on what to play and that it offers diffrent playstyles for everyone.
On that first point, I don't think it has anything to do with weak or carebear, but rather a general oversight in the pursuit of freedom. I think a lot of people either overlook or dismiss the reality that the freedoms they ask for will be granted universally, and not everyone will do the same with it as they will.
These discussions remind me of Ultima ][: Revenge of the Enchantress. Now, that may seem bizarre, but I'll explain why.
On the back of the box, the description said
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Aint that cute... A grognard... But you are right.. i really should fix that list.... it is very out of date, especially as most of the games on it no longer operate.
That does not change the fact that i have played EvE on and off for close to 10 years... Neither does it change that fact that EvE is the least newcommer friendly game i have ever played.... Single or multiplayer. Oh i do very much tell people who have some MMO exp behind them and like a ruthless and hatefunk filled PvP game to check Eve out... But never someone who is new to MMO´s because they would be eaten alive and have their entire view of the genre skewed by the utter a**hats that you find in EvE... How do i know... Because i have faced them, run with them and even been one of them for a short time.
Why do i send them to WoW (or simliar games), because there you have systems in place to keep new players safe, or at least safer. In EvE they are feed to the wolves pretty much right out of the gate... (ok slight hyperbole i have not run the new player experience in five-ish years... But that is how it used to be and i am sure not much have changed)
I am not saying that EvE can not offer a good experience for the seasoned MMO player, it can and perhaps even will. But for a new player it will be either a long torture of costly mistakes or potentially selling their soul to the local space-pimp for "protection"
This have been a good conversation
Somehow you lose all credibility when you list Entropia on your game list. Sorry that you believe that about EVE but from experience I got more drama in WoW in one month than I did in EVE for the first year so your milage may vary significantly.
Personally I prefer games where you can take actual revenge on someone that was a royal prick than not so EVE is far superior to WoW and most hand holdy theme parks for me.
Aint that cute... A grognard... But you are right.. i really should fix that list.... it is very out of date, especially as most of the games on it no longer operate.
That does not change the fact that i have played EvE on and off for close to 10 years... Neither does it change that fact that EvE is the least newcommer friendly game i have ever played.... Single or multiplayer. Oh i do very much tell people who have some MMO exp behind them and like a ruthless and hatefunk filled PvP game to check Eve out... But never someone who is new to MMO´s because they would be eaten alive and have their entire view of the genre skewed by the utter a**hats that you find in EvE... How do i know... Because i have faced them, run with them and even been one of them for a short time.
Why do i send them to WoW (or simliar games), because there you have systems in place to keep new players safe, or at least safer. In EvE they are feed to the wolves pretty much right out of the gate... (ok slight hyperbole i have not run the new player experience in five-ish years... But that is how it used to be and i am sure not much have changed)
I am not saying that EvE can not offer a good experience for the seasoned MMO player, it can and perhaps even will. But for a new player it will be either a long torture of costly mistakes or potentially selling their soul to the local space-pimp for "protection"
EVE-Online was my first MMO and the only thing I lost there was the ability to tolerate shitty guided experiences like most themeparks have.Also starting off with a insult towards the one you are addressing flushes your point down the toilet.
Well good for you... But seeing as i have first hand evidence of the opposite, it does not really matter jack. Also that was not an insult, it was just me pointing out that you use a completley irrelevant measure stick as to the validity of my post... If i would have liked to insult you by now you would have been crying and looking for the report button. But i kind of like my account to be honest.. Thus i only called you a grumpy old soldier set in your ways.
My point is sadly for you a floater... it keeps coming back up no matter how much you hit that handle. EvE is crap for new players... It is a simple truth.
So... Apart from your manic hatred for anything not eve, do you have something new to come with.
This have been a good conversation
well, you know, there ARE actually people who seriously want an open world pvp game.
and eve, quite frankly, is the only real one out there.
but hey, i bet you guys prefer a game that lets you gank only low lvl players, while disabling pvp and rest as long as you want it, right?
and for the record, no one expects the carebears to play eve. keep playing wow or whatnot and claim you are a pvp player
bet your mommy believed ya
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
The new player experience (including tools/indicators to better understand wtf is going on) and the security of Hi Sec has been changed or updated yearly over those five years.
Some of the changes include
ISIS (Rubicon)
Better Nav Tools (Odyssey)
Crimewatch (Retribution)
Attacker/Effect Visuals (Inferno)
Safety Settings (this is enabled by default on new accounts)
CONCORD (NPC police in EVE, like UO's town guards) had their fleets boosted to better lock down and decimate criminals, the tutorial system has been overhauled, and a crapton of context menus and tooltips have been added.
A new player still has a learning curve, but the improved UI, tooltips and indicators make understanding EVE Online easier, shifting that learning more toward what opportunities they have ahead of them.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
loko, seriously, why bother with carebears.
let me ask you one question: do you WANT the masses in your game?
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I can understand "you" (you who play EVE) do not want the carebears and the masses to play "your" game - but are you not interested in new players at all?
I do not know EVE very well, think I played 4-6 months a few years back, now wondering if I should try it out again - I can live with getting blown up a few times
But if the general current population of EVE don't really want new players - why would a player like me come back?
And if there actually is a somewhat larger portion of the player base who are interested in getting more / new players into the game, why are they not "helping" new players?
- in real open world (as in the real world) 99% of the world population are against scamming, griefing, stealing ect. so we formed this nice thing called police (and army) to enforce that they weak (aka new players) don't get muscled down by those who are stronger - IF EVE really is a true open world, why isn't this happening? - to me it can only mean that the main player base are happy as they are, and don't really want fresh blood in there game - is this the case?
Best
Trivan
This have been a good conversation
They are.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Educational_organizations
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Advise you wait until Star citizen and Elite dangerous come out, then you will get what you wish.
Personally I would love to play Eve as a Carebear because of the feeling of depth and maturity, but the risk of getting griefed randomly and to simply aggravate me as a person is just not appealing (being killed for profit where i make a mistake is fine) Not to mention being treated as a seconds class citizen in game.
Planning for an exploration into the heart of a 400 billion star system however sounds a lot more appealing than this.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
1) fixed your typo.
2) your first hand experience probably equates to you asking in local what mobs to grind for xp so no surprise there.
3) again considering something like entropia's noob journey without paying a dime is testicles upon sandpaper rough you are really amusing...Hell vanilla WoW was less friendly than vanilla EVE.
4) if the new player is a moron or plain loot whore sure, if he has a functional brainstem and a basic understanding that EVE is unlike any other game around then the experience will be slightly more fun than being led around like a dog on a leash like in most themeparks and it will be downright fun if he follows advice and joins a group like EVE Uni.
5) you also proved in your last post that you have not played EVE in the last year and a half minimum, probably more, which calls into doubt your assertion of being a 10 year vet of the game ( by your lack of knowledge so far I would have a hard time believing your older than 3 in that game if that ).
Except Star Citizen will be EVE on crack with half the depth and 1/20 the space and Elite....well if you are not in faction space you are fair game so yeah...you may want to revise your notions of what to expect in those two.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
It's a galaxy btw and if you think routes won't have chokepoints....ooh boy.